Are the fans putting unrealistic expectations on Pinson

[IDUNK4HEELS]

Yes the young man will be back soon which will make Carolina a deeper and stronger team but are fans expecting more than Pinson can realistically deliver.

How many threads have there been about how Pinson would have made the difference both offensively and defensively In both of the losses and how he would be the answer to all of the rotating players presently manning the SHOOTING GUARD position.

I boldly printed SHOOTING GUARD because like Jackie Manuel who also played the two, Pinson has not proven to this observer that he can consisted hit from the outside. Now if he can play defense like Jackie did then I will gladly take that but let's be honest here a two guards job is to shoot the rock and rip the nets.

I hope I am wrong but I think many who post here think Pinson will be the savior of the team and even coming off a long time of not playing due to a injury his presence will mean a final four team.

Everyone needs to give Theo some time to work his way back into the rotation and not expect a miracle worker whose sheer presence puts Carolina over the top.

Theo will be and is a important piece of the puzzle on how far UNC dances in March but to expect him to make that big of a difference immediately is unrealistic and very unfair to him...

 

[HeelFan58]

Yes the young man will be back soon which will make Carolina a deeper and stronger team but are fans expecting more than Pinson can realistically deliver.

How many threads have there been about how Pinson would have made the difference both offensively and defensively In both of the losses and how he would be the answer to all of the rotating players presently manning the SHOOTING GUARD position.

I boldly printed SHOOTING GUARD because like Jackie Manuel who also played the two, Pinson has not proven to this observer that he can consisted hit from the outside. Now if he can play defense like Jackie did then I will gladly take that but let's be honest here a two guards job is to shoot the rock and rip the nets.

I hope I am wrong but I think many who post here think Pinson will be the savior of the team and even coming off a long time of not playing due to a injury his presence will mean a final four team.

Everyone needs to give Theo some time to work his way back into the rotation and not expect a miracle worker whose sheer presence puts Carolina over the top.

Theo will be and is a important piece of the puzzle on how far UNC dances in March but to expect him to make that big of a difference immediately is unrealistic and very unfair to him...

HELL YES!

 

[gauchoheel]

Don't think he will be a savior, and the team is good enough that it will be hard to make a huge difference. That said we have not been getting a ton from Kenny/Nate, so he will add quality minutes.

 

[tarheel0910]

Yes the young man will be back soon which will make Carolina a deeper and stronger team but are fans expecting more than Pinson can realistically deliver.

How many threads have there been about how Pinson would have made the difference both offensively and defensively In both of the losses and how he would be the answer to all of the rotating players presently manning the SHOOTING GUARD position.

I boldly printed SHOOTING GUARD because like Jackie Manuel who also played the two, Pinson has not proven to this observer that he can consisted hit from the outside. Now if he can play defense like Jackie did then I will gladly take that but let's be honest here a two guards job is to shoot the rock and rip the nets.

I hope I am wrong but I think many who post here think Pinson will be the savior of the team and even coming off a long time of not playing due to a injury his presence will mean a final four team.

Everyone needs to give Theo some time to work his way back into the rotation and not expect a miracle worker whose sheer presence puts Carolina over the top.

Theo will be and is a important piece of the puzzle on how far UNC dances in March but to expect him to make that big of a difference immediately is unrealistic and very unfair to him...

Agreed. I think some are expecting too much from him right now. He is going to need some time to get back into game shape and form. He will definitely help us, especially when we go small, but I think it will be closer to the end of January before we see him at full strength.

 

[coryfly]

I mean, the team doesn't need a savior so anyone expecting that has screwed up expectations both ways as it is. He was going to be and will be the starting SG on a top 5 team. He does things no one else on the team can. If people expect his return to ultimately make UNC a better team they will be pleased. If people expect him to come back and see UNC immediately be tons better than every team we play that is kind of on them.

 

[Archer2]

I don't think anyone's expecting him to be our savior, that's silly. But to think that he won't make our team better is just as silly. He's our most versatile defender, the guy that makes our small ball lineup work with his ability to play the four.

Yes, it will take time for him to get his game legs back, no doubt. But his energy and versatility are important assets for this team.

I believe Roy will work him in slowly, most likely coming off the bench. But I'm excited about the prospect of Theo's return.

 

[Archer2]

Typed the above on my Iphone. Now that I'm on my laptop, I'd like to elaborate. I saw a couple of posters state that we probably would have beaten UK if we'd had Theo available, but only a couple. Who knows? It certainly would have been nice to have another longarmed defender on the perimeter, undoubtedly. But perhaps it wouldn't have mattered. I prefer to look at what he brings to the team, rather than talk about what ifs.

