Jalen Washington's Season

[montana_heel]

I agree that Roy shortened the rotation at tournament time. But he played his bench more during the season and knew what combinations worked when/if he needed them. Not to mention guys got to play to keep them happy and for them to grow. You can give minutes stats as much as you want but we still ranked 322 in bench minutes.

Might explain hesitancy of transfers with that piece of info. Bet opposing coaches aren't sharing that with recruits they are after.

If that is the philosophy then don't expect to recruit 10 deep cause 3 or 4 will be leaving the following year.

I like coach Davis as the coach. Doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that he does.

 

[NathanFielder]

I agree that Roy shortened the rotation at tournament time. But he played his bench more during the season and knew what combinations worked when/if he needed them. Not to mention guys got to play to keep them happy and for them to grow. You can give minutes stats as much as you want but we still ranked 322 in bench minutes.

Might explain hesitancy of transfers with that piece of info. Bet opposing coaches aren't sharing that with recruits they are after.

If that is the philosophy then don't expect to recruit 10 deep cause 3 or 4 will be leaving the following year.

I like coach Davis as the coach. Doesn't mean I have to agree with everything that he does.

Well, we weren't all that deep last year. We had an 8 man rotation with Wojcik being an emergency 9 for basically the entire season except the last game of the season, lol. Then within the 8, you had Seth who's extremely inconsistent in his offensive production. Withers is extremely inconsistent to begin with. And Washington, who on many occasions was a 1-way player. So there wasn't much depth and there definitely wasn't much fire power off the bench.

I guess I just didn't see the quality in the bench to play them a ton, especially once ACC play started. I'm opposed to just playing the bench and assuming that they'll develop. I thought it was relatively clear early that Withers wasn't as impactful as many hoped he would be. He's a project. As much as Seth improved, he's a project. I would've played Washington more, but he's a project. And Wojcik is a borderline at best rotation player on a good team. I would've been intrigued with more Washington minutes though.

It's different from Marvin Williams, Ed Davis, Tony Bradley, etc. Even the other bench players Roy had like Bobby Frasor, Marcus Ginyard started for like an entire season before coming off the bench later. That's probably not a realistic thing anymore. Guys that get demoted today are transferring. Also, talent like PJ Hairston and Brice Johnson had probably lesser players starting over them for periods of time. Desmond Hubert started for like 1/2 a season and James Michael McAdoo started his last two seasons. And frankly neither of them were any good.

Maybe this coming season will be a truer test. I have no idea how the roster will play out from here, but by chance if Ian Jackson and Drake Powell are coming off the bench... In theory, those are 2 high-level prospects that are similar to when Roy had high-level freshman 5* prospects off the bench.

But again, maybe you and I saw a different level of quality coming off the bench. I didn't see a ton there.

 

[NathanFielder]

Yes, many times Roy did play a shorter bench, Dean did as well and they won nattys doing so. Hubert went Iron 5 with basically Roy's core players + Manek and had we done basically anything in that second half Hubert would have won a natty as a rookie head coach. But Dean NEVER had to deal with and Roy got out before this wide open portal and NIL stuff really dramatically changed the game. Hubert goes Iron 5 to get to the natty game and look how many players entered the portal after? You have to make solid recruiting decisions for kids first coming to the college game and if you make good decisions you have players that can help you, you have to work to retain and develop those guys, Dean nor Roy had to work to retain players they recruited like has to be done now. We can fondly recall the past but things have changed, things have radically changed.

Purdue had a great season, they had Edny, no one else had a Edny but the problem is Edny is now gone and Gillis is now a dukie, so what now happens with that Purdue team with out Edny or Gillis? Trust me, I know there are a bunch of Edny type guys in the NBA, we are talking college still.

It's all about evaluating talent for head coaches in today's game. Clingan and Karaban were ranked outside the top 50 in the recruiting rankings, but they were 2 of the very best players of their recruiting class. In Clingan's case, he was a top 5 center in the country probably as a freshman. And in Karaban's case, he was a top 5 SF in the country by his sophomore season. Edey was 3* and was really productive even as a freshman in limited minutes. The same goes for the transfer portal. Hubert found Manek who probably ended up being one of the 5 best transfers in the country. The next year he got Nance who was probably a bit overrated as a transfer.

