Gotta hit the portal hard for bigs this offseason

[gauchoheel]

To be a starter for a good team, you need to be consistent over anything else. Withers hasn't shown the capability to be consistent in his 4 years in college. I don't know what corner there is to turn from him. His best chance is to become a killer 3PT shooter. If he has that with his size, it will be hard not to start him. Unfortunately, he's been pretty inconsistent as a shooter in 4 years. I don't know what corner he has left to turn.

I don't know enough about High. I think we're all guessing with him. UNC has a history of developing big guys. But for all I know, he can be Desmond Hubert. We have no idea what he's going to be. I don't know his ceiling.

Oknonkwo's an undersized big who can't score. So he better be an elite rebounder or defender if he's going to play at all. It leads me to think UNC has to upgrade from him.

I think Jalen Washington is best served with a pick-and-roll-centric PG and offense. That's not really what UNC does and that's not what Cadeau or RJ are as ball handlers. I don't think he's physically capable of doing what UNC asks of its bigs consistently. I also don't think he can play man-to-man defense in today's game. Just an easy guy to target on ball screens and unless he's playing soft drop coverage, there's very little he can provide. Would be better in a zone defense scheme IMO. I don't think he's a great fit for UNC. Just being honest.

And I was high on Washington because he's a big who can shoot. But he looks limited to me. I won't go as far as comparing him to Justin McKoy. But there's a path for him to be productive. I don't think that's at the highest level of college basketball.

Lots of great thoughts here. Regarding pick-and-roll-centric PG and offense, that could be more the case next year? Cadeau and Jackson's penetration abilities seem to be amplified with pick-and-roll.

I'd still don't see Jalen as a good roll man though; I feel like he's best suited as a pure spacer offensively a la Brook Lopez, due to his lack of mobility. And then there's the issues with his defense.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Lots of great thoughts here. Regarding pick-and-roll-centric PG and offense, that could be more the case next year? Cadeau and Jackson's penetration abilities seem to be amplified with pick-and-roll.

I'd still don't see Jalen as a good roll man though; I feel like he's best suited as a pure spacer offensively a la Brook Lopez, due to his lack of mobility. And then there's the issues with his defense.

Good correction. I meant pick-and-pop for Jalen Washington.

It's a ridiculous comparison because Jalen doesn't have an all-star NBA future, but his ideal game is like Portland's LaMarcus Aldridge. A great pick-and-pop 4-5 with an elite ball screen guard in Damian Lillard. But that took that style of PG to get the most out of Aldridge.

Cadeau (right now) isn't a good enough shooter for that kind of offense. Works better with a Coby White or Marcus Paige type of guard.

We also absolutely need some rim protection. And while Jalen has the length to do that, he probably lacks a second explosive jump that many good rim protectors have. Idk, I think he's just a water and oil fit for this team. But who knows? College teams turn over so much that maybe he'll fit better if he's here next season.

 

[DaveChapelle]

If Kansas can get Hunter Dickinson, I'm sure UNC can appeal to another high-profile big somewhere.

What if Dickinson graduates this year (his 4th year in college) and then enters the portal as a grad transfer?

 

[dtodd4475]

I do appreciate that you share why you say what you do about the individual players, I may not agree but at least you give why you think what you do.

I have shared many times, looking at next season, we do need to get a quality big man in the portal, we drastically need a rim protector, closest we have now is Bacot and really, he isn't that guy that strikes fear for any shot taken around the paint. Bacot has those wide shoulders, is physically very strong, he is a 5th year guy and he is developed. Jalen is considered a soph but truth is last season (he got limited play and was near mid season before he was even able to play) but the kid spent so much time on the shelf he is way behind others in his same class. Jalen's off season was the first time the kid has had to work on his body and his game in what 3yrs or more? You know, those high school summers of playing shoe ball circuits developing his game, he didn't have that. High has a nice motor but he has to get some weight on his frame before what he really has can be seen. Konkwo is 5 fouls in a very deep bench. Brown will be with us next season but I think it is going to take him a couple years in college to be ready for this level.

