Why are Tar Heel fans so perpetually unhappy?

[MarcRich]

We’re not Alabama, USC, Texas, Michigan or any of the blue blood football programs. So why is it so hard for the fan base to accept small victories and realize that it took Mack 7 years to win at Texas. It’s a long process, it took Harbaugh 7 years to get Michigan rolling, Saban is a special coach in a football centric state. The reality is to compare to the Mack Brown run at Texas, Sam is our Major Applewhite, Drake is our Chris Simms, the next hurdle is finding our Vince Young and Colt McCoy along with building a good defense and special teams

 

[strummingram]

I'm not unhappy. I just don't expect them to win games. There's no unhappiness involved. When they DO win, that's great. But, I never expect them to win. UNC has no defense.

Those comparisons you tried to make are clever, but they're also wishful thinking. Mack Brown is in his 70s. The game has long passed him by. He's still a great football mind, but his best days are long gone.

UNC is a basketball school... and, a true Blueblood. It's not a football school. It never will be a football powerhouse. It might have a season that exceeds expectations every 5 or 10 years, but that's all. Being realistic is healthy... for me, anyway.

 

[blazers]

We’re not Alabama, USC, Texas, Michigan or any of the blue blood football programs. So why is it so hard for the fan base to accept small victories

We're stuck in mediocrity if our D is stuck in the 120's despite recruiting D in the top-25s.

In year 4 were Michigan or Texas defenses ranked in the 120's? Forget bluebloods, how many P5 programs are happy with such a state of one-sided mediocrity?

Striving for better than mediocrity in fball might be dumb, but as a fanbase we're spoiled by decades of hoops and women's soccer dominance coupled by sprinklings of really good fball parts (late 90's D, 2009 D, Fed's O, 2020 O)

and realize that it took Mack 7 years to win at Texas. It’s a long process, it took Harbaugh 7 years to get Michigan rolling, Saban is a special coach in a football centric state.

In year 2 Mich finished AP 3rd nationally and in year 4 finished AP 18th. Yr 5 14th.

Mack's second yr finished 18th nationally which was awesome, but his age and trends defensively are going the wrong direction. There has been regression on D. The O has been great, but it was great under Fedora too despite NCAA sanction impacts on recruiting and roster-limits.

 

[WoadBlue]

We’re not Alabama, USC, Texas, Michigan or any of the blue blood football programs. So why is it so hard for the fan base to accept small victories and realize that it took Mack 7 years to win at Texas. It’s a long process, it took Harbaugh 7 years to get Michigan rolling, Saban is a special coach in a football centric state. The reality is to compare to the Mack Brown run at Texas, Sam is our Major Applewhite, Drake is our Chris Simms, the next hurdle is finding our Vince Young and Colt McCoy along with building a good defense and special teams

So you are satisfied with never being really good? Bama basketball fans who say that they should be happy to win anything at basketball because they are not UNC are booed by almost all other Bama basketball fans.

What do you mean it took Mack 7 years to win at Texas? In his 1st year, Texas won a Major Bowl: the Cotton. In his 4th and 5th years the Longhorn finished 11-2, with another Cotton Bowl W.

What Mack could not do at Texas is dominate the South division, much less the Big 12, because he was often outcoached, and not just by Bob Stoops. Mack could have the top rated Big 12 recruiting class 9 of 10 years and still have Texas finish tied for 2nd in the division. And that's why I doubt that Mack can ever win much of anything important at UNC in his old age. He is no longer 60, much less 50. He's heading right for 75, and anybody with any sense knows that coaches that old almost never win much that is close to Big, and when they do, it is because it was built well before then. Coaches that old all, before long, begin to lose what had been built.

Here is an example: In retrospect, it is clear that FSU under Bobby Bowden began its downturn, from which Bowden could never right the ship, in 2001. I think Bowden was then only 70. And even he, with 14 consecutive teams ranked in the final Top 5, could not keep FSU going at the top level. The longer Bowden remained as HC, the deeper the issues became.