That's what it's going to take. The coaches that can do that the best and do that consistently will find themselves making deep runs in March the most often. Coaches are general managers now and they have at most a 2 year window with most of these players. How is your talent evaluation?

I personally don't know why everyone wants UNC to play a specific way every season. I think it should be more dictated on who you have. I don't think playing 80 possessions/game is best for every UNC team. I don't think playing the bench like 40% of your team's minutes is best for every UNC team. In fact, I hope Hubert adjusts to each team.

 

[montana_heel]

I agree. The days of Roy are gone due to transfer and NIL. I think coach is also being more discerning with the recruits he is bringing in. This hopefully does bring up our bench production in the coming years. I am pro coach Davis other than a few things. Overall, he is great.

I know I have picked on him just recently about what I don't like but that is what the boards are for is to discuss these topics.

 

[DSouthr]

It's all about evaluating talent for head coaches in today's game. Clingan and Karaban were ranked outside the top 50 in the recruiting rankings, but they were 2 of the very best players of their recruiting class. In Clingan's case, he was a top 5 center in the country probably as a freshman. And in Karaban's case, he was a top 5 SF in the country by his sophomore season. Edey was 3* and was really productive even as a freshman in limited minutes. The same goes for the transfer portal. Hubert found Manek who probably ended up being one of the 5 best transfers in the country. The next year he got Nance who was probably a bit overrated as a transfer.

That's what it's going to take. The coaches that can do that the best and do that consistently will find themselves making deep runs in March the most often. Coaches are general managers now and they have at most a 2 year window with most of these players. How is your talent evaluation?

I personally don't know why everyone wants UNC to play a specific way every season. I think it should be more dictated on who you have. I don't think playing 80 possessions/game is best for every UNC team. I don't think playing the bench like 40% of your team's minutes is best for every UNC team. In fact, I hope Hubert adjusts to each team.

While I want UNC to play a certain way EVERY season, I think you need to recruit, both high school and portal for players that fit our playing style. BUT, I am not about forcing square pegs in to round holes either, you have to play with the guys you have with an eye both on the current season as well as how this season's decisions impact my future teams. Our UNC brand is a team that pushes pace, pushes tempo, gets out and runs so you go get guys that fit that mold, as opposed say to what Oates is doing at Alabama or what UVa does.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree. The days of Roy are gone due to transfer and NIL. I think coach is also being more discerning with the recruits he is bringing in. This hopefully does bring up our bench production in the coming years. I am pro coach Davis other than a few things. Overall, he is great.

I know I have picked on him just recently about what I don't like but that is what the boards are for is to discuss these topics.

A lot of what I say may make it seem I am not behind Hubert, I admit it was shaky after last season, I went from sold to man, is this really the guy we need. I like a lot of what I saw this season, more than I want to see I didn't care for but no where near the concern I had after season before last ended with UNC not in the post season.

 

[tarwhiz]

I can't stand how often we just have to say how bad Hubs' decisions were! I'm sorry but were we asleep for the last 10 years??? Hubs has UNC back where it is supposed to be and coached us to an ACC champ season and a #1 seed. (puke sweep, Sweet 16, etc) He has us on the lips of every elite player in HS and in the portal again! When it was suggested he might play 10 peeps there was wailing and tearing out of hair. When he contracted the bench there was wailing and screeching. The boys on the bench were told exactly how to get PT and instead of doing that, they whined and ran! The ones who stayed got better and will continue to improve! Now we are expecting peeps who haven't even graduated from HS to be misused and left to rot on the bench because.....oh yeah there is no reason! It really is too bad that we don't get a say in in-game coaching because then UNC would finally succeed!