So yes, we do need to hit the portal for a big man for next season, we need a shot blocking rim protector that can erase many of the back court mistakes. Jalen with another off season in the weight room could be some of that.

I agree that Jalen will develop strength physically, but he has morphed into a plodded with a very good stroke. I have seen the kid since 8th grade, you were adamant that it was a "botched" surgery and he would be ready in a year 2 years ago. I disagreed, thought the knee did not respond, knees are tricky, he is a totally different physically since. Not a botched fixable thing.

It is not his first season recovering he has rehabbed his ass off, it is another year trying to reestablish his game with his new physical makeup. A total metamorphosis from what he was pre knee.

He can be really good, but a project, rebuilding his game. I want him back, but it looks to be a pure stretch 5 now, who you try to hide on dee to just rim protect with length. He is a neon light target to attack away from the basket. I know you think he should be starting, I am rooting hard for the kid, but he is not ready for big minutes, and I think Hubert knows this.

They will have a candid conversation at the end of this year. I hope he stays, but he will have a choice to make, Hubert will be honest. They will recruit the portal hard at thst position.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I don't see Jalen as a starter on this team and I would have to see a lot in the future if he's starting on any UNC team that has serious goals.

This number isn't everything, but his on/off-court differential has been pretty bad in ACC play this year (-7.6).

You're talking borderline unplayable with that number. I don't have complete lineup data, so maybe part of that is because he shares minutes with Wojcik (-34.6). But throughout the ACC season, UNC's top 7 players all have positive differentials.

To me, he doesn't pass the eye test. And apart from his traditional statistics, which are very efficient... The more granular data says his impact isn't a positive one when he plays. You choose which stats are meaningful to you.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree that Jalen will develop strength physically, but he has morphed into a plodded with a very good stroke. I have seen the kid since 8th grade, you were adamant that it was a "botched" surgery and he would be ready in a year 2 years ago. I disagreed, thought the knee did not respond, knees are tricky, he is a totally different physically since. Not a botched fixable thing.

It is not his first season recovering he has rehabbed his ass off, it is another year trying to reestablish his game with his new physical makeup. A total metamorphosis from what he was pre knee.

He can be really good, but a project, rebuilding his game. I want him back, but it looks to be a pure stretch 5 now, who you try to hide on dee to just rim protect with length. He is a neon light target to attack away from the basket. I know you think he should be starting, I am rooting hard for the kid, but he is not ready for big minutes, and I think Hubert knows this.

They will have a candid conversation at the end of this year. I hope he stays, but he will have a choice to make, Hubert will be honest. They will recruit the portal hard at thst position.

Now THAT is how you respond to someone that has a different opinion !!! Kudos to you sir!

I look at this a bit differently in his transition to college has been in 2 parts, first was getting to the point that medically he could play and not do more damage and second phase (which he IMO is still in) going thru all the learning process that every freshman has to with the realization that this kid was on the shelf with injury as others in his class passed him. I see a guy that is learning and in some aspects does not understand how to do what is asked of him. He is getting caught in between a lot, example tries to play drop but can see a open guy that he has to get out to tag and getting driven on and having to defend a driver that has got down hill on him. But I as well see a weapon that I feel can really help us that we are not using, specifically that jump shot. Off our bench right now I see 2 extremely important weapons that strike me as dependable, Seth's defense and Jalen's jump shot.

Now I have shared many times that yes, I want us to work the portal heavy for a starting level rim protector big man because bacot is the ONLY guy we have with the length, bulk, and strength to hold position down low and we will not have Bacot next season. So yes, that is a real need area and it will have to be addressed via the portal. But that does not mean lose Jalen in the process and should not mean that.

