Fiorina Strikes Back At Pro-Abortion Critics

[Nuk'EM Heels]

A Carly Fiorina super PAC has launched a powerful and graphic online ad refuting claims that she falsely described a scene in an undercover video where a live aborted fetus is kicking its legs.

The former HP CEO made the remarks at the Sept. 16 Republican primary debate last week as she dared President Obama and Hillary Clinton to watch the Planned Parenthood videos. “A fully-formed fetus, on the table, its heart beating, its legs kicking, while someone says ‘we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain,’” Fiorina said, adding that if Congress does not pass legislation defunding Planned Parenthood, "shame on us."

Some questioned the veracity of the Republican presidential candidate's remarks after the debate, claiming that the scene exactly as she described was not in any of the videos. However, the Fiorina camp circulated a video of a kicking fetus, which was included in the ad put out by CARLY for America.

 

[UNC71-00]

Carly is a strong candidate.

 

[strummingram]

Carly is a strong candidate.

Yeah, she's a great choice. She proposed major steps to make the U.S. military “the strongest military on the face of the planet." Doesn't matter that it already is by far, but, who cares? I guess she's planning on the USA going to war with itself. She's a Neo-con wet dream. I see the government growing abundantly in a Fiorina administration.

 

[UNC71-00]

By strong candidate I meant that she knows how to campaign and take advantage of the moment.

Now we will return you to your regularly scheduled Strum Threadjack, featuring inane ramblings and video of Wesley Clark.

 

[strummingram]

By strong candidate I meant that she knows how to campaign and take advantage of the moment.

Now we will return you to your regularly scheduled Strum Threadjack, featuring inane ramblings and video of Wesley Clark.

Inane ramblings... figures. It doesn't support your usual "they hate us because they're just crazy and we're just trying to help" inane ramblings, that's true.

Thanks for clarifying "strong". That explanation sounds like a sanitized version of "She's a great b*llshitter." In which case, she's definitely strong.

 

[gunslingerdick]

@strummingram

Serious question: why don't you run for for office? You seem to have all the answers and know what's best for humankind.

 

[strummingram]

@strummingram

Serious question: why don't you run for for office? You seem to have all the answers and know what's best for humankind.

Well, frankly, the corrections and improvements of this world (or, our culture) are never actually solved from politics. They never have been. It's a shame that people are led to believe that they are, or that government and politics are what "keep us organized." Politics and government are slow and usually behind the times and behind the attitudes of the general population. And, even slower to catch up. By the time it does, the attitudes are changing yet again. They also, as institutions, absolutely require that there be glaring problems, divisions, and basically a need for them to exist. So, it's self-defeating. Looking for improvement through government and politics is really chasing the dragon. As Dean Smith is credited for saying (even though it didn't originate with him) "You do what's right because it's the right thing to do." I know you never display much spiritual/religious reference, but you are a soul and we are connected. It's a spiritual voice within you (and me, and us) that tells you, without a doubt, what is best. That is God, and that is where the path of our evolution is walked.

I don't know what's best for humankind. I know what seems best for it through my filter, through my understanding and my experience. I'm only responsible for making things seem "best" for me. I'm the only one that I can change. My actions can affect others, but only they can change themselves. And, it's very likely, since we are all connected, that we all want the same things. We just seem to prefer believing that we follow different leaders, or authorities that we deem smarter than we are. No one is smarter than another. No one is better than another. No one is worse than another.

My philosophy and attitudes would never make it in politics. And, thank God for that! Politics and government is a racket that would be much better as a memory. "Remember when they used to have politicians? Man, that was so silly!" That's another reason why I'm not fazed in the slightest about "winning" elections. Elections are what amounts to an illusion to begin with. People resorting to lying, emphasizing others' flaws, and manipulating attitudes and ideas in order to gain favor to "rule" over everyone? And, then everyone participating under the guise that it's somehow going to improve our situation as a society? It would be funny if it weren't actually happening.

(for the record: I didn't hijack this thread. 71-00 did that)

 

[heelmanwilm]

i liked her until in the debate she used her sons death from alcohol and presc drugs as support to keep pot illegal. How fking stupid is that?

 

[strummingram]

i liked her until in the debate she used her sons death from alcohol and presc drugs as support to keep pot illegal. How fking stupid is that?