BTW: I am starting to get a strange yet somewhat familiar vibe from Mr. Nathan Fielder! I have a very long memory and the style strikes a cord! I'll wait a bit to see if I'm totally off base!

DUDE! SAME!
The writing style is EXACTLY THE SAME, RIGHT?!?😏

 

[NathanFielder]

While I want UNC to play a certain way EVERY season, I think you need to recruit, both high school and portal for players that fit our playing style. BUT, I am not about forcing square pegs in to round holes either, you have to play with the guys you have with an eye both on the current season as well as how this season's decisions impact my future teams. Our UNC brand is a team that pushes pace, pushes tempo, gets out and runs so you go get guys that fit that mold, as opposed say to what Oates is doing at Alabama or what UVa does.

That's stylistic and everyone can have their own opinion on that. I think most of that should be dictated by who you have and the coach needs to be able to coach any kind of tempo if that's what's required to win. I'm against extremes either way. If you play extremely slow, or extremely fast, you need to be elite (probably more offensively than defensively) to win consistently.

Regardless, I think Hubert's next step is as an offensive playcaller. Basketball head coaches are offensive coordinators and playcallers in football. There needs to be a rhyme and reason for how he calls a game. I know a lot of people here want more freelance and I guess that's ok. The best teams over the last 3 years or so run a ton of set plays and evolve throughout the season where they add a wrinkle to each set action so they have 3 or 4 counter actions within a look. Or they hunted matchups. It's similar to football and Danny Hurley recently even said so on a podcast.

And I saw signs of that from Hubert. Against Villanova, we ran what looked like that outdated elevator off a box set, but instead ran iverson cut to a hammer corner Ryan 3. It was a layer. Then for some reason after that, we ran the elevator off a box set every time we needed a 3 late game.


That's what I want to see more of. Do we have different actions off the same look.

 

[UNC Blue Hup]

‘Best teams over the last 3 or 4 years’ ..the game will evolve and continue to evolve..don’t chase it..get the players and discipline to buy in with the Carolina concepts to run, pound the boards and play hard D—and we’ll win. People put all these theories in the ‘new game’ ..it comes back to be fundamentally sound on D and run, pound boards—we’ll win

 

[UNC Blue Hup]

EC is gonna run this year boys !!

 

[TPFKAPFS]

A wise man once said, "I am whatever you say I am."

And a wise sailor man once said, "What am I? I yam what I yam." And another sage said, "You are what you eat!" SO:

If what I eat is what I am
I plan to eat the finest ham
And find someone with which to jam
Spreading joy to all my fans
Elucidating what I can
To educate my fellow man!

BUT If I am not what I thought
And find my battles were for naught
All my pathways clearly fraught
With trolls whose fandom's cheaply bought
I'll still feel the effort wasn't lost
Since Family is worth the cost!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If he splits time with a true defensive Force then it might work out .I like him as a 20 minute a game guy with his offense but you know the end result with Physical Centers and him ..

Omier would be a good pairing.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

And a wise sailor man once said, "What am I? I yam what I yam." And another sage said, "You are what you eat!" SO:

If what I eat is what I am
I plan to eat the finest ham
And find someone with which to jam
Spreading joy to all my fans
Elucidating what I can
To educate my fellow man!

BUT If I am not what I thought
And find my battles were for naught
All my pathways clearly fraught
With trolls whose fandom's cheaply bought
I'll still feel the effort wasn't lost
Since Family is worth the cost!

Is that your own? I like it.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Is that your own? I like it.

Thanks! Yes. I was creating it as I posted. I taught English for 25 years, lol!

 

[DSouthr]

That's stylistic and everyone can have their own opinion on that. I think most of that should be dictated by who you have and the coach needs to be able to coach any kind of tempo if that's what's required to win. I'm against extremes either way. If you play extremely slow, or extremely fast, you need to be elite (probably more offensively than defensively) to win consistently.

