Apparently Izzo,like Hubert, cannot......

[keysersosay#1]

Develop his players. His team Capt, Tre Holloman, just entered the portal. What is even more astounding is that he will visit Carolina. Wait I thought that HD was a joke at this coaching thing. A GUY who loses players all the time because he simply cannot Develop THEM. IJ THE LATEST. Of course he follows EC who just wasn't developing, according to the self appointed e experts here, who also happen to be massive HD haters.

The question then becomes...why would a guy leave a future HOF coach, who just a week ago went on a 15 minute rant about how he wanted playerswhom he could Develop at MSU. ..why would his team captain and leader look at a schlub like HD who according to the haters, is at best a mid major coach.

I am interested in how the hater heads will spin this strange situation.

 

[strummingram]

$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

[NathanFielder]

Tre Holloman was less efficient last year than Caleb Love was in his final season at UNC. Let's not make him out to be Coby White.

 

[keysersosay#1]

No one is...I just find it interesting..oh btw he can leave for $$$$$$ but IJ and Ec are leaving for other reasons..got it

 

[RoseHeel]

Unrelated, but Izzo is exactly why I think we would've been better off just keeping Roy and letting him coach old man ball until the wheels fall off. Imagine what Roy could've done with four years of the #1 recruiting class.

 

[NathanFielder]

Unrelated, but Izzo is exactly why I think we would've been better off just keeping Roy and letting him coach old man ball until the wheels fall off. Imagine what Roy could've done with four years of the #1 recruiting class.

Eh, I think there's evidence that the wheels were falling off with Roy. And this was Tom Izzo's first Elite 8 post-Covid.

Also, eventually Hubert was going to take over the program right? Would it really have mattered when?

 

[DSouthr]

Welp, the chum is now in the water...

 

[RoseHeel]

Eh, I think there's evidence that the wheels were falling off with Roy. And this was Tom Izzo's first Elite 8 post-Covid.

Also, eventually Hubert was going to take over the program right? Would it really have mattered when?

All it takes is two bad years to write off a three time champion who'd already proven he could rebuild a championship team with less? I'd rather have Roy on his worst day than what we have now.

 

[Bubspub88]

I have no doubt he will visit UNC, get an NIL package put together and then shop it to another program

 

[DSouthr]

All it takes is two bad years to write off a three time champion who'd already proven he could rebuild a championship team with less? I'd rather have Roy on his worst day than what we have now.

Remind me again, who was the ACC COY season before last?

 

[alabamaheel]

Remind me again, who was the ACC COY season before last?

By all accounts the coy from the acc the last few years really can’t brag much. lol

 

[RoseHeel]

Remind me again, who was the ACC COY season before last?

Remind me again, where was the ACC ranked compared to the other P5 Conferences season before last?

 

[DSouthr]

Look, I am not here to defend Hubert, I have said specifically that if it were up to me he would no longer be our coach,news that I would have delivered directly following that Ole Miss game. But I do know because I have watched him to it, that Hubert can put a solid team together and they can win as long as he has the talent level to do so. He was 2 players "short", meaning 2 big men above 6'8" that had the body to play physical ball. Is there anyone here that didn't know game 1 that we had a structure problem that simply was not going to go away, that was stuff I dealt with and moved on from before game 1. So rather than complain incessantly, I looked for ways to turn things from fertilizer in to chicken salad.

I do hope that Hubert can fake it til he makes it, talent upgrade should allow that, better positional construction should allow that. We are going to hit the floor next season with MUCH better positional structure, Hubert is going to have to figure out how to win with that, hopefully he has learned enough from this season and there is enough help available to help him make better decisions. If he doesn't there will be to many critical eyes on him to make it to another season.

 

[DSouthr]

Remind me again, where was the ACC ranked compared to the other P5 Conferences season before last?

So now it is the entire ACC that sucks, not just Hubert? OK then, the whole ACC sucks, remind me again who the #1 seeds for the NCAAT were season before last? Are not the 4 number 1 seeds in the NCAAT considered to be the best 4 teams in college for that season? How far do we go down this rabbit hole?

 

[GoNtheDistance]

so in some stupid way you hype Hubert simply because a kid agrees to visit now? how dumb. hell our brand alone warrants a visit if you are a top tier talent whether it be that we are actually in the running or for leverage in this day and age of college athletics.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Tom Izzo is my more over rated coach to ever live.

