A little Xmas cheer -- Things can be better....

[gary-7]

Just a reminder that the dysfunction we've seen recently does NOT have to be that way.
Please watch this clip and contrast this with much of what we've seen since in your more recent memory banks:

1. The offense was much more "vertical", i.e. seeking to create angles TOWARD the basket.
2. We were at least threatening the post (although we still could've used more traditional entries)
3. Wash was looking to score at different levels, obviously being encouraged to do so, and did
4. Eliot had available passing angles that, again, were more often "vertical", as opposed to the "horizontal" actions that have hindered us since
5. Seth had a field-day, Wash had 17 and 6, and Eliot had 13 dimes. Why? The ball was not "sticking" and there was precious less dribbling than we've seen since. Most notably, there was a refreshing (in retrospect) lack of the horizontal arc dribble action and lateral push-out passes that have been the source of the lion's share of our recent Turnover increase.

Keep in mind that Memphis is a quality long and athletic team, with wins over UConn, MIchSt and Clemson, so don't downplay the opponent.
So... what has changed? WIth the full caveat that subsequent opponents had the luxury of scouting us, most of the issues I have seen have been self-inflicted from a counterproductive change in APPROACH.

Here's where it gets uncomfortable. I cringe reading posts that diss RJ, but it is a fair point that yes, we would in all likelihood be in a better place right now without him coming back. Again, I do NOT blame RJ --- he is a terriific player --- I blame the fact that his return to the lineup triggered a (counterproductive) regress in our offensive aproach.

OK, some of that ball-stopping is on him, but it also on his teammates for deferring too much --- I'm sure y'all have noticed that our off-ball movement slows (there's an obvious expectation that he's gonna shoot) --- but I also blame the staff because we are running WAY too many horizontal actions to get him the rock and those are completely getting in the way of the vertical game you saw at Memphis. Defenses are thus loading up to "push" us even further upward and outward along the perimeter arc I described in the last "stuff" post.

Bottom line is, when I preach "inside-out", that is NOT just a cliche. 1) Defenses have a lot harder time being aggressive up top when they have to worry about the rim behind them, and 2) they have a lot harder time pushing out when the attack angles are sharp inside to the rack. Once again, as Dean taught us, it's ultimately about Applied Geometry --- and the particular Xs-and-Os should be directed at accomplishing that.

Moreover, our rim threat cannot be just from drives. We have to run thru Bigs as well, and that starts with restoring the Secondary's post (rim-run/dive) action. Beyond that, RJ needs to be "part" of the scheme --- not the "feature" of the scheme. If we can adjust that, then the ball will move better, and his efficiency will actually benefit with less ball-domination.

Finally, some of the takes I've read here recently frankly make my head hurt. It's not about not having the players --- it's about their best usage. Our flawed post-Memphis approach is also responsible for our maddening slow starts, but remember also that UNC is currently #1 in NCAA D1 in 2nd half points... OK --- that speaks to our guys' fire-power and the ability of the staff to adjust at halftime --- but my point is that there needs to be a major approach reset to obviate the need for some of that halftime damage-control in the first place...

BTW, here are a couple of more isolated clips from the above:

 

[DSouthr]

OK, so I have not yet read this thread gary, will after I write this. It is maybe the thread title I want to use because there has been something I want to express but feel like I have been replying more to what has gone wrong than to what could go right. I am not nearly as negative of this program as I may seem to be, I am disappointed because I do feel this team can be so much better than what we have seen.

I believe I have consistently shared that I think this is a top 20-25 or so level team, I do think we have have a nice run thru the ACC, I feel good about our chances vs any ACC team outside of duke. I do think we get knocked off before the final game in the ACCT and if we progress past the 2nd round in the ACCT it will be because we get a great draw that allows us to match up better. For what we hve to work with I do think that will be a solid season, not UNC standard but this isn't our old UNC type of team either. So it isn't all doom and gloom for me, I for sure do have concerns that have grown since this season began and for now I think that is the real story to tell. But ya know what, we do have a couple freshmen that can and seem to be changing the game for us and when the game changers change the game who knows what happens, like Brady Manek.