Regardless, I think Hubert's next step is as an offensive playcaller. Basketball head coaches are offensive coordinators and playcallers in football. There needs to be a rhyme and reason for how he calls a game. I know a lot of people here want more freelance and I guess that's ok. The best teams over the last 3 years or so run a ton of set plays and evolve throughout the season where they add a wrinkle to each set action so they have 3 or 4 counter actions within a look. Or they hunted matchups. It's similar to football and Danny Hurley recently even said so on a podcast.

And I saw signs of that from Hubert. Against Villanova, we ran what looked like that outdated elevator off a box set, but instead ran iverson cut to a hammer corner Ryan 3. It was a layer. Then for some reason after that, we ran the elevator off a box set every time we needed a 3 late game.

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That's what I want to see more of. Do we have different actions off the same look.

"That's stylistic and everyone can have their own opinion on that. I think most of that should be dictated by who you have and the coach needs to be able to coach any kind of tempo if that's what's required to win. I'm against extremes either way. If you play extremely slow, or extremely fast, you need to be elite (probably more offensively than defensively) to win consistently."

So EVERY coach should coach in every coaching style? I notice you say the approach should depend on who the coach has available, that part is true, but you don't mention how those players get there. So you have a slower PG OK, but no ask why that coach got a slower PG if that coach prefers a different approach, it is OK by you that a coach can be allowed to select the approach to offense and defense that he prefers isn't it? I said a coach should RECRUIT players that fit his preferred approach on both ends, you seem to disagree? I am not in to a 3 little bears approach to coaching, I prefer bringing in bears that fit the beds I have.

And do we suggest now that a coach radically change his preferred approach just because others are doing it? So you feel we should call even more set plays and less free lance? My thing is we have a PG that has great creativity that is constrained by an over dependence on set plays. Didn't you say something about coaching to the players you have? Incorporate set plays for sure, have to to handle special situations that come up in every game. But an over depend on them can and many times has bogged us down. So much now of limited practice time seems to be geared toward set plays with less and less on free lance precepts and I think that should be the opposite. Why, because after the set play breaks down and many times that is the case, we are left to find something in free lance that we have not practiced. You give the example of wanting different set looks off a box set, cool, you sneaking in to the realm of free lance, read react?

I strongly believe a team plays better when they are playing free but within precepts, motion offense that has 5 players involved. We watched all season before last a bath of called set plays bog us down time and again and we did not make the post season, I was not a fan of that. WE used to call that over coaching and it tended to be frowned upon, advocating for that now strikes me odd. You are giving more a NBA approach where they have all the time they need to practice their players, that time is very limited in the college game.

 

[NathanFielder]

So EVERY coach should coach in every coaching style? I notice you say the approach should depend on who the coach has available, that part is true, but you don't mention how those players get there. So you have a slower PG OK, but no ask why that coach got a slower PG if that coach prefers a different approach, it is OK by you that a coach can be allowed to select the approach to offense and defense that he prefers isn't it? I said a coach should RECRUIT players that fit his preferred approach on both ends, you seem to disagree? I am not in to a 3 little bears approach to coaching, I prefer bringing in bears that fit the beds I have.

And do we suggest now that a coach radically change his preferred approach just because others are doing it? So you feel we should call even more set plays and less free lance? My thing is we have a PG that has great creativity that is constrained by an over dependence on set plays. Didn't you say something about coaching to the players you have? Incorporate set plays for sure, have to to handle special situations that come up in every game. But an over depend on them can and many times has bogged us down. So much now of limited practice time seems to be geared toward set plays with less and less on free lance precepts and I think that should be the opposite. Why, because after the set play breaks down and many times that is the case, we are left to find something in free lance that we have not practiced. You give the example of wanting different set looks off a box set, cool, you sneaking in to the realm of free lance, read react?

I strongly believe a team plays better when they are playing free but within precepts, motion offense that has 5 players involved. We watched all season before last a bath of called set plays bog us down time and again and we did not make the post season, I was not a fan of that. WE used to call that over coaching and it tended to be frowned upon, advocating for that now strikes me odd. You are giving more a NBA approach where they have all the time they need to practice their players, that time is very limited in the college game.

