God and climate change should not be in the same discussion.
They keep warning us...
- Thread starter heelmanwilm
- Start date
Add politics to that too.
I agree. But a certain segment of the population thinks that god should be a part of any and all conversations.
I just don't understand why so many people seem to accept totally at face value - without any level of skepticism or questioning of potential agendas or ulterior motives, this following statement:
"The climate (the global temperature) has been warming rapidly over the last 10, 20, 30 years, at a rate faster / warmer than ever before in human or global history. This is due primarily to human causes, especially the burning of carbon-based fuels. And the United States and our lifestyle is the primary culprit to blame in this man-made, carbon-based warming."
I think addressing whether the above statement - clearly, precisely defined, is better than asking if somebody "believes in climate change". Of course everyone should "believe in climate change". Its changed (gone through major warming and cooling cycles over centuries since the planet was in existence.
I am very skeptical about the impact of human activity on the warming of the planet, beyond normal cycles measured historically. It is an absolute fact that the planet has warmed (and cooled) more significantly in cycles in the past couple centuries - even before carbon fuels were burned at all - than the slight warming measured recently. For instance - have glaciers been receding? For sure! But they were receding just as fast long before the carbon based engine was even an idea.
Do I think we should just put our heads in the sand? Hell no. I want a clean, viable climate for future generations as much as anyone else. I just think as a society, we should be more accurate, precise in what actually can / cannot be measured accurately in terms of global temperature increases, and how do we absolutely accurately determine what causes these changes? (man-made causes vs. the natural cyclical causes experienced since beginning of time).
Doing something drastic like getting rid of all carbon based fuels, before we have a viable alternative (hint: solar and wind are worse for environment than carbon-based)…. ends up being much more damaging to the livelihood and life spans even, of poor people in countries all around the globe.
I wish we were culturally more aware of what we actually do and don't know about (US) man-made warming, outside of normal global climate change cycles.... and what can we actually attribute with a high level of certainty to our human carbon burning activities.
Relying on something being true because X number of people say it.....someone said earlier - at one point most people believed the earth was flat. A large % of people saying they believe something is not in any way scientific.
And if you go to the actual scientific reports, a lot of the language is more theoretical, possibility based instead of100% certainty. A lot of "might, could, may, possibly" language about causes. Truth is nobody knows with certainty whether human activities have even a measurable impact on the environment in comparison to other larger overall climate cycles and natural climate change causes (sun patterns, cloud patterns, etc).
"The climate (the global temperature) has been warming rapidly over the last 10, 20, 30 years, at a rate faster / warmer than ever before in human or global history. This is due primarily to human causes, especially the burning of carbon-based fuels. And the United States and our lifestyle is the primary culprit to blame in this man-made, carbon-based warming."
I think addressing whether the above statement - clearly, precisely defined, is better than asking if somebody "believes in climate change". Of course everyone should "believe in climate change". Its changed (gone through major warming and cooling cycles over centuries since the planet was in existence.
I am very skeptical about the impact of human activity on the warming of the planet, beyond normal cycles measured historically. It is an absolute fact that the planet has warmed (and cooled) more significantly in cycles in the past couple centuries - even before carbon fuels were burned at all - than the slight warming measured recently. For instance - have glaciers been receding? For sure! But they were receding just as fast long before the carbon based engine was even an idea.
Do I think we should just put our heads in the sand? Hell no. I want a clean, viable climate for future generations as much as anyone else. I just think as a society, we should be more accurate, precise in what actually can / cannot be measured accurately in terms of global temperature increases, and how do we absolutely accurately determine what causes these changes? (man-made causes vs. the natural cyclical causes experienced since beginning of time).
Doing something drastic like getting rid of all carbon based fuels, before we have a viable alternative (hint: solar and wind are worse for environment than carbon-based)…. ends up being much more damaging to the livelihood and life spans even, of poor people in countries all around the globe.
I wish we were culturally more aware of what we actually do and don't know about (US) man-made warming, outside of normal global climate change cycles.... and what can we actually attribute with a high level of certainty to our human carbon burning activities.
Relying on something being true because X number of people say it.....someone said earlier - at one point most people believed the earth was flat. A large % of people saying they believe something is not in any way scientific.
And if you go to the actual scientific reports, a lot of the language is more theoretical, possibility based instead of100% certainty. A lot of "might, could, may, possibly" language about causes. Truth is nobody knows with certainty whether human activities have even a measurable impact on the environment in comparison to other larger overall climate cycles and natural climate change causes (sun patterns, cloud patterns, etc).
@heelmanwilm missed a golden opportunity to name this thread "They Keep Warming Us."
Kicking myself
Cool. To each his own. I know I'm not changing any minds here. Not my intent. Not naïve enough to think that is possible on a chat board. Peace out.
