A nice little piece of perspective...

[gary-7]

...amid the daunting battles we've faced on the recruiting front recently, hearing kids like Garrison Brooks and Sterling Manley state up front in interviews that UNC is their "dream school" --- when neither is even from the ACC area --- is not a small thing.

And if Roy keeps doing what he's doing and Carolina keeps being Carolina, that cachet will recover from the brief NCAA rumor-taint and bodes well for the future.

 

[dadika13]

From a different perspective on this...yeah, it's great that guys like Brooks/Manley are saying that but it wasn't long ago that the very top level kids were saying that. They haven't in a few years it seems. That's what is frustrating.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Sounds like you're both right.

Plenty of reasons for the lack of top players to not list UNC as their dream school and it may be some time before it happens again.

As discussed a few weeks ago, there are some fans who want UNC/Roy to do 'anything' to get top players even if that means altering the current culture /ethos and style of the program.

The other camp prefers to remain patient for top players who value the program for what it is and choose to play for Roy.

My belief is that Roy will turn the recruiting around through hard work, results on the court and no stinking scandal to deal with... And he won't have to change the program or sell his soul along the way.

Might take another year or two, but I'm still under 50, so I reckon I'll see it.

 

[Bur-Heel]

Might take another year or two, but I'm still under 50, so I reckon I'll see it.

Yeah..but Roy ain't getting no younger!!

 

[UNC&ME]

if you mean the top players..OADs..dream on!..the NBA is giving away millions to role players..why leave the money on the table?..College basketball is only amateur sports for players..coaches, schools, NCAA and corporations paid millions each year..nothing last forever

 

[gary-7]

Sounds like you're both right.

Plenty of reasons for the lack of top players to not list UNC as their dream school and it may be some time before it happens again.

As discussed a few weeks ago, there are some fans who want UNC/Roy to do 'anything' to get top players even if that means altering the current culture /ethos and style of the program.

The other camp prefers to remain patient for top players who value the program for what it is and choose to play for Roy.

My belief is that Roy will turn the recruiting around through hard work, results on the court and no stinking scandal to deal with... And he won't have to change the program or sell his soul along the way.

Might take another year or two, but I'm still under 50, so I reckon I'll see it.

Well, my point was success cures a lot, and when we're playing "Carolina Basketball" there just ain't nuthin like it. A lotta kids are drawn to that (and the UNC family that showed up at the Final Four), and that will include enough elite kids to keep us right.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

That is indeed a great sign! I'm thrilled with the results recently and I see a definite improvement in the cachet already. Already top 10 level peeps are including UNC in their top schools and I expect it to just get better. Roy is setting us up to be really good long term and always competitive. I love it and I enjoy the type of kid he invites into the Family!

UNC is back and the Carolina Blue Sky is definitely not falling.

 

[Archer2]

I don't care if top 15 kids want to come to UNC or not, as long as kids ranked 16-60 do. IOW, not OAD's but multiple year guys. If basketball used the same system as football or baseball, our recruiting would still be every bit as good as UK or dook's. But in the OAD era, we aren't very attractive to top 15 kids. Know what? I'm fine with that.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Well, my point was success cures a lot, and when we're playing "Carolina Basketball" there just ain't nuthin like it. A lotta kids are drawn to that (and the UNC family that showed up at the Final Four), and that will include enough elite kids to keep us right.

You're right mate, I remember us having the same conversation about a year ago, saying one of the keys will be for Roy to regularly beat the team from down the road. His record 2005-2011 was good to very good. From 2012 onwards it's been poor.

It takes wins, holding home court and stealing a few at HIS to rebuild the brand. Do that over a 2-3 year period and you're going to have more recruits looking at you seriously. Remember, they're just 17yr old kids with about a 5-6 year span of influence.... sadly a HS Junior wouldn't really know who Tyler Hansbrough is nowadays!

I agree with Arch too. It's not about getting any 5*. Roy needs to recruit and score a certain type of 5* player.

 

[superstar57]

Besides last years class of Mave and Williams you would be very hard pressed to find fault with UNC recruits. Meeks (4 star), Hicks (5 star) and Britt (4 star) all in 2013. Pinson(5 star), Jackson (5 star) and Berry (4 star) 2014. Bradley (5 star) Woods (4 star) and Robinson (4 star). Next year we get 5 star Felton.

I get the panic about not getting many top 5 recruits, but our program future is really more solid year end and out by not having the OAD lately, which is what I assume is what people are upset we are not getting.

