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But will the NCAA care about that? That's the real question.Originally posted by mikeirbyusa:
Why? They had a ATHLETIC SCANDAL pure and simple, we have an academic scandal.
Self imposing a post season ban in a year that they weren't going to make the tournament in anyways? If that's supposed to lessen the blow from the NCAA, lets just have Roy sit out the first half against some cupcake next year and tell the NCAA we self-imposed and they can leave now?Originally posted by Clive Gollings:
This doesn't look good for UNC. At all. That's with them self imposing penalties.
Horsesh*t.Originally posted by Clive Gollings:
This doesn't look good for UNC. At all. That's with them self imposing penalties.
And that's what we need to be worried about. That, and the fact that the NCAA is experiencing and would experience public outcry if UNC doesn't receive some type of punishment. Even if they were trying to not punish us (which some delusional people think), I don't think they would risk tarnishing their already tarnished image any further.Originally posted by gary-7:
Horsesh*t.Originally posted by Clive Gollings:
This doesn't look good for UNC. At all. That's with them self imposing penalties.
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions. The only remote taint with basketball was during Doherty's tenure of not acting on some red flags about too many players gravitating to AFAM courses and majors. That is far from a culpable offense. Not that the NCAA is above inventing things from time to time, but that would be a hugely unwarranted stretch.
I agree that the NCAA may not have any qualms with unjustly screwing over a program, to try to save face (that makes me laugh - NCAA is a JOKE).... but if they do that, then UNC should refuse the punishment and take the case to federal court.Originally posted by RoseHeel:
And that's what we need to be worried about. That, and the fact that the NCAA is experiencing and would experience public outcry if UNC doesn't receive some type of punishment. Even if they were trying to not punish us (which some delusional people think), I don't think they would risk tarnishing their already tarnished image any further.Originally posted by gary-7:
Horsesh*t.Originally posted by Clive Gollings:
This doesn't look good for UNC. At all. That's with them self imposing penalties.
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions. The only remote taint with basketball was during Doherty's tenure of not acting on some red flags about too many players gravitating to AFAM courses and majors. That is far from a culpable offense. Not that the NCAA is above inventing things from time to time, but that would be a hugely unwarranted stretch.
I'm all for abolishing the NCAA entirely. They are answerable to no one. I'd be very content with just the conferences. The NCAA is culpable to almost everything that they are penalizing anyway. The NCAA makes billions of dollars off of these kids and these scholastic institutions. And, this token display of "keeping it clean" is such a blatant dumpster fire of hypocrisy that I don't know how people ever take it seriously or legitimately on ANY level! I truly don't. The NCAA is just as complicit as anything in creating this whole false chasm of "amateur athletics" anyway. It's not amateur at all. When I played Little League baseball at age 12, my team was sponsored by a local drugstore! Amateur is sandlot kids after school, during summer break, or gymnasium pick-up games. Pretending otherwise is just lying to yourself and each other.Originally posted by RoseHeel:
And that's what we need to be worried about. That, and the fact that the NCAA is experiencing and would experience public outcry if UNC doesn't receive some type of punishment. Even if they were trying to not punish us (which some delusional people think), I don't think they would risk tarnishing their already tarnished image any further.Originally posted by gary-7:
Horsesh*t.Originally posted by Clive Gollings:
This doesn't look good for UNC. At all. That's with them self imposing penalties.
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions. The only remote taint with basketball was during Doherty's tenure of not acting on some red flags about too many players gravitating to AFAM courses and majors. That is far from a culpable offense. Not that the NCAA is above inventing things from time to time, but that would be a hugely unwarranted stretch.
The NCAA has certainly lost face since that jackwagon Emmert took over. The good precedent though is that they resisted the LOUD public outcry over the Cam Newton nonsense because when the actual facts were examined there was nothing there concerning Auburn. It was largely a non-scandal ginned up by the school that actually tried to offer his Dad money (Miss.State) in order to try to save their asses, and amplified by the very loud Auburn-haters (bama/uga types) whose vitriol probably exceeds even ABCers. Kudos, btw, to Gene Chizik for how he handled that episode. I sort of wish Roy would take a similar positive stance, as much of it is PR intensive. However, he thing that makes it tough for Roy is that something actually did happen at UNC, and although it shouldn't taint the integrity of the basketball program, it looks bad from outside and puts Roy in a no-win situation with the media.Originally posted by RoseHeel:
And that's what we need to be worried about. That, and the fact that the NCAA is experiencing and would experience public outcry if UNC doesn't receive some type of punishment. Even if they were trying to not punish us (which some delusional people think), I don't think they would risk tarnishing their already tarnished image any further.Originally posted by gary-7:
Horsesh*t.Originally posted by Clive Gollings:
This doesn't look good for UNC. At all. That's with them self imposing penalties.
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions. The only remote taint with basketball was during Doherty's tenure of not acting on some red flags about too many players gravitating to AFAM courses and majors. That is far from a culpable offense. Not that the NCAA is above inventing things from time to time, but that would be a hugely unwarranted stretch.
My mistake. You're correct, thanks for catching that. That's obviously more serious than just sitting the first 9 games of the season.Originally posted by toophly1124:
I thought they said first 9 ACC games ..which is a bigger deal ... I could be wrong tho
What a basketball-only, head-in-the-sand response. Have you bothered to read the Wainstein report?:Originally posted by gary-7:
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions.
Unless they are going to go back and punish UNC for slackness in the Doherty era... how is that "head in the sand"?Originally posted by Raising Heel:
What a basketball-only, head-in-the-sand response. Have you bothered to read the Wainstein report?:Originally posted by gary-7:
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions.
