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Barcelona Attack

Hark_The_Sound_2010

Hark_The_Sound_2010

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Nov 10, 2009
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Thoughts/prayers going out to those victims in the Barcelona attack from today. Spain's prime minister is calling it a Jihadist Attack. Islamic State is taking credit for the killings. Very sad and troubling that it seems like every month there's another European city hit by one of these attacks.

I realize this most likely won't get as much coverage in the US, partially due to the fact that it happened in another country, but figured the victims deserved their own thread.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/l...van-driven-into-crowd-in-las-ramblas-district
 
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At least it wasn't rednecks pretending to be Nazis who did this, because if that were the case, it would mean the end of civilization.
 
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So ridiculous and sad. Thoughts are definitely with the people there at this time.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
I guess he's learning from the people who ripped him for not being quick enough with Charlottesville. Guy can't win. He waits, he's bashed - he does it promptly, he's bashed.
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I don't think that is the point, nor does it make sense. He is always quick to condemn anything like this, which he should. So he didn't 'learn' anything from Charlottesville. It just wasn't people who support him. It isn't about learning but who is involved. He is dead on with his condemnation though. He just shouldn't have been so flippant with the other stuff.
 
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tazki said:
It was Isis .
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Today it was reportedly ISIS. Saturday it was reportedly a white supremacist. For the latter he waited two days to condemn the murderer. The former, less than two hours.

Which are you implying, ISIS > white supremacists or white supremacists > ISIS?
 
Heels Noir said:
Today it was reportedly ISIS. Saturday it was reportedly a white supremacist. For the latter he waited two days to condemn the murderer. The former, less than two hours.

Which are you implying, ISIS > white supremacists or white supremacists > ISIS?
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Really dude? You libs are amazing. He denounced both. Sorry you didn't like the fact that he actually called out the wacko leftist too. Finally we have a leader that actually does.
 
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Agreed he should have been quicker to condemn the Charlottesville event. But I don't think he should be criticized for his haste in this one just because of that.

The white supremacists and the Islamic supremacists are both vile creatures and should be condemned. But speaking of false moral equivalences... how did this thread about Islamic supremacists in Barcelona get correlated back to the issues in Charlottesville?
 
tazki said:
Really dude? You libs are amazing. He denounced both. Sorry you didn't like the fact that he actually called out the wacko leftist too. Finally we have a leader that actually does.
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First of all I'm a moderate. Second, there was plenty of blame to go around this weekend and I have not criticized Trump for his comments regarding that. And third, I shouldn't have given you the benefit of the doubt.

The correct answer, which I fully expected you to deliver, is that ISIS and the white supremacists both deserve equal condemnation. Instead, you lash out at me and support the President, whom by the way is a pretty pathetic excuse for a "leader."
 
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Heels Noir said:
First of all I'm a moderate.
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cletusnow said:
Just heard that Trump has preemptively condemned all future murders/terrorist attacks/hate speech/klan rallies and bullies that steal lunch money.
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Oh, good. Now he can enjoy the rest of his extended vacation without further interruption. Golf, anyone?
 
coryfly said:
I don't think that is the point, nor does it make sense. He is always quick to condemn anything like this, which he should. So he didn't 'learn' anything from Charlottesville. It just wasn't people who support him. It isn't about learning but who is involved. He is dead on with his condemnation though. He just shouldn't have been so flippant with the other stuff.
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If he should be quick to condemn this, then why the need to bring up past instances? What's the problem with just saying "good job by Trump here", and leaving it at that? People try to minimize anything good he does by bringing up things they think he hasn't done as well with. I just think that's being unfair and counterproductive.

People make Trump out to be the enemy when they could be directing that time/energy to the white supremacists and Islamic supremacists and Antifa and all those type groups instead.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
If he should be quick to condemn this, then why the need to bring up past instances? What's the problem with just saying "good job by Trump here", and leaving it at that? People try to minimize anything good he does by bringing up things they think he hasn't done as well with. I just think that's being unfair and counterproductive.