The longer Mack remains as UNC HC, the deeper the issues we have seen over the past 2 seasons will get. There certainly can be individual highlights, some great WS her and there, but the issues will not be solved and the program overall will remain mediocre, or even get bad.

By the way, Sonny Dykes has TCU in the Playoff in his 1st season there.

 

[tarheel0910]

I'm not unhappy. I just don't expect them to win games. There's no unhappiness involved. When they DO win, that's great. But, I never expect them to win. UNC has no defense.

Those comparisons you tried to make are clever, but they're also wishful thinking. Mack Brown is in his 70s. The game has long passed him by. He's still a great football mind, but his best days are long gone.

UNC is a basketball school... and, a true Blueblood. It's not a football school. It never will be a football powerhouse. It might have a season that exceeds expectations every 5 or 10 years, but that's all. Being realistic is healthy... for me, anyway.

Yeah, I think the problem with some fans is that they think it's wrong to have expectations and hope. Every fan hopes UNC football wins a championship. They hope UNC becomes the best team to ever play football. But to have those as expectations and be miserable when it doesn't happen, doesn't make sense. I read somewhere that this program has only had nine seasons where they won at least nine games. NINE in more than 100 years. Why should anyone expect this program to be anything other than mediocre. I really hope we make all the right moves to become a championship team. I'll be disappointed if I think we don't, but to expect history to all of a sudden change is setting yourself up to be miserable.

 

[WoadBlue]

Yeah, I think the problem with some fans is that they think it's wrong to have expectations and hope. Every fan hopes UNC football wins a championship. They hope UNC becomes the best team to ever play football. But to have those as expectations and be miserable when it doesn't happen, doesn't make sense. I read somewhere that this program has only had nine seasons where they won at least nine games. NINE in more than 100 years. Why should anyone expect this program to be anything other than mediocre. I really hope we make all the right moves to become a championship team. I'll be disappointed if I think we don't, but to expect history to all of a sudden change is setting yourself up to be miserable.

The Red Sox have 4 World Series Championships so far in this century. Anybody who kept asserting in 1990 that the Red Sox could do that would have been considered insane by many MLB fans, perhaps the vast majority. And Red Sox fans who kept inssiting such high level winning would come when the team had the right GM would have been labelled someone whose dreams would never come to pass. So why make yourself miserable?

Because the naysayers were wrong. Everything was indeed there for the Red Sox to win it all, and keep doing it, as soon as the right GM was in place.

UNC football can be right in the National Championship hunt as soon as we have the right HC, and the right AD. Mack aint it. And Bubba may not be it.

 

[strummingram]

Yeah, I think the problem with some fans is that they think it's wrong to have expectations and hope. Every fan hopes UNC football wins a championship. They hope UNC becomes the best team to ever play football. But to have those as expectations and be miserable when it doesn't happen, doesn't make sense. I read somewhere that this program has only had nine seasons where they won at least nine games. NINE in more than 100 years. Why should anyone expect this program to be anything other than mediocre. I really hope we make all the right moves to become a championship team. I'll be disappointed if I think we don't, but to expect history to all of a sudden change is setting yourself up to be miserable.

I think it's just total luck when all the parts fall into place at these schools... basketball or football. When it clicks, and it REALLY clicks, then it just maintains itself. Sometimes they come and go, and even the powerhouses will have down-spells. But, eventually, they come back and stay back. But, it has to happen the FIRST TIME and it's gotta be really good. Once it happens, it rejuvenates itself. And, the longer it stays, the more likely it is to remain relevant. UNC has NEVER been a great football program. It's certainly never going to be with Retread Mack. Be happy with what you got.

