So yeah I'm taking back what I said earlier about Adonis Garcia. He sucks; AAAA player.
2016 Atlanta Braves thread
- Thread starter TarHeelNation11
- Start date
Can someone explain to me why Tyrell Jenkins is in the bullpen while some dude named Joel De La Cruz is in the rotation? I don't necessarily believe Jenkins is some stud ace prospect or anything (I have doubts that he's part of our future plans at all), but I'd still like to get a look at him for a few starts or two. I mean, he's our reigning minor league pitcher of the year as a starter; doesn't that warrant a look? He hasn't been good out of the bullpen, but that doesn't give us an accurate gauge of what he can do. I'm just not understanding the Braves' handing of him.
That's now four homers allowed for Folty tonight.
Get what you can for this dude or send him to the bullpen.
Get what you can for this dude or send him to the bullpen.
Didn't watch the game last night, and from the sound of things, it sounds like that's a good thing. Hopefully Folty gets over that crap soon. Still no middle ground with him. When he's on, he's really good, when he's not, he gives up homers by the bunches. We've still yet to see him grind out a game without his best stuff and just keep his team in it.
I still don't get what you see in him. He strung together 3 great starts in a row back in May or whatever, but any Joe Schmoe starting pitcher can do that at some point in a season. Besides those starts, he's been awful. Counting last night, he's conceded 11 HRs in 42 IP. Eleven in forty-two. That's terrible. Let's look at his start last night, 5 IP, 8 hits allowed. Okay, 8 hits in 5.....not good but you could maybe scatter that many and only concede 2-3 runs. Nope, not when four of the five hits are solo HRs. Folty just cannot get the ball in the park. He's basically only got two pitches. He's bullpen or nothing for me. I don't understand the Smoltz comparison at all. Smoltz threw hard, sure, but he could truly pitch not just throw. This is evidenced with how he was still successful later in his career when he had to drop some off his velocity (before he went to the bullpen).
And because Folty gets the Smoltz comparison, he also gets the "wait and see" special treatment because of Smoltz' well-publicized awful start to the '91 (I think) season where he was like 2-10 or something midway through and Bobby stuck with him and he figured it out. Well....Folty has had several starts between this year and last, and he just isn't getting it done. When do you say enough is enough? Oh, and speaking of pitchers, Blair is a trainwreck right now.
Some good news is Jace continues to tear it up, which I LOVE to see. Two more hits last night has his average up to .281.
What I see him is that he has things that you can't teach. You don't just find guys who can throw like him anywhere. His problem is that he doesn't know how to use what he has appropriately. You can teach that though, and he can learn those things. I don't compare Folty to Smoltz, I compare him more to A.J. Burnett. When Burnett first came up, he was just like Folty. Live arm, nasty breaking stuff, but it took him a good while to figure out how to use it, and he got knocked around until it finally got in his head that needed to learn how to pitch and not just throw whatever comes to mind.
A lot of Folty's homers come with two strikes. That's not an issue with stuff, that's just a lack of experience and pitching knowledge...things that are taught and learned with experience. I'm fine with that as long as he learns. When is enough, enough, you ask? When we're a contender and he's still up there serving up homers on a silver platter. We're not a contender and winning games obviously isn't the most important thing in the world right now, so the best thing for him is to remain in the rotation and let him learn.
I hear you. I'm fine being patient, but I'd just like to see SOME type of progress or "wow" factor to give me hope he's going to improve. Wisler has shown enough to give us hope for his future. Folty really hasn't. He had a good stretch last season and a short good stretch this season and that's it. He also cannot stay healthy either.
At least we signed Maitan in the international pool. I hope he ends up being as good as advertised.
I hear you too, believe me. I get frustrated with him as well. I guess it's just that the Braves were never really known for real power arms in the rotation except for Smoltz, so with an arm like Folty's around, it has me excited even though we haven't really seen too many positive results yet. Plus, it's a lost season, so if Folty was up here serving up homers during a pennant race, I would probably hate him. Like I said though, he has what you can't teach, and if he can figure it out and stay healthy, I think he can be really, really good. The injuries are a concern, but hell, with as many surgeries going on with pitchers' arms these days, injuries are pretty much a concern for everyone.
