My opinion I feel Williams or Britt will get the nod with Roy using Pinson as a sparkplug off the bench.Robinson can be the wildcard out the group heard alot of nice things about him.
Britt,Pinson,Williams or Robinson who do you think will start at the SG spot
- Thread starter smooth as butter
- Start date
Hey Smooth, love your enthusiasm but this is your second re-run of the off season!
Sure, you didn't start the endless debate on the 2 spot...... it's been going since before Marcus double-clutched with 4.7 seconds left in the season!
About a month ago you asked us to rank our all-time fave point guards and I'm sure you asked the same last year.
As I said, love the enthusiasm, but you need some new material.
Sure, you didn't start the endless debate on the 2 spot...... it's been going since before Marcus double-clutched with 4.7 seconds left in the season!
About a month ago you asked us to rank our all-time fave point guards and I'm sure you asked the same last year.
As I said, love the enthusiasm, but you need some new material.
I said it in the last thread on this, but....
I'm anticipating one of 7th, Kenny, and BRob to be the best #2 on the team. That said, Nate will start the majority of the games until Roy's hand is forced.
I'm anticipating one of 7th, Kenny, and BRob to be the best #2 on the team. That said, Nate will start the majority of the games until Roy's hand is forced.
The SG start belongs to Theo if he earns it by doing what he needs to do between now and then.
The argument that he should be the 6th man playing starter minutes also has merit. But an on-track Theo with the other likely starters gives us the most talent on the court.
If Theo doesn't earn it, probably Nate until someone can take it away from him. We have several guys who might take it away from him, but they'll have to work darn hard.
Roy doesn't mind starting a freshman if he needs to, but I don't expect that he'll think he needs to with this roster. Instead, I expect him to go with his upper classmen while giving Kenny and the frosh ample opportunity to develop coming off the bench.
The argument that he should be the 6th man playing starter minutes also has merit. But an on-track Theo with the other likely starters gives us the most talent on the court.
If Theo doesn't earn it, probably Nate until someone can take it away from him. We have several guys who might take it away from him, but they'll have to work darn hard.
Roy doesn't mind starting a freshman if he needs to, but I don't expect that he'll think he needs to with this roster. Instead, I expect him to go with his upper classmen while giving Kenny and the frosh ample opportunity to develop coming off the bench.
It won't have a thing to do with his hand "being forced", IMO. He will experiment like he always does early and then he'll decide which lineups he favors. No one is in a position to force his hand except the players themselves. Maybe that's what you meant.
There is video on you tube of the current players vs the alums played last week. I recommend those of you wanting to see a glimpse take a look. Hicks, Meeks, and 7th did not play because they had classes they had to be in, did not see nate or Kenny there. Was able to get a look at Brob and Tony, Tony is filling out nicely and BRob seems to have hit the weight room a little bit as well.
But we have had a lot of discussion about Theo and his shooting, ya may want to notice but what I saw was very similar shooting from Theo we saw last season.
But we have had a lot of discussion about Theo and his shooting, ya may want to notice but what I saw was very similar shooting from Theo we saw last season.
Yes, the players forcing his hand is what I meant. Roy will default to having Nate start. People will see by around the beginning of conference play, that one of the freshmen or Kenny is a better option at the 2. Then we'll probably drop a head scratcher halfway through conference play which will "force Roy's hand" into starting the better player.
Ozzy, respectfully, it is OK for smoothy to rehash this IMO, it is the off season and really until recruiting really starts to heat up (when some of the top 10 start getting close to commits) we are just gonna rehash a lot of the same ole stuff. I mean our questions are pretty universally agreed upon and our season revolves around the handful of questions we have already beat to death and will continue to hammer away on.
And ya know what Ozzy, it TICKLES ME for us to rehash the same ole topics because it means we are not having to engage in the depression of what is the NCAA gonna do or debate the AFAM stuff with rival fans. I can not explain how I will gladly discuss the same topic a few hundred times as opposed to the off season discussion we have had to engage in for the last what, 4-5yrs? WE don't have any dark clouds hanging over the program to discuss!!!!
No rival fans want to discuss the AFAM stuff any more, they know their wet dreams have gone unfulfilled. No PJ or Lmac issues to have to work our way thru, no strange early departure to the NBA to lament, no retirements or deaths of great Tar Heels to sadden our days. It may be boring to an extent but now days, GIVE ME BORING if it means I do not have to defend on every front!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I agree that TP wins against Nate. But similar to IDUNK - I think anyone who thinks Roy will start someone other than Nate (at least for the first half of the season) is crazy. Roy will start Nate even if 7th, BRob, and Kenny all show they're better. It's frustrating, yes, but it should be expected at this point.
Dude, it is SCARY how much alike we see things! LOL Yet again, I totally agree!
Good points Dave. I too prefer this discussion over the other rubbish we've had to discuss in the last 4-5yrs.
Just goes to show how painfully long the off season is!
I completely understand why some peeps see NB getting the start and I would not be surprised if it happens. I see 2 Family members that have paid their dues and sacrificed for the team and are both upperclassmen. This is a conundrum for Roy and it will depend on the personalities of the players and the chemistry of the team. Both players are well liked and I don't really care which gets the start since both will see major minutes. I expect both TP and NB to get some starts, but I expect to see either TP (or KW as a dark horse surprise) become the default starter by ACC time. 7th and BRob will play significant minutes, but unless they really breakout, their time will be next year.