A lot of this is that I do not trust small ball as a primary offensive approach, I love it as a curve ball to go to in a game but I trust length to control the boards, to alter shots, and to draw opposing bigs in to foul trouble. I want our primary look to be as big as we can be while still being able to jump shoot. I get just that with Ingram at the 3 and Jalen at the 4.

 

[UNC-75]

What if Dickinson graduates this year (his 4th year in college) and then enters the portal as a grad transfer?

He would be throwing away some meaningful cash. 💰

 

[tarwhiz]

I thought earlier in the season, that we has our starting 5 for next season. Jalen was putting up extremely good per 40 numbers and showed a lot of offensive versatility. His defense early vs weaker competition had my hoping he was going to turn the corner. As the competition has gotten better the staffs trust in Jalen has wavered.
I still hope he becomes close to what I thought he could be. If I am coaching at this level, I need to KNOW what I am going to get from my starters going into next season.
Jalen has not given me that comfort level so I think Carolina has to go after the absolute BEST Portal big available.
Let's be honest, there is going to be a log jam of sorts on the front line next season if all return. Hubert job is to construct the lineup so at least 2-3 of those logs can easily flow downstream and not clog up the entire roster.
I want Ingram, High and Washington back, but we must have a STUD to pair with those 3.
Withers and Okonkwo are really out of options and I don't think Hubert will allow their presence to deter him from adding a difference maker.
Brown takes over Highs role in year one, I don't expect a big impact from him as a Frosh.

 

[DSouthr]

I don't see Jalen as a starter on this team and I would have to see a lot in the future if he's starting on any UNC team that has serious goals.

This number isn't everything, but his on/off-court differential has been pretty bad in ACC play this year (-7.6).

You're talking borderline unplayable with that number. I don't have complete lineup data, so maybe part of that is because he shares minutes with Wojcik (-34.6). But throughout the ACC season, UNC's top 7 players all have positive differentials.

To me, he doesn't pass the eye test. And apart from his traditional statistics, which are very efficient... The more granular data says his impact isn't a positive one when he plays. You choose which stats are meaningful to you.

LOL, so we play Paxon how many minutes last game when he has such an awful efficiency rating? You say that the guy with the highest shooting % of any of our regulars has a "unplayable" differential while also sharing he plays a lot with a guy that has a rating nearly 5 times worse? Well do ya think maybe that -34.6 guy may be negatively effecting not just Jalen but anyone else on the courts rating in a negative way? LOL

This actually surprises me, getting push back on my wanting a guy that is averaging only 8mins a game but has the highest field goal % of all our regulars needs more minutes and more shots? I feel like I am spending to much time defending Jalen, that is not what I prefer to talk about but I keep reading comments about him that I just do not agree with and I am sure others say the same about my comments. But I did not like some of the over the top nasty comments I read on the last game thread about Jalen, you just do not treat our players that way. I get some of it came from emotion of a contested game, I get emotional during games as well as well as afterwards. That is exactly why I do not but for very rare occasions comment during or directly after a game, you see my thoughts on a game the next day when I have had time to process all of what I watched and have my emotions more in check.

 

[Archer2]

^^^^^^
Preach on buddy.

 

[DSouthr]

I thought earlier in the season, that we has our starting 5 for next season. Jalen was putting up extremely good per 40 numbers and showed a lot of offensive versatility. His defense early vs weaker competition had my hoping he was going to turn the corner. As the competition has gotten better the staffs trust in Jalen has wavered.
I still hope he becomes close to what I thought he could be. If I am coaching at this level, I need to KNOW what I am going to get from my starters going into next season.
Jalen has not given me that comfort level so I think Carolina has to go after the absolute BEST Portal big available.
Let's be honest, there is going to be a log jam of sorts on the front line next season if all return. Hubert job is to construct the lineup so at least 2-3 of those logs can easily flow downstream and not clog up the entire roster.
I want Ingram, High and Washington back, but we must have a STUD to pair with those 3.
Withers and Okonkwo are really out of options and I don't think Hubert will allow their presence to deter him from adding a difference maker.
Brown takes over Highs role in year one, I don't expect a big impact from him as a Frosh.