Some folks seem to feel Tyson is a game changer, sorry but I don't, I do very strong feel Jalen could be. I see one aspect that just has really hurt us this season, big men stepping out for mid range and trey jumpers. Last game, the UCLA big man gets back to back step in jumpers, vs Bama those big men hitting jumpers. That is so important because they don't just drag a defender away from the paint, they drag a big man away from rebounding position and they open driving lanes, is a 2fer!~ LOL In my core I believe Jalen can give us that, it has to be awakened, he has to know that is expected from him but for now he is treated like an after thought, MOVE HIM TO THE 4 or INVERT him and JWit!.

 

[alabamaheel]

Gary we’ve been measured and weighed. Pretty simple imo. A lot has changed not just RJ “coming back”. He missed one game. Makes since that some is definitely on him for over dribbling but the literal difference in the whole game you posted was three or so made deep balls by the heels. Stats and film prove it. EC making 2-3, Seth making 3-5, and wash making 2-2 is on them in a good way of course, until it comes to when they can’t shoot???? We’ve been scouted as you mentioned. Simple to see what we lack. You can literally watch Memphis stay at home with their man and not help off much. The floor was wide open. Why not now? Hd didn’t change. RJ didn’t change everything they did in that game. Coaches aren’t stupid, they watch film more than anything. I know you know that. As you wrote, the change is approach, but not on our side. It needs to be by our coaching staff.

 

[dtodd4475]

Gary we’ve been measured and weighed. Pretty simple imo. A lot has changed not just RJ “coming back”. He missed one game. Makes since that some is definitely on him for over dribbling but the literal difference in the whole game you posted was three or so made deep balls by the heels. Stats and film prove it. EC making 2-3, Seth making 3-5, and wash making 2-2 is on them in a good way of course, until it comes to when they can’t shoot???? We’ve been scouted as you mentioned. Simple to see what we lack. You can literally watch Memphis stay at home with their man and not help off much. The floor was wide open. Why not now? Hd didn’t change. RJ didn’t change everything they did in that game. Coaches aren’t stupid, they watch film more than anything. I know you know that. As you wrote, the change is approach, but not on our side. It needs to be by our coaching staff.

Also, that was a scrimmage game. Coaches are going to play much more vanilla defense. Like an NFL preseason game, they are getting work in against a live opponent, but not scheming as they would in a regular season contest against that team.

 

[Archer2]

The common consensus is that our staff is not maximizing the specific, granted somewhat limited, abilities of our players. I find it hard to see how people could argue otherwise. Unless the staff can devise a scheme that will generate consistently better shot attempts, we are going to struggle offensively. They have a master’s blueprint for offensive and defensive efficiency but Hubert seems to have largely abandoned the basics of said blueprint which made UNC so successful for six decades. It’s going to cost him his job. That would be a shame because he’s a good guy, just bull-headed.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Gary, have teams, since this game, learned how to keep us from going "vertical"? Seems that since maybe the Auburn game, teams are playing us the same way defensively to prevent going vertical offensively and we have really adjusted well to that. I'm just thinking out loud with my coffee yet. I watched some older games like 2017 vs Kentucky and Gonzaga over the weekend. This offense needs to go thru the post, even if the post player doesn't score or attempt a basket, the post has to touch it!. Great post also!

 

[gary-7]

Gary we’ve been measured and weighed. Pretty simple imo. A lot has changed not just RJ “coming back”. He missed one game. Makes since that some is definitely on him for over dribbling but the literal difference in the whole game you posted was three or so made deep balls by the heels. Stats and film prove it. EC making 2-3, Seth making 3-5, and wash making 2-2 is on them in a good way of course, until it comes to when they can’t shoot???? We’ve been scouted as you mentioned. Simple to see what we lack. You can literally watch Memphis stay at home with their man and not help off much. The floor was wide open. Why not now? Hd didn’t change. RJ didn’t change everything they did in that game. Coaches aren’t stupid, they watch film more than anything. I know you know that. As you wrote, the change is approach, but not on our side. It needs to be by our coaching staff.

Not sure where you're going with all that, but I would suggest to look at the difference in the quality of looks since then and why. Yes, our shooting has fallen off, but it's more than about just missing shots --- it's about what we're getting.

