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Which redshirts could blow-up next yr

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blazers

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Oct 8, 2001
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We're redshirting an interesting group of guys.

JT Cauthen
Billy Ross
Jonah Melton
Jake Lawler
Xach Gill
Jeremiah Gemmel
Jordan Tucker
Caleb Rozar
Antwuan Branch
Brian Anderson
Marcus McKethan
Kayne Roberts

The upper half of this list had really good offer sheets recruiting-wise.

(Cotman, Shaw and Malik Robinson aren't redshirting, but also aren't playing much aside from Special Teams, so they could theoretically be in the above list)

Which are looking good?
 
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blazers said:
We're redshirting an interesting group of guys.

Antwuan Branch
JT Cauthen
Marcus McKethan
Billy Ross
Jonah Melton
Brian Anderson
Jordan Tucker
Jake Lawler
Xach Gill
Jeremiah Gemmel
Caleb Rozar

A large majority had pretty good offer lists recruiting-wise.

(Cotman, Shaw and Malik Robinson aren't redshirting, but also aren't playing much aside from Special Teams, so they could theoretically be in the above list)

Which are looking good?
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Given the way things are going with injuries, they will have to play this year at some point.
 
Gill and Lawyer could be game changers for the defense if they can develop by next year. We desperately need to build a solid defensive front. Jordon Riley should also be eligible for a RS right? Thats another DT we could desperately use some productivity out of.

Melton and Ross look like they should be one helluva unit on the O-line as well so hopefully we can shore up some problems in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

Cauthen has a lot of physical potential. If we hang on to Jordyn Adams and they both develop, that could be a helluva WR combo for the next 4 years. That would give us a big time passing threat to compliment Carter and Brown in the running game.

There's a lot of promise for the future if the staff can develop these young guys. We really need a big time QB though. Maybe Jace Ruder can step in next year and take the job as a true freshman if he's the real deal. That could be the beginning of an epic four year run.
 
uncboy10 said:
Gill and Lawyer could be game changers for the defense if they can develop by next year. We desperately need to build a solid defensive front. Jordon Riley should also be eligible for a RS right? Thats another DT we could desperately use some productivity out of.

Melton and Ross look like they should be one helluva unit on the O-line as well so hopefully we can shore up some problems in the trenches on both sides of the ball.

Cauthen has a lot of physical potential. If we hang on to Jordyn Adams and they both develop, that could be a helluva WR combo for the next 4 years. That would give us a big time passing threat to compliment Carter and Brown in the running game.

There's a lot of promise for the future if the staff can develop these young guys. We really need a big time QB though. Maybe Jace Ruder can step in next year and take the job as a true freshman if he's the real deal. That could be the beginning of an epic four year run.
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To get that epic 4 year run, we would also need: a top level RB, a new OC, and considerably more disciplined play on both sides of the ball.
 
WoadBlue said:
To get that epic 4 year run, we would also need: a top level RB, a new OC, and considerably more disciplined play on both sides of the ball.
Click to expand...

Carter looks really good as a freshman, and Jordan brown has two more years after this as well. Which means we really just need one top level back (for depth) to come out of the next two classes anyways.

We need to win football games next year and prove this was a fluke because of all of the injuries. If enough of these young guys develop enough to be major contributors as RS freshmen then we will have an extremely bright future ahead once those guys get a season or two of experience under the belts.

Red shirts aside we need to close out a solid class for 2018 and try to build a monster for 2019. Definitely need to hold on to the 4-star guys and hopefully add a few more. Now that the NCAA crap is over, we should be able to start attracting high level talent when we start winning again.

This has been repeated a million times but Fed needs to find a way to lockdown the state of NC. That would mean a steady stream of 5-star and 4-star talent. Ultimately that's the key to making it to the next level.
 
uncboy10 said:
Carter looks really good as a freshman, and Jordan brown has two more years after this as well. Which means we really just need one top level back (for depth) to come out of the next two classes anyways.

We need to win football games next year and prove this was a fluke because of all of the injuries. If enough of these young guys develop enough to be major contributors as RS freshmen then we will have an extremely bright future ahead once those guys get a season or two of experience under the belts.

Red shirts aside we need to close out a solid class for 2018 and try to build a monster for 2019. Definitely need to hold on to the 4-star guys and hopefully add a few more. Now that the NCAA crap is over, we should be able to start attracting high level talent when we start winning again.