A good number of these student-athletes were "steered" to the AFAM paper
classes by certain academic counselors in ASPSA. This steering was most
prevalent among the counselors for the revenue sports of football and men's
basketball.
^This.Originally posted by NENCHeel:
Google the NCAA release and find what Cuse was nailed FOR and you'll probably realize its a soup-to-nuts comparison.
Their Staff members were actively involved in the violations.
There was a booster involved in paying off players/recruits that had access to a $300K slush fund.
Boeheim hired a friendl/AAU Coach to run his Compliance operation and then ignored what he was doing.
Staff members were using player e-mail accounts to send in actual classwork in the players 'names.
Cuse was asked to investigate what happened and told the NCAA they had thoroughly investigated the allegations and found no violations.
Now does anyone care to compare that to what happened at UNC?
No, you obviously didn't. I just posted a quote from the WR that directly contradicts your claim that MBB didn't steer players. So either you're being intentionally obtuse, or you didn't read the report. Either way, you're wrong.Originally posted by gary-7:
Unless they are going to go back and punish UNC for slackness in the Doherty era... how is that "head in the sand"? I did bother to read it....
Again, don't tell me you read the WR and then make an asinine comment like this. Not only did the classes not "originate in the football program" -- whatever the heck that means, since responsibility for course design and content resides within the academic administration -- but the first reported enrollments in the irregular independent studies classes included three men's basketball players and one football player.Originally posted by gary-7:
This thing (as far as athletics are concerned) originated in the football program which perpetrated a willful attempt to cut academic corners.
Originally posted by gary-7:
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions.
The way you're correcting Gary makes it seem as if you want the basketball program to take a hit just so it's not all blamed on football.Originally posted by Raising Heel:
No, you obviously didn't. I just posted a quote from the WR that directly contradicts your claim that MBB didn't steer players. So either you're being intentionally obtuse, or you didn't read the report. Either way, you're wrong.Originally posted by gary-7:
Unless they are going to go back and punish UNC for slackness in the Doherty era... how is that "head in the sand"? I did bother to read it....
Again, don't tell me you read the WR and then make an asinine comment like this. Not only did the classes not "originate in the football program" -- whatever the heck that means, since responsibility for course design and content resides within the academic administration -- but the first reported enrollments in the irregular independent studies classes included three men's basketball players and one football player.Originally posted by gary-7:
This thing (as far as athletics are concerned) originated in the football program which perpetrated a willful attempt to cut academic corners.
Not at all. I'm just correcting his ridiculous notion that the improprieties only occured within the football program. They also occurred in men's basketball, women's basketball, etc.Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
The way you're correcting Gary makes it seem as if you want the basketball program to take a hit just so it's not all blamed on football.
Oh stop it. What I want are fair and equitable rulings based on the best information available. That isn't necessarily the Wainstein Report, and I hope that the interviews the NCAA has been conducting have clarified some of the discrepancies in the report. Everything I've read seems to indicate that men's basketball has less to worry about than football, while the women's basketball team is most at jeopardy because of Boxhill's involvement.Originally posted by gunslingerdick:
Let me ask you, if UNC had the choice of heaping all of this on the football team OR having to split the sanctions with UNC basketball (that could result in the removal of a banner), what would your vote be for?
gary7,Originally posted by gary-7:
Unless they are going to go back and punish UNC for slackness in the Doherty era... how is that "head in the sand"?Originally posted by Raising Heel:
What a basketball-only, head-in-the-sand response. Have you bothered to read the Wainstein report?:Originally posted by gary-7:
There was no effort within the UNC basketball program to cut corners, nor to "steer" players. Only the football program committed actual NCAA infractions.
A good number of these student-athletes were "steered" to the AFAM paper
classes by certain academic counselors in ASPSA. This steering was most
prevalent among the counselors for the revenue sports of football and men's
basketball.
I did bother to read it, and I see nothing in there that smacks of any NCAA violation from Roy's (or Dean's) tenure.
This thing (as far as athletics are concerned) originated in the football program which perpetrated a willful attempt to cut academic corners.
As far as basketball, there's nothing wrong per se with taking some crip courses to maintain a GPA. No one there was trying to facilitate bogus coursework. The problem with the courses was from the department.
Originally posted by PolkCountyBullGator:
gary7,
That guy is a real clown. He wants to police everything said around here.
He's smart and everyone else is dumb.[/B]
If you say so.Originally posted by PolkCountyBullGator:
That guy is a real clown. He wants to police everything said around here.
He's smart and everyone else is dumb.[/B]
CLOSE-CLOSE ties to our Womens Basketball program.Originally posted by simontonlake:
Jan Boxill, implicated in UNC scandal, resigns
I've said for years that schools should sue players and former players who take bribes from agents or boosters. Those players choose to do what is wrong, and almost 100% of the time they skate away while the school and the next round of players pay the price.Originally posted by ecu4:
Need to start prosecuting or fine heavily the subjects in the wrong, including former athletes and administrators if the situations warrant that action. Terminate employees involved, clean them out . Instead athletes that roll on their schools go free, and kids coming in, or already in school pay the price. It's like going across the street and punching your neighbor out, moving away, reporting it to the police years later, and they go arrest the guy who moved in your house and make him do the time.
This post was edited on 3/10 10:27 PM by ecu4
It included questionmable drug testing and enforcement of policies.Originally posted by strummingram:
I dunno what happened at Syracuse, but if they self-imposed the post-season and still got this hit (this fast), then something must have really gone wrong, from an athletics perspective.
I don't think this guarantees anything about UNC, either. The NCAA is actually complicit in the AFAM situation. I don't see anything coming from that. The more time goes by with no outcome, the better.