I AGREE !!! ^^^

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

I'd be surprised if any of our bigs return next season if they are allowed to transfer again. Especially Washington and High who have not transferred before. There is no way they are happy with their playing time, nor do I think they are UNC material. Washington has shown flashes but thats all. Nothing to say he can do that every game. Withers has went from earning playing time to getting basically nothing again. Okwonko left a bad situation at WVU and gets less playing time now.

 

[TarHeelFanWV]

High could turn out to be a good player but other than aggressive rebounding at times, I havnt seen much from him. He hasnt been good on the offensive side of the ball. Not sure if I would hold my breath. Again, as I have always said, this is UNC. We can compete with any NIL and have a coach that can recruit well. Why settle?

 

[DSouthr]

I believe in bringing in players from high school and developing them over time to the point they become solid players for us. I as well believe in todays game you have to look to the portal to fill immediate needs at times as starters and at times as depth. I look at a kid like High, I have no way of being able to see what that kid may give us down the road until he gets some much needed weight on that really thin frame. I think there may be a real nice players for us that is for now hidden because he just does not have the frame to play right now at this level. He is not Matt Hurt, we can see that but can he be 2years from now if he can get up to around 235lbs? IDK but I am willing to wait and see. Jalen, with all his rehab over the developmental years, I don't know if I even see him as a freshman right now.

Say we do portal in a starter level big man, I do think we will look to at least try to do just that all the others will be able to compete for minutes and there are minutes to be had, especially if Ingram were to leave. The fact that when Bacot does leave our only assumed to be back big man that is proven is Ingram, that should be a strong draw for a quality big man but to bet it all on our being able to get a Bacot level big man is to me to risky to bet, which means that new big may not get the minutes Bacot has got, translate that to more available minutes for our returning bigs.

I will put it this way, I think the next off season is critical for Jalen, JWit, and High, all 3 need to go in to this next off season working as if they are starters that will be called on to produce, they from that point can either step to that challenge or go elsewhere. That is for example exactly what Seth did, now at least I consider him our 6th starter and a serious impact player for us.

 

[tarwhiz]

High could turn out to be a good player but other than aggressive rebounding at times, I havnt seen much from him. He hasnt been good on the offensive side of the ball. Not sure if I would hold my breath. Again, as I have always said, this is UNC. We can compete with any NIL and have a coach that can recruit well. Why settle?

I am not saying High will be Brice Johnson, but they have very similar profiles as Freshman. They are both highly emotional, high motor players that foul excessively.
I didn't know what BJ was gonna be after his first year. He was too weak to flourish at the 5, and didn't have the ball skills to be an impact 4.
Brice really worked at both of those areas and became increasingly consistent to the point of being ACC POY as a Senior.
I think High has similar potential and I hope he meets that level as a Tar Heel.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What if Dickinson graduates this year (his 4th year in college) and then enters the portal as a grad transfer?

Oh, that's right. As a grad transfer, he won't have to sit out a year.

I hoped we'd get him out of high school, and again when he transferred to KU. If he's on the market again, I'll want him again.

I don't know if that would be an easy or hard fit, but I think you get him and make it work.

 

[Quest4Seven]

do we think players like Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel were pushed out or they thought going to worse teams and being starters was better for their careers?

if they were pushed out just to be replaced by Woj, Withers, Okonkwo and High then i have to question the talent evaluation of the staff

 

[DaveChapelle]

do we think players like Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel were pushed out or they thought going to worse teams and being starters was better for their careers?

if they were pushed out just to be replaced by Woj, Withers, Okonkwo and High then i have to question the talent evaluation of the staff

You conveniently left Cadeau, Ingram, and Ryan off your list of replacements.