I think many are forgetting that our small ball lineup was our most effective lineup in several games down the stretch last year. Theo's very long arms and quickness allow him to defend the four spot in our small ball lineup. Roy has tried going small a few time this year, but with limited effectiveness because JJ can't guard the four spot. We did use a super small lineup against UNI, with Luke in the middle, something I don't think any of us thought we'd see. And it was actually effective, but we were playing UNI. Bottome line is our small ball lineup has basically been shelved during Theo's absence. Having the option to go small and very athletic is a big bonus for this team. Theo's return gives us that ability again.

Another thing Theo gives us is energy. And while he has been a great cheerleader on the sidelines, much as Big Joel was, we need his energy on the court. Theo's return gives us three solid defenders on the perimeter, something that not many teams can say. And as Mike has said more than once, Theo is also one of the best on our team at making the entry pass down to the block. Kennedy, Isaiah, and Tony have missed that.

So Theo doesn't have to be our "savior". He just needs to bring his unique talents to the equation and that will suffice to make us better. As good as we've looked at times this year, we have another gear left in us. I think Theo can help us shift into that sixth gear. Barring further injuries, I fully expect us to be playing as well as anybody by the end of February.

 

[Tom79]

I love TP but to say he is a "shooting guard"....not exactly. We need him back...soon, conference starts with the Bugs.
Kenny's numbers are okay despite what some may say and Nate has had a tough few weeks but both still get after it on defense.

 

[jeans15]

He can allow Berry to be more of a shooter. Capable of setting other players up....That's more important than his 3pt shooting to me.

 

[DSouthr]

First, want to say Theo does not need to try to be our savior because frankly not much we need saving from. I think we are a top 5 team now and adding Theo gives us yet another weapon that will help us.

Theo will come right in and take over the 2 spot and give us great defense, problem with that is I see kenny playing really solid defense, Monk went off on him but Monk was going off on anyone that night, Kenny's defense has been for me a really nice surprise.

Where I just honestly see Theo being an impact guy is in some of the PT that so far Luke, Nate, and BRob have been getting. No offense to those guys, they are doing what they can but Theo takes what they have been able to do to another level. I would strongly prefer to see Theo backing up the 2, 3, and 4 positions rather than sit Kenny as a starter. There is easy 25mins to be had in that role and it brings that intensity off the bench and that is not a bad thing at all.

Yeah, I know, I suspect Roy will plug Theo in at the 2 as a starter, I just don't see that as the better way to use what he can bring us. Just my opinion...

 

[Archer2]

He can allow Berry to be more of a shooter. Capable of setting other players up....That's more important than his 3pt shooting to me.

Exactly. We all know Theo isn't an outside marksman. But he can defend and drop the dime. Plus, his enthusiasm is infectious.

 

[DSouthr]

I love TP but to say he is a "shooting guard"....not exactly. We need him back...soon, conference starts with the Bugs.
Kenny's numbers are okay despite what some may say and Nate has had a tough few weeks but both still get after it on defense.

Considering how most seemed to feel about kenny prior to the season beginning, his numbers have been off the chain. I have been a bit surprised in what I have seen from Kenny, not shocked but nice surprise. Not that he can shoot and not that he does not take bad shots, what has impressed me is his ability and desire to defend, his passing, and his not being afraid to go to the boards for rebounds. Truth is he is not shooting as well as I thought he would but even that is much better than most seemed to think he would before the season. I watch kenny a lot off the ball on both ends, love what I see him doing, anything he gives us on the offensive end is gravy IMO and he can give us a good bit there.

Nate, kid is what he is, he has improved but he is still a smallish guard, looks more like a PG but really just does not seem comfortable as a PG. He is a very streaky shooter that settles at times for bad shots. He has become a much better defender because he works much harder on that end than he did early in his career with us but opponents take advantage of his size. If Nate's shot is not dropping his on court value drops hard IMO and I am not trying to be unfair to the kid. It is just what I see.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Yes the young man will be back soon which will make Carolina a deeper and stronger team but are fans expecting more than Pinson can realistically deliver.

How many threads have there been about how Pinson would have made the difference both offensively and defensively In both of the losses and how he would be the answer to all of the rotating players presently manning the SHOOTING GUARD position.

I boldly printed SHOOTING GUARD because like Jackie Manuel who also played the two, Pinson has not proven to this observer that he can consisted hit from the outside. Now if he can play defense like Jackie did then I will gladly take that but let's be honest here a two guards job is to shoot the rock and rip the nets.

