Big 10 about to add more very soon?
- Thread starter dtodd4475
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If/When the ACC goes bust, it has no one but itself to blame for their demise. They saw the writing on the wall and spent about a decade doing nothing about it while the rest of the Power 5s were busy beefing up.
Hope we still manage to keep our rivalry with Duke if we get split up.
Hope we still manage to keep our rivalry with Duke if we get split up.
If the B1G wanted Oregon and Washington, they would have already added them when they stole UCLA and USC.
If any ACC team could escape the GoR, it would have already happened.
I'm extremely skeptical. Every time there is any realignment, we hear tons of additional rumors. But 99% of those rumors are just talking heads fishing for more social media engagement, and premium sites trying to lure in more subscribers.
Could be, but I would bet dollars to donuts those two end up Big 10. With Colorado now leaving the Pac 10 is now even more toast, so I wouldn't be surprised with Washington and Oregon announcing soon, next week soon. In any event I believe it's just a question of when not if. Then Arizona and Arizona St. Big 12 bound.
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Agreed. It is reminiscent of how the NCAA dragged out the inevitable and stuck thier head in the sand with NIL, then when their stall tactics ran out and the inevitable happened they had/have zilch ready on thier end.
If the Big 10 can get 4 more teams they could have some sort of divisional games between those on the west coast to save some travel money and then they'd also have time slots from noon to midnight for Saturday football games. Think about the next TV contact there.
If the B1G wanted Washington and Oregon, why didn't they take them when they took UCLA and USC? Could it be that Washington and Oregon don't increase the the overall TV revenue enough to warrant the current B1G schools splitting the pie amongst 2 more schools? If I had to guess, the B1G won't be adding any more schools until ACC schools become available.
And where did you get the impression the Big 12 wants Arizona State?
There aren't many schools left that will actually increase future TV contracts enough to make it worthwhile. Every BIG team gets an equal share of the pie. A new school has to increase the pie enough that the revenue split increases per team. I don't get the impression any remaining Pac 12 members are valuable enough to the contract makers (which is why the Pac 12 is currently struggling to find a good deal.)
If the B1G sticks to their rules about only inviting AAU members then the only schools who would definitely increase their TV deal enough to be worth an invite are Notre Dame, UNC, UVA, and maybe Miami.
I think they are expanding in sections, it is an ongoing expansion, an arms race with the SEC. LA was a key get, but I do not think they are done out west, the northwest will be helpful with that.
As for Arizona State they are the Phoenix market, a booming area in population growth. I also believe AZ. State wants to go now as well. Big 12 is said to have been courting them for over a year, but ASU was not very receptive. They are a bigger market then Utah, but Utah is eyeing the jump as well. U of Arizona has a board of regents meeting set for next week, I believe, could move quickly like Colorado did. The Big 12 said the original plan was to add up to 14 for now, but are plenty open for more.
Pac 10 last gasp media deal meeting better knock some socks off. Looking like the San Diego State's of the world will be joining in my opinion as the exodus continues. I do agree that the defections to the Big 12 will come first.
The problem with the Big 12 offering Oregon and/or Washington which they would love is those two will not lock in long term and will jettison as soon as the Big 10 opens up to them. Why I think AZ, AZ State, and Utah are their best fits.
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If UNC joins the Big Ten, I'll get to see us play MD again. I'd like that.
Of course I'll have to switch to a streaming package that has full B10 coverage. The Sling package I usually get doesn't have that. I think they have a different package for that, but at what price and what else do I lose.
I wish some streaming service would just offer NCAA basketball package for a reasonable price.
Of course I'll have to switch to a streaming package that has full B10 coverage. The Sling package I usually get doesn't have that. I think they have a different package for that, but at what price and what else do I lose.
I wish some streaming service would just offer NCAA basketball package for a reasonable price.
If UNC bolts to greener pastures, how many (or which) other ACC teams would have to leave before you stop caring about the ACC?
I mean would you still watch an ACC where the top teams are a Boeheim-less Syracuse, a Capel-led Pitt, a perpetually unsteady NC State and, of course, Boston College?
I imagine I would still watch the occasional ACC contest, but I also imagine that after a year or 2 I might stop caring.
I say that because when MD left the ACC, I thought "well, I'll just watch them in the Big 10." But instead, I basically stopped watching them at all.
I mean would you still watch an ACC where the top teams are a Boeheim-less Syracuse, a Capel-led Pitt, a perpetually unsteady NC State and, of course, Boston College?
I imagine I would still watch the occasional ACC contest, but I also imagine that after a year or 2 I might stop caring.
I say that because when MD left the ACC, I thought "well, I'll just watch them in the Big 10." But instead, I basically stopped watching them at all.