You are correct that what we saw from Memphis was based on last season's scouting, i.e., they did not respect the 3 pt threat from EC, Seth and Wash and yes, we made em pay. HOWEVER, another reason we got so many good 3 looks was we were attacking the RIM off both the pass and bounce. In other words, Memphis had to pick their poison.

Since RJ returned, opponents have blitzed him on the perimeter. OK, the sound way to counter that is to say "You wanna deny RJ? Then we'll just play 4-on-4 toward the basket and let EC go to work with more space for vertical action. So, good luck with defending that, bitches."

But NO-O-O ($1 to John Belushi)... instead we started running all these gawdawful horizontal screen actions to free RJ --- and Lord knows we've seen that ad nauseam. All that accomplishes is to waste shot-clock and make us an EASY SCOUT. As I said, opponents just take advantage by pushing us further and further out, and with the perimeter defenses thus expanded, it makes it more difficult to get any clean push-out passes on drives as there are always hands in passing lanes and helping hands to reach in on our Guards coming across the key trying to get downhill, ergo the TO increase.

Moreover, there's no risk/reward for defenses, as we've turned JWash into an inert screener/handoff guy --- in stark contrast to what he was at Memphis. Wash didn't suddenly turn into a pumpkin --- he is simply not being utilized properly... period.

Sure, you can say (as I have as well) that just making a decent pct of 3s wins us some more games so far --- but when you're relying on hero-ball instead of relying on sound ball and player movement, and/or surround-ball instead of inside-out, welp, the percentages will catch up to you. Just so happens it's been catching up to us all damn season.

 

[gary-7]

Also, that was a scrimmage game. Coaches are going to play much more vanilla defense. Like an NFL preseason game, they are getting work in against a live opponent, but not scheming as they would in a regular season contest against that team.

That in no shape nor form mitigates my point. Good grief.

 

[gary-7]

Gary, have teams, since this game, learned how to keep us from going "vertical"? Seems that since maybe the Auburn game, teams are playing us the same way defensively to prevent going vertical offensively and we have really adjusted well to that. I'm just thinking out loud with my coffee yet. I watched some older games like 2017 vs Kentucky and Gonzaga over the weekend. This offense needs to go thru the post, even if the post player doesn't score or attempt a basket, the post has to touch it!. Great post also!

Good question, and yes, the main scouting adjustment I've noticed vis-a-vis vertical is against our PnR action off high/medium ball-screens. I'm sure you've noticed that opponents have pretty obviously been drilled on "opening up" to the roller and anticipating the pass. I'm sure that was Point #1 coaches got from scouting that Memphis video, and it has shown --- fewer completed PnR passes, more deflections,. etc.

But as you correctly said, we NEED to run thru the post one way or another --- even if it doesn't immediately get a shot or score --- and what IS available are basic entry passes.

With Wash and Lubin being guarded straight man-on with little/no fronting and with defenses pushing out as described, there has been space to make that pass pretty consistently. I would be pounding on our guys in practice about that, BTW, as we are missing that look during the few times it's been there.

But yes. we could use flashes, dive-posts off screens, Flex-cut action or even old-school T-Game to the blocks to get the Big available and emphasize the Bigs working and posting like they f***ing mean it, and then rewarding them when they do.

 

[NathanFielder]

Some folks seem to feel Tyson is a game changer, sorry but I don't, I do very strong feel Jalen could be. I see one aspect that just has really hurt us this season, big men stepping out for mid range and trey jumpers. Last game, the UCLA big man gets back to back step in jumpers, vs Bama those big men hitting jumpers. That is so important because they don't just drag a defender away from the paint, they drag a big man away from rebounding position and they open driving lanes, is a 2fer!~ LOL In my core I believe Jalen can give us that, it has to be awakened, he has to know that is expected from him but for now he is treated like an after thought, MOVE HIM TO THE 4 or INVERT him and JWit!.

I don't think either Tyson or Jalen are all that good. I don't think Tyson can really impact games on the stat sheet at this level. And it's year 3 for Washington. If he isn't confident enough to knock down or even take open shots... Idk. Maybe the coach can get more out of him but if you're a role player, it's really important for you to take advantage of the opportunities you have presented to you. That's why it isn't always easy being a role player and those who can flourish there shouldn't be taken for granted.

