Brad Stevens

[DSouthr]

As I said in another post, I think the Stevens to Duke dream (which I have definitely had) is more of a pipe dream. I don't think Stevens has any real interest in returning to college; nor do I think Coach K really wants to turn the program over to someone outside the Duke "family." With that said, "worst ever coaching jobs" is a bit extreme. Lol. Duke will still have a massive national brand name, plays a national TV schedule, undoubtedly has the financial resources to pay his replacement top dollar (K has been reported to make near $10 million), has excellent basketball-training facilities, and will undoubtedly provide the program with tremendous financial support, etc. etc. While I think you're right that it's a very tough job for a young, unestablished coach who needs to learn on the job (ala Matt Doherty), I don't think an established, competent coach with a trackrecord will have much trouble. In the end of the day, if you're a head coach with aspirations of competing for national champions, your odds of doing that at a place like Duke (UK, UNC, Kansas) are dramatically better than your odds of doing that at 99% of the D-1 programs in the country. If Stevens wanted to come to Duke or UNC (which I don't think will happen), I am pretty sure that he'd be incredibly successful.

I strongly disagree, it is not that a replacement wold be taking over a blue blood program, I mean that in itself is a huge pressure cooker that only a very few can handle, but it has the double blow of having to follow on the heels of a legendary coach. The fans, while they at first say they do not expect the new coach to be just like the legendary coach, it is funny how the tune changes if greatness results do not come quickly. K's team can get knocked out in an early NCAAT round exit but the new coach can't have that as an example. In some ways the new coach thou not expected to be as good as the legendary coach will have to not be just as good but even better because his results will always be measured against the legendary coach and not just the legendary coaches actual achievements just before retiring but the perception of greatness that coach earned over the years. Nature of the beast, the perception of a legendary coach grows the longer he is retired, it grows to the point even the legend himself can not live up to it.

Look at UCLA, look at Indiana, heck even look at UNC and we had another hall Of Fame coach take over rather shortly after Dean stepped down and we have won a couple nattys, Roy still suffers from comparison to Dean even now. There were more than whispers that maybe it was time for Roy to hang it up before last season's run to the title game. And keep in mind, Roy was 2 head coaches at UNC removed from Dean's retirement and was seen as the programs savior so more latitude was granted him to pull us out of the depths we were in under matt.

It isn't as easy as say, everything is set great now just hand the baton over to Capel and we will not skip a beat, it will not be nearly like that, if you think it can be you are setting yourself up for a major fall. It will be hard to replace Roy when he steps down but Roy has never reached that legendary status, Roy has kinda always been more of a Robin to Dean's Batman even after running his own very successful program for many years in kansas. There are just a very few coaches that can command the title legendary, Dean was one, John Wooden, Rupp, I put Bobby Knight in that group, Calhoun maybe, John Thompson, Al McQuire, and K has got to that level as much as I and Tar Heel fans may not like it. You can even break that group down to Dean, Wooden, and Rupp and to duke fans and maybe everyone else as well, K is either in that smaller group or if not then not to far from it, closer than any other name I have rolled out. Every one of those programs dropped from where they were after that legendary coach stepped away, yes, even my Tar Heels. Duke fans may not think it will happen to them but it will, it has to...

 

[RP12]

Am I the only one that thinks K would like to have dook fall off a cliff when he leaves?

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Am I the only one that thinks K would like to have dook fall off a cliff when he leaves?

I think I've posted about that before. It's the ultimate catch-22 for the Rat. One the one hand - he doesn't want everything he's built his entire career to crumble into the abyss when he's gone, leaving nothing left of his empire. But on the other hand - that narcissistic personality wouldn't be able to cope with having another top notch coach come in and pick up where he left off, or worse, be superior to him. Can you imagine how pissed off he'd be if 5-10 years after he retired another coach came in and got 3 natty's? He'd probably hang himself if he heard ESPN ask the question "who's the better Duke coach?". His perfect scenario is somewhere in the middle. Keep Duke good enough where they're still a blue blood program and would be constantly talked about - but make sure that they're not good enough to the point that someone would question if the new guy is better than K.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Agree 100%! Well said Sir Hark!