I hope I am wrong but I think many who post here think Pinson will be the savior of the team and even coming off a long time of not playing due to a injury his presence will mean a final four team.

Everyone needs to give Theo some time to work his way back into the rotation and not expect a miracle worker whose sheer presence puts Carolina over the top.

Theo will be and is a important piece of the puzzle on how far UNC dances in March but to expect him to make that big of a difference immediately is unrealistic and very unfair to him...

Good post. I raised many of those points a while ago.

Naturally we ALL hope Theo will be back soon and be 100% very quickly. And since Roy has said he would have started at SG, most of us expect that he will sooner or later take over the starting role there.

But not only is that putting a lot of pressure on Theo - which may or may not be realistic - but it ignores that Kenny has become a darn good player for us. He isn't just a place-holder. And Nate is doing most things very well except the scoring stuff - which, let's remember, is the thing we haven't seen consistently from Theo, either.

If Theo is 100%, we get a player who is behind the rest of the team on development this year and will need time to catch up. Both he and the team will have to learn to play together. But that should happen, given time. It's still early enough in the season.

We also get a player whose main deficiency - pointed out by Roy as well as posters here - is losing focus. Focus and scoring were his weaknesses, the rest he had in spades.

We also get a player who last year did not turn in particularly impressive numbers on a 40-minute basis. Except for assists, where he led the team. Not a big deal, since we had Brice, Marcus, Berry and Justin to fill the basket. More of a big deal this year.

Point being that we expected Theo to be great this year - but that was based mostly on our expectations and the flashes we have seen in his first 2 years. This was the year he would break out. Or that's what most of us felt.

And, of course, he may still break out this year. We all hope so. But it won't be easy coming back from an injury.

It's also worth remembering that Theo never started at SG. He played it some. He played SF some. He played PF some. So not only were we expecting him to break out, we were also expecting him to master a position he played less than half the time.

Last year he was the spark off the bench, the jack of all trades. This year - with Marcus gone - he would have been asked to fill a different role. Sure, he might still play some at SF and PF, but he would be mostly SG.

If I had to guess, I would guess that Roy will work him back into the lineup more along last year's model. A 3-position spark off the bench. Then, if and when he's ready, maybe try him as the SG starter. Just a guess, but the reasoning is that Theo is used to that role, so it might be easier for him to rejoin the team in that role. Less disruption all around.

And then there's the question whether Theo will be 100%. I don't think Dex was ever 100% - and it hurt his D and his drives. Not a lot, but noticeable. He did a great job for us, but he didn't pick up where he left off. Different kind of injury, but I think we have to be prepared for the possibility that Theo won't hit his breakout year until he's a senior.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Considering how most seemed to feel about kenny prior to the season beginning, his numbers have been off the chain. I have been a bit surprised in what I have seen from Kenny, not shocked but nice surprise. Not that he can shoot and not that he does not take bad shots, what has impressed me is his ability and desire to defend, his passing, and his not being afraid to go to the boards for rebounds. Truth is he is not shooting as well as I thought he would but even that is much better than most seemed to think he would before the season. I watch kenny a lot off the ball on both ends, love what I see him doing, anything he gives us on the offensive end is gravy IMO and he can give us a good bit there.

Nate, kid is what he is, he has improved but he is still a smallish guard, looks more like a PG but really just does not seem comfortable as a PG. He is a very streaky shooter that settles at times for bad shots. He has become a much better defender because he works much harder on that end than he did early in his career with us but opponents take advantage of his size. If Nate's shot is not dropping his on court value drops hard IMO and I am not trying to be unfair to the kid. It is just what I see.

Just for fun, here's a comparison of Theo and Kenny on a 40 minute basis. Theo last season, Kenny so far this season:

     FG%  2P%  3P%  FT% TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF   PTS
TP  .404 .494 .286 .672 6.8 6.2 1.3 0.5 2.6 3.7  9.7
KW  .492 .607 .405 .615 5.9 3.9 1.3 0.7 2.2 2.5 11.4

Might not be as easy a choice as some may be thinking.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I see kenny playing really solid defense, Monk went off on him but Monk was going off on anyone that night, Kenny's defense has been for me a really nice surprise.

The main negative I see from Kenny is that he needs to look for his shot more. But I assume that will come with experience.

The main positive is that I never see him taking plays off or losing focus. This something that occasionally afflicts Theo.