This has been repeated a million times but Fed needs to find a way to lockdown the state of NC. That would mean a steady stream of 5-star and 4-star talent. Ultimately that's the key to making it to the next level.
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No UNC coach is ever going to 'lock down' NC. MooU is a larger school and has a higher % of in-state students and a much larger number of grads living in NC. All that means that unless the Moo coach is a total loser, Moo will get a decent # of top NC players.

Worse for us is the long history of top NC players leaving the state: especially for Clemson, SoCar, Tennessee, VT, and Georgia, but also for schools like FSU, Florida, Notre Dame, etc.

What Carter and Brown both lack is size and real power between the tackles. In every pair, or trio, of RBs we play regularly, one needs to weigh at least 225 lbs. and be able to plow through the middle, like a traditional Wisconsin RB.

I have seen nothing in Fedora that tells me he has RB, and especially larger power-running RB, recruiting as a top priority.
 
WoadBlue said:
No UNC coach is ever going to 'lock down' NC. MooU is a larger school and has a higher % of in-state students and a much larger number of grads living in NC. All that means that unless the Moo coach is a total loser, Moo will get a decent # of top NC players.

Worse for us is the long history of top NC players leaving the state: especially for Clemson, SoCar, Tennessee, VT, and Georgia, but also for schools like FSU, Florida, Notre Dame, etc.

What Carter and Brown both lack is size and real power between the tackles. In every pair, or trio, of RBs we play regularly, one needs to weigh at least 225 lbs. and be able to plow through the middle, like a traditional Wisconsin RB.

I have seen nothing in Fedora that tells me he has RB, and especially larger power-running RB, recruiting as a top priority.
Click to expand...

Ty'Son is 6'0 215
Branch is 225+
Travis Riley was 210 as a true frosh.
Of course Hood was 220+
 
WoadBlue said:
No UNC coach is ever going to 'lock down' NC. MooU is a larger school and has a higher % of in-state students and a much larger number of grads living in NC. All that means that unless the Moo coach is a total loser, Moo will get a decent # of top NC players.

Worse for us is the long history of top NC players leaving the state: especially for Clemson, SoCar, Tennessee, VT, and Georgia, but also for schools like FSU, Florida, Notre Dame, etc.

What Carter and Brown both lack is size and real power between the tackles. In every pair, or trio, of RBs we play regularly, one needs to weigh at least 225 lbs. and be able to plow through the middle, like a traditional Wisconsin RB.

I have seen nothing in Fedora that tells me he has RB, and especially larger power-running RB, recruiting as a top priority.
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By lock down I mean I consistently sign a lot of the high level talent (4 and 5 stars) and at least be high on the list for guys we don't sign. Obviously we can't sign every great player coming out of nc. But we should be able to sign a few five stars and a dozen or more 4 star guys every year.

A power back can be extremely valuable in any offense. I won't argue with you there. But if we have two speed backs who can break one off at any time then you won't catch me complaining. We've had several big power backs under Fed so I think he definitely likes the bigger guys when he can sign them. The problem is everybody wants the RB's who have the size AND speed.
 
So 12 guys are being red-shirted, how many of those do you really think are going to be on the team for that 5th year? I doubt no more than 3 if even that many will so what are we really gaining. We also lose another year so to speak if player gets hurt during their next 4 years as they already red-shirted.
 
heelfan1961 said:
So 12 guys are being red-shirted, how many of those do you really think are going to be on the team for that 5th year? I doubt no more than 3 if even that many will so what are we really gaining. We also lose another year so to speak if player gets hurt during their next 4 years as they already red-shirted.
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A point I have made repeatedly since we signed Trubisky.

This is not 1995. Few top players spend 5 years in college. Many of the very best head to the NFL after 3 seasons in college. Therefore, any signee who appears to have a good shot to make an NFL roster should be played as a true freshman, unless he requests to redshirt (and there is no pressing need at his position) or if he is injured.
 
uncboy10 said:
By lock down I mean I consistently sign a lot of the high level talent (4 and 5 stars) and at least be high on the list for guys we don't sign. Obviously we can't sign every great player coming out of nc. But we should be able to sign a few five stars and a dozen or more 4 star guys every year.

A power back can be extremely valuable in any offense. I won't argue with you there. But if we have two speed backs who can break one off at any time then you won't catch me complaining. We've had several big power backs under Fed so I think he definitely likes the bigger guys when he can sign them. The problem is everybody wants the RB's who have the size AND speed.
Click to expand...
And no top power RB wants to play tiddly winks in Fedora's offense.
 