 

[DSouthr]

I think I've posted about that before. It's the ultimate catch-22 for the Rat. One the one hand - he doesn't want everything he's built his entire career to crumble into the abyss when he's gone, leaving nothing left of his empire. But on the other hand - that narcissistic personality wouldn't be able to cope with having another top notch coach come in and pick up where he left off, or worse, be superior to him. Can you imagine how pissed off he'd be if 5-10 years after he retired another coach came in and got 3 natty's? He'd probably hang himself if he heard ESPN ask the question "who's the better Duke coach?". His perfect scenario is somewhere in the middle. Keep Duke good enough where they're still a blue blood program and would be constantly talked about - but make sure that they're not good enough to the point that someone would question if the new guy is better than K.

I could not have said that better, great job hark!

 

[HeelFan58]

dook will suffer when K retires (assuming he ever does) UNC has been a top tier relevant program since the sixties. dook was mired in mediocrity from Bubas's last year 68-69 through 76-77 and then from 1980-1983.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I'm not so sure K will retire anytime soon. He strikes me as the type that will want to keep working so he can keep winning and winning. It wouldn't shock me at all if he was still coaching into his late 70s (he's 69 currently)

 

[Sk1310]

Jery Colangelo wanting K to take his position over for USA basketball could actually sway K to retire a little sooner than we think imo


http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_...y-colangelo-wants-mike-krzyzewski-succeed-him

 

[DevilBlue]

I think both programs drop once K and Roy leave. I don't see how you can't. Recruits want to be coached by the best...not the next guy. Now, I do think the OAD era lends itself to a quicker turnaround than in the past. There are very talented guys who will go to Duke or UNC no matter who the coach is knowing they can get the playing time and national coverage. IMO I think Duke is a little bit more set to make the change as a number of the coaches who are one the short Duke family list have head coaching experience...but that's just my opinion. I honestly could see both Roy and K coaching 5-10 more years each or 1-2 and saying its time. At that age and stage in their careers where money isn't an issue and time with family becomes more at a premium its a quicker switch IMO. I disagree completely however with the idea that K wouldn't want somebody to succeed after him. Oh K likes to be the best, but honestly??? Especially if its a former Duke player(like Roy was to Dean) no matter what the stats just like Roy has never questioned who was better when people have compared them, I don't think that Capel, Dawkins, Collins, Wojo would ever no matter how many titles they won in 10 years say anything other than K was the best.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I'm not so sure K will retire anytime soon. He strikes me as the type that will want to keep working so he can keep winning and winning. It wouldn't shock me at all if he was still coaching into his late 70s (he's 69 currently)

Next season is K's last. I'd bet Louigi's yearly salary on it.

Also, I think there's zero chance that Stevens returns to college. As gtee stated, there's less outside influences to worry about on the pro level. And once you go pro and succeed, it's rare for you to go back to college. I can't think of one coach that has done that. Also, I agree with ahh that 75% of the NBA would put a hit out on their current coach if they knew they could get Stevens. He'll have NBA teams fighting over him for a long time. So unless he has a love for the education aspect of college, he ain't coming back.

As far as who our next one is, again, gtee nailed it. The branches on our family tree are twigs. There is absolutely no one that has shown the chops of taking over a program on the level of Carolina. We must go outside the family if that day were to be in the next 3-5 years. Maybe King Rice gets a bigger job and shows off. Maybe Hubert leaves UNC and does well running his own program. Maybe Larry Brown coaches into triple digits and makes good on all the wrong he's done. But short of any of those happening, I'm fairly certain the next UNC coach won't be a family guy.

 

[DevilBlue]

Next season is K's last. I'd bet Louigi's yearly salary on it.

Also, I think there's zero chance that Stevens returns to college. As gtee stated, there's less outside influences to worry about on the pro level. And once you go pro and succeed, it's rare for you to go back to college. I can't think of one coach that has done that. Also, I agree with ahh that 75% of the NBA would put a hit out on their current coach if they knew they could get Stevens. He'll have NBA teams fighting over him for a long time. So unless he has a love for the education aspect of college, he ain't coming back.

As far as who our next one is, again, gtee nailed it. The branches on our family tree are twigs. There is absolutely no one that has shown the chops of taking over a program on the level of Carolina. We must go outside the family if that day were to be in the next 3-5 years. Maybe King Rice gets a bigger job and shows off. Maybe Hubert leaves UNC and does well running his own program. Maybe Larry Brown coaches into triple digits and makes good on all the wrong he's done. But short of any of those happening, I'm fairly certain the next UNC coach won't be a family guy.

Why do you feel next year is Ks last?