Anyone want to argue about it?

 

[notashelbyfan]

So now it is the entire ACC that sucks, not just Hubert? OK then, the whole ACC sucks, remind me again who the #1 seeds for the NCAAT were season before last? Are not the 4 number 1 seeds in the NCAAT considered to be the best 4 teams in college for that season? How far do we go down this rabbit hole?

I think the point of saying that the ACC is bad is to point out as weak as it was and the best he could muster was 4 place and squeaking into the dance. We had the talent to finish at least 2 in the ACC, i can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

 

[DSouthr]

By all accounts the coy from the acc the last few years really can’t brag much. lol

Yeah, I get it bama, and again, I am not here to defend Hubert nor am I here to persecute him, I am here defending common sense. It is funny to me, really is, season before last, while Hubert was being named ACC COY, while his team won the ACC regular season, while his team marched in to the NCAAT as a #1 seed and considered to be the hottest team in the NCAA, what was I doing? Telling anyone that would listen things I simply did NOT LIKE about Hubert's decisions. Things like changing our base defend 3 different times, like relying to much on RJ, about the lack of player movement in half court offense, about players not being held accountable, how players were out of position, ect. I didn't share those things that whole season because I hated Hubert being our coach, I shared them to reflect just what I saw game by game and the hopes to see those things improve.

So many seem to need to find a simple fix, some folks want one person to be isolated as the culprit for this past season and the simple fix is to fire that guy. Thing was there were multiple things that fed in to the results of this past season, not just 1 simple thing. It is like opening a book for the first time, reading the first page and skipping all the way to the last page and feeling like you just read the whole book, it just not that simple.

 

[DSouthr]

Tom Izzo is my more over rated coach to ever live.

Anyone want to argue about it?

Oh, I wil see your Izzo and raise you a Calipari !

 

[DSouthr]

I think the point of saying that the ACC is bad is to point out as weak as it was and the best he could muster was 4 place and squeaking into the dance. We had the talent to finish at least 2 in the ACC, i can't see how anyone could argue otherwise.

His talent was not balanced and honestly shelby, we knew that after the portal closed last year. It was bad enough to know we came out of that portal with one of the smallest back courts in the country but to come out of it with one of the shortest front courts as well. IT is easy to say that was all on Hubert, that he should have come out with more. But I watch this stuff pretty darn close and I honestly can not tell you exactly what factors Hubert was having to deal with when he was making his portal decisions, especially as it applies to $$$. You and I BOTH know Hubert wanted big men from that portal and didn't get them other than a 6'8" guy that played for a small Vandy team. REAL or not, I have to believe there were limiting factors that Hubert felt he had to work with, right or wrong.

 

[RoseHeel]

So now it is the entire ACC that sucks, not just Hubert?

Yes. Almost like two things can be true at once. Mind blowing stuff, isn't it?

remind me again who the #1 seeds for the NCAAT were season before last?

Remind me again who was the first #1 seed to lose.

Are not the 4 number 1 seeds in the NCAAT considered to be the best 4 teams in college for that season?

Not when their ceiling is a Sweet 16.

How far do we go down this rabbit hole?

Your entire argument hinges on the fact that he was the best coach out of a whopping 15 other coaches, for one single year, in a year that the ACC was below the damn Mountain West. So yeah, hats off to Hubcap for being the tallest midget in the county circus.

There is no "rabbit hole" here. You are pointing to a one time achievement that Hubert hasn't replicated since and pretending this has been the standard of his coaching and not the exception to it. Which is even funnier given this was a full 2 seasons ago. How about you try defending last season instead? I am very interested in how you will spin that strange situation.

 

[DSouthr]

Yes. Almost like two things can be true at once. Mind blowing stuff, isn't it?

Remind me again who was the first #1 seed to lose.


Not when their ceiling is a Sweet 16.


Your entire argument hinges on the fact that he was the best coach out of a whopping 15 other coaches, for one single year, in a year that the ACC was below the damn Mountain West. So yeah, hats off to Hubcap for being the tallest midget in the county circus.