People make Trump out to be the enemy when they could be directing that time/energy to the white supremacists and Islamic supremacists and Antifa and all those type groups instead.
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Just a note on Trump from my POV. His biggest problem, to me, is his divisiveness. Obama had the same problem, especially early on, and like to gloat or rub it in. Trump promised to bring us together, yet he seemingly goes out of his way to be the most divisive president of my lifetime. While I didn't vote for the man, I was very excited about the prospect of HC reform, Infastructure, and Taxes. Yet with every tweet, he further limits his support, which in turn limits the prospect of any meaningful reform.

If democrats pick up any seats in 2018, he is effectively done with only SCOTUS as a lasting impact. He really is turning out to be a feckless leader. Republicans will run against him in 2020. I'm not sure the GOP will officially support them, but they will run regardless.
 
Hark_The_Sound_2010 said:
If he should be quick to condemn this, then why the need to bring up past instances? What's the problem with just saying "good job by Trump here", and leaving it at that? People try to minimize anything good he does by bringing up things they think he hasn't done as well with. I just think that's being unfair and counterproductive.

People make Trump out to be the enemy when they could be directing that time/energy to the white supremacists and Islamic supremacists and Antifa and all those type groups instead.
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I mean, me directing my time/energy to the supremacists and is just me knocking it around here with you guys. Saying to just congratulate Trump but not discussing the differences (which is pretty relevant to the current discussion) in his approach is just a way to ignore why that difference exists.
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
When will Europe learn to shut its borders to Muslims? How many have to die?
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These attacks aren't just being perpetrated by people who just entered European countries. Many are being perpetrated by disaffected youth whose families immigrated to those countries a generation or more ago. They're natural born citizens.

I've said many times, there's simply no stopping these attacks. You hope and pray that intelligence operations intercept as many of them as possible, but they're never going to prevent them all. This is the new way of life in many parts of the world. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more attacks here in the US than we have.

And as I'm typing these words, there's a breaking report of several people being stabbed in Finland.
 
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Raising Heel said:
These attacks aren't being perpetrated by people who just entered European countries. They're being perpetrated by disaffected youth whose families immigrated to those countries a generation or more ago. They're natural born citizens.

I've said many times, there's simply no stopping these attacks. You hope and pray that intelligence operations intercept as many of them as possible, but they're never going to prevent them all. This is the new way of life in many parts of the world. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more attacks here in the US than we have.

And as I'm typing these words, there's a breaking report of several people being stabbed in Finland.
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You and I have talked about this before, and I agree that generally there's only so much you can do to stop these attacks. But national leaders have to do something to try to prevent this stuff, rather than being like the London mayor and basically just saying "well, this is our way of life now." Sure, it's OK for you or I to say that on a message board, but the leader of one of the world's most iconic cities cannot express that viewpoint publicly!

I know many would see it as unethical, but these European countries (and the U.S.) have to think about a ban on all future immigrants from Arab and heavily-Muslim countries. Those are the only two links/criteria we have to go on. Civil rights groups will bitch about it, but it's the only thing I see that has a chance of even slightly mitigating the chance of these attacks.

@ticket2ride04 lemme know what I did wrong in this poast.
 
TarHeelNation11 said:
You and I have talked about this before, and I agree that generally there's only so much you can do to stop these attacks. But national leaders have to do something to try to prevent this stuff, rather than being like the London mayor and basically just saying "well, this is our way of life now." Sure, it's OK for you or I to say that on a message board, but the leader of one of the world's most iconic cities cannot express that viewpoint publicly!

I know many would see it as unethical, but these European countries (and the U.S.) have to think about a ban on all future immigrants from Arab and heavily-Muslim countries. Those are the only two links/criteria we have to go on. Civil rights groups will bitch about it, but it's the only thing I see that has a chance of even slightly mitigating the chance of these attacks.

@ticket2ride04 lemme know what I did wrong in this poast.
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Not much actually. Touché. IMO, we absolutely need to heavily vet people from ME and Muslim centric countries. Europe has long prided themselves on accepting immigrants and they've had these issues before. I'd suggest they adopt more of a US approach and not only heavily vet people coming in, but up their surveillance of the populace at large.
 