 

[DSouthr]

Next season is K's last. I'd bet Louigi's yearly salary on it.

Also, I think there's zero chance that Stevens returns to college. As gtee stated, there's less outside influences to worry about on the pro level. And once you go pro and succeed, it's rare for you to go back to college. I can't think of one coach that has done that. Also, I agree with ahh that 75% of the NBA would put a hit out on their current coach if they knew they could get Stevens. He'll have NBA teams fighting over him for a long time. So unless he has a love for the education aspect of college, he ain't coming back.

As far as who our next one is, again, gtee nailed it. The branches on our family tree are twigs. There is absolutely no one that has shown the chops of taking over a program on the level of Carolina. We must go outside the family if that day were to be in the next 3-5 years. Maybe King Rice gets a bigger job and shows off. Maybe Hubert leaves UNC and does well running his own program. Maybe Larry Brown coaches into triple digits and makes good on all the wrong he's done. But short of any of those happening, I'm fairly certain the next UNC coach won't be a family guy.

slanger, the ONLY thing I would argue about this post is Larry. Good or bad, larry Brown will NEVER and I mean NEVER coach at UNC again. He is seen, rightly or not as tarnished and those in control would never even consider him. Ya know when Larry inquired after Gut stepped down the chancellor at the time instructed Baddour to tell Larry to submit a resume and if they were interested they would get back with him. Yeah...

 

[gunslingerdick]

Why do you feel next year is Ks last?

For several reasons. But the main one being that a friend of mine (Iron Duke) lives in Durham and has said that someone within the athletic department that he knows well hasn't come out and said it, but has alluded to it. My friend says that this person within the duke AD has been wrong before (he said that Amile Jefferson would NOT redshirt last year so there's that). And supposedly this guy within the AD made it clear to my friend that no one on the basketball staff has told him that - just that based on his interaction with people on staff and with others inside the athletic department, that it was his opinion that next season would be K's last. Couple that with the fact that K is stepping down from USA basketball and won't have that advantage (as little or as big as you believe that to be), his age (will be 70 at the end of next year), the good possibility that he goes out on top (duke being stacked next year) and the way basketball recruiting has evolved (I don't think K enjoys having to explain his reasons for recruiting OAD players and I don't think deep down he respects the OAD culture) all lead me to believe that he'll hang it up after this year.

 

[gunslingerdick]

slanger, the ONLY thing I would argue about this post is Larry. Good or bad, larry Brown will NEVER and I mean NEVER coach at UNC again. He is seen, rightly or not as tarnished and those in control would never even consider him. Ya know when Larry inquired after Gut stepped down the chancellor at the time instructed Baddour to tell Larry to submit a resume and if they were interested they would get back with him. Yeah...

I was just joking about Larry...except for the part where I said he'll be coaching into triple digits. That dude is a basketball lifer.

 

[tarheel0910]

I was just joking about Larry...except for the part where I said he'll be coaching into triple digits. That dude is a basketball lifer.

I think him and K are going to be the basketball version of Bryant and Paterno. Given their age and attachment to the game for so long they won't live much longer after they retire.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

I was just joking about Larry...except for the part where I said he'll be coaching into triple digits. That dude is a basketball lifer.

I'm gonna pick Larry in our death pool which all but ensures he'll make it to triple digits with my luck

 

[Sk1310]

I think both programs drop once K and Roy leave. I don't see how you can't. Recruits want to be coached by the best...not the next guy. Now, I do think the OAD era lends itself to a quicker turnaround than in the past. There are very talented guys who will go to Duke or UNC no matter who the coach is knowing they can get the playing time and national coverage. IMO I think Duke is a little bit more set to make the change as a number of the coaches who are one the short Duke family list have head coaching experience...but that's just my opinion. I honestly could see both Roy and K coaching 5-10 more years each or 1-2 and saying its time. At that age and stage in their careers where money isn't an issue and time with family becomes more at a premium its a quicker switch IMO. I disagree completely however with the idea that K wouldn't want somebody to succeed after him. Oh K likes to be the best, but honestly??? Especially if its a former Duke player(like Roy was to Dean) no matter what the stats just like Roy has never questioned who was better when people have compared them, I don't think that Capel, Dawkins, Collins, Wojo would ever no matter how many titles they won in 10 years say anything other than K was the best.

I agree with this.

Next season is K's last. I'd bet Louigi's yearly salary on it.