There is no "rabbit hole" here. You are pointing to a one time achievement that Hubert hasn't replicated since and pretending this has been the standard of his coaching and not the exception to it. Which is even funnier given this was a full 2 seasons ago. How about you try defending last season instead? I am very interested in how you will spin that strange situation.

Actually rose, you are way off, I never said that Hubert was the best coach in the ACC, I said he was voted as such, my vote would not have been for Hubert, I did not like his decisions that season, I shared as much after every single game we played that season, you don't get to hang me with that. Go back and read every single gary stuff threads from that season if you don't believe me. I have been that guy that tells you what I like and what I don't like, game by game and I gave you more than just the simply Hubert can't coach bull crap.

You want my thoughts on last season, yet again, go back to each and every stuff thread by gary, READ ! That way you can know the truth and not have to make stuff up to fit your argument. My critiques of our coaching, my critiques of the players, it is all there.

You said my entire argument hinges on ... Excuse me but what argument was I making? I was replying to a post that said Izzo was basically a failure when he was 2yrs removed from a solid season. Yet 1 season from such a season Hubert was being trashed by our fan base that is more truth than argument.

Want some real comedy thou, Hubert's team has a worse season than they had the season before and you spin that in to his not having a successful season since? You are literally saying that any coach that wins the natty and does not the following season is a crap coach in need of being fired? Danny Hurley better buff up his resume because he hasn't achieved what he did the season before since his team last won a natty! LOL

 

[Geth]

So now it is the entire ACC that sucks,

As much as we hate DOOK they sort of highlighted that point 3 days ago.

 

[RoseHeel]

Actually rose, you are way off, I never said that Hubert was the best coach in the ACC, I said he was voted as such, my vote would not have been for Hubert, I did not like his decisions that season, I shared as much after every single game we played that season, you don't get to hang me with that. Go back and read every single gary stuff threads from that season if you don't believe me. I have been that guy that tells you what I like and what I don't like, game by game and I gave you more than just the simply Hubert can't coach bull crap.

Then there was no reason to bring up his COY in the first place if you don't believe it. Besides what's the difference? That's what the award functions as. I'd suggest you let him have that title because he's already on shaky ground even with it.

Whether it's true or not is irrelevant, the question is what does it matter given the context I provided?

You said my entire argument hinges on ... Excuse me but what argument was I making? I was replying to a post that said Izzo was basically a failure when he was 2yrs removed from a solid season.

False. You replied to my post saying I would rather have Roy over Hubert by pointing out his COY award like it wasn't already factored in. Get back with me when he gets a national recognition.

The only people who are moved by him winning that are other UNC fans who only bring it up to defend him in some capacity. Which is in fact what you're doing right now even if you have been critical in the past, like you suggest.

and you spin that in to his not having a successful season since?

You know why? Because we can only judge Hubert based on what he has shown us for 4 years, since he had zero relevant experience or record anywhere else to get him the job. Which kinda makes you wonder how he got hired in the first place...

Anyway, when you actually look at all four season as a whole (instead of cherrypicking like you) we see that last season, the missed tourney season, and 90% of the first season are more similar than the one off year he got a #1 seed. Which, once again, makes that season an exception to what has been the norm under Hubert: mediocrity.
And since you brought up UConn, Kevin Ollie managed to win a championship and was still gone in five years. Hubcap doesn't even have the title to prop him up.

But you really want to talk comedy? Nothing tops you trying to juxtapose a coach who's won back to back titles with success at every program he's been at, to a coach on the hotseat for nearly missing the tournament twice in his first four years. Side splitting stuff right there. This board likes to gnash their teeth about Hurley; at least he earned his job.

 

[gary-7]

Tre Holloman was less efficient last year than Caleb Love was in his final season at UNC. Let's not make him out to be Coby White.

That's your standard? SMH.

 

[NathanFielder]

That's your standard? SMH.

It's not my standard but efficiency is part of the talent evaluation. His also losing his starting role is part of the evaluation.

According to Michigan State fans I've seen online, he's more of a tweaner. Not really a 1 nor a 2. And I'm guessing he wants to start if he transfers. As of today, I'm not all too bullish on a Holloman/Trimble backcourt. But that largely depends how the rest of the roster turns out.

If you care about numbers, his efficiency absolutely tanked against Top 100 opponents last year. 42.6% from 2PT, 28.2% from 3PT.