Theo is taller, stronger, more athletic. Kenny is fine on those measures, but Theo stands out.

Brandon is coming on, but Theo should be a better SF backup if his recovery is solid. That extra 40 pounds of muscle really matters at SF and PF.

 

[Archer2]

Guys, I think you're being a little overreactive here. No one, and I mean no one, has stated that Theo was going to be our savior, nor that he would automatically make us much better.

Don't forget that there was a ton of debate prior to his injury about whether or not he would even start. I was one of the ones who favored starting Kenny at the two spot and using Theo as an energy guy off the bench to spell JJ or Kenny, and to swing down to PF in our small lineup. Others were opposed to that, saying he should start. But there was considerable difference of opinion on whether he should even start. What we all seemed to agree on was that he was one of our top 5-6 players and should get 25 MPG.

Of course it's going to take a while for him to get up to speed. And of course there's always the possibility that he might not get up to speed this year. Regardless, his return will be a lift to the team. As I stated, my guess is that he will come off the bench, at least initially, in relief of JJ or Kenny. Believe me, I don't think anyone's expecting him to come in and average 15 PPG. But by the end of January, I don't think a handful of points, 3-4 boards, and a couple of assists are unreasonable. Add versatile defense to that, allowing us to go small, and you have a valuable asset to this team.

That's all we're saying.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Guys, I think you're being a little overreactive here. No one, and I mean no one, has stated that Theo was going to be our savior, nor that he would automatically make us much better.

Don't forget that there was a ton of debate prior to his injury about whether or not he would even start. I was one of the ones who favored starting Kenny at the two spot and using Theo as an energy guy off the bench to spell JJ or Kenny, and to swing down to PF in our small lineup. Others were opposed to that, saying he should start. But there was considerable difference of opinion on whether he should even start. What we all seemed to agree on was that he was one of our top 5-6 players and should get 25 MPG.

Of course it's going to take a while for him to get up to speed. And of course there's always the possibility that he might not get up to speed this year. Regardless, his return will be a lift to the team. As I stated, my guess is that he will come off the bench, at least initially, in relief of JJ or Kenny. Believe me, I don't think anyone's expecting him to come in and average 15 PPG. But by the end of January, I don't think a handful of points, 3-4 boards, and a couple of assists are unreasonable. Add versatile defense to that, allowing us to go small, and you have a valuable asset to this team.

That's all we're saying.

As one of those who thought (and advocated) that the starting SG spot was Theo's to lose, I nevertheless agree with nearly all of what you said - except the part I highlighted. A lot of people have been saying that. Savior, no; much better, yes.

And frankly, I agree with the much better prognostication - assuming he is 100% or very close to it.

At the beginning of the season the Theo questions were whether his shooting would improve and whether he could stay focused.

Nothing has really changed since then. He still needs to show improved shooting and focus. But we've now added 2 additional needs: get healthy, and catch up with his teammates. The sooner those 2 are taken care of, the sooner we'll see if the original 2 have been resolved.

Even though I originally agreed with those who thought Theo should start at SG, under the current circumstances, I think easing him back in in the role he played last year makes more sense.

Whereas at the beginning of the season I thought SG should be Theo's to lose, I now think the starting SG spot should be Kenny's to lose. And I still might start Nate in some circumstances because of his experience and cool head. Kenny is pretty cool, too, but he still needs more exposure to games like Indiana and Kentucky to get where Nate is.

 

[Archer2]

Even though I originally agreed with those who thought Theo should start at SG, under the current circumstances, I think easing him back in in the role he played last year makes more sense.

I agree completely. And even though he's been cleared for "basketball activities" and is "ahead of schedule", Roy has already said he thinks it will be closer to 12 weeks than 8. So he's fully aware that it will take time to get Theo up to speed.

Whereas at the beginning of the season I thought SG should be Theo's to lose, I now think the starting SG spot should be Kenny's to lose.

I thought I remembered you as being a huge advocate for not only starting Theo at SG, but not moving him around much so he could focus on learning the SG spot. I argued that Theo's versatility was his biggest asset and liked the idea of him playing multiple positions. With his injury, we might not know how it would have shaken out. Regardless, I'm glad we're getting his services back fairly soon.

And I still might start Nate in some circumstances because of his experience and cool head. Kenny is pretty cool, too, but he still needs more exposure to games like Indiana and Kentucky to get where Nate is.

Here's where our opinions really diverge. I would prefer not to see Nate start another game this year. I just think Kenny brings more to the table, offensively and defensively. I think Nate is better suited to coming off the bench in relief of Joel. I felt that way prior to the season and nothing has happened to change my opinion.