You're assuming an ACC will even exist. By the time the other three conferences (both bigs and the SEC) grab what they want, I'm not sure there will be enough to sustain it. I could see a situation where the teams left just go to G5 conferences because they'll get more money.
50 years ago college basketball was the betamax machine and college football was the VHS version. Beta was the better machine but VHS was available in a longer format and not as pricey. The NCAA basketball tournament was expanding but football was drawing more interest throughout the season. Attending a basketball game was an event but football games with the tailgating and post-game was an all day affair. I still remember my freshman year hosting LSU and those damn RV's rolling through campus at 8 in a huge caravan.
The ACC was king of basketball and their tournament was gold. The small conference and familiarity with each other seemed like the recipe for success for the future. The prominence of the Big East as a basketball only conference doing well in the huge northeast media market appeared to support that idea.
Unfortunately the TV folks wanted more than that weekend and a handful of games scattered throughout the season that had more than just regional interest. The ND deal with NBC started the ball rolling and with expanding cable networks there was the demand for more programming. Football was the bell cow for all the other conferences and the networks were willing to pay big bucks for that Saturday entertainment.
Now the best basketball players will only be in college for a year but the football guys are there for three. The face of college basketball is a guy like Bacot or Zach Edey who are in college still mainly because they do not have a pro game.
I do not know when it will happen but the ACC cannot survive as a conference in my opinion. There is just too much money the other conferences can offer and college football does not have the anchor of a dysfunctional NCAA calling the shots. It was a great run but it ain't coming back. Fortunately UNC is one of the ACC schools that the remaining conferences will be wanting to get, and not relegated to being someone else's "plus one".
The ACC was king of basketball and their tournament was gold. The small conference and familiarity with each other seemed like the recipe for success for the future. The prominence of the Big East as a basketball only conference doing well in the huge northeast media market appeared to support that idea.
Unfortunately the TV folks wanted more than that weekend and a handful of games scattered throughout the season that had more than just regional interest. The ND deal with NBC started the ball rolling and with expanding cable networks there was the demand for more programming. Football was the bell cow for all the other conferences and the networks were willing to pay big bucks for that Saturday entertainment.
Now the best basketball players will only be in college for a year but the football guys are there for three. The face of college basketball is a guy like Bacot or Zach Edey who are in college still mainly because they do not have a pro game.
I do not know when it will happen but the ACC cannot survive as a conference in my opinion. There is just too much money the other conferences can offer and college football does not have the anchor of a dysfunctional NCAA calling the shots. It was a great run but it ain't coming back. Fortunately UNC is one of the ACC schools that the remaining conferences will be wanting to get, and not relegated to being someone else's "plus one".
If you are another conference, do you try to get both UNC and Duke? Back when it was Dean/Roy and K, that would be a no-brainer question. And bringing in the top rivalry intact would definitely have been worth big money.
But how about now?
Both Hubert and Scheyer had good first seasons. Then Hubert slipped - but we expect him to be back in his 3rd season.
If I'm another conference I probably want both teams, but I'd probably also like to see what happens this season. Trouble with that is while I'm waiting to see what happens, some other conference swoops in and grabs them up.
But how about now?
Both Hubert and Scheyer had good first seasons. Then Hubert slipped - but we expect him to be back in his 3rd season.
If I'm another conference I probably want both teams, but I'd probably also like to see what happens this season. Trouble with that is while I'm waiting to see what happens, some other conference swoops in and grabs them up.
Look guys, I have followed this discussion, this thread as well as others and ya know what it all comes down to? It simply comes down to the fact that the ACC has to start winning big games, ACC teams that do that will get paid, it may not come quickly but it will come. Bottom line is sports fans follow the winners and the money flows. TV deals are what they are based on what fans want to see and fans want to see winning teams play and win competitive games.
Was not that long ago Miami and FSU were dominant, Clemson has had a really nice run, not talking a couple nice seasons but extended runs where they were always ion consideration of best team in the country. When I was a kid the power football programs nationally were Oky, Nebraska, Texas and S Cal. Now days seems like most of the power teams in football are in the SEC, so it means ACC teams need to find a way to beat SEC teams. If we can beat the gamecocks in our opening game this season it would make a huge statement not just to the strength of UNC but the ACC itself. That and the ACC teams, especially us need to win bowl games, coming close but not winning them is not good enough.
Conferences flourish when they have multiple power programs in it, power programs that win big time games and they falter when they do not have that. That is the ACC's problem, they have to figure out how to beat teams that have higher rated athletes and great facilities. It is the fly wheel effect, it isn't easy to get started but once you do it becomes easier to maintain. Once it has taken on it's own momentum the $$$ begin to flow because the fans want more. This isn't nor should it be about UNC changing conferences or the ACC folding in the future, it should be, it has to be about UNC winning football games at the level power teams are suppose to even if out manned in some of our games.
