Boogie pulls out of the draft
- Thread starter UncTwinz
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HD's misuse of players via PT and screwy offensive/defensive schemes this past season (or 2) is causing and will continue to cause potential incoming players to second guess both the brand, program and coach. I commented about this 2 seasons ago when HD kept pulling EC before halfs and during critical game learning opportunities in deference to RJ and again last season when EC was clearly not being given the so called "keys" again in favor of RJ and and a stupid offensive scheme and now the chickens are coming home to roost and UNC had a ton of talent fly the coop this year for likely similar reasons. jmo
First JPowell is considered to be a + defender according to many experts including David Sisk and AJ. Very interesting that you say what JPow can't do, considering he was a freshman last season. As for your retort about Drake, I didn't equate Drake to JPow, I simply gave their production numbers, sorry they did not turn out like you may have wanted.
Like it or not, JPowell is now a Tar Heel player and a player that deserves a degree of respect, calling him anything less than a Starter quality player is to me disrespectful and inaccurate.
My #1 priority is a 5 to back up Veesaar and I am not really concerned with the other needs so many feel desperate for. Give me that back up 5 and I am perfectly happy to go in to the season. I think I like our freshman class far more than most seem to, have watched a good bit of Denis as of late, kid is 6'5" and in some respects shows some Ian Jackson game, he is yet another guy that could get in to the rotation at the 3. But the Dixon kid, really love the smoothness to his game, kid can sizzles the nets with that shooting stroke, I think he is better than most seem to realize, he is transitioning to the PG position.
I simply cannot place a lot of trust right now in either High or James brown and I in no way want to see Jarin spend any time at the 5 for us. Jarin is a 4 that played the 3 all last season for Nate Oates and actually showed the ability to defend 3s, something I never saw in him coming out of high school. I don't want him at the 3 for us but it is nice to know that he can switch off to a 3 and still hold his own. I will say this yet again, my starting 3 for next season would very likely be Caleb Wilson. Folks now days seem to believe the only type of 3 they want is a converted guard, need I remind folks the name of the position is small forward not big guard. Kid became a 5 star due to his ability to facilitate at 6'9". Guys like Jarin and Caleb are guys that will carves teams up from the mid range (Veesaar as well), guys that give us positional mismatches and if you saw duke last season you realize how important that can be.
My 2 areas of concern, clearly a back up at the 5 is my strong #1 but a ball handling PG would be my next most concerned area. I like Evan clearly more than most, telling you I see a bit of a Marcus Paige like game in him, not equating him to Marcus, just saying i see some flashes that remind me of Marcus. I find the expectations on these kids to be really low but maybe that is not such a bad thing, it is far better than those crazy high expectations we had for some of the over hyped guys we have had over the last few years.
I will be first to say the combination of Cadeau and RJ just didn't not mix, just as the combo of RJ and Caleb did not mix. Me, I am just not a huge fan of any player that takes a lot of bad shots and In my view RJ did that for the last 2 seasons. When I say that folks come back with he had to because no one else seemed able to. But why did RJ have to, was it maybe because they wasted so much time pounding the floor boards and not moving the defense? It read to me like RJ wanted to play in half court, why else would he end so many primary and secondary break ops? Yet on the other hand Cadeau wanted to run no matter what. That is the set up for a basic conflict on the court, not being in sync.
I can't recall many times Hubert pulled Cadeau where I felt he should not have. When Cadeau picked up his second foul of the first half you had to pull him, if he proved anything he proved he could not play effectively and not pick up that 3rd first half foul, he picked up fouls in bunches. I saw what to me was an alarming degree of maturity, not just his game but as a kid his age, witness the arguing with refs and the refs know how to handle a kid that does that, they blow the whistle on his next touch foul. If that kid can grow up and get out of that protective bubble he seems ot live in he has the tools to be really special. But his friends and family are not doing him any favors to the extent I suspect how coachable he is. here were MANY times I screamed that I don't care which one you get off the court between RJ and Cadeau but they are running us in to a ditch playing together.
