National Anthem Question

[WhatTheHeel?]

Chick's Pledge of Allegiance article thread prompted me to finally ask this question.

As the National Anthem is not a pledge, when someone is singing it, like before an event, I've always stood with my hands behind my back rather than with my hand over my heart. I guess it's kind of like "at attention" though I have no military background. I see all sorts of different stances but was curious what the OOTB crowd considers appropriate.

 

[BillyL]

I grew up respecting the PoA with my hand over my heart . . its how I roll.

 

[RP12]

I'm not a fan of the PoA or war anthems particularly, but I get why so many are, as it means something different to everyone. I do the same usually just stand and wait. I have a bigger problem with some of these things happening in churches, which has led me to not attend at certain "holidays".

 

[Raising Heel]

Hand over my heart for the Star-Spangled Banner.

As an aside, I love seeing former and current military salute during the SSB. Sometimes I'll even thank them for their service afterwards. The SSB is one of my favorite parts of the pre-game for any sporting event. If done right, everyone stops what they're doing for that couple minutes. It's a powerful moment IMO.

 

[heelz2345]

I'm a hand over my heart guy. Always have been.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

SSB I will always put my hand over my heart and more times than not, have a tear in my eye.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Hand over heart and I get goosebumps every time.

Reason #109303 Mooers suck: they disparage our national anthem by yelling "RED" during the line "and the rockets' red glare..."

 

[heelz2345]

Hand over heart and I get goosebumps every time.

Reason #109303 Mooers suck: they disparage our national anthem by yelling "RED" during the line "and the rockets' red glare..."

Well even worse is changing the end to be "home of the wolfpack." I thought about mentioning it in my initial post, but yeah, I hate when those SOB's do that

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

I think etiquette dictates that only military and veterans stand with hands at their side and civilians are to stand with hand over heart and always face the flag.

 

[Raising Heel]

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Designation.—

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1)when the flag is displayed—

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
​

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.​

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

 

[chick_bleeds_carolina_blue]

36 U.S. Code § 301 - National anthem
Current through Pub. L. 114-38. (See Public Laws for the current Congress.)

• US Code
• Notes

prev | next
(a) Designation.—

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

(b) Conduct During Playing.—During a rendition of the national anthem—

(1)when the flag is displayed—

(A) individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note;

(B) members of the Armed Forces and veterans who are present but not in uniform may render the military salute in the manner provided for individuals in uniform; and

(C) all other persons present should face the flag and stand at attention with their right hand over the heart, and men not in uniform, if applicable, should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold it at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and
​

(2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.​

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/36/301

There ya go..... perfect.... NOW, let's discuss the lyrics, shall we? lol

 

[tarheel0910]

I don't have a set way to do it. I will either stand with my hand over my heart or with them behind my back. I always take my hat off though.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm not a fan of the PoA or war anthems particularly

I wouldn't call the national anthem a war anthem. It was inspired by an event that took place during a war, but it has evolved into something more than that.

 

[strummingram]

I wouldn't call the national anthem a war anthem. It was inspired by an event that took place during a war, but it has evolved into something more than that.

What is something you'd call a war anthem? Besides the "Fish Cheer" of course?

 

[tarheel0910]

What is something you'd call a war anthem? Besides the "Fish Cheer" of course?

I don't know any off the top of my head. Like I said though, it has evolved into something besides what it was initially. It wasn't picked as the national anthem because it represented war.

 

[strummingram]

I try to be as irreverent as possible to any forced gesture or tradition that requires- or implies a requirement to- an obedience to the State. So, if I am in attendance at a sports event (which is like a mock war in most cases, especially football), I will usually , at least, stand up, so as to not blatantly upset everyone around me. I don't wear hats, so I don't have to remove it.

 

[strummingram]

It wasn't picked as the national anthem because it represented war.

How do you know that? It sure wasn't picked because it represented peace!

It's the ONLY national anthem that mentions rockets and bombs and war. I like Jimi Hendrix's version of it. Maybe because I felt it was unorthodox and it was only the melody... no words. It's not a bad song, per se, but it does, without a doubt, evoke the image of war. And, America is a very warlike country.

 

[heelz2345]

This is the only war anthem I know

 

[strummingram]

This is the only war anthem I know

View embedded media

That's actually an ANTI-war anthem.