I think he's ok, which I've said before.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

So what you are actually saying is peeps transfer for a myriad of reasons at other programs! Hmmmm.....maybe that could be the case at UNC.....naw it could only be one thing!

MSU fans trying to diminish a player who is leaving them, maybe they have an agenda??? A player had less impressive stats against better opposition....probably the first time that happened!

Why is it impossible for some fans to EVER spin things positively???
Hubs is currently building an excellent new squad. He has grown in his job every season. He has significantly changed the very nature of our program and immediately gotten top HS recruits and top portal targets, but let's keep on qualifying every answer by stating how much peeps dislike him and highlighting every perceived negative!
(Oh, let's constantly bring up every supposed misstep Hubs has ever done; that's doing your part to support the Heels!)

I choose positive! Izzo is HOF quality and I can't help but wonder how long he can stay in this new game! Hubs is our guy and I will back him as long as this is true!

Go Tar Heels!

 

[notashelbyfan]

So what you are actually saying is peeps transfer for a myriad of reasons at other programs! Hmmmm.....maybe that could be the case at UNC.....naw it could only be one thing!

MSU fans trying to diminish a player who is leaving them, maybe they have an agenda??? A player had less impressive stats against better opposition....probably the first time that happened!

Why is it impossible for some fans to EVER spin things positively???
Hubs is currently building an excellent new squad. He has grown in his job every season. He has significantly changed the very nature of our program and immediately gotten top HS recruits and top portal targets, but let's keep on qualifying every answer by stating how much peeps dislike him and highlighting every perceived negative!
(Oh, let's constantly bring up every supposed misstep Hubs has ever done; that's doing your part to support the hells!)

I choose positive! Izzo is HOF quality and I can't help but wonder how long he can stay in this new game! Hubs is our guy and I will back him as long as this is true!

Go Tar Heels!

You being for real or you being sarcastic?

 

[NathanFielder]

So what you are actually saying is peeps transfer for a myriad of reasons at other programs! Hmmmm.....maybe that could be the case at UNC.....naw it could only be one thing!

MSU fans trying to diminish a player who is leaving them, maybe they have an agenda??? A player had less impressive stats against better opposition....probably the first time that happened!

Why is it impossible for some fans to EVER spin things positively???
Hubs is currently building an excellent new squad. He has grown in his job every season. He has significantly changed the very nature of our program and immediately gotten top HS recruits and top portal targets, but let's keep on qualifying every answer by stating how much peeps dislike him and highlighting every perceived negative!
(Oh, let's constantly bring up every supposed misstep Hubs has ever done; that's doing your part to support the hells!)

I choose positive! Izzo is HOF quality and I can't help but wonder how long he can stay in this new game! Hubs is our guy and I will back him as long as this is true!

Go Tar Heels!

I'm guessing this was addressed to me so I'll take a stab at it.

I don't know how it's a diminishing statement to say he's a tweaner 1-2. If that's an agenda driven thing, it's about the most lukewarm agenda driven thing I've seen in today's agenda-driven society.

Would it be better if I said, "he was really inefficient from 3 last year against quality opposition. But since he's a candidate to be a UNC player, I'm sure he'll improve because UNC is awesome!" His performance against quality competition last year is part of my evaluation process. If it doesn't matter to you, then fine. I literally prefaced the statistic with that.

And I haven't really mentioned all that much about next year's team. I think I've been pretty consistent that I want to see how the roster looks.

 

[DSouthr]

Then there was no reason to bring up his COY in the first place if you don't believe it. Besides what's the difference? That's what the award functions as. I'd suggest you let him have that title because he's already on shaky ground even with it.

Whether it's true or not is irrelevant, the question is what does it matter given the context I provided?

False. You replied to my post saying I would rather have Roy over Hubert by pointing out his COY award like it wasn't already factored in. Get back with me when he gets a national recognition.

The only people who are moved by him winning that are other UNC fans who only bring it up to defend him in some capacity. Which is in fact what you're doing right now even if you have been critical in the past, like you suggest.


You know why? Because we can only judge Hubert based on what he has shown us for 4 years, since he had zero relevant experience or record anywhere else to get him the job. Which kinda makes you wonder how he got hired in the first place...