I heard about Maitan and hope he pans out, but I have a hard time getting excited about a 16-year-old. It's kind of like when you hear about Calipari out talking to 13 year old kids - are they really that excited about them? I'm glad we signed the dude and everything, but he has a looooong way to go.
Oh yeah, I forgot to address this, but I'm worried about Blair. That dude is a straight up headcase right now. That was a classic case of bringing a guy up too soon and ruining his confidence. I don't think he believes he can do anything right now.
At least your guys that suck don't get paid much. David Price (yes, the one that is getting paid $31M/year for the next 7 years) gave up a homer to Shin Soo Choo on the first pitch of the game for the second straight start (the first time in Texas, and last night in Boston). The guy can't get out of his own way in the 1st inning and puts the team in a hole from the get-go. Couple that with the fact that Craig Kimbrel (making $13M/year) came into a 1 run game and gave up 4 hits and 4 runs (culminating in a 3 run bomb) without recording an out - and you can see my frustration.
How's Kimbrel doing over there anyway, aside from that performance? I saw he got selected to the All-Star team, but I don't know if that's because he's been really good or because he got selected because not many AL relievers deserve it. I haven't been following other teams as much as I normally do.
Yeah I meant to respond to this the other day when you posted something similar. Julio Teheran, he of the incessant trade talks and an All-Star, is making $3.3 million lol.
My pipe dream is for Kimbrel to suck (or sandbag?) for the Red Sox and somehow find his way back to Atlanta in ~2 seasons with Boston eating most of his contract
He's been decent in save situations, but if he comes into a tie game, or a game where we're down a run or two (like last night) where we need him to keep us in it to give our offense a shot - he completely botches it. Walking the leadoff hitter is a specialty of his, which drives me crazy. He's got 17 saves on the season which is good, and a 1.06 WHIP which is solid, but a 3.66 ERA which from your closer I'd expect to be better than that (and that obviously doesn't count the runs he's given up on inherited runners, which he's done a decent amount this year). He was a manager selection to the AS team I believe.
Ya, that's awesome. See the red sox strategy is to scout out guys like that... wait til they're 30... and then offer them a monstrous 7 year deal so they no longer have any incentive to perform well or even stay in shape (see: Price, Hanley Ramirez, Pablo Sandoval - and going a little farther back: Carl Crawford, John Lackey, JD Drew, etc.). Then when they have studs they ridiculously lowball them even when they're willing to give a hometown discount (see: Jon Lester).
My pipe dream is for Kimbrel to suck (or sandbag?) for the Red Sox and somehow find his way back to Atlanta in ~2 seasons with Boston eating most of his contract
I think we only have him on a 3 year deal. I think he's better suited to pitching in the national league where he can afford to walk a good hitter or two and get to the bottom of the lineups where he can just blow guys away. Less holes in the lineups in the AL - and I'm not sure how well he's taking to a major market where the sports media guys will rip him a new one after every botched appearance.
Wow. I knew Teheran had a favorable contract, but holy crap, I didn't realize it was THAT good. I guess that was one thing Wren did right.
Definitely not the same Kimbrel that Braves fans enjoyed watching. IIRC, he showed decline in San Diego as well, so I'm hoping he's not wearing down. That's why big contracts to closers scare me. Kimbrel seemed like a bad MF'er, so I figured he could easily handle closing games in Boston.
Well.....I don't know if "definitely not the same Kimbrel" is entirely correct. Kimbrel did walk the leadoff hitter too much, especially in his last year here. I remember several times he created a hairy situation for himself (2 on with only a one-run lead or two-run lead) that he eventually got himself out of.