Will Clemson be as good whenever Dabo leaves? Probably not, but he's not leaving for a LONG time and while he's there, they will own the ACC. Clemson is never going to be worth a damn in basketball...NEVER! It's just how it is. Be glad your school is powerful in one of the sports because very few schools have either one. The people who pay the bills are pleased that their basketball program rules. It would be nice to have both, but it ain't happening.

Alabama might flirt with "greatness" in basketball, but that's as far as it will go. Same with Michigan, Ohio State, and other football powerhouse schools. It won't last. Legacy-level is SO rare that it cannot be overstated just how friggin' rare it is!

 

[strummingram]

The Red Sox have 4 World Series Championships so far in this century. Anybody who kept asserting in 1990 that the Red Sox could do that would have been considered insane by many MLB fans, perhaps the vast majority. And Red Sox fans who kept inssiting such high level winning would come when the team had the right GM would have been labelled someone whose dreams would never come to pass. So why make yourself miserable?

Because the naysayers were wrong. Everything was indeed there for the Red Sox to win it all, and keep doing it, as soon as the right GM was in place.

UNC football can be right in the National Championship hunt as soon as we have the right HC, and the right AD. Mack aint it. And Bubba may not be it.

Apples and oranges. The Red Sox were/are always in contention. They just lose the big one a lot. And, baseball plays 6000 games in one season. Who cares?

 

[70heels1]

I have been a fan since 1962 and ticket holder since freshman year in 1966.
I think we have had maybe 5 or 6 really good teams and no great ones in sixty years. Excuse me if my expectations are not that high. I didn't see any change with the rehiring of Mack Brown since at best he might have six or seven years to coach and then we start over. I am underwhelmed by Bubba Cunningham's coaching picks so far. With most UNC coaches approaching retirement age, I'm concerned for the overall athletic department.

 

[tarheel0910]

The Red Sox have 4 World Series Championships so far in this century. Anybody who kept asserting in 1990 that the Red Sox could do that would have been considered insane by many MLB fans, perhaps the vast majority. And Red Sox fans who kept inssiting such high level winning would come when the team had the right GM would have been labelled someone whose dreams would never come to pass. So why make yourself miserable?

Because the naysayers were wrong. Everything was indeed there for the Red Sox to win it all, and keep doing it, as soon as the right GM was in place.

UNC football can be right in the National Championship hunt as soon as we have the right HC, and the right AD. Mack aint it. And Bubba may not be it.

Well, that's a horrible comparison, because the Sox actually accomplished things before this century. And it's not surprising that you don't understand my post.

 

[tarheel0910]

I am underwhelmed by Bubba Cunningham's coaching picks so far. With most UNC coaches approaching retirement age, I'm concerned for the overall athletic department.

If you are referring to men's basketball and football, then you don't understand what happened with the hiring process. He didn't pick those coaches. He's done a good job with everything that he's actually done, though.

 

[TVJ]

Carolina football has never had a "Dean Smith." I still believe Jim Tatum was headed that way before his unfortunate death. I once told Mack that I had hoped he would stay here and be that coach. (He might have except for some administrative fumbles). It just seems that every time we start up the hill (Dooley, Crum) something comes along to derail us.
I am definitely not "basketball only," so don't flame me, but I do believe that our basketball successes have impacted administrative emphasis on football, as have academic requirements and attitudes.

 

[tarheel0910]

I will say it is crazy that we haven't had at least some success in football. We're at least above average in pretty much every other sport we have. In several of them we are elite and a blue blood. It's almost like our stadium has to be built on an Indian burial ground or something.

 

[strummingram]

I will say it is crazy that we haven't had at least some success in football. We're at least above average in pretty much every other sport we have. In several of them we are elite and a blue blood. It's almost like our stadium has to be built on an Indian burial ground or something.

I think UNC has had "some success." It's rarely-if-ever been a relevant football program. But, it has prodded along in most decades. When I was a kid, Dooley was at the end of his tenure and Crum began. They had success. Back then, to me, it was "Beat NC State" as a main priority. It was about bragging at school. There was no playoffs. And, going to a bowl was different back then, but there was almost always a bowl game. That was all I needed.