Also, I think there's zero chance that Stevens returns to college. As gtee stated, there's less outside influences to worry about on the pro level. And once you go pro and succeed, it's rare for you to go back to college. I can't think of one coach that has done that. Also, I agree with ahh that 75% of the NBA would put a hit out on their current coach if they knew they could get Stevens. He'll have NBA teams fighting over him for a long time. So unless he has a love for the education aspect of college, he ain't coming back.

As far as who our next one is, again, gtee nailed it. The branches on our family tree are twigs. There is absolutely no one that has shown the chops of taking over a program on the level of Carolina. We must go outside the family if that day were to be in the next 3-5 years. Maybe King Rice gets a bigger job and shows off. Maybe Hubert leaves UNC and does well running his own program. Maybe Larry Brown coaches into triple digits and makes good on all the wrong he's done. But short of any of those happening, I'm fairly certain the next UNC coach won't be a family guy.

I know he isnt true UNC family per se, but what about Jarrod Haase? If he kills it at stanford the next few years, I think id be perfectly comfortable with him being the next guy in line.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree with this.


I know he isnt true UNC family per se, but what about Jarrod Haase? If he kills it at stanford the next few years, I think id be perfectly comfortable with him being the next guy in line.

Actually, in my book Haas as a former UNC assistent coach is now in the UNC family! I would actually see him right there with King and maybe more so than Hubert as viable candidates for the gig when Roy does step down. I think Hubert is to young in his coaching career right now, I think he needs some head coaching time before I would see him as a valid candidate.

My prime candidate would be Phil for as long as Phil; wants to coach. Would love to see Hubert take over another program and learn from that aspect and Phil bring in Sean May, Rasheed, and George Lynch as assistent coaches.

 

[tarheel0910]

Actually, in my book Haas as a former UNC assistent coach is now in the UNC family! I would actually see him right there with King and maybe more so than Hubert as viable candidates for the gig when Roy does step down. I think Hubert is to young in his coaching career right now, I think he needs some head coaching time before I would see him as a valid candidate.

I agree 100% with this.

My prime candidate would be Phil for as long as Phil; wants to coach. Would love to see Hubert take over another program and learn from that aspect and Phil bring in Sean May, Rasheed, and George Lynch as assistent coaches.

Two issues I have with Phil, his age and his experience. He's already 60 now, so by the time Roy retires he would be more of a place holder and not a long term solution. I don't think that's the best route to take. As far as experience, he hasn't been on a bench for a long time and the game has changed a lot since he left.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree 100% with this.


Two issues I have with Phil, his age and his experience. He's already 60 now, so by the time Roy retires he would be more of a place holder and not a long term solution. I don't think that's the best route to take. As far as experience, he hasn't been on a bench for a long time and the game has changed a lot since he left.

You are right about his age and that is why I phrased it as long as he wants to but I can't think of a better coach to transition us from Roy to who will eventually take over.

I completely understand your point about how long Phils official resume reflects his coaching time but Phil is a special case IMO. He has some "special" consideration that you will not find on a resume, I am talking about Phil as snot just being a decent or good head coach, Phil IMO and knowing some things that are not publically known, would be a GREAT head coach.

ya know Dean came from kansas as an assistent for he who shall not be named that ran off to SC, LOL. Dean was never a head coach until he got our job but there was special in him. In my time as a UNC fan, I have watched a lot of players come & go and in that time there has been only 1 that I would consider an extention of Dean on the floor, want to guess who that was? There is more and it involves how Dean saw Phil and Dean saw Phil as a potential hall of fame head coach one day and as maybe the best limb he had on his coaching tree and that is with no disrespect at all to the other limbs but shows how much Dean felt about Phil. Phil had just one demon that held him back or he would have been our head coach right now and that demon has now been long slain.

 

[HeelFan58]

You are right about his age and that is why I phrased it as long as he wants to but I can't think of a better coach to transition us from Roy to who will eventually take over.

I completely understand your point about how long Phils official resume reflects his coaching time but Phil is a special case IMO. He has some "special" consideration that you will not find on a resume, I am talking about Phil as snot just being a decent or good head coach, Phil IMO and knowing some things that are not publically known, would be a GREAT head coach.

ya know Dean came from kansas as an assistent for he who shall not be named that ran off to SC, LOL. Dean was never a head coach until he got our job but there was special in him. In my time as a UNC fan, I have watched a lot of players come & go and in that time there has been only 1 that I would consider an extention of Dean on the floor, want to guess who that was? There is more and it involves how Dean saw Phil and Dean saw Phil as a potential hall of fame head coach one day and as maybe the best limb he had on his coaching tree and that is with no disrespect at all to the other limbs but shows how much Dean felt about Phil. Phil had just one demon that held him back or he would have been our head coach right now and that demon has now been long slain.