That was just her showing her strength. She's all for keeping the things that killed her son legal... but, not Marijuana. I'm all for keeping them legal, too. I'd legalize everything. You'd get rid of drug dealers and drug crime quickly. But, the people that benefit from that illegal trade have NO intention of allowing it. You think Al Capone wanted to repeal Prohibition? Prohibiting substances "legally" literally creates the most lucrative criminal endeavors in human history. And, it pays-off in so many ways! That is another major reason for the disrupted family dynamic in this country.

Decriminalization, at the very least, should occur asap.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Well, frankly, the corrections and improvements of this world (or, our culture) are never actually solved from politics. They never have been. It's a shame that people are led to believe that they are, or that government and politics are what "keep us organized." Politics and government are slow and usually behind the times and behind the attitudes of the general population. And, even slower to catch up. By the time it does, the attitudes are changing yet again. They also, as institutions, absolutely require that there be glaring problems, divisions, and basically a need for them to exist. So, it's self-defeating. Looking for improvement through government and politics is really chasing the dragon. As Dean Smith is credited for saying (even though it didn't originate with him) "You do what's right because it's the right thing to do." I know you never display much spiritual/religious reference, but you are a soul and we are connected. It's a spiritual voice within you (and me, and us) that tells you, without a doubt, what is best. That is God, and that is where the path of our evolution is walked.

I don't know what's best for humankind. I know what seems best for it through my filter, through my understanding and my experience. I'm only responsible for making things seem "best" for me. I'm the only one that I can change. My actions can affect others, but only they can change themselves. And, it's very likely, since we are all connected, that we all want the same things. We just seem to prefer believing that we follow different leaders, or authorities that we deem smarter than we are. No one is smarter than another. No one is better than another. No one is worse than another.

My philosophy and attitudes would never make it in politics. And, thank God for that! Politics and government is a racket that would be much better as a memory. "Remember when they used to have politicians? Man, that was so silly!" That's another reason why I'm not fazed in the slightest about "winning" elections. Elections are what amounts to an illusion to begin with. People resorting to lying, emphasizing others' flaws, and manipulating attitudes and ideas in order to gain favor to "rule" over everyone? And, then everyone participating under the guise that it's somehow going to improve our situation as a society? It would be funny if it weren't actually happening.

(for the record: I didn't hijack this thread. 71-00 did that)

Ummm, ok. I'm not real sure where to even start with that long winded bluster.

But ok, so politics isn't for you. But surely, you want to do something to help improve all these issues you pontificate about frequently. What, exactly, besides throwing around scorn at posters here for thinking and believing what they want, are you doing to improve the world?

 

[gunslingerdick]

i liked her until in the debate she used her sons death from alcohol and presc drugs as support to keep pot illegal. How fking stupid is that?

I didn't like that either. Not from a "it didn't make sense" angle but more from a "how awful to leverage your child's death into some political point" angle.

 

[UNC71-00]

I didn't like that either. Not from a "it didn't make sense" angle but more from a "how awful to leverage your child's death into some political point" angle.

That didn't bother me because I think she actually believes what she says about drugs and has a personal experience to support her position.

That being said, I disagree with her position. But I'm gonna take a page out of Ol' Strummy's book and tell you it doesn't matter anyways because MJ will never be legal as the politicians have been bought by big business prescription drug and alcohol companies who want to keep their monopolies on getting hammered.

And actually, that was a joke too. It's only a matter of time before it is legal across the board.

 

[UNC71-00]

(for the record: I didn't hijack this thread. 71-00 did that)

That is completely absurd. You are the one who brought up the military and the horrors of American imperialism. My comment was that Carly is a strong candidate in response to Nuk's OP about how Carly shut up the PP supporters.

You can't help yourself on any political thread. It always goes back to war mongering and all politicians being the same to you. And I get it- you too have a strong personal experience that formed your thoughts. But that being said, every f'ing thread not about Cool or football doesn't have to be threadjacked by you espousing the evils of all government, politicians and the military.

And before you go all double X chromosome on me and come back with "put me on ignore", recognize that I enjoy a good deal of what you post. But not the constant beating of the "all politicians suck, Americans are evil imperialists" drum. So when you do that, I'm gonna respond with a jab instead of just rolling my eyes like the other 99% who read it.