I can agree that every other player on last season's team has an argument that they were poorly used EXCEPT RJ and Cadeau, they BOTH were given every op imaginable to produce great and In my view to much that it stiffed out the others on the court.
My gosh, we have Seth, Dixon, Denis, and even Evans, all combo guards, why bring in yet another combo guard? Let me define combo guard, at least in the way I define one, it is a 2 guard that can play the point in a pinch. Cadeau was a point guard, not in any way a combo. Yes, Evans is in my view a combo that I think is tilted a touch more as a PG but still a combo.
When I look at who had and is available in the portal the only PGs I preferred over Evans was Dent and Lee. Out side of those 2 the rest there wasn't a lot of separation with, we got Evans, cool, I will roll with him. That means I am willing to go in to next season without a guy that breaks the presses with his dribble and doesn't need some help getting the ball past half court. Go ahead and plan on giving him help advancing the ball when he needs it, you can do that with Seth or Dixon as well when needed.
So then you do not like UNC Basketball (Because of HD).! Nice...
A combo guard is defined by both size and handle. Also, a true combo guard can shoot the basketball pretty well from behind the arc. In order to play the off-guard position size is required for defensive purposes. Also must be able to bring the ball up as well as get the team into an offensive set when the break is not available. Make no mistake, any good guard is going to push the tempo whenever possible. Thereby the team that he is pushing the ball against does not get to set their defense and contest otherwise open shot attempts. Evans is indeed a PG who can play the 2. Seth is a defensive minded presence who can shoot the ball at times. His handle is decent. To me Dixon will eventually play the PG position. I simply am not certain that will occur this coming season. However, he can shoot the ball and he will play, imo...
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GMAFB .. I see you failed the comprehension part of the reading course. At no time did I say or infer "I do not like UNC Basketball (Because of HD)." Go troll someone else.
You absolutely Implied that you do not like that way that UNC played this past season because of the way HD coaches the game. Therefore, you do not like UNC Basketball at the present time because of the way HD coaches. Also junior, one can only "infer" something as the subject matter relates to themselves. You are not a future journalist for SI, in my view...
Welp, you had me til the last sentence, and while that was probably the case with RJ. good Lord, that could NOT be further from the truth with EC. What I've told y'all about that situation was not speculation, and the ripple effect cleaned out what would've been our starting perimeter, so here we are. End of story.
As for the subject at hand (once and for all hopefully), a Combo is not defined by physical skills as much as mental. He's a guy who can handle well enough to run some point but typically does better off-ball because he doesn't have the instinctive vision and/or herding instinct to be a Floor General.
So, for the millionth time, a PG can be a good shooter/scorer and still have the PG genes (Phil, Joel, Jet) or be a "pass-first" guy (Eliot, Butter, Ed). The Combos are guys who can do some of those things but the Floor General part just doesn't click naturally (RJ, Coby, Evans, Seth, Boogie).
And BTW, it wasn't RJ who didn't want to run --- it was Jeff.
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Right now, with all of the Euro-3s we're in on --- the guys from Germany, Spain and Montenegro, respectively --- there is stiff competition, much of which is coming from within Europe.
Any one of them would upgrade our roster.
This is a third grade take. How about I disliked what I saw on the court BECAUSE I like UNC Basketball, which has been absent far too often under HD. If you want to cheerlead no matter what that is your business but sometimes grownups have real talk about issues that they see on a forum.