Was not that long ago Miami and FSU were dominant, Clemson has had a really nice run, not talking a couple nice seasons but extended runs where they were always ion consideration of best team in the country. When I was a kid the power football programs nationally were Oky, Nebraska, Texas and S Cal. Now days seems like most of the power teams in football are in the SEC, so it means ACC teams need to find a way to beat SEC teams. If we can beat the gamecocks in our opening game this season it would make a huge statement not just to the strength of UNC but the ACC itself. That and the ACC teams, especially us need to win bowl games, coming close but not winning them is not good enough.
Conferences flourish when they have multiple power programs in it, power programs that win big time games and they falter when they do not have that. That is the ACC's problem, they have to figure out how to beat teams that have higher rated athletes and great facilities. It is the fly wheel effect, it isn't easy to get started but once you do it becomes easier to maintain. Once it has taken on it's own momentum the $$$ begin to flow because the fans want more. This isn't nor should it be about UNC changing conferences or the ACC folding in the future, it should be, it has to be about UNC winning football games at the level power teams are suppose to even if out manned in some of our games.
I do not think the UNC/Dook matchup matters much to Big10 or the SEC. I doubt when the ACC dissipates that UNC/Dook will be connected at all. They each will have to negotiate individually. Dook is in a much worse position to do so. Their best hope is to somehow get UNC to allow them to hitch there wagon with UNC. Not gonna happen.
Big12 wants the elite hoops conference, but college hoops is small, small potatoes compared to the gridiron. UNC is Big10 or SEC bound if and when moving time arrives.
All kind of smoke from Florida State paying 300 million to escape. If they do I think UNC has to crap or get off the pot before Clemson does. It's a huge buyout, yes, 200 million above the record paid by Texas and Oklahoma, but will quickly be recouped and then some within a decade.
Things are going to be really interesting these next couple of weeks, with Arizona possibly being the first domino to fall.
Things are going to be really interesting these next couple of weeks, with Arizona possibly being the first domino to fall.
The Washington and Oregon buzz is heating up. Big10 looking at 20 teams still. Possibly even Cal and Stanford if the ACC teams can't pony up enough to buy out of the ACC at present. As usual Notre Dame and their future intentions probably put a big not so fast to these type moves though.
The former Pac 10 teams including Washington and Oregon would get a share similar to Maryland and Rutgers deal to join, which is not a full revenue share, but still a large upgrade for the schools.
The former Pac 10 teams including Washington and Oregon would get a share similar to Maryland and Rutgers deal to join, which is not a full revenue share, but still a large upgrade for the schools.
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Whole lot of smoke originating from the FSU messageboards, and being repeated on Twitter.
FSU signed on to the GoR. They aren't leaving the ACC without forfeiting all their media revenue through 2036. And the ACC has absolutely no reason to negotiate and let them off the hook for a mere $300 million.
And no lawyer has found a hole in the GoR, so despite their posturing FSU has no chance of winning in court. They signed the contract.
Drew Weatherford who's on the board of trustees at FSU said it's not if we leave it's how and when. That's pretty um well. Yeah declarative. He didn't mention the whole how they get over the zillion legal hurdles.
It's an iron clad deal for sure, but these schools are going to make it dysfunctional for the conference moving forward. At some point I think they will have to find a deal or all involved will be cutting their nose off to spite their face. It's gonna get UG-LEE !!!!!!
I think the Big and SEC are going to both get to 20 soon and pause to see what happens with the ACC. If/when that happens tomorrow or 10 years from now, they'll expand to 24.
Considering how many bad football seasons FSU has had recently, it's kind of funny to hear these various FSU guys talking like FSU is this amazing school that deserves a bigger share of the ACC pie.
I've already accepted the idea that the ACC is going to disintegrate around 2036. I would absolutely love it if FSU was stupid enough to try to leave now, forfeiting like a billion dollars to the ACC over the next 13 years. That would just mean UNC gets a lot more money over the next 13 years. But I suspect the lawyers will advise FSU against it after years of looking for a hole in the GoR that doesn't exist.
Still... every day the news reports something new and incredibly stupid coming out of the state of Florida. Hence the "Florida Man" meme. So I suppose there is at least a small chance FSU will make an insanely dumb decision to break the GoR and bankrupt their athletic department.
I've already accepted the idea that the ACC is going to disintegrate around 2036. I would absolutely love it if FSU was stupid enough to try to leave now, forfeiting like a billion dollars to the ACC over the next 13 years. That would just mean UNC gets a lot more money over the next 13 years. But I suspect the lawyers will advise FSU against it after years of looking for a hole in the GoR that doesn't exist.
Still... every day the news reports something new and incredibly stupid coming out of the state of Florida. Hence the "Florida Man" meme. So I suppose there is at least a small chance FSU will make an insanely dumb decision to break the GoR and bankrupt their athletic department.