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

I think the Fiorina campaign add featuring this video of a baby kicking in a lab pan should have a pretty profound impact on anyone who would honestly contemplate the morality of the pro-abortion position. Those who would try to change the subject probably are just fine with abortion as it is and PP's unnecessary harvesting of unborn babies as part of the abortion industry.

I agree. Fiorina is a very strong candidate, and she scares the crap out of the left.

 

[strummingram]

Ummm, ok. I'm not real sure where to even start with that long winded bluster.

But ok, so politics isn't for you. But surely, you want to do something to help improve all these issues you pontificate about frequently. What, exactly, besides throwing around scorn at posters here for thinking and believing what they want, are you doing to improve the world?

Improving myself.

 

[strummingram]

That is completely absurd. You are the one who brought up the military and the horrors of American imperialism. My comment was that Carly is a strong candidate in response to Nuk's OP about how Carly shut up the PP supporters.

You can't help yourself on any political thread. It always goes back to war mongering and all politicians being the same to you. And I get it- you too have a strong personal experience that formed your thoughts. But that being said, every f'ing thread not about Cool or football doesn't have to be threadjacked by you espousing the evils of all government, politicians and the military.

And before you go all double X chromosome on me and come back with "put me on ignore", recognize that I enjoy a good deal of what you post. But not the constant beating of the "all politicians suck, Americans are evil imperialists" drum. So when you do that, I'm gonna respond with a jab instead of just rolling my eyes like the other 99% who read it.

Forgive me.

By the way, "Americans" are not evil imperialists. Their leaders usually are, however. Sorry for throwing too much truth around. I'll make sure to limit it to only when it's relevant. Keep up the good work.

 

[UNC71-00]

Forgive me.

By the way, "Americans" are not evil imperialists. Their leaders usually are, however. Sorry for throwing too much truth around. I'll make sure to limit it to only when it's relevant. Keep up the good work.

Edit: nevermind- it's not worth it

 

[strummingram]

Carly Fiorina Heads Charity That Supports Abortion Group

In 2013, [URL='http://good360.org/']Good360, a charity chaired by Carly Fiorina, gave $18,022 in goods to The Abortion Access Network of Arizona.[/URL]http://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/0...a-heads-charity-that-supports-abortion-group/

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

I would add that any GOPer in the race would wipe the floor with HRC or Biden or Saunders.

 

[UNC71-00]

Carly Fiorina Heads Charity That Supports Abortion Group

In 2013, Good360, a charity chaired by Carly Fiorina, gave $18,022 in goods to The Abortion Access Network of Arizona.

One, it's pretty funny that the article you linked starts out claiming that the video which is linked in the op doesn't exist. In other words, your source starts out being wrong.

Second, if you expect the chairperson of any charitable organization having $900 million in annual dispersements to be aware of one donation of $18,000, then I don't know what to tell you.

 

[strummingram]

One, it's pretty funny that the article you linked starts out claiming that the video which is linked in the op doesn't exist. In other words, your source starts out being wrong.

Second, if you expect the chairperson of any charitable organization having $900 million in annual dispersements to be aware of one donation of $18,000, then I don't know what to tell you.

Glad I can made you laugh. It reveals how SHE is wrong! Here's more information: linkhttp://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/0...ist-so-a-super-pac-supporting-her-created-it/

It doesn't stop Fiorina from insisting that it does exist and that it's graphic and shows all of these things that are not happening, if the video doesn't exist. A charity raking in 900 million bucks is one helluva charity. Hey, I don't care if they give 20 grand to an abortion operation either. But, sure as hell someone knew it was going there. If you're the head honcho, you're accountable. As the article states: "This isn’t some off-track charity using a clever name to circumvent a vetting process by a pro-life charity, this is a nationally renowned abortion provider using a name with “abortion” right in the title. Was Fiorina not in the loop? Was she not aware that there were donations from the charity she was chair of to abortion providers?"