Good point Hark on him adjusting to the Boston market. After all, he's a small-town kid from Alabama. In addition, the Atlanta market is notorious for having "friendly media" who will never put pressure on a struggling coach or player. Basically, if you're a fan favorite, the media nor the fans in Atlanta will ever say something bad about you. Freddie Freeman could strike out 30 times in a row and make 10 errors at first base, and the local media and fans would still kiss his ass and say he's the best player in the National League (LOL).
I got a little action on the Braves over today (9.5). Needed to have something to follow while getting through the back half of the work day.
Here's something we can all root for: Hopefully the Braves offense gets after Hellickson
And if not... hopefully the Phillies offense gets after Jenkins.
Here's something we can all root for: Hopefully the Braves offense gets after Hellickson
And if not... hopefully the Phillies offense gets after Jenkins.
Yep, I like Jenkins but there's a decent chance Jenkins surrenders four or five of that 9.5 by himself. I will say that's a pretty big number though. I would've taken the under. What was the pay out for the O/U, -110?
I thought it was high too - which is actually why I bet it. Sort of the whole "someone must know something" deal. Like when you see a college football O/U in the 80's, I almost always take the over because it's probably going to be one of those Texas Tech v. Baylor shootouts where both teams go over 50, but the oddsmakers can't justify making a 100 O/U.
The over was Even, and the under -120 - which is another reason I liked the over, didn't have to pay the juice.
Glad to see Jenkins finally get an opportunity that's long overdue. I hope he makes the most of it and sticks.
BTW, can FOX Sports replace the Atlanta Braves with the Mississippi Braves on TV until Swanson and Albies get called up? That's the team I want to watch.
Ya... looking like I'm gonna need extras with a couple innings of scoring and getting re-tied, haha.
I have the unders in the the Mets and Twins games so if those stay where they're at I'll be happy.
I really, really hope Vizcaino gets dealt before the deadline. He blows saves all the time. I don't get his hype.
Of course, his rhythm could just be fugged up since he gets so few opportunities.
Of course, his rhythm could just be fugged up since he gets so few opportunities.
As you can tell, I'm pretty down on our current pitchers on the big league roster, save for Teheran and Wisler.
I like Viz, but I never mind trading closers when your team sucks. Dude has nasty stuff, but he's definitely been getting knocked around lately. He might be better suited as an 8th inning guy though. I don't know, sometimes it just seems like mentally, he doesn't have what it takes to be a closer.
He gave up the damage in the 8th inning today. (I incorrectly phrased it as a "blown save.")
So I take it your thoughts of Teheran at the beginning of the year have completely been wiped out now? You for keeping him long term?
I'm for keeping him because none of our other young SP prospects are even remotely close to "#2 or #3 starter" level, except for Wisler. Folty is still a mystery, Blair is a wreck right now, Sims may never leave the minors at this rate, T. Jenkins.....I don't know what the heck we are doing with him, etc. etc. We have no one that is "staple in the rotation" ready except for Teheran, so dealing him now would be a disaster for our short-term competitiveness. Plus his contract is so friendly through 2020 that we hold all the power.
If Folty and Blair were showing the same promise that Wisler is showing, then I'd say deal Teheran as part of a package to Boston or Houston or someone and try to get a huge haul back. But as it stands, there's no way we can justify dealing Julio.
Hey @Hark_The_Sound_2010 feel free to give us Benintendi and Mookie Betts for Teheran, Vizcaino, and Inciarte
And before you scoff at that trade, truly evaluate it. You'd be getting a scary-good #3 (#2?) starter for NOTHING, a fireballer setup guy for the 8th inning to strengthen your bullpen, and one of the best defensive OF in the majors in Inciarte.
Or you can give us Jackie Bradley, Jr. instead of Betts. I'm not picky.
And before you scoff at that trade, truly evaluate it. You'd be getting a scary-good #3 (#2?) starter for NOTHING, a fireballer setup guy for the 8th inning to strengthen your bullpen, and one of the best defensive OF in the majors in Inciarte.