At the beginning of last year UNC staff stated they wanted to run, to be one of the fastest teams on the court. That didn't work out and the "scheme" changed. I wondered at the time if Cadeau and RJ were getting beat to a pulp and didn't get to the foul line changed it. I also wondered about injuries. Cadeau passed to the paint early and often and the post players couldn't catch the ball or weren't "ready" to get the ball and after 2 or three turnovers the ball didn't go to the paint nearly as much. Later in the season the team got better at this especially Cadeau to Lubin but the hole was already large in the win loss column. Add to that Cade couldn't and then didn't shoot, RJ had a slump, Withers was good and then not so much ( he did get better later). Jackson could shoot but got lost on defense alot, matchups were unkind to Cade and Washington. Tremble got a concussion that stunted his play and Washington was spotty in execusion. A short back court and the lack of a true center put UNC at a disadvantage. Often times last year Rj was the only one moving without the ball. Cadeau eventually would pass the ball to RJ for a shot. My impression is that as long as Hubert Davis has been coach he has been plugging holes in the dike. NIL and the transfer portal have disrupted any long term meshing for teams. It has also aggravated the "me first" mentality of how do I get to the NBA. I will interested in how the upcoming team moves , with and without the ball. And whether the 4 out/5 out scheme is used.
Lotsa observations there --- you ain't wrong about the poor hands, lack of off-ball movement, etc.
The scheme change came from the bench and it was a really bad idea, and largely accounts for the stagnance. Hell, pretty much the only time we got see the "fastest team" was up at Memphis. We never ran a "motion" offense, we cut the Secondary off at the knees and put stupid self-owning restrictions on our elite creator.
On the other side, guys complaining about their "NBA development" is indeed a "me" problem that today's environment has enabled... and not exclusive to this staff by any means, but winning and playing in a functional system/scheme supersedes a lot of that --- unfortunately we left the functional system at the starting gate.
So then, you are claiming to be some sort of grown-up.? Great. You should be at this point in life, one would think. Coach Davis is under contract until 2030 I do believe. He is not going anywhere soon. That much is Certain. Your take is message board fodder at its minimal level thought process to me. However, that is certainly just me. I will say that it is somewhat Impossible to hate Coach Davis and then claim to love UNC Basketball. You need to be a bit more grown-up in your response to see this point clearly it would seem. Your agenda is however, crystal clear to me. You are wanting Coach Davis to either do it your way and/or leave. I get it. Simple enough...
RJ has no argument that he was misused because he had carte blanche his entire 4rth and 5th season (which in my opinion killed team chemistry). EC was not given the opportunity to excel because the dumb ass offensive scheme the UNC coaching staff used last season would likely stifle the jet himself because he would not have been the default primary ball handler Some of you guys, not necessarily you, don't realize the damage last seasons misuse of players did short term but you damn well may see it for the next couple years. HD and his coaching staff may well fit in to that FAFO category. This could get ugly but I truly hope not. jmo
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Perhaps @RP12 wants to see things done not necessarily "his" way, but in a manner that has a track-record of success here.
You want to see Hubert succeed. I feel confident the vast majority of the folks here want that as well ---- I know I do.
My critiques here have been as much out of frustration FOR Hubert as from anger at the clusterf*** we have been witnessing.
Reality is, extension or no extension, if he lays another egg this season it will likely be his last. That is NOT what I want to happen.
I saw JPowell as a wing backup, before Drake left. Now he has to be considered as a possible SF starter, or SF backup, and also maybe SG backup
I see Stevenson as possible SF starter, or SF backup, and also PF backup. Maybe C backup, too, if needed there.
So my question is: who starts at SF - JPowell or Stevenson?
lol who knows what we need any more. We’ve wasted so many 5 and 4 star recruits’ potential the last few years that I’ve completely lost confidence that even the greatest recruiting/transfer class of all time would get us past the first weekend of the ncaa.
It’s hard to be optimistic when the common denominator is still on the sideline.
LOL, so I have 3 answers for your question.
1) The stupid answer in my opinion would be Jarin. I don't care what Nate Oates did with him. JUST as was the case with Jalen, , Jarin needs to make great use of his mid range game, Oates would not allow him to, step out of the occasional trey is fine but in no way should he camp out side like we had Nance doing (which BTW wasted Nance's abiliities).
2) The reasonable answer is JPowell, right now he is a 3D guy but needs to add some mid range to his game and work on his ball handles. Need to see him able to shoot shoot off movement as opposed to strictly catch and shoot. Shoot off curls, pull ups, floaters.