Withers, Okonkwo, and High are all big men. Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel are all perimeter players whose poor contributions helped us stay on the bubble their entire time at UNC; and they wanted more playing time and potential starting spots this year. Cadeau, Ingram, and Ryan got those starting spots and we are currently in 1st place in the ACC thanks to the changes our staff made. Meanwhile Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel will be all missing the NCAA tournament yet again.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I am not saying High will be Brice Johnson, but they have very similar profiles as Freshman. They are both highly emotional, high motor players that foul excessively.
I didn't know what BJ was gonna be after his first year. He was too weak to flourish at the 5, and didn't have the ball skills to be an impact 4.
Brice really worked at both of those areas and became increasingly consistent to the point of being ACC POY as a Senior.
I think High has similar potential and I hope he meets that level as a Tar Heel.

I have no idea how they share the same profiles as freshman. Brice played 10 MPG and played in 36 games. He played in every game as a freshman and it was pretty clear that Brice had offensive talent immediately.

Brice averaged 20 points per 40 minutes as a freshman. While I didn't know whether Brice would be an All American, it was pretty clear that he could score it pretty well for a freshman and had some twitchy athleticism.

It's not an accurate comparison. High is a complete unknown. He may end up being good but that isn't really based on anything on the floor.

 

[tarwhiz]

You conveniently left Cadeau, Ingram, and Ryan off your list of replacements.

Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel are all perimeter players whose poor contributions helped us stay on the bubble their entire time at UNC; and they wanted more playing time and potential starting spots this year. Cadeau, Ingram, and Ryan got those starting spots and we are currently in 1st place in the ACC thanks to the changes our staff made. Meanwhile Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel will be all missing the NCAA tournament yet again.

Poor comment here by Quest4seven.
How this roster was put together, is tge reason we are having the season we are.
Is it perfect? No, but bringing everyone back from last year probably gets Hubert on a win or else scenario next season.

 

[DaveChapelle]

I have no idea how they share the same profiles as freshman. Brice played 10 MPG and played in 36 games. He played in every game as a freshman and it was pretty clear that Brice had offensive talent immediately.

Brice averaged 20 points per 40 minutes as a freshman. While I didn't know whether Brice would be an All American, it was pretty clear that he could score it pretty well for a freshman and had some twitchy athleticism.

It's not an accurate comparison. High is a complete unknown. He may end up being good but that isn't really based on anything on the floor.

Yikes.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

do we think players like Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel were pushed out or they thought going to worse teams and being starters was better for their careers?

if they were pushed out just to be replaced by Woj, Withers, Okonkwo and High then i have to question the talent evaluation of the staff

Don't forget Caleb, McKoy, Shaver (and Wilcher).

At the time, I felt most were encouraged to leave. Some directly (pushed, I suppose), some took the hint when they saw who we brought in. Except maybe in Nickel's case. By all accounts he had his own reasons to move.

I see no reason to change that opinion.

That said, for most of those guys, their destination choices pretty clearly show that they were looking for more PT, even if that meant going to weaker schools.

I notice that D'Marco has started the last 4 games for Penn St.

As for whether the newcomers you mentioned are good replacements...

I liked Justin, but Withers is better than McKoy, and has more upside besides.

Okonkwo is better than Shaver. I'm thinking he could be an important contributor next year.

I wasn't expecting anything from High as a frosh, but after showing well early on, he's faded. Seems to have attitude issues, but that could just be growing pains. Might get good quickly with PT and a hard-working off season.

I don't know what to make of Wojcik. Seems really solid, but after being quite good in a few early games, he hadn't gotten much PT until the last 2 games - where he performed well (vs Clemson) and was rugged but unproductive (vs Miami). I'd play him more, but Hubert won't. And he gets the big bucks,

Harrison and Cormac replace Caleb, Leaky, Dontrez and Puff. Despite scoring inconsistencies, I think that's been addition by subtraction.