 

[heelz2345]

That's actually an ANTI-war anthem.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Many great men and women, including some old friends of mine, gave their lives for Old Glory and what it stands for. I will show it respect for as long as I live. To show it disrespect is to say their lives/sacrifice didn't matter. jmhho

 

[Raising Heel]

It's the ONLY national anthem that mentions rockets and bombs and war.

That's straight up ignorant, dawg. Many, many national anthems originated in wartime. Here are the few excerpts it took 5 minutes to find:

Algeria:
We swear by the lightning that destroys,
By the streams of generous blood being shed,
By the bright flags that wave,
Flying proudly on the high mountains,
That we are in revolt, whether to live or to die

Italy:
Mercenary swords,
they're feeble reeds.
The Austrian eagle
Has already lost its plumes.
The blood of Italy
and the Polish blood It drank,
along with the Cossack,
But it burned its heart

Turkey:
For only then, shall my fatigued tombstone,
if there is one, prostrate a thousand times in ecstasy,
And tears of fiery blood shall flow out of my every wound,
And my lifeless body shall gush out from the earth like an eternal spirit,
Perhaps only then, shall I peacefully ascend and at long last reach the heavens.

France:
Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Bloody standard is raised
Can you hear in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers?
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of our sons and consorts!
To arms, citizens,
Form in battalions,
March, march!
Let impure blood
Water our furrows!

 

[heelbent]

I still salute.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Italy:
Mercenary swords,
they're feeble reeds.
The Austrian eagle
Has already lost its plumes.
The blood of Italy
and the Polish blood It drank,
along with the Cossack,
But it burned its heart

Christ LOL.

 

[strummingram]

That's straight up ignorant, dawg. Many, many national anthems originated in wartime. Here are the few excerpts it took 5 minutes to find:

Algeria:
We swear by the lightning that destroys,
By the streams of generous blood being shed,
By the bright flags that wave,
Flying proudly on the high mountains,
That we are in revolt, whether to live or to die

Italy:
Mercenary swords,
they're feeble reeds.
The Austrian eagle
Has already lost its plumes.
The blood of Italy
and the Polish blood It drank,
along with the Cossack,
But it burned its heart

Turkey:
For only then, shall my fatigued tombstone,
if there is one, prostrate a thousand times in ecstasy,
And tears of fiery blood shall flow out of my every wound,
And my lifeless body shall gush out from the earth like an eternal spirit,
Perhaps only then, shall I peacefully ascend and at long last reach the heavens.

France:
Arise children of the fatherland
The day of glory has arrived
Against us tyranny's
Bloody standard is raised
Bloody standard is raised
Can you hear in the fields
The howling of these fearsome soldiers?
They are coming into our midst
To cut the throats of our sons and consorts!
To arms, citizens,
Form in battalions,
March, march!
Let impure blood
Water our furrows!

I stand corrected. Thanks for going to all that trouble to prove me wrong. Muchas Gracias. I should have stuck with Carlin's quote and just said "Rockets and Bombs."

You'd think France would have been less likely to get its ass kicked in Dubbelya-Dubbelya Two with an anthem like that! Maybe it lacks some effect when spoken in French.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I stand corrected. Thanks for going to all that trouble to prove me wrong. Muchas Gracias.I should have stuck with Carlin's quote and just said "Rockets and Bombs."

You'd think France would have been less likely to get its ass kicked in Dubbelya-Dubbelya Two with an anthem like that! Maybe it lacks some effect when spoken in French.

Ditto for the Italian anthem. Last time they were badass at fighting (in legit warfare, not crime family alleyway shanks) was 2000 years ago with a bunch of soldiers they, er... "encouraged" to join the Roman Empire.

 

[strummingram]

Many great men and women, including some old friends of mine, gave their lives for Old Glory and what it stands for. I will show it respect for as long as I live. To show it disrespect is to say their lives/sacrifice didn't matter. jmhho

You mean if YOU don't do that, you're showing disrespect. You're not claiming that I am showing disrespect if I choose not to do it, I hope.

 

[strummingram]

Ditto for the Italian anthem. Last time they were badass at fighting (in legit warfare, not crime family alleyway shanks) was 2000 years ago with a bunch of soldiers they, er... "encouraged" to join the Roman Empire.

I wonder if that was in Latin? I'm sure the more triumphant the lyrics to the song, the more relevant and "good" the country is as well. It's a bunch of hooey over some sentimental gestures to me. I guess that's why the Rebel Flag doesn't offend me.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

You mean if YOU don't do that, you're showing disrespect. You're not claiming that I am showing disrespect if I choose not to do it, I hope.