 

[UNC71-00]

Glad I can made you laugh. It reveals how SHE is wrong! Here's more information: linkhttp://www.addictinginfo.org/2015/0...ist-so-a-super-pac-supporting-her-created-it/

It doesn't stop Fiorina from insisting that it does exist and that it's graphic and shows all of these things that are not happening, if the video doesn't exist. A charity raking in 900 million bucks is one helluva charity. Hey, I don't care if they give 20 grand to an abortion operation either. But, sure as hell someone knew it was going there. If you're the head honcho, you're accountable. As the article states: "This isn’t some off-track charity using a clever name to circumvent a vetting process by a pro-life charity, this is a nationally renowned abortion provider using a name with “abortion” right in the title. Was Fiorina not in the loop? Was she not aware that there were donations from the charity she was chair of to abortion providers?"

18k out of 900 million. I'm giving Carly the benefit of the doubt, just like I don't think Obama had any idea that the EPA spent $800 on a pencil holder. Only a general in the tin foil hat brigade would think otherwise. Or someone trying to make a political point. Either way, someone who's opinion is not relevant to me.

And the video does exist. That was the point of this thread, before you took yet another one over.

 

[strummingram]

18k out of 900 million. I'm giving Carly the benefit of the doubt, just like I don't think Obama had any idea that the EPA spent $800 on a pencil holder. Only a general in the tin foil hat brigade would think otherwise. Or someone trying to make a political point. Either way, someone who's opinion is not relevant to me.

And the video does exist. That was the point of this thread, before you took yet another one over.

Yeah, the super pac that supports her CREATED IT after she got called-out for it not existing!

She then passionately called for the people to stand with her against the unspeakable horror she described:


“This is about the character of our nation, and if we won’t stand up and force president Obama to veto this bill , shame on us!”


The problem is, this boost was based on a lie, as this video simply does not exist. In the entire 12 hours of heavily edited footage released by the “Center for Medical Progress,” an anti-abortion group, there is no such video, what-so-ever.


Unfortunately for Fiorina, even Fox News anchor Chris Wallace called her out:


“Do you acknowledge what every fact checker has found…that it was only described on the video…there is no actual footage that you just mentioned?”


Frantic not to lose the new momentum after being called out by the very network catering to her potential voters — the PAC supporting her campaign created it.

Give them the benefit of the doubt all you want. They appreciate it, look forward to it, and count on it.

 

[UNC71-00]

Yeah, the super pac that supports her CREATED IT after she got called-out for it not existing!

She then passionately called for the people to stand with her against the unspeakable horror she described:


“This is about the character of our nation, and if we won’t stand up and force president Obama to veto this bill , shame on us!”


The problem is, this boost was based on a lie, as this video simply does not exist. In the entire 12 hours of heavily edited footage released by the “Center for Medical Progress,” an anti-abortion group, there is no such video, what-so-ever.


Unfortunately for Fiorina, even Fox News anchor Chris Wallace called her out:


“Do you acknowledge what every fact checker has found…that it was only described on the video…there is no actual footage that you just mentioned?”


Frantic not to lose the new momentum after being called out by the very network catering to her potential voters — the PAC supporting her campaign created it.

Give them the benefit of the doubt all you want. They appreciate it, look forward to it, and count on it.

Lol. How does one create a fake abortion video? Or were Peter Jackson and George Lucas involved?

Read your own link, General Tin Foil? The video in question does exist- it was just taken without parental consent. Here's the line from your own source:

as well as footage of a stillborn baby (which The Nation noted was used without permission of the parent). The footage depicted in the one minute long ad is most certainly not, however, from Planned Parenthood.

 

[strummingram]

Lol. How does one create a fake abortion video? Or were Peter Jackson and George Lucas involved?

Read your own link, General Tin Foil? The video in question does exist- it was just taken without parental consent. Here's the line from your own source:

as well as footage of a stillborn baby (which The Nation noted was used without permission of the parent). The footage depicted in the one minute long ad is most certainly not, however, from Planned Parenthood.

I have read it. Apparently you're not reading it, or not comprehending it. Clever name-calling though.

 

[UNC71-00]

I have read it. Apparently you're not reading it, or not comprehending it. Clever name-calling though.

Thanks- it wasn't my best work, but I am really paying attention to other things this afternoon.

What is it that I am not comprehending?

 

[strummingram]

Thanks- it wasn't my best work, but I am really paying attention to other things this afternoon.

What is it that I am not comprehending?

I'm not sure if I can point it out any more directly. I can't literally read it to you, and walk you through it. I'm frankly surprised to see you trying to cover for her considering what the link provides. You surprised me. If you think she's on-the-level... fine. She's clearly not, but, be my guest! Chris Wallace even calls-her-out as fabricating her comments.