It won't break them. Big boosters will basically finance it, like a long term investment that will pay big dividends in 20 years. Y'all looking at this wrong. This is opportunity knocking. We better start throwing our name in this hat.
I think it is easy, at least for me, to not really grasp the outrageous amounts of money this industry is reaping, and growing the bottom line. It's corporate takeover type level stuff, huge economic movers and shakers at the highest levels.
I understand the 50 years ago comparisons, but that is like people in the 70's or 80's pointing to the way it was when the Ivy League, U. of Chicago, Michigan, and Notre Dame were about all there really was, 50 years prior to the 70's and 80's. Things were changing, and they were not going back. Same time span. Worlds apart.
Investing a short term billion to reap long term multi billions is the level the mega industry of college athletics is at.
In fighting, etc., corporate takeover type machinations. The type of ugly that is often associated with those type industry battles over controlling the billions and how they go after it.
Someone here should tell this guy what TV ratings and brand value are. Two things that are very high for FSU. That's more important for these conferences.
This is correct. There is no way in hell the ACC is lasting u til 2036. The SEC and The B1G will help those relocating figure out a deal. It will get ugly for sure. The ACC and their media partners need to accept their fate and attempt to work this thing out.
And Carolina needs to be on the forefront. I wish I was hearing about Carolina offering $300 million to leave. That would mean we’re trying to beat everyone to the punch rather than reacting when forced.
I reckon I’d be content with either but would prefer the SEC as the landing spot.
Big boosters are going to cover the loss of 13 years worth of media rights?
You realize how absurd that sounds right?
If Boosters had that much money to throw away, they'd just give it directly to FSU to more than make up for the difference between ACC tv payments and SEC tv payments, and make FSU the king of the ACC every year in football until the conference falls apart in 2036.
For all the bitching and moaning and threats and imaginary buyouts and booster payment plans coming from FSU sources... FSU still hasn't left the ACC. There's no indication their lawyers have figured out a way to stop the GoR from bankrupting their athletics department. Wake me up when they actually file the paperwork to leave. Bc they make these same complaints and threats every few months, but they always chicken out bc they are scared of the GoR.
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Could someone help out a brother with a short explanation of GoR and why it's so hard to get out of?
It might not be with a legal challenge which will drain money to have, but it in theory gives the rights to all home games of the signing teams to ESPN until 2036. ESPN would have to stab the ACC in the back to allow them out of it, and surely wouldn't to allow them to the NBC/Fox Big 10. Thus it would be a pitched legal fight. Which kind of wouldn't be easy to unwind if it didn't go their way.
GoR is a major hurdle as long as the conference exists. My understanding is that it only takes a majority of the teams (8) to vote to dissolve. If 7 are actually considering options they only need to pull in one more. No conference then no GoR issue.
I don't think it's if the ACC will end but when. Just too much $$$ to be made elsewhere.
I don't think it's if the ACC will end but when. Just too much $$$ to be made elsewhere.
So it's a contract with ESPN that binds every ACC school?
What did the ACC and ACC schools get out of it? Who got the kickbacks? Has ESPN been living up to its side of the bargain?
Back in the day, the Articles of Confederation didn't allow for anyone to leave. But the states just did it anyway.
What would happen if all ACC schools said "we done"?
Not to quibble, but the Articles of Confederation was gone almost 100 years already after Shay's Rebellion before the the southern state tried to just "do it anyway".
South Carolina did claim cessation from the U.S. Constitution and attacked Fort Sumter to announce they were serious about no longer being part, and other like minded states joined them and they claimed to be the Confederate States of America now. But that obviously wasn't just taken as well "they're done" that's it.😆
I assume the schools would band together and their resources and try to battle the iron clad contract in court. If they lose though, wheater they play in the ACC or somewhere else, I believe all of their media money would be forfeited until the contract expires. Which defeats why they would be leaving in the first place.
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About a decade ago, during one of the expansion phases, Maryland was reeling from Debbie Yow nearly bankrupting their athletic department. So they jumped at an offer from the Big Ten. The ACC's exit fee wasn't that punitive and the contract wasn't ironclad, so Maryland guessed correctly they'd be able to leave without paying the full fee.
John Swofford got the remaining ACC schools together and formulated a plan to keep the conference together based around the new TV contract and the additions of Louisville and Notre Dame (in all sports but football.) The new contract included a Grant of Rights, which in essence means that any school that leaves the ACC before 2036 will forfeit their media rights to the ACC through the end of the contract.
The GoR was agreed upon and signed by everyone specifically because it was so punitive and ironclad, that all the members believed it would prevent another Maryland from bolting. It was supposed to keep the ACC together. And it's doing that job.
Wow. You jumped straight to the Civil War.
I was talking about moving from the Articles of Confederation to the US Constitution.
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