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ticket2ride04 said:
Not much actually. Touché. IMO, we absolutely need to heavily vet people from ME and Muslim centric countries. Europe has long prided themselves on accepting immigrants and they've had these issues before. I'd suggest they adopt more of a US approach and not only heavily vet people coming in, but up their surveillance of the populace at large.
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This reminds me of you two right now.
 
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Raising Heel said:
These attacks aren't just being perpetrated by people who just entered European countries. Many are being perpetrated by disaffected youth whose families immigrated to those countries a generation or more ago. They're natural born citizens.

I've said many times, there's simply no stopping these attacks. You hope and pray that intelligence operations intercept as many of them as possible, but they're never going to prevent them all. This is the new way of life in many parts of the world. Frankly, I'm surprised we haven't seen more attacks here in the US than we have.

And as I'm typing these words, there's a breaking report of several people being stabbed in Finland.
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You know what prevents these attacks (or at least greatly decreases the chances) from happening in the US moving forward?

29425571631_f3b9b160be_192sq.jpg
 
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TarHeelNation11 said:
I know many would see it as unethical, but these European countries (and the U.S.) have to think about a ban on all future immigrants from Arab and heavily-Muslim countries. Those are the only two links/criteria we have to go on. Civil rights groups will bitch about it, but it's the only thing I see that has a chance of even slightly mitigating the chance of these attacks.
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Did you know?: The Iberian Peninsula (Spain + Portugal) was occupied by the Moors of Northern Africa from the 8th through 15th centuries? That some 10% of the Spanish language is based on Arabic root words? That there are two Spanish cities on the north coast of Morocco?

I'm not sure whether your proposal is a practical one. As Americans, we have a relatively narrow perspective on immigration because we have Canada to the north, oceans to the east and west, and Mexico to the south, and only one of these borders is problematic. Some of the factoids above demonstrate the open exchanges of culture, i.e. people and ideas, that have occurred and continue to occur between countries that don't share our geographic isolation.

So maybe not an outright ban, but a more rigorous vetting process than what's currently in place. Also, additional resources to monitor potential terrorist activity and maybe even explore ways to prevent the radicalization of the disaffected parties in the first place.
 
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Raising Heel said:
Did you know?: The Iberian Peninsula (Spain + Portugal) was occupied by the Moors of Northern Africa from the 8th through 15th centuries? That some 10% of the Spanish language is based on Arabic root words? That there are two Spanish cities on the north coast of Morocco?
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I did indeed. I was a whiz kid in AP World History. Easily the most fascinating class I took in high school. The Arab "advance" through North Africa, and then through Spain and into Western Europe was halted by Charles Martel in 732 at the Battle of Tours.

Raising Heel said:
So maybe not an outright ban, but a more rigorous vetting process than what's currently in place. Also, additional resources to monitor potential terrorist activity and maybe even explore ways to prevent the radicalization of the disaffected parties in the first place.
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Yes, this sounds like a solid alternative to an outright ban, but it seems like it would only work on paper, not so much in practice.
 
nctransplant said:
Barrack wants in on that tee time.
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Number of leisure days for Trump through the end of August 2017 (projected): 53
Rounds of golf for Trump through the end of August 2017 (projected): 33
Number of leisure days for Obama through the end of August 2009: 15
Rounds of golf for Obama through the end of August 2009: 17

“I would rarely leave the White House because there’s so much work to be done. I would not be a president who took vacations. I would not be a president that takes time off.”
Donald Trump, June 2015
 
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gunslingerdick said:
It's only a problem if you don't have a loyalty to this home team.
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Using reasonable thought to solve your country's problems in no way shows a lack of loyalty. Of course turning a blind eye to it isn't necessarily disloyal, either. Stupid maybe, but not disloyal.
 
Heels Noir said:
Using reasonable thought to solve your country's problems in no way shows a lack of loyalty. Of course turning a blind eye to it isn't necessarily disloyal, either. Stupid maybe, but not disloyal.
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I'm for what helps America. If that means another country takes it on the chin, then so be it.
 
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