WoadBlue said:
A point I have made repeatedly since we signed Trubisky.

This is not 1995. Few top players spend 5 years in college. Many of the very best head to the NFL after 3 seasons in college. Therefore, any signee who appears to have a good shot to make an NFL roster should be played as a true freshman, unless he requests to redshirt (and there is no pressing need at his position) or if he is injured.
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You lost me at "signee with good shot to make an NFL roster".

And 3* Linemen and TE just aren't big/strong enough to play as true frosh. So if they play, they only play for a handful of snaps. Is that experience from a few snaps really worth it when it is impossible to predict how good someone will be three yrs and 25 pounds later?

Hatton was not even very strong as a RS Frosh, so redshirting him was the right idea. Nazair was mediocre in a backup role as a RS Frosh, Drennon the same. Nazair would've been pushed around way too much and would've been entirely ineffective, so ineffective that he probably would've just played a few snaps.... again would that extra experience been immensely helpful his second yr in contrast to awesome he would've been if he returned? Seems like a toss-up since you don't know whether or not they're a star. Hatton definitely would better as a gr/sr than he would as a true sr just on size/strength alone.

Crawford, Dunlap, and Riley partly played as true frosh out of necessity but all had tons of size immediately.
 
tarheel0910 said:
You're too obsessed with a recruit's rankings.
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There are some low 3* RBs and a few others below that who can make an NFL roster and be real stars in college. Most of those need the 5 year plan.

But a Zamir White is never going to stay in college for 5 years, unless crippling injury forces him to do so. Nor is he going to want to play for a team that has the QB run as often as the RB.
 
blazers said:
You lost me at "signee with good shot to make an NFL roster".

And 3* Linemen and TE just aren't big/strong enough to play as true frosh. So if they play, they only play for a handful of snaps. Is that experience from a few snaps really worth it when it is impossible to predict how good someone will be three yrs and 25 pounds later?

Hatton was not even very strong as a RS Frosh, so redshirting him was the right idea. Nazair was mediocre in a backup role as a RS Frosh, Drennon the same. Nazair would've been pushed around way too much and would've been entirely ineffective, so ineffective that he probably would've just played a few snaps.... again would that extra experience been immensely helpful his second yr in contrast to awesome he would've been if he returned? Seems like a toss-up since you don't know whether or not they're a star. Hatton definitely would better as a gr/sr than he would as a true sr just on size/strength alone.

Crawford, Dunlap, and Riley partly played as true frosh out of necessity but all had tons of size immediately.
Click to expand...
I've seen plenty of offensive linemen play as true frosh, including some who clearly are not quite ready. Certainly not to start. But if they won't be there for 5 years, it's better to get something out of them for 4. And, their practicing with the 2nd team at least part of the time as true freshmen may make them much better able to start as sophs.
 
WoadBlue said:
I've seen plenty of offensive linemen play as true frosh, including some who clearly are not quite ready. Certainly not to start. But if they won't be there for 5 years, it's better to get something out of them for 4. And, their practicing with the 2nd team at least part of the time as true freshmen may make them much better able to start as sophs.
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It is virtually impossible to judge whether a 3* or 4* true frosh OL will be a high-round NFL candidate after 4 yrs. Heck, even some 5* are hard to predict. Wasn't Kiaro Holts a 5*? QB and OL are the hardest recruits to judge.

If we are pulling in 5*, then your argument is totally legit. Dexter Lawrence is a lock to go early if he wants, and he DEF would've played early. AND he has plenty of size just like crawford, riley, dunlap who played early.
 
WoadBlue said:
There are some low 3* RBs and a few others below that who can make an NFL roster and be real stars in college. Most of those need the 5 year plan.

But a Zamir White is never going to stay in college for 5 years, unless crippling injury forces him to do so. Nor is he going to want to play for a team that has the QB run as often as the RB.
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Our RB's are doing just fine without White. I'll be more than happy to bet you Carter becomes a 1,000 yard back before he leaves (unless he's injured). Not saying it wouldn't have been nice to have White, but contrary to your opinion we've got talent at the RB position. Also, why do you keep bringing up this NFL roster thing like it actually means something? You don't need a roster full of NFL stars to win games in college.
 
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WoadBlue said:
No UNC coach is ever going to 'lock down' NC. MooU is a larger school and has a higher % of in-state students and a much larger number of grads living in NC. All that means that unless the Moo coach is a total loser, Moo will get a decent # of top NC players.