Anyway, when you actually look at all four season as a whole (instead of cherrypicking like you) we see that last season, the missed tourney season, and 90% of the first season are more similar than the one off year he got a #1 seed. Which, once again, makes that season an exception to what has been the norm under Hubert: mediocrity.
And since you brought up UConn, Kevin Ollie managed to win a championship and was still gone in five years. Hubcap doesn't even have the title to prop him up.

But you really want to talk comedy? Nothing tops you trying to juxtapose a coach who's won back to back titles with success at every program he's been at, to a coach on the hotseat for nearly missing the tournament twice in his first four years. Side splitting stuff right there. This board likes to gnash their teeth about Hurley; at least he earned his job.

WoW, if I assume you actually read my post then I have to conclude you struggle to understand it. I read your reply, frankly, it makes no sense. You accuse me of bringing Roy in to this falsely (that means you didn't tell the truth), I was talking about Tom Izzo and the suggestion that Izzo is on the same level as Hubert, then you go off in to crazy land . I simply shared that it is not typical to beat up a coach that won COY of his conference the season before and it isn't.

All of this "argument" you seem intent to have is against a guy that has clearly stated, multiple times now that I would have fired Hubert directly following that Ole Miss game. I swear, you cannot just make stuff like this up and then double down on it? By the way, I do not have to agree that Hubert deserved to win ACC COY season before last to acknowledge that he did or did you not realize that simple FACT? LOL

 

[DSouthr]

I'm guessing this was addressed to me so I'll take a stab at it.

I don't know how it's a diminishing statement to say he's a tweaner 1-2. If that's an agenda driven thing, it's about the most lukewarm agenda driven thing I've seen in today's agenda-driven society.

Would it be better if I said, "he was really inefficient from 3 last year against quality opposition. But since he's a candidate to be a UNC player, I'm sure he'll improve because UNC is awesome!" His performance against quality competition last year is part of my evaluation process. If it doesn't matter to you, then fine. I literally prefaced the statistic with that.

And I haven't really mentioned all that much about next year's team. I think I've been pretty consistent that I want to see how the roster looks.

I am not as sold on Holloman as others may be, I do like Lee a lot but we may be to late for him. I am not sure Holloman would bring us more than Seth would at the point, not saying he doesn't but more that I am not yet sold that he would.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

don't know how it's a diminishing statement to say he's a tweaner 1-2.

You don't see how MSU fans are trying to diminish his impact with this statement? Doesn't the context of UNC supposedly recruiting him as our next PG give you any clue? You also made more than one post about his supposedly poor efficiency. I fully expect him to improve with reps and practice so yes I expect him to be better at UNC. BTW: Don't assume the entire post was about you, It wasn't and neither is this song! BUT you do have an issue with relentless negativity if you are actually looking to improve! Sarcasm isn't your strong suit but at least your posts are logical and backed with your interpretation of the facts! Try once in a while to just say something positive without qualification or equivocation. It is indeed sad that society is driven more by agenda than compassion though!

 

[TPFKAPFS]

FTR: I prefer Lee but I think Holloman has potential AND I think Seth has PG potential as well. The bird in the hand in this case is far more valuable than the bird on the wish list!

 

[NathanFielder]

I am not as sold on Holloman as others may be, I do like Lee a lot but we may be to late for him. I am not sure Holloman would bring us more than Seth would at the point, not saying he doesn't but more that I am not yet sold that he would.

I think he's a fringe starter for a competitive team. Guessing he isn't going to transfer to come off the bench though.

I'm sure Seth or Holloman can play PG. I just don't think UNC has a high ceiling with Holloman/Trimble as its starting backcourt. And I don't think Trimble is a PG for a really good team. But that's sitting here today. Things are fluid.

 

[DSouthr]

I think he's a fringe starter for a competitive team. Guessing he isn't going to transfer to come off the bench though.

I'm sure Seth or Holloman can play PG. I just don't think UNC has a high ceiling with Holloman/Trimble as its starting backcourt. And I don't think Trimble is a PG for a really good team. But that's sitting here today. Things are fluid.

I think I agree, a back court of Holloman and Seth is basically same as Cadeau and Seth FROM THE ASPECT OF HAVING 2 WEAK JUMP SHOOTERS IN YOUR BACK COURT. 2 weak jump shooting guys in your starting back court means teams sag the middle to prevent drives, you can work with 1 but not both being poor jump shooters.