“:00 < Intro montage of media footage noting that the video Fiorina described at the debate does not exist :15 < image from debate :16 < Fiorina speaking at debate :22 < image from discredited Grantham Collection (which is likely not even a fetus, and is not at Planned Parenthood) with audio stripped and replaced with Fiorina voiceover from the debate :30 < Fiorina speaking at the debate :34 < same image from discredited Grantham Collection with audio stripped and replaced with voiceover from audio conversation with Novogenix Lab, taken from an unrelated Center for Medical Progress video :37 < image of a stillborn (used without that family’s permission), taken from an unrelated Center for Medical Progress video with audio stripped and replaced with voiceover from a Planned Parenthood staff member, taken from another unrelated Center for Medical Progress video :41 < former Stem Express worker Holly O’Donnell being interviewed, taken from a Center for Medical Progress video :45 < Fiorina speaking at debate :53 < image from debate Close: montage of marketing content”

"Despite the fact that the campaign ad is a produced fictional horror movie, completely pieced together to create something that does not exist, it seems unlikely that those who refuse to acknowledge facts about Planned Parenthood will be swayed either way — and it will be Fiorina’s own gender who suffers for it."

I'm not sure where you're getting lost. The link goes into great detail regarding every aspect of the deception. I guess I'll chalk-it-up to "people see and hear what they want." You asked "how do you fake an abortion video?" What abortion video??? It's not even an abortion video! What her Super PAC slapped together is a joke! Some images of a still-born and some scary voice-over! She's no better than a tel-evangelist to me.

 

[UNC71-00]

The irony of you thinking this is a simple link to follow is rich. But simultaneously entertaining. So thanks for that.

Let me get this straight though:

A PAC made an ad with things spliced together. One of the splices shows video of a fetus that some pro-abortion group says is not a fetus. Another splice shows a stillborn (which may or may not have been aborted) having organs harvested.

Is that about right? What exactly do you take issue with, other than the fact that Carly's last name isn't Paul?

 

[Heels in Space]

Here's what Fiorina said: "As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, it’s heart beating, it’s legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

It seems pretty clear now that the image she describes was not from Planned Parenthood, was likely not from an abortion at all, and had no one saying anything about keeping it alive or harvesting its brain. So how is what she said even remotely true?

 

[Nuk'EM Heels]

The fact that abortionists are insisting the video is a hoax is ample evidence there must be something to it, and they find the images harmful to the abortionist cause. Abortionists are hell-bent on defending Planned Parenthood to the last baby is aborted, pretty simple motivation and strategy.

 

[strummingram]

The irony of you thinking this is a simple link to follow is rich. But simultaneously entertaining. So thanks for that.

Let me get this straight though:

A PAC made an ad with things spliced together. One of the splices shows video of a fetus that some pro-abortion group says is not a fetus. Another splice shows a stillborn (which may or may not have been aborted) having organs harvested.

Is that about right? What exactly do you take issue with, other than the fact that Carly's last name isn't Paul?

I had no idea the link was such a challenge. It's pretty straight-forward. It reveals she was lying. Then her PAC decided to double-down on it and send out a follow-up lie and package it as a campaign ad! She's strong alright.

What does Paul have to do with Fiorina, and her campaign, being a liar(s), or, at least, heavily embellishing! You're losing that way.

 

[strummingram]

The fact that abortionists are insisting the video is a hoax is ample evidence there must be something to it, and they find the images harmful to the abortionist cause. Abortionists are hell-bent on defending Planned Parenthood to the last baby is aborted, pretty simple motivation and strategy.

I'm not an abortionist, but I know it's a hoax.

 

[UNC71-00]

I had no idea the link was such a challenge. It's pretty straight-forward. It reveals she was lying. Then her PAC decided to double-down on it and send out a follow-up lie and package it as a campaign ad! She's strong alright.

What does Paul have to do with Fiorina, and her campaign, being a liar(s), or, at least, heavily embellishing! You're losing that way.

So because she cited Planned Parenthood when she should have cited some other group, that makes her a liar? Do I understand you correctly?