I was going to do a parody thread with that title, but have no clue how to poast pics from my phone
I was going to do a parody thread with that title, but have no clue how to poast pics from my phone
Its a pain in the ass and not worth it imo. You gotta get a pic saving app. Download the pic on the app then copy and paste the pics url from the app onto here. The app i was using went belly up and i’ve never bothered trying another.
Got a source on that one? Like, a real scientific one.
I think most rational people (AOC not one of them) don't want to get rid of everything. We want to fund research more heavily for the viable alternative.
The solution isn't to just stop using fuel, it's to create better alternatives. That costs money and it's money I'm willing to spend.
Are you using an android or iPhone?
I recently switched to a Samsung, but had a co yo ple iPhones before and was able to easily copy/paste gifs and jpgs into the rivals forums. With my new phone, I still haven't figured out a way to do it. Argh!
Android for me. All you need to do is copy and past the url of the gif into the little picture icon on here. Rivals has changed something in the past few months and won't accept the url for certain pictures/gifs though. Not sure exactly why.
I've tried that about a million times but all I get is what you see above. I tried to add the link below.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dcWRY1fMmYhiUEYK9
Sorry, I like to get phones that aren't behind the times since I don't upgrade every year. Why buy an iPhone, when the tech is already 1-2 years old? Plus the closed ecosystem of apple is a joke.
Rivals hasn't changed - google images has. Sometimes it won't copy just the gif URL, it copies a whole bunch of image query string info as well. You'll notice when you copy into Rivals, if it's a shorter link where you can actually see the ".gif" at the end, it will work. If you see 1,000 characters, you copied it wrong.
I've started to copy the thumbnail in Google images and not open the actual picture. That's worked for me.
I've been pretty happy with both the iPhone and the Samsung. I've never sucked at apples teat, like some of my former coworkers. In fact, I think the arrogance of some of those people helped drive me away from the iphone recently.
I don't really text that much, so I don't care. That's really a phone company issue though, because they all won't get on board with RCS. My company has switched to RCS, so I get the same notifications that iPhone people get.But...but...green texts.
Given google's reach into our lives, is there a difference between the two?
On the page that hosts the image long press the pic/gif you want, select open in new tab, select and copy url. Be sure the url ends in a media format like .jpg, .gif, etc.
I've tried that about a million times but all I get is what you see above. I tried to add the link below.
https://images.app.goo.gl/dcWRY1fMmYhiUEYK9
@dadika13 and @heelmanwilm
Here is a good scientific source to start with, in my opinion. This site provides so many graphs and papers from scientists around the world showing little to no warming in last few years, or where it is measured as warming, nothing more than has been experienced over centuries before carbon fuel burning. (It is hard to narrow down just which graph or scientific measure to begin with. Some of the dates listing are confusing to me.)
https://notrickszone.com/
Scroll down and see on the right side "200 charts measuring climate change (1)" shows the most recent charts (through 2019).
I think it is important to read the "About" section for this site. It gives the author's perspective as not a climate change denier, but instead a skeptic, not certain of any single theory yet. Here is useful info from the "About (the author)" section from the site:
"I’ve always been a skeptic of the hypothesis mankind is causing catastrophic global warming because it is pumping a few ppm of a trace gas into the atmosphere. I’m not convinced of any one particular position, and so my non-alarmist view is subject to change at any time.
I can recall many extreme weather events occurring back in the 60s and 70s. That’s one reason of many why I think what’s happening today is nothing unusual, hurricanes back then were just as bad or worse than they are today. The data show it. In fact, if the media hadn’t hyped up the climate, most people wouldn’t have noticed any “climate change”. It’s mostly a media-politically manufactured hysteria.
I do think man’s activities are having a modest impact on the climate and environment, but more through land use and poor waste management practices. So far, however, the data show that the forces of nature (solar and oceanic cycles) totally overwhelm anything man does. Man probably has contributed a few tenths of a degree C warming over the past century, but that likely is more connected to the urban heat island effect.
Irresponsible use of capital resources
As Danish economist Prof. Bjorn Lomborg says, the focus of public policy and resources really needs to be on solving real problems that exist today like water pollution, poverty, mal-nutrition, urban squalor, education, tyranny and so on, and not become obsessed with computer-generated catastrophe scenarios that might or might not occur 100 years from now. Climate warming disaster predictions have been made for 30 years, none have come true."
Here is one climate change book by a world-renowned scientist that I admittedly haven't read yet, but I plan to. I think it'd be interesting if others here read it, and shared their thoughts on it.
Amazon product ASIN 1546629114
BTW - I 100% agree with your comments on funding research for viable clean alternatives. I think that has been happening in the capital free market especially in the US - to what level, I'm not sure....
Might want to check your sources.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/notrickszone/
Here is a better source. It even gives you a scientific breakdown if you want instead of just a general overview of each topic.
https://skepticalscience.com/
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