 

[NathanFielder]

I think I agree, a back court of Holloman and Seth is basically same as Cadeau and Seth FROM THE ASPECT OF HAVING 2 WEAK JUMP SHOOTERS IN YOUR BACK COURT. 2 weak jump shooting guys in your starting back court means teams sag the middle to prevent drives, you can work with 1 but not both being poor jump shooters.

Bookmarking this so I can remind myself to play the Powerball and Mega Millions tonight.

 

[RoseHeel]

WoW, if I assume you actually read my post then I have to conclude you struggle to understand it. I read your reply, frankly, it makes no sense.

Everyone else seemed to understand my posts just fine. The fact that you can't says more about you than what I wrote.

You accuse me of bringing Roy in to this falsely (that means you didn't tell the truth), I was talking about Tom Izzo and the suggestion that Izzo is on the same level as Hubert, then you go off in to crazy land . kevin

Why do you feel the need to just lie on the internet like this? You realize other people can read the posts on this thread too, correct? So everyone here can see you responded to my post about saying I wanted Roy over Hubert with some horse shite about Hubert winning COY. Neither one of us mentioned Izzo in that exchange so what in God's name are you blabbering about? Look, let me screenshot it since you seem to be having so much trouble here:

As you can see, Izzo is not mentioned or referred to. So I ask again, why are you lying? That's beneath you.

Maybe you should worry about your own reading comprehension instead of mine? Or maybe you're just backtracking because you realized you never had a point to begin with...

I simply shared that it is not typical to beat up a coach that won COY of his conference the season before and it isn't.

And I simply refuted that by pointing out:

• The ACC is a shitshow compared to what it used to be and to its contemporary P5 rivals.
• He was competing with just 14 other coaches to win the award, 11 of which didn't even make the tournament.
• "the season before" is his one and only good regular season. He's getting "beat up on" about his other 2.9 seasons.
• The only ones who care about him winning such a diminished award are UNC fans looking to defend him.

Which, yes DSouth, is precisely what you were doing when you first responded to me. In spite of all the critiques you may or may not have made, and despite all your attempts to backtrack and lie your way out of this, in that instance you were defending him. Now, we're waiting on you to refute any of these four points and defend him again.

All of this "argument" you seem intent to have is against a guy that has clearly stated, multiple times now that I would have fired Hubert directly following that Ole Miss game. I swear, you cannot just make stuff like this up and then double down on it? By the way, I do not have to agree that Hubert deserved to win ACC COY season before last to acknowledge that he did or did you not realize that simple FACT? LOL

So you bring up Hubcap winning COY, only to backtrack in the next post and say "Oh well I didn't think he actually deserved it". ??? THEN WHY ARE YOU BRINGING IT UP IN THE FIRST PLACE? If you agree with me that Hubert should've been fired by now, stop using bad faith talking points just to make a counterpoint, especially when you freely admitted you don't believe he even deserved the award yourself.

If you want to stand by what you originally said and try to defend Hubcap's COY award or dispute what I said about taking Seventy year old Roy over him, I'm all ears. But I'm not wasting any more time going back and forth with you over basic semantics.

 

[RoseHeel]

All of this "argument" you seem intent to have is against a guy that has clearly stated, multiple times now that I would have fired Hubert directly following that Ole Miss game. I swear, you cannot just make stuff like this up and then double down on it? By the way, I do not have to agree that Hubert deserved to win ACC COY season before last to acknowledge that he did or did you not realize that simple FACT? LOL

"I think our head coach should be fired, but I don't think we should criticize him because he won an award I didn't feel he deserved one time."

 

[DSouthr]

So is that your game, you just want to argue with someone, is that it? LOL I am just not going to play this game with you,if you ever get to the point of wanting to rationally discuss UNC sports, fine but for now all you want to do is act like a clown. You started this nonsense, I am ending it.

 

[RoseHeel]

So is that your game, you just want to argue with someone, is that it? LOL I am just not going to play this game with you,if you ever get to the point of wanting to rationally discuss UNC sports, fine but for now all you want to do is act like a clown. You started this nonsense, I am ending it.

I accept your concession.