I feel ALL who don't are disrespecting what they died for. AND like I said, jmhho. FREEDOM is not free, somebody paid a debt you cannot repay.

 

[strummingram]

I feel ALL who don't are disrespecting what they died for. AND like I said, jmhho. FREEDOM is not free, somebody paid a debt you cannot repay.

So, if I understand you correctly; Me not holding my hand on my chest while some song is played is also saying that people that I don't even know, or ever knew, lives didn't matter? I'm disrespecting them for not participating in some empty, token gesture at a sports event? That may be what you think the gesture means, and, that's fine. I don't put my faith in the State. I don't place my obedience to the State either. If those people thought they were making someone else "free" by killing people in a different country, good for them. I certainly don't believe they were.

However, I am not saying you that you're wrong for displaying what YOU FEEL is "respect" for what you think others have done. I don't know what these people "died for." To me, that is some abstract sentiment of allegiance to get other people, who are still alive, to think that it's okay to go kill more people who live in a different part of the planet Earth because some leader of the State said they are a threat to "us" over here. Those people over there are my family just like you are. God tells me that.

 

[tarheel0910]

If those people thought they were making someone else "free" by killing people in a different country, good for them. I certainly don't believe they were.

I'm assuming you are not referring to WWI and WWII? You said in a different country, so I'm assuming that you are not referring to the Revolutionary War or Civil war as well.

 

[Raising Heel]

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

 

[UNC '92]

Strum's work in this thread:

 

[strummingram]

I'm assuming you are not referring to WWI and WWII? You said in a different country, so I'm assuming that you are not referring to the Revolutionary War or Civil war as well.

I'm referring to ANY war, okay? War is the health of the state. Every war is waged for the same reasons. Our consciousness is based on winners and losers, apparently. Our structure is not very evolved... yet. It's very, very slowly moving away from that.

When people ally themselves with human constructs- like "countries", or religions, etc.- then they fall prey to the divisive nature and consequences of those things. History is loaded with them. They're still around today, just like they were thousands and thousands of years ago. When you have divisions, of ANY kind, you will always have the notion of superiority of one over the other(s). It's inevitable and manifests itself in typically very destructive ways. They often solve disputes by killing each other. Whoever kills the most, and the other "surrenders" is considered the winners. The Nazis murdered millions in the Holocaust, the americans murdered hundreds of thousands on the Great Plains. The Americans killed innocent people, just like every other empire in history. And, the "right" or "wrong" of it is all relative, and a matter of degree, to which group, nation, tribe, religion, club, party, etc., that you (or whomever) claim to belong.

So, pledging allegiance to, or honoring anything that is associated with that is not something I will usually do, especially in my own home. But, if I am in the presence of others, in a public setting that I chose to attend, who are probably going to be upset by my disobedient actions, I'll try to conform enough so as to not create any hassle for myself at that time and place.

 

[strummingram]

"Son, we live in a world that has walls, and those walls have to be guarded by men with guns. Who's gonna do it? You? You, Lt. Weinburg? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom. You weep for Santiago, and you curse the Marines. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know. That Santiago's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives. You don't want the truth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me on that wall, you need me on that wall. We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way, Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post. Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to."

General Smedley Butler: War is a Racket

 

[strummingram]

Strum's work in this thread:

Oooh, you got me there. I'm sorry for interrupting the "God Bless America" circle jerk. Here's some lotion and tissues. Carry on.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

But, if I am in the presence of others, in a public setting that I chose to attend, who are probably going to be upset by my disobedient actions, I'll try to conform enough so as to not create any hassle for myself at that time and place.

Eh, this is where you lose credibility I think. If you truly believed this and weren't just trolling right now - you'd go through with your disobedient actions regardless of the people around you.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Strum's work in this thread:

lol

 

[heelbent]

Eh, this is where you lose credibility I think. If you truly believed this and weren't just trolling right now - you'd go through with your disobedient actions regardless of the people around you.

This

 

[strummingram]

Eh, this is where you lose credibility I think. If you truly believed this and weren't just trolling right now - you'd go through with your disobedient actions regardless of the people around you.

Well, I already said, I don't hold my hand over my heart. I just stand there. I don't sing, I don't clap. But, after your comment, I may stay in my seat from now on. Thank you for the inspiration.