 

[UNC71-00]

Here's what Fiorina said: "As regards Planned Parenthood, anyone who has watched this videotape, I dare Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama to watch these tapes. Watch a fully formed fetus on the table, it’s heart beating, it’s legs kicking while someone says we have to keep it alive to harvest its brain."

It seems pretty clear now that the image she describes was not from Planned Parenthood, was likely not from an abortion at all, and had no one saying anything about keeping it alive or harvesting its brain. So how is what she said even remotely true?

1) Who cares if the images were from PP or some other pro fetus harvesting organization? It's all ball bearings these days. Her point remains valid.
2) Why is it likely not from an abortion? According to who?
3) PP said very similar things in the other videos- why is this even an issue? PP has been caught on tape saying pretty much this in verbatim.

I really can't even figure out what the problem is here? Are you guys denying that Planned Parenthood harvest organs from aborted fetuses? Or that the PP docs and admins have been shown, on tape, to discuss the harvesting in the most flippant way imaginable?

 

[UNC71-00]

I'm not an abortionist, but I know it's a hoax.

What is a hoax? Are you disputing all those videos we got from the guys filming the PP docs/admins discussing how to take an aborted fetus's brain without crushing it so as to maintain viability for sale?

Or are you just disputing a PAC ad?

 

[strummingram]

So because she cited Planned Parenthood when she should have cited some other group, that makes her a liar? Do I understand you correctly?

Ummm, yeah! That makes her statements untrue. And, if she'll go to these lengths to fabricate and embellish, and place the blame on the wrong people... WHY would you ever trust them to be a president??? And, then her PAC put a deceptive video out to defend her incorrect statements and use it to pander to people who oppose abortion or pro-choice ideology. She's already connected with donating to a abortion operation. Sorry that it was only 20 grand. For all I know, or you know, she wrote the check herself!

One thing's for sure, it's no surprise how these people get elected. I suppose that's why Americans are actually okay with things circling-the-drain... they asked for it, and knew full well they were electing someone that couldn't be trusted.

As I said earlier, if you trust her... great! I'm someone who actually wants the legal time for abortions to be scaled-back to no more than 8 weeks, unless a mother's life is in danger. It's a very complex issue. Making things up, and slapping together what amounts to a lie to gain favor is not a good way to improve it.

 

[strummingram]

What is a hoax? Are you disputing all those videos we got from the guys filming the PP docs/admins discussing how to take an aborted fetus's brain without crushing it so as to maintain viability for sale?

Or are you just disputing a PAC ad?

The PAC ad is a crock. Her affiliation and advocacy of it guarantees that I would never vote for her or support her. Well, that and other issues that make her even more dangerous. But, I promised not to go off-topic.

 

[UNC71-00]

The PAC ad is a crock. Her affiliation and advocacy of it guarantees that I would never vote for her or support her. Well, that and other issues that make her even more dangerous. But, I promised not to go off-topic.

Bwhahahaha

Like you would ever vote for anyone with an R or D next to his/her name for any reason. That would be deadly to your identity.

 

[UNC71-00]

Ummm, yeah! That makes her statements untrue. And, if she'll go to these lengths to fabricate and embellish, and place the blame on the wrong people... WHY would you ever trust them to be a president??? And, then her PAC put a deceptive video out to defend her incorrect statements and use it to pander to people who oppose abortion or pro-choice ideology. She's already connected with donating to a abortion operation. Sorry that it was only 20 grand. For all I know, or you know, she wrote the check herself!

One thing's for sure, it's no surprise how these people get elected. I suppose that's why Americans are actually okay with things circling-the-drain... they asked for it, and knew full well they were electing someone that couldn't be trusted.

As I said earlier, if you trust her... great! I'm someone who actually wants the legal time for abortions to be scaled-back to no more than 8 weeks, unless a mother's life is in danger. It's a very complex issue. Making things up, and slapping together what amounts to a lie to gain favor is not a good way to improve it.

Only someone completely ignorant of any type of corporate environment thinks that the chairman of a 900 million organization is cognizant of an 18 thousand dollar grant.

And if you think confusing the source of a video in a debate makes someone a liar, well, I'm just glad the rest of us don't have to meet your high standards.

 

[strummingram]

Only someone completely ignorant of any type of corporate environment thinks that the chairman of a 900 million organization is cognizant of an 18 thousand dollar grant.

Great.
She's still been proven to be a liar... that you're defending. Congratulations.