As Roy pares down his rotation and we hopefully get Theo back, I see Nate/Luke/7th all losing minutes. Brandon, OTOH, has demonstrated he is deserving of increased minutes. The same could be said of Tony.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I thought I remembered you as being a huge advocate for not only starting Theo at SG, but not moving him around much so he could focus on learning the SG spot.

Exactly right.

But the injury changes that calculation. I still think that should be the goal. I just don't know if it's realistic any more. I want Theo back as soon as health permits. And I think he'll get up to speed fastest doing what's familiar - meaning playing a role more like what he played last season.

Plus, although Brandon is coming on recently, he really doesn't have the strength to play SF. Makes a good effort at it, though, and should be excellent backing up Theo at SF next year if he can add good muscle mass - assuming we don't land Knox (which I don't expect we will).

My main reason for wanting Theo to stick mainly to 1 position was to help with the focus and BB IQ issues he sometimes exhibits. It's easier to master 1 position, and to know what to do playing that position, than to constantly be bounced around among 3 positions. Or so it seems to me.

Frankly, it doesn't matter to me if he masters SG or SF, but we already have a star SF, so SG was what was available.

If Theo is not up to speed quickly, I'd probably have him play SF and a little PF the rest of the way. The virtue of learning SG diminishes a lot if he can't play a lot of minutes there. Might as well stick to what he knows, and will be doing next year.

 

[superstar57]

If Theo is suppose to give us 20 or even 15 pts a game then I would say, yes it is unrealistic, but the reason why the expectation level is so high is because we have seen without him we have zero problems scoring and better 3 point shooting team. We don't need Theo to do that either. All we need from Theo is to be versatile and a leader. Hell he did that last year. To answer your question, no expectations are not unrealistic because he is does not have to improve in any area and his versatility and defense will make us better.

 

[RoseHeel]

Starting to feel some fans are putting on Pinson what we bashed Duke for regarding Jefferson last season.

Not taking anything away from Pinson, but we haven't seen him play real competition yet. I don't expect him to have this team skyrocket to success, but I think he will be a solid contributor and do expect to be pleasantly surprised once he returns.

 

[coryfly]

Well, Duke fans were kind of right about Jefferson in a way. He is pretty good. I think the comparison is a pretty good one actually. They both provide things for their team that no one else really does. I think if he comes back healthy he does actually make us a lot better. I think him coming back completely healthy is a big question though.

 

[gary-7]

Yes the young man will be back soon which will make Carolina a deeper and stronger team but are fans expecting more than Pinson can realistically deliver.

How many threads have there been about how Pinson would have made the difference both offensively and defensively In both of the losses and how he would be the answer to all of the rotating players presently manning the SHOOTING GUARD position.

I boldly printed SHOOTING GUARD because like Jackie Manuel who also played the two, Pinson has not proven to this observer that he can consisted hit from the outside. Now if he can play defense like Jackie did then I will gladly take that but let's be honest here a two guards job is to shoot the rock and rip the nets.

I hope I am wrong but I think many who post here think Pinson will be the savior of the team and even coming off a long time of not playing due to a injury his presence will mean a final four team.

Everyone needs to give Theo some time to work his way back into the rotation and not expect a miracle worker whose sheer presence puts Carolina over the top.

Theo will be and is a important piece of the puzzle on how far UNC dances in March but to expect him to make that big of a difference immediately is unrealistic and very unfair to him...

Anything "unrealistic" is on the fan. His impact WILL be major, but relative to what is already a legit top-5 team. With Theo back we will see the natural rotation taking on its character and who will see reduced minutes. We will also be able to play small on whim. I think it's pretty obvious 7th will see his minutes diminish and likely BRob to a lesser extent. Nate, unless his shooting picks up may also feel the effect, although he may see more time at Point since 7th can't be trusted in tight games yet.

Honestly though, I don't see the point of downplaying his impact. We'll be adding another of our best players who has the versatility to play the 2, 3 and 4 and actually guard while he is doing it.

 

[DSouthr]

I think 7th minutes have already been reduced and could drop some more, he got 11min last night, most he has had in the last couple games. If nate is not dropping shots it is hard to see him not lose minutes at the 2. Kinda have to see Brob lose minutes but he will have to when Theo gets back, I just enjoy watching BRob play, he isn't ready for prime time but in time he will be. Luke is going to lose some minutes to and frankly he has been playing a few more than I expected.