Mack Brown sucked majorly for his first 3-4 years! In the 90's, he got them on-track a bit. Then, as soon as he got them competitive, he got the bigger/better offer, he hauled ass. Then, UNC sucked majorly again for years. Davis got them to some bowls, Fedora had that one great Season, Gio's run against State... then Sam Howell was fun to watch. It's nothing MAJOR, but there's "some" success. I just hate it when UNC gets their asses totally railed in bowl games! That's gotten to be far too common.

 

[bluetoe]

what makes me unhappy is the loser mindset that we are 'just a basketball school' and we will never be a football school....as if God commanded 'take one or the other, but don't even think about being great in both'. I've heard that complacent crap for as many years as it has been since 1968, and what makes me unhappy is knowing that there is no valid reason why we shouldn't have a top ten football program. All the elements are there, with the exception of strong admin support and a demanding fan base. All we really have to do is WANT it....and I do.

It's disheartening to think of all the times we've had great players and sometimes great coaches to build on, only to let it slip away as if it was pre-ordained for us to be mediocre.

The admin and much of the faculty hold their nose at the thought of supporting a dirty endeavor like football at the elitist institution they have crafted. They need to understand that UNC really is the university of the people, and not of some self-selected elites. If you imbue excellence in the student and faculty and the University itself, you should exemplify that by imbuing excellence in all things that represent the university....including the football program. In spite of the success of our BB program, it's still football that provides the best platform for putting our best foot forward.

 

[strummingram]

Football (American contact football) is dying a slow death anyway.

I see more "Soccer" being shoved into the American sports psyche than ever before. American Football is being slowly phased-out... in my opinion.

 

[WoadBlue]

Well, that's a horrible comparison, because the Sox actually accomplished things before this century. And it's not surprising that you don't understand my post.

Before 2004, the Red Sox last won the World Series in 1918. Between 1918 and 2004, 86 years, the Red Sox made a total of 4 World Series appearances.

For comparison sake, the Baltimore Orioles were previously the St Louis Browns, who spent their 50 years mostly alternating with the Washington Senators for last place in the American League. Between 1918 and 2004, that Browns/Orioles franchise reached the World Series 7 times and won 3 of them. In 1966, the Orioles were the last of the original 16 teams in the original MLB 2 leagues to win the World Series.

You greatly overestimate how much the Red Sox won in nearly a 100 year period. Only the Cubs were more hapless in MLB during that span.

It's only been 42 years since UNC won there ACC Championship in football. That's less than. half the time between the Reed Sox winning the World Series.

 

[bluetoe]

I hope I go to my reward before soccer becomes a major sport in this country.

 

[tarheel0910]

Before 2004, the Red Sox last won the World Series in 1918. Between 1918 and 2004, 86 years, the Red Sox made a total of 4 World Series appearances.

For comparison sake, the Baltimore Orioles were previously the St Louis Browns, who spent their 50 years mostly alternating with the Washington Senators for last place in the American League. Between 1918 and 2004, that Browns/Orioles franchise reached the World Series 7 times and won 3 of them. In 1966, the Orioles were the last of the original 16 teams in the original MLB 2 leagues to win the World Series.

You greatly overestimate how much the Red Sox won in nearly a 100 year period. Only the Cubs were more hapless in MLB during that span.

It's only been 42 years since UNC won there ACC Championship in football. That's less than. half the time between the Reed Sox winning the World Series.

If you're basing success solely on championships, then you would be correct. But it's pretty stupid to base it only on a championship. The Sox were successful before 2004. That's just a factual statement for people who know about baseball.

UNC has been almost pathetic in those 42 years and weren't much better in most years before that. If you want to try to convince yourself we were or would have been if the mean basketball people didn't get in the way, that's your choice.