 

[Quest4Seven]

You conveniently left Cadeau, Ingram, and Ryan off your list of replacements.

Withers, Okonkwo, and High are all big men. Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel are all perimeter players whose poor contributions helped us stay on the bubble their entire time at UNC; and they wanted more playing time and potential starting spots this year. Cadeau, Ingram, and Ryan got those starting spots and we are currently in 1st place in the ACC thanks to the changes our staff made. Meanwhile Dunn, Puff, Trez, and Nickel will be all missing the NCAA tournament yet again.

i didnt. those 3 were brought in to be starters. I dont think Hubert expected any of the people that left to be starting - and if he did they wouldnt have left. my point was the people we brought in to come off the bench arent any better than the bench players that left. i have no argument that cadeau, ingram and cormac as a whole was an upgrade over love, leaky and nance.

 

[DaveChapelle]

i didnt. those 3 were brought in to be starters. I dont think Hubert expected any of the people that left to be starting - and if he did they wouldnt have left. my point was the people we brought in to come off the bench arent any better than the bench players that left. i have no argument that cadeau, ingram and cormac as a whole was an upgrade over love, leaky and nance.

The people who left weren't satisfied playing bench player minutes. Puff, Dunn, Nickel, and Styles have all started at least a few games on their new teams this year.

The players Hubert brought in have us in position to win the ACC and get a top seed in the NCAA tournament. The whole point of retooling the roster was to put together a winning team. Not a collection of guys who all think they deserve starters' minutes while we struggle to make the NCAA tournament.

 

[FlaTarHeel]

I believe in bringing in players from high school and developing them over time to the point they become solid players for us.

That is for example exactly what Seth did, now at least I consider him our 6th starter and a serious impact player for us.

Same here DS.
Player development was the "Carolina Way" for over 50 years, but I wonder if that is still the case today.
The roster moves after THIS season will answer that question.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Same here DS.
Player development was the "Carolina Way" for over 50 years, but I wonder if that is still the case today.
The roster moves after THIS season will answer that question.

Hard to convince players to ride pine for multiple seasons when other coaches offer them bigger roles, and they no longer have to sit out a year with the new transfer rules.

We're lucky Trimble's brother played here, and that Trimble's childhood idol (Marcus Paige) is now on the bench. Bc I promise you opposing coaches will pursue him every offseason. We've got Cadeau, Jackson, Powell all scheduled to be on the roster next year. RJ Davis has a Covid year he can use. None of our fans ever mention Trimble as a potential starter next season.

 

[tarwhiz]

Yikes.

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Granted it isn't the best comparison based strictly on numbers, but Brice had more opportunities because it was a rebuilding year for Carolina. Roy played the roster a lot that year so he could see who he could trust going forward.
High is averaging around 10 rebounds per/40 and I think he has better ball skills than Freshman Brice. High was a guard until a few years ago when he grew 8 inches.
Brice was merely a catch and finish player as a Freshman.

 

[dtodd4475]

i didnt. those 3 were brought in to be starters. I dont think Hubert expected any of the people that left to be starting - and if he did they wouldnt have left. my point was the people we brought in to come off the bench arent any better than the bench players that left. i have no argument that cadeau, ingram and cormac as a whole was an upgrade over love, leaky and nance.

That is how I see it. If people consider that "pushed out", OK. I think Hubert had candid conversations that unless major improvements occured over the summer that they were looking at spot sub minute roles, with the teams eyes on bringing in veteran guys they would have to beat out for main rotation minutes. Ended up Ingram, Ryan, Withers and incoming freshman Cadeau. More 5 stars arriving the year after.

The kids had options at lesser basketball schools with the portal themselves and chose that chance for minutes elsewhere. The Wojcik type additions were OK with the sparse minute probability, they were in no way the replacements or the competition for the minutes that sent the others to get time elsewhere.