3) The SMART answer in my opinion is Caleb Wilson! Love the notion of going from one of the smallest front courts in the nation to one of the longest, that is a offensive and defensive pay off. He gets knocked for his jump shooting but it has come a really long way over the last year. I would invert him from the 3 with Veesaar, let Veesaar step out and Caleb posts up his defending 3. Folks will notice real quick how quick Wilson is on his initial leap and be blown away by how quickly he gets back up on a second leap, it flashes me back to Twain and that ability he had to get up multiple times really quickly for put backs. Wilson shoots the ball well enough now to sell the outside jumper and drive to the cup for a flush.
I know exactly what we need, it isn't so much a who, it is a what!~
What we need is a different approach to the offensive end. This 4 around 1 thing has made us VERY STAGNANT offensively, it drains the energy right out, it does not move the defense, in fact it to often plays in to the teeth of the defense. That lack of energy carries over to the defensive end and we play in to it even more by switching when there is absolutely no need to switch. That is on the staff, it is on Hubert because he is the head coach.
Telling you right now we have the talent to have a really good season but if Hubert sticks with this nonsense offensive approach the results will be worse next season than they were last season. Now someone said, I think in this thread that Hubert has an extension that carries him to 2030 so we had him as our head coach at least until then? No, what an embarrassing thing to say, it is as if the poster did not know that caches are fired every season before their contract has expired.
I want to state this VERY clearly, Hubert is right now today on a big time hot seat, he next season to prove he deserves to keep this job, not till 2030 but NEXT season is make or break for him. Another season like this past one and Hubert will NOT be our coach come the 26-27 season. He barely made it to the point he will coach us next season, there were VERY loud voices that were ready to end it after this past season but they elected to get Tanner in place and his front office staff get built before changing coaches. Had it not been for that, Hubert would not be our coach today and that is not a guess. IF next season we have a season like we did this past season and Hubert is not fired the day of or at least within a week of our final game we will be looking for a new head coach AND a new AD.
Some freakin way come hell or high water I am going to find a way to be optimistic! LOL
If I am told your job is on the line unless you do things differently and those things are specifically drawn out so that it is absolutely clear, I am either going to quit or adjust to what is demanded of me, any one have any other options? LOL
I do hold out some (not as much as I would like) hope that Hubert is smart enough to realize this and smart enough to revert back to what he watched Roy do for 8yrs as an asst or Dean do for 4 years as a player. Hubert has over thought himself and he has allowed some other voices to influence him, one in particular that was a really bad coaching hire, that has run us in to a ditch, that should not be still on our staff. Is Hubert not able to man up and fire someone?
First really have to get dreams of Watkins out of your head, he isn't playing for UNC. But I as well want to make you aware of a tactic that is being widely used out there and suggest that Tanner is not above using this tactic. Let's say you are Tanner and you have caught wind that duke is highly interested in Stojak (just as example). Now you know you can't afford him and you may even question how he would fit the guys you already have. You could put in a bid for the player for no other reason than to run his price tag up. That way if duke gets him they have to pay more than he is worth but you may force them out due to the price tag, you just have to be smart enough to know when you have to get out or bring him in for a visit and have it not go well so that it looks like the kid backed away from you when in fact you could not take him to begin with. It is a tactic that is being used, has Tanner used it, well ya know...LOL
I want to say this VERY VERY clearly, nothing I want more for UNC basketball than Hubert Davis have a great season next season and prove to us all that Roy was right in making him the guy to succeed him. There is a great deal of difference between what I want to see happen and what I expect to see happen.
Look, it probably won't matter on our end. His representation is not favorably inclined toward UNC at this juncture.
If I remember correctly, you are strongly against starting Wilson at SF. So unless we get another SF, that leaves . . . Powell? Trimble?
I mean if we get Watkins or a comparable starting SF from the portal, it's probably a moot question; but unless we add a starting SF, who's your leading choice?
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