So, again, I don't think Tyson or Jalen are all that good. But I think Tyson is more important to this team than Jalen is. I just feel that there was a hope that Tyson's shooting would be a weapon this season. I don't think it will ever get there. But hell, if he shoots it well against the worst teams in the ACC, then that puts something on tape the next game where the coach needs to gameplan for it. It might be a reach, but Todd Golden specifically said he was scouting for Tyson (and RJ) after Tyson has his big game against LaSalle the game before. To me, that could matter even in ACC play.

Not sure if this part was directed at me because I honestly don't think anyone here thinks Tyson is a game changer. I had hopes for that in the preseason but that quickly dissipated and honestly, so did my expectations for this team.

If Jalen can figure out his shot and give some more production, there's still the gaping problem that this team has 4 rotational bigs who can all be absolutely exploited and targeted defensively. So I can't put any trust of belief in any of the bigs. To me, you hope going into the game that one of the bigs steps up and gives you good minutes when they're in there. Then whichever big gets crunchtime minutes comes up with a timely offensive rebound, a timely block, a timely charge drawn (has any of our bigs drawn a charge this season?). An individual important play in crunch time. At least that's my expectation for them.

And sorry (to Gary) but I'm not going to take a preseason game all that seriously. Even if the coaches said they took it really seriously, I don't really care. It's 10+ games after that. This team to a large degree is what it is. For me, the solutions aren't really on this roster if we're looking to be a serious team. It's a fringe top 25 team that can play with anyone, but it needs to be a ton of things for that to happen.

IMO, they're not good enough defensively to simply beat teams with 2s. So I do think it's absolutely vital that they shoot it more efficiently from 3. If that means getting the bigs more involved in their offense, then great. I just don't see a skilled group of bigs on this roster. I think the design needs to be more for the guards to live in the paint. But they're really small guards so do they have that in them? It's a limited roster if they're not shooting it well. And from the looks of it, it's a limited coaching staff too.

 

[notashelbyfan]

So in other words our coachs are not very good.

You can't say they are but they are not doing it because a good coach would be doing what needed to be done to win and we are not.

Im done with this staff, fire the whole lot of them and move on to a real coaching search and hire, and get back to the Carolina winning ways.

 

[dtodd4475]

That in no shape nor form mitigates my point. Good grief.

It is not intended to address your preference for the offensive attack mode. It is intended to point out that the dee will allow you to do things in a scrimmage that they will scheme against allowing you to do in a actual game.

 

[gary-7]

So in other words our coachs are not very good.

You can't say they are but they are not doing it because a good coach would be doing what needed to be done to win and we are not.

Im done with this staff, fire the whole lot of them and move on to a real coaching search and hire, and get back to the Carolina winning ways.

That is not what I said.

 

[gary-7]

It is not intended to address your preference for the offensive attack mode. It is intended to point out that the dee will allow you to do things in a scrimmage that they will scheme against allowing you to do in a actual game.

It wasn't a scrimmage. It was an exhibition. There's a big difference.

 

[notashelbyfan]

That is not what I said.

I know but when everything you said was facts and I truly believe that, and the people that control what they play cant see it then we have a problem.

 

[gary-7]

I know but when everything you said was facts and I truly believe that, and the people that control what they play cant see it then we have a problem.

What I am saying is, in aggregate, the staff is taking some less-than-optimal approaches. Some very good coaches have done that at times during their respective careers. The ultimate tell will be whether or not they recognize and adjust.

 

[dtodd4475]

It wasn't a scrimmage. It was an exhibition. There's a big difference.

Semantics to me. It is a practice game that does not count. People get to watch, and it raises money. You don't scheme or show too much, keep it basic. NFL/NBA pre season level. Get work in, very vanilla game plans.

 

[Archer2]

What I am saying is, in aggregate, the staff is taking some less-than-optimal approaches. Some very good coaches have done that at times during their respective careers. The ultimate tell will be whether or not they recognize and adjust.

Your last sentence says it all IMO. It’s looking more and more like they won’t. I truly wonder if a guy who is as nice as Hubert can be an effective coach in today’s mercenaries for hire college game.