Worse for us is the long history of top NC players leaving the state: especially for Clemson, SoCar, Tennessee, VT, and Georgia, but also for schools like FSU, Florida, Notre Dame, etc.

What Carter and Brown both lack is size and real power between the tackles. In every pair, or trio, of RBs we play regularly, one needs to weigh at least 225 lbs. and be able to plow through the middle, like a traditional Wisconsin RB.

I have seen nothing in Fedora that tells me he has RB, and especially larger power-running RB, recruiting as a top priority.
Click to expand...

I'm sick and tired of losing top recruits to out of state schools. Fedora get off your arse and change things.
 
blazers said:
You lost me at "signee with good shot to make an NFL roster".

And 3* Linemen and TE just aren't big/strong enough to play as true frosh. So if they play, they only play for a handful of snaps. Is that experience from a few snaps really worth it when it is impossible to predict how good someone will be three yrs and 25 pounds later?

Hatton was not even very strong as a RS Frosh, so redshirting him was the right idea. Nazair was mediocre in a backup role as a RS Frosh, Drennon the same. Nazair would've been pushed around way too much and would've been entirely ineffective, so ineffective that he probably would've just played a few snaps.... again would that extra experience been immensely helpful his second yr in contrast to awesome he would've been if he returned? Seems like a toss-up since you don't know whether or not they're a star. Hatton definitely would better as a gr/sr than he would as a true sr just on size/strength alone.

Crawford, Dunlap, and Riley partly played as true frosh out of necessity but all had tons of size immediately.
Click to expand...

So again how many of those 12 do you think will be playing in 4 years? i believe we are red-shirting 8 to 12 guys every year so where are all of these players. BS on these guys aren't ready at all to play as FR. Yes they will get bigger and stronger but teaching, developing and giving them experience is only going to make them better. Fedora's staff seems to do none of that. Not playing them does give him built-in excuses as he then says I dont have enough guys and I have guys with no or limited game experience. I can here it next year for the Oline in regards to Melton, Ross, Mccargo and even Sweet.
 
heelfan1961 said:
So again how many of those 12 do you think will be playing in 4 years? i believe we are red-shirting 8 to 12 guys every year so where are all of these players.
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Regarding that 5th yr you have to factor in the reasons for attrition (aside from early nfl):
grades
medical
xfer
grad xfer
grad and stop playing fball.

The top two have nothing to do with how good they are or whether they should've redshirted or not.

The bottom three do have to do with how good they are, cuz they only occur if the guys are outside the 2-deep. But also not related to whether they redshirt or not.

heelfan1961 said:
BS on these guys aren't ready at all to play as FR. Yes they will get bigger and stronger but teaching, developing and giving them experience is only going to make them better. Fedora's staff seems to do none of that.
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Some are, some aren't, most 3* aren't. Even most 4* lineman could use an extra yr. Big/Strong is more important than experience and the best combo is both, which is most likely from redshirting. Of course it all comes down to the kid. Riley looks ready. Someone like Gill does not.
 
sctarheel30 said:
I'm sick and tired of losing top recruits to out of state schools. Fedora get off your arse and change things.
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The only way to get a better job done is to win consistently. For example, Fedora cannot beat any SEC team. That signals many top NC recruits who are offered by SEC schools that going to UNC is probably not a great idea, not if you want to be part of the best.

If Dax Holliefield goes VT, it will because he thinks Fuente and Bud Foster are a better bet to win the ACC and get to the playoffs than is Larry Fedora.
 
WoadBlue said:
The only way to get a better job done is to win consistently. For example, Fedora cannot beat any SEC team. That signals many top NC recruits who are offered by SEC schools that going to UNC is probably not a great idea, not if you want to be part of the best.

If Dax Holliefield goes VT, it will because he thinks Fuente and Bud Foster are a better bet to win the ACC and get to the playoffs than is Larry Fedora.
Click to expand...

Hopefully Dax wants to be apart of turning things around here.
 
sctarheel30 said:
Hopefully Dax wants to be apart of turning things around here.
Click to expand...
I think yesterday, he would have seen that our D next year can be quite good. And he also would have seen young guys on Offense show that they can make contributions if Fedora will play them.
 
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WoadBlue said:
I think yesterday, he would have seen that our D next year can be quite good. And he also would have seen young guys on Offense show that they can make contributions if Fedora will play them.
Click to expand...
Otherwise stated as - Fed isn't afraid to play young guys if they prove they can execute better than the older guys. I assume you are talking about the young WR who didn't even get to campus til July
 
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