Hypotically our starting lineup next year could feature 5 star Felton at PG mutiple 4 star players at SG 5 star wing in Pinson. 4 star PF in Mave and 5 star center in Bradley.

I make the point because people act like we are getting D2 prospects. With the way we are recruiting it may not produce many OAD, but makes us a very solid championship contender yearly.

Very surprised many are not giving us more of a chance of winning it all this year.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Now that was a breath of fresh air.
Super post Superstar!

 

[Archer2]

Yep, the sky's still Carolina blue and hasn't fallen as far as I can see. I think most of the disappointment voiced is, as Superstar said, because we're not signing OAD's and our rival down the road is signing them right and left. There wasn't nearly as much complaining until dook joined UK in adopting the OADU approach. Now some of our fans want us to be like dook. No thanks.

 

[DSouthr]

First, I think it is important to recognize the problem exactly, we are not having nor have we had a problem getting top level players on par with our most hated rivals except when it comes to front court players. Back court talent we have been able to get, it is the game changing big men where we have struggled. It is the game changing big men that are the most likely to be one & done. It isn't recruiting over all, it is recruiting big men that prior to the one & done era would most likely have gone straight to the NBA from high school. We are not getting the clear one & done guy, we have got the on the cusp of being one & done back court guy.

So why have we struggled to get the one & done big man, what can be done to turn that around, and maybe most important do we want to do what it may take to get that one & done big man? We have talked about those 3 questions and we for the most part agree on the first 2, it is that last question, do we really want to do what it may take to begin to get those guys we disagree on. I think it is as simple as asking do you want UNC to continue to be a program that trys to do the right thing or is it acceptable to get down in the mud and do what ever it takes? When I look at things that way it gives me an appreciation for Roy and how he goes about what he does, with grace and integrity. I will take that any day over the dirty slickster nonsense going on at the one & done factories without regrets.

 

[dadika13]

I don't care if top 15 kids want to come to UNC or not.

Ok...well. If no top 15 kids came to Carolina, let's look at some of our NC's:

1993: Montross, Phelps, Reese were all burger boys and I'm sure at least 1 of them was top 15 (probably 2). Do we win a NC without 2 of them? I say no.

2005 - Felton, McCants, May, Marvin all top 15. Safe to say we don't win the title without them.

2009 - Tyler, Wayne, Ty, Ed Davis all top 15. Again, no way we're winning without them.

Hell, let's look at our best 2 teams since that title...2012 and 2016.

2012 - Henson, Barnes, Bullock, McAdoo, Hairston all top 15.

2016 - Depends where you look, but Justin, Hicks, and Theo top 15 in at least 1 major site.

So...let's ask. Do we win any NC's or make Final 4's without those guys? No freaking chance.

So while you keep saying top 15's don't matter, I'll be the one hoping we get them because I understand that for continued excellence they are necessary.

 

[dadika13]

First, I think it is important to recognize the problem exactly, we are not having nor have we had a problem getting top level players on par with our most hated rivals except when it comes to front court players. Back court talent we have been able to get, it is the game changing big men where we have struggled. It is the game changing big men that are the most likely to be one & done. It isn't recruiting over all, it is recruiting big men that prior to the one & done era would most likely have gone straight to the NBA from high school. We are not getting the clear one & done guy, we have got the on the cusp of being one & done back court guy.

So why have we struggled to get the one & done big man, what can be done to turn that around, and maybe most important do we want to do what it may take to get that one & done big man? We have talked about those 3 questions and we for the most part agree on the first 2, it is that last question, do we really want to do what it may take to begin to get those guys we disagree on. I think it is as simple as asking do you want UNC to continue to be a program that trys to do the right thing or is it acceptable to get down in the mud and do what ever it takes? When I look at things that way it gives me an appreciation for Roy and how he goes about what he does, with grace and integrity. I will take that any day over the dirty slickster nonsense going on at the one & done factories without regrets.

For the 8 millionth time...OAD's and top 15 recruits are two different things. I'll take Lawson's Ellington's Psycho T's Justin Jackon's over the Okafor's, Randle's, Wiggins every day of the week.

 

[DSouthr]

For the 8 millionth time...OAD's and top 15 recruits are two different things. I'll take Lawson's Ellington's Psycho T's Justin Jackon's over the Okafor's, Randle's, Wiggins every day of the week.

When I put this post and the one before it from you together, I have no clue what you are trying to say?

 

[dadika13]

When I put this post and the one before it from you together, I have no clue what you are trying to say?