 

[tarheel0910]

what makes me unhappy is the loser mindset that we are 'just a basketball school' and we will never be a football school....as if God commanded 'take one or the other, but don't even think about being great in both'. I've heard that complacent crap for as many years as it has been since 1968, and what makes me unhappy is knowing that there is no valid reason why we shouldn't have a top ten football program. All the elements are there, with the exception of strong admin support and a demanding fan base. All we really have to do is WANT it....and I do.

UNC has invested a lot more in football than they have basketball in my lifetime and I've never met a UNC fan who doesn't want to be successful.

 

[tarheel0910]

I think UNC has had "some success." It's rarely-if-ever been a relevant football program. But, it has prodded along in most decades. When I was a kid, Dooley was at the end of his tenure and Crum began. They had success. Back then, to me, it was "Beat NC State" as a main priority. It was about bragging at school. There was no playoffs. And, going to a bowl was different back then, but there was almost always a bowl game. That was all I needed.

Mack Brown sucked majorly for his first 3-4 years! In the 90's, he got them on-track a bit. Then, as soon as he got them competitive, he got the bigger/better offer, he hauled ass. Then, UNC sucked majorly again for years. Davis got them to some bowls, Fedora had that one great Season, Gio's run against State... then Sam Howell was fun to watch. It's nothing MAJOR, but there's "some" success. I just hate it when UNC gets their asses totally railed in bowl games! That's gotten to be far too common.

Let me rephrase to say sustained success. We've never had a long period of success. Especially compared to the other sports.

 

[bluetoe]

UNC has invested a lot more in football than they have basketball in my lifetime and I've never met a UNC fan who doesn't want to be successful.

your mileage may vary, but I've met a ton who said we could never BE successful in football, and that might very well be the majority. Big difference between 'want to' and 'can do'. And a big difference between casually wanting to and not abiding anything less. I want to make a million dollars next year but I'm not so gung-ho about it that I'm going to put forth a balls-out effort in that regard.

 

[blazers]

So why is it so hard for the fan base to accept small victories and realize that it took Mack 7 years to win at Texas.

Also cuz we'd be like a 3 win team without QB heroics. Not only is our D in the 120's, but our QBs are always scrambling for their lives with very little time due to weak OL play.

 

[tarheel0910]

Also cuz we'd be like a 3 win team without QB heroics. Not only is our D in the 120's, but our QBs are always scrambling for their lives with very little time due to weak OL play.

Never understood the argument that we would suck without a good QB. What team wouldn't be worse off with a bad QB? It's a bad argument. Getting Drake and Sam to come here are basically minor miracles by the staff.

 

[midline]

Because UNC could be so much better. For decades I have heard endless analysts of college football talk about how UNC is a sleeping giant in football if they ever get it.together. And let's face facts. UNC can win NCs in soccer, field hockey, track, or whatever irrelevant sport they win one in. But football and men's basketball is the straw that stirs the drink. Basketball, historically good. Football has hadnits.moments in the sun, but never consistent over the years as they should be. Frustrating

 

[blazers]

Never understood the argument that we would suck without a good QB. What team wouldn't be worse off with a bad QB? It's a bad argument. Getting Drake and Sam to come here are basically minor miracles by the staff.

I don't think we suck. So the argument is that right now we're mediocre only because of Drake. There are plenty of mediocre teams without NFL-caliber QBs and and we would NOT be one of them, instead we'd suck donkey. And sucking donkey shouldn't be accepted by our fan base in year 4.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Football (American contact football) is dying a slow death anyway.

I see more "Soccer" being shoved into the American sports psyche than ever before. American Football is being slowly phased-out... in my opinion.

Yeah just go ahead, plug and plant me then. Soccer doesn't do shit for me. Never really watched it and ain't gonna start now.

 

[strummingram]

Yeah just go ahead, plug and plant me then. Soccer doesn't do shit for me. Never really watched it and ain't gonna start now.

Neither am I...but, I see it coming.