No, every coach shouldn't coach every coaching style. But every coach should prioritize the execution and creativity of their half-court offense and defense. If you can execute your half-court offense at a high level, then your offense is less dependent on tempo and pace to score efficiently. You can have your beliefs on pace and honestly, I don't think there's much wrong in playing slow vs fast. Although, plenty of teams that play slow have won National Championships (UVA, UConn, Villanova, Baylor). There honestly haven't been many examples of teams playing extremely fast and winning National Championships in recent years. That list is UNC and Kansas a couple of years ago. You can argue that UNC is an outlier there (thankfully so).

So of course you recruit to the pace and style you want to play. I have my preferences but those aren't absolute. You can win in a lot of different ways in basketball. But it will almost always come down to executing in the half-court to win championships.

When it comes to freelance and motion vs set plays. That depends on the set plays. If you're asking me do I prefer the set playbook that Hubert has shown through three seasons vs freelance/motion? I'd probably lean towards freelance. Hubert's set plays can be pretty static. A coach on Twitter tracked Danny Hurley's set plays over 2 years and he tracked over 200 plays. If you're asking do I prefer freelance/motion or Danny Hurley's playbook? I would go with Danny Hurley's set plays. It's not like he had 200 separate formations though. It looks like he had maybe 10-15 looks, then 10-20 actions that can come off of that.

This also depends on what you define as set plays. In the National Championship game, UConn ran mostly ball screen action to get Edey involved defensively. Is that a set play? Or is that freelance/motion? I'm reminded of when UNC won at Duke one year when Lawson was just abusing Greg Paulus. And like 6 possessions straight, Roy just called a clearout for Lawson to take Paulus or whatever mismatch. Is that a set play? Or motion?

So I don't know if a team plays better either way. If a team has really good set play action, I'm sure they play really well running that action. If a team has a pretty static and unimaginative playbook, they'll probably run better freelance/motion.

 

[DSouthr]

No, every coach shouldn't coach every coaching style. But every coach should prioritize the execution and creativity of their half-court offense and defense. If you can execute your half-court offense at a high level, then your offense is less dependent on tempo and pace to score efficiently. You can have your beliefs on pace and honestly, I don't think there's much wrong in playing slow vs fast. Although, plenty of teams that play slow have won National Championships (UVA, UConn, Villanova, Baylor). There honestly haven't been many examples of teams playing extremely fast and winning National Championships in recent years. That list is UNC and Kansas a couple of years ago. You can argue that UNC is an outlier there (thankfully so).

So of course you recruit to the pace and style you want to play. I have my preferences but those aren't absolute. You can win in a lot of different ways in basketball. But it will almost always come down to executing in the half-court to win championships.

When it comes to freelance and motion vs set plays. That depends on the set plays. If you're asking me do I prefer the set playbook that Hubert has shown through three seasons vs freelance/motion? I'd probably lean towards freelance. Hubert's set plays can be pretty static. A coach on Twitter tracked Danny Hurley's set plays over 2 years and he tracked over 200 plays. If you're asking do I prefer freelance/motion or Danny Hurley's playbook? I would go with Danny Hurley's set plays. It's not like he had 200 separate formations though. It looks like he had maybe 10-15 looks, then 10-20 actions that can come off of that.

This also depends on what you define as set plays. In the National Championship game, UConn ran mostly ball screen action to get Edey involved defensively. Is that a set play? Or is that freelance/motion? I'm reminded of when UNC won at Duke one year when Lawson was just abusing Greg Paulus. And like 6 possessions straight, Roy just called a clearout for Lawson to take Paulus or whatever mismatch. Is that a set play? Or motion?

So I don't know if a team plays better either way. If a team has really good set play action, I'm sure they play really well running that action. If a team has a pretty static and unimaginative playbook, they'll probably run better freelance/motion.

Nate, Nate, Nate man I have GREAT news for ya, I have just found YOUR SOUL MATE! He is a new poster going by the screen name BCox, he even hit me with KenPom stats and everything!👌💕🤣