Or you can give us Jackie Bradley, Jr. instead of Betts. I'm not picky.
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Oh by the way, I'm over my "keep Markakis" kick. Dude is washed up and his arm is shot. Cut bait.
Deal - if you take JBJ instead of Mookie. We'd be keeping our two best young big leaguers (Bogaerts and Betts) and our best prospect (Yoan Moncada). Our current set-up guy is old and now sucks (Koji Uehara) so Viz would be useful, and that Teheran deal would be awesome.
By the way, you were correct in calling it a blown save. Box score (with the "B" next to Vizcaino's name) and the wiki definition of a save (and a blown save) below.
http://scores.espn.go.com/mlb/boxscore?gameId=360706122
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Save_(baseball)
Thanks. I thought it might have been, but I don't always remember the rule when the guy blows it in an inning that isn't the 9th. I'm assuming the only time you can blow a save in the 8th is if you're the away team.
Haha you're accepting the deal a bit too easily, so maybe I'd try to also get like a Moncanda or someone, but you get my drift. That's the haul the Braves should look to be getting. And it seems like Boston is Atlanta's best dance partner to make a Teheran trade before the deadline.
I've been reading the Scout.com Braves forum a bunch the past few days (though there isn't as much activity as I'd like on there) and I'm like obsessed with knowing what the heck the Braves' front office is thinking about the future. The thing I've gathered is all of our truly elite (potential) talent is in A ball right now, meaning they're 3-4-5 years away. So, that being said......if the Braves FO thinks we won't be able to be competitive until 2019/2020, it makes sense for us to continue the rebuild and ship out Freeman and Teheran and just let all the young kids work their way through the minors for the next 3-4 seasons. On the other hand, if we think we can be competitive by 2018 (2017 seems to be accepted as a formality that we'll suck again), it makes more sense to keep Teheran and Freeman and try to start to acquire MLB-ready-now talent through trades and free agency.
I don't know, this coming offseason is going to be interesting. If Swanson and Albies are as dynamic as they're showing in the minors right now and if we plug in one more pitcher and another bat, we might be pretty good next year. It's going to require guys like Folty and Blair figuring some stuff out and some other guys stepping up, but it could happen, I guess.
If we keep Inciarte and Smith in the outfield and replace Markakis with someone who isn't declining and patch up 3B (Prado, maybe?), our team won't be half bad. With so much speed, it could shape up to be a pretty exciting team to watch. I'm not going to get into who we trade and everything because I really have no idea, and I'm not even sure how much money we'll have to spend in the offseason. I'm just spewing crap at this point.
Rotation:
Teheran
[someone brought in]
Wisler
Folty
Blair
Lineup (this is NOT the batting order):
OF - Inciarte
OF - Smith
OF - [another bat brought in hopefully with some pop]
1B - Freeman
2B - Albies
3B - [another replacement, just saying Prado for the sake of it]
SS - Swanson
C - Flowers, I guess
If some guys pan out, figure it out, and step up, that's not awful. I'm not saying playoffs, but it's an interesting team.
I'm not gonna lie, I'm really hoping we use Inciarte as part of a trade package. I don't think he's a good enough player for us to keep as a starter. He's hitting .231, doesn't hit for power (1 HR this season and even last year in his best year, he only hit 6), and he really doesn't make his speed translate into XBH, especially triples (only 5 last season, currently 3 this season). He's a smaller, thinner, poor man's Jason Heyward.....great defense, great speed, no HR power and marginal XBH power.
We need power bats in our outfield. I don't think Inciarte is a fit.
I wouldn't be opposed to that. I don't think he's a .231 hitter though (he's better than that), but he and Smith do a lot of the same things, so I don't think it makes much sense to have them both. I'd like power on both corners of the outfield as well with Smith in center. On the other hand, I like speed, and having both he and Smith along with Swanson and Albies is intriguing to me. I'm fine either way, really, but if he stays, he needs to be hitting up there around .300 for it to work.
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