Nate is a senior, Theo is a junior. Both qualify on that measure.
Theo has more to work on than Nate - which may give Nate the edge. Theo also has more upside potential than Nate - which will give Theo the edge IF he improves enough in the off-season.
Dave, we normally agree but I'm of a different mindset on this one.
While it wouldn't surprise me to see Nate being the starter at the onset of the season, I have serious doubts about Nate's ability to guard larger SG's. And he hasn't shown the ability to consistently knock down 3-pointers, which would compensate for his defensive liabilities. And when Joel goes out for a breather, Nate almost has to slide over to the PG spot. And I'm not one who wants to see Nate playing more than about 10-12 MPG, and I realize he averaged 15 MPG last year. So I'm just not sold on the effectiveness of playing Joel and Nate simultaneously for extended minutes.
Kenny has shown that he can defend the SG spot. So if he can shoot the ball the ball halfway effectively, he's in a great position to start, provide Theo doesn't. Now I know Roy loves his Seniors and I realize it's not who starts but who gets the most minutes at crunch time. It will be interesting to see how it shakes out.
Everybody has things to work on in the off season. One of Nate's is exactly what you refer to - strength to guard bigger opponents.
Nate is as good as anyone on the team and better than most at sticking to his man, with and without the ball (some or our guys are good at one but not the other), but even though he is right there where he should be, some stronger guards can just shove him aside. If he can work on that, without losing any of his quickness, he'll be in great shape on the D side of things.
I agree with all of this. But, I also agree with this:
So that's why I'm under the impression Nate will start.
Do you think Nate will average more MPG next year than last(15.4)? Because I don't. And I think Nate is the obvious choice to play point when Joel is on the bench. So if Joel plays 31 MPG like last year, that's likely 9 MPG at PG for Nate right there. So if he plays the same minutes as last year, that's 6 MPG at SG. Even if Nate averages 20 MPG next year, that still leaves over 25 MPG at SG for other player(s).
And unless Nate's defense has improved significantly and he shoots 36+% from long distance, I'll be amazed if he plays more minutes than last year. I actually expect his numbers to drop a little, if anything. Nate's a great young man and represents the team/university very well. But he is somewhat limited physically, much like Kennedy, and I see his primary role as backing up Joel at point.
Nate shot .366 from 3 in 14-15 and .313 in 15-16. Theo and Justin both shot 29% last year Someone is going to have to be a threat other than JB..
Exactly HF58. IMO, it is going to be critical for us to get decent 3-point shooting next year. I don't expect Joel to shoot 38% again, although I hope he won't drop off much. And I fully expect JJ's long distance accuracy to improve from his 29% average last year. But IMO, we really need a SG to emerge who can shoot them well if we're to contend.
Without a dominant frontline, perimeter scoring is going to be more important than it's been in several years.
Without a dominant frontline, perimeter scoring is going to be more important than it's been in several years.
Man arch, ya had me all the way up to the part about it being obvious that Nate would be Joel's back up. Gary is gonna disagree but I am not sure it is so clear cut that Nate will back up Joel, early season yeah but as we get in to the serious part of the season don't count out 7th Woods as a back up for Joel. Yeah, I know, 7th has a ways to go to be a PG but for short periods while Joel catches his breathe don't be surprised to see 7th in there at the point, 7th will be working a lot at the point in practice and if things go like Roy pans them to 7th will win that back up PG role. WE just have to see if he can or does Roy have to revert back to Nate at the point. Maybe nate at the 2 and 7th at the point some so that 7th has the experienced guy playing next to him but 7th will be given every op to handle the PG duty this season, wait and see is all I can tell ya.
Having said all that, don't look for Joel to come out of the game often as we get in to the heart of next seasons play.
I would love nothing more than to see 7th prove that he's capable of playing the point, Dave. Joel may possibly leave after this coming year if he blows up, which I think we both agree might happen. And I believe 7th knows that his pro aspirations hinge on playing the point, barring another growth spurt. With his quickness and strength, he could be a fine college PG, providing he continues to tighten up his handle.
I agree that Joel may play iron man minutes, more than his 31 MPG last year.
I agree that Joel may play iron man minutes, more than his 31 MPG last year.
7th has the tools to be an excellent PG but his skill has not caught up to his talent as a point. But it is important to understand that 7th was depended on to be his teams go to scorer and he didn't always have a lot of help where he could rely on distributing and not hunt his shots.
I am kinda old school in that to me a PG should be more of a guy that gets his mates more involved, more than needing to be a go to scorer, score timely of course but I am not a fan of a PG that has to be your leading scorer at the same time. That is the major concern I had with Marcus at the point actually, he was more a scorer and we needed him to be that but we as a team IMO played so much better when Joel was distributing and Marcus was able to look for his scoring. And yeah, Marcus struggled some in that transition, the ball was not in his hands as much and his shooting struggled in part because of that. But I would have rathered Marcus struggle with his shooting and our team make it to the NCAA title game than Marcus to shoot great and we not make it past the sweet 16.
I look at next season, I REALLY and mean REALLY do not want Joel to feel like he has to lead us in scoring, take the clean looks he gets of course but he is much more important IMO as a guy that gets all our players involved as opposed to the 4 guys watching Cat Barber deal we saw from the wuffs last season.
So IMO, 7th Woods has to change his go to scorer mindset a bit and that will not be as easy as it