"he who shall not be named" left for the Phila Warriors for their last season in Philly and worked for 2 years in public relations before he wound up at SoCar .McGuire is a huge part of Tar Heel history. I agree with you on Phil but I fear that ship sailed too long ago.

 

[Bubspub88]

I think the one and done strategy hurts the transition for a blue blood program. When you have players like Marcus they leave a legacy that is more than the numbers in the media guide. You cannot build that affinity for a school when you are there for one year. Guys who are there multiple years truly become part of the family. Cal and K have been incredibly successful but which is bigger on the recruiting trail, their individual name or the school's? Kentucky and dook can have some alumni games with current nba players and retired players but it is a planned and promoted event, at UNC that is simply a summer pick up game.

 

[aah555]

I strongly disagree, it is not that a replacement wold be taking over a blue blood program, I mean that in itself is a huge pressure cooker that only a very few can handle, but it has the double blow of having to follow on the heels of a legendary coach. The fans, while they at first say they do not expect the new coach to be just like the legendary coach, it is funny how the tune changes if greatness results do not come quickly. K's team can get knocked out in an early NCAAT round exit but the new coach can't have that as an example. In some ways the new coach thou not expected to be as good as the legendary coach will have to not be just as good but even better because his results will always be measured against the legendary coach and not just the legendary coaches actual achievements just before retiring but the perception of greatness that coach earned over the years. Nature of the beast, the perception of a legendary coach grows the longer he is retired, it grows to the point even the legend himself can not live up to it.

Look at UCLA, look at Indiana, heck even look at UNC and we had another hall Of Fame coach take over rather shortly after Dean stepped down and we have won a couple nattys, Roy still suffers from comparison to Dean even now. There were more than whispers that maybe it was time for Roy to hang it up before last season's run to the title game. And keep in mind, Roy was 2 head coaches at UNC removed from Dean's retirement and was seen as the programs savior so more latitude was granted him to pull us out of the depths we were in under matt.

It isn't as easy as say, everything is set great now just hand the baton over to Capel and we will not skip a beat, it will not be nearly like that, if you think it can be you are setting yourself up for a major fall. It will be hard to replace Roy when he steps down but Roy has never reached that legendary status, Roy has kinda always been more of a Robin to Dean's Batman even after running his own very successful program for many years in kansas. There are just a very few coaches that can command the title legendary, Dean was one, John Wooden, Rupp, I put Bobby Knight in that group, Calhoun maybe, John Thompson, Al McQuire, and K has got to that level as much as I and Tar Heel fans may not like it. You can even break that group down to Dean, Wooden, and Rupp and to duke fans and maybe everyone else as well, K is either in that smaller group or if not then not to far from it, closer than any other name I have rolled out. Every one of those programs dropped from where they were after that legendary coach stepped away, yes, even my Tar Heels. Duke fans may not think it will happen to them but it will, it has to...

Agree and disagree. I agree that finding a guy who can replace a legendary coach is difficult b/c most coaches are not good enough to match the legend. My point was only that, IMO, an established, great coach (like Brad Stevens) wouldn't be scared off by the job simply b/c it has expectations if he really wanted the opportunity to coach at a major program -- b/c someone with his ability could easily excel here. The problem most programs have had is they've made questionable hires that have set their respective programs back. IU inexplicably gave Mike Davis the job after the mess with Knight, and then royally screwed up with Sampson. UNC hurt themselves by hiring Doherty. Etc. Etc. If a school hires well (like Self to KU, Roy to UNC, Calipari to UK, Pitino to Louisville, etc.), they'll have a great chance to do well. As for the point about Roy as Robin, while that's certainly true in terms of how many fans feel, it's not really true in terms of black and white results. In 12 or 13 years at UNC, Roy has 2 NCs and 4 final fours. That compares extremely favorable to any 12-13 year stretch of Dean's career. Roy may not be as beloved as Dean. But he's nearly as productive. In that vein, while I would concede that it's extemely unlikely that any coach at Duke will ever be revered as much in the program as Coach K, I think Roy at UNC or Calipari at UK clearly show that subsequent replacements can be as productive or nearly as productive as the legends who created their respective programs. Will Duke have another run of winning 5 national titles in 25 years? Eh. Probably Not. Let's hope college basketball even exists in 25 years. But there's a big difference between winning 20% of all national titles over a quarter century and dropping out of the top tier for an extended period of time. IU and UCLA are two national programs that have struggled to remain nationally relevant since their iconic coaches departed. But there are certainly other powerhouse programs (KU, UK, UNC, Louisville) that have been able to thrive across multiple coaching staffs. Sustained success is not guaranteed. But it's not impossible either.