I'm saying that for some reason people think if we recruit top 15 recruits then we are just another OAD factory. And that is not true, at all.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

For the 8 millionth time...OAD's and top 15 recruits are two different things. I'll take Lawson's Ellington's Psycho T's Justin Jackon's over the Okafor's, Randle's, Wiggins every day of the week.

I agree. I want top talent. Who wouldn't? But I like talent that sticks around.

I have been floating the theory for a while that top talent includes guys who are ready for the NBA (but can't go directly) as well as those who will eventually be ready for the NBA but need development first. And it's the latter group that look at Roy and see the kind of program that will fit them well.

The problem lately is that getting to the NBA quickest has been over-emphasized. Plus more and more kids have what really ought to be clearly identified as "agents" who make them believe they are going to be OAD. So they pick a OAD factory school instead of a school where they can take the time they really need to develop.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Ok...well. If no top 15 kids came to Carolina, let's look at some of our NC's:

1993: Montross, Phelps, Reese were all burger boys and I'm sure at least 1 of them was top 15 (probably 2). Do we win a NC without 2 of them? I say no.

2005 - Felton, McCants, May, Marvin all top 15. Safe to say we don't win the title without them.

2009 - Tyler, Wayne, Ty, Ed Davis all top 15. Again, no way we're winning without them.

Hell, let's look at our best 2 teams since that title...2012 and 2016.

2012 - Henson, Barnes, Bullock, McAdoo, Hairston all top 15.

2016 - Depends where you look, but Justin, Hicks, and Theo top 15 in at least 1 major site.

So...let's ask. Do we win any NC's or make Final 4's without those guys? No freaking chance.

So while you keep saying top 15's don't matter, I'll be the one hoping we get them because I understand that for continued excellence they are necessary.

Yup. If we fail to bring in top 15 talent every year, then we become like the Georgetown's and Syracuse's of the world. Solid programs for sure - but not perennial contenders.

I agree. I want top talent. Who wouldn't? But I like talent that sticks around

I like talent that sticks around as well. But if given the choice between getting the #3 recruit in the country for a year, or not getting him at all, I'll take the former.

 

[Archer2]

"For the 8 millionth time...OAD's and top 15 recruits are two different things. I'll take Lawson's Ellington's Psycho T'sJustin Jackon's over the Okafor's, Randle's, Wiggins every day of the week."

I couldn't agree more. The reason I said top 15 players was that most of those players in 2016 either consider themselves a OAD or would very much like to be one. That wasn't the case just a few years ago. Plus, I would say that very kids that come to UNC think of themselves as OAD's. It's not a OAD type environment, it attracts recruits who have interests other than getting an NBA paycheck ASAP.

 

[Archer2]

"I like talent that sticks around as well. But if given the choice between getting the #3 recruit in the country for a year, or not getting him at all, I'll take the former."

I'll take the 30th ranked guy who sticks around for 3-4 years over your OAD wunderkind.

 

[dadika13]

Then we're all arguing the same point. No one wants us to be a OAD factory. We want top recruits that will be around for a few years.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

"I like talent that sticks around as well. But if given the choice between getting the #3 recruit in the country for a year, or not getting him at all, I'll take the former."

I'll take the 30th ranked guy who sticks around for 3-4 years over your OAD wunderkind.

Agree to disagree on that one. You're fortunate though, as it appears Roy agrees with your stance, so that's what we're going to have for the foreseeable future anyways.

 

[heels05champs]

Roy wants OAD kids and he has offered some each year. He has said himself, his ideal mix would include 1 or 2 OAD type kids with a couple 3-4 year type kids. That is the perfect mix for Roy's system and equates to a perfect blend of talent and experience. With that said, I agree with Roy and hope he can make it happen over the next few classes.

 

[montana_heel]

I believe it will turn. Another solid season of guard play and deep run into the tournament. Roy must have felt good about some high level frontcourt guys since he didn't really get in with the 20 - 75 range of big guys. I wonder if that will change next year.

He also seems to be getting in with people earlier than ever before which I think is a change for him that has become necessary.

 

[DSouthr]

I'm saying that for some reason people think if we recruit top 15 recruits then we are just another OAD factory. And that is not true, at all.

First, last I checked Roy has recruited the top 15, he has recruited the top 10 and the top 5. But there are some things Roy is not going to do that other programs will in order to get those top best of the best. AND for the record I am perfectly fine with Roy doing things his way, I would not be fine at all to see kalipari become UNC head coach. Nor do I want to see Roy take the Team USA gig and milk it for a decade in order to have an extra advantage not granted to others.