 

[Archer2]

I think dook fans are grossly underestimating what replacing a coach of K's stature entails, a big drop off is almost a given. Many UNC fans are guilty of the same thing with regards to replacing Roy. They're in for a rude awakening, IMO.

 

[UNC Blue Hup]

Rats are a dime a dozen

 

[DSouthr]

Agree and disagree. I agree that finding a guy who can replace a legendary coach is difficult b/c most coaches are not good enough to match the legend. My point was only that, IMO, an established, great coach (like Brad Stevens) wouldn't be scared off by the job simply b/c it has expectations if he really wanted the opportunity to coach at a major program -- b/c someone with his ability could easily excel here. The problem most programs have had is they've made questionable hires that have set their respective programs back. IU inexplicably gave Mike Davis the job after the mess with Knight, and then royally screwed up with Sampson. UNC hurt themselves by hiring Doherty. Etc. Etc. If a school hires well (like Self to KU, Roy to UNC, Calipari to UK, Pitino to Louisville, etc.), they'll have a great chance to do well. As for the point about Roy as Robin, while that's certainly true in terms of how many fans feel, it's not really true in terms of black and white results. In 12 or 13 years at UNC, Roy has 2 NCs and 4 final fours. That compares extremely favorable to any 12-13 year stretch of Dean's career. Roy may not be as beloved as Dean. But he's nearly as productive. In that vein, while I would concede that it's extemely unlikely that any coach at Duke will ever be revered as much in the program as Coach K, I think Roy at UNC or Calipari at UK clearly show that subsequent replacements can be as productive or nearly as productive as the legends who created their respective programs. Will Duke have another run of winning 5 national titles in 25 years? Eh. Probably Not. Let's hope college basketball even exists in 25 years. But there's a big difference between winning 20% of all national titles over a quarter century and dropping out of the top tier for an extended period of time. IU and UCLA are two national programs that have struggled to remain nationally relevant since their iconic coaches departed. But there are certainly other powerhouse programs (KU, UK, UNC, Louisville) that have been able to thrive across multiple coaching staffs. Sustained success is not guaranteed. But it's not impossible either.

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I think dook fans are grossly underestimating what replacing a coach of K's stature entails, a big drop off is almost a given. Many UNC fans are guilty of the same thing with regards to replacing Roy. They're in for a rude awakening, IMO.

64 Archer2, Yesterday at 8:35 PM
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ahhh but here is the thing, there are not many Roy's out there and if you look at K's coaching tree, do you see a Roy on it? I see a Capel who got in trouble at OU, I see several young coaches that as of yet would not be nearly considered to have a Roy like resume or productivity. Even a K himself coming out of Army would not have been given the time in todays world duke nearly fired him, UNC nearly canned Dean in much softer times, coaches do not get nearly as much leash now days.

And the hard cold truth is UNC has slipped since Dean retired, I know, not a fun thing to say and yes we have added a couple nattys under Roy. There are multiple reasons we can point to but the truth is things have slipped, I would put it as in we have gone from legendary to really good while duke has gone from really good to legendary. For all the many reasons we discuss the plain and simple fact is we do not get the talent level that duke and Ky get at this point of time. We play really well most seasons with the talent we do get and that is a credit to Roy but it is not as if we have not skipped a beat or 2.

When K steps down, unless duke is fortunate enough to hit big time pay dirt with a Stevens or one of a very few NBA head coaches, I am not sure I see them being able to not slip, and considering as of right now it is hard to see them having a version of Roy to fall back on, their slip can very well be greater than ours has been. Their brand will help them for a while but a brand has to be sustained or it begins to fade. If it were announced right now today that next season would be K's last, would you bet on duke actually getting a top 3 class for 2017? You take K out of the mix and their recruiting fortunes change very quickly.

As for Roy, when he steps down do you really think it will have the same impact as dean or K stepping did or will have? No dis-respect to Roy but Kansas has not really fallen back since he left and I would submit that maybe replacing Roy would not be the same challenge that replacing Dean was or replacing K will be. It would not be easy to find a guy as loved by our fan base as Roy is, would not be easy to find a guy as trusted. But I would suggest we would have a larger pool of candidates that could step in and still our program maintain at least where we are today than duke will have to replace K and not see severe slippage.

 

[keysersosay#1]

In five years both Vader and Roy will have retired IMO.

LTCC will have a MUCH more difficult time with the loss of Vader.
WE have had the experience of losing the legend in DES, we KNOW what happened and what to expect.

The LTCCers have NO CLUE what is headed their way. They simply are NOT prepared for the anguish and depression that will be a part of their lives for the REST of their lives. NONE of us who have followed Carolina basketball since the mid 70s feel the program is the same.

Yeah we love Roy, we love what he has done and what he will do BUT it is different and no one is expecting that special atmosphere to ever be replaced. Roy has done about as good a job as possible though

The LTCCERS???? man they are in for it and this heel will relish in their misery as their 40 yr reign of endless breaks ,endless calls, endless games they had no reason to win and an ongoing cover up of a TRUE scandal that would have cost them a Natty in 2010 win comes to an end

Their misery, no matter WHO coaches that team ,will be long and relentless. It will NEVER be the same doochies........ I cannot wait!!!!

 

[HeelFan58]

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I think dook fans are grossly underestimating what replacing a coach of K's stature entails, a big drop off is almost a given. Many UNC fans are guilty of the same thing with regards to replacing Roy. They're in for a rude awakening, IMO.

64 Archer2, Yesterday at 8:35 PM
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ahhh but here is the thing, there are not many Roy's out there and if you look at K's coaching tree, do you see a Roy on it? I see a Capel who got in trouble at OU, I see several young coaches that as of yet would not be nearly considered to have a Roy like resume or productivity. Even a K himself coming out of Army would not have been given the time in todays world duke nearly fired him, UNC nearly canned Dean in much softer times, coaches do not get nearly as much leash now days.

And the hard cold truth is UNC has slipped since Dean retired, I know, not a fun thing to say and yes we have added a couple nattys under Roy. There are multiple reasons we can point to but the truth is things have slipped, I would put it as in we have gone from legendary to really good while duke has gone from really good to legendary. For all the many reasons we discuss the plain and simple fact is we do not get the talent level that duke and Ky get at this point of time. We play really well most seasons with the talent we do get and that is a credit to Roy but it is not as if we have not skipped a beat or 2.

When K steps down, unless duke is fortunate enough to hit big time pay dirt with a Stevens or one of a very few NBA head coaches, I am not sure I see them being able to not slip, and considering as of right now it is hard to see them having a version of Roy to fall back on, their slip can very well be greater than ours has been. Their brand will help them for a while but a brand has to be sustained or it begins to fade. If it were announced right now today that next season would be K's last, would you bet on duke actually getting a top 3 class for 2017? You take K out of the mix and their recruiting fortunes change very quickly.

As for Roy, when he steps down do you really think it will have the same impact as dean or K stepping did or will have? No dis-respect to Roy but Kansas has not really fallen back since he left and I would submit that maybe replacing Roy would not be the same challenge that replacing Dean was or replacing K will be. It would not be easy to find a guy as loved by our fan base as Roy is, would not be easy to find a guy as trusted. But I would suggest we would have a larger pool of candidates that could step in and still our program maintain at least where we are today than duke will have to replace K and not see severe slippage.

UNC was never , ever close to canning Dean. The students may have hung him in effigy but that was as far as it went. "We just shook hands. Aycock made it clear what he expected from me: Give the university a team of which it could be proud. He said I'll support you. Don't worry about the winning and the losing. If you do the things I've asked of you , you'll have a job here as long as I'm chancellor. "Chancellor Aycock wasn't someone who could be bullied by donors or pressured by alumni either" . "When Aycock left the chancellor's seat , he made it clear that he felt I should remain the coach, and his successor, Paul Sharp , agreed with him. I never heard a word of criticism from South Building". "I had several close friends on the faculty, and I knew if I was in trouble they would tell me".

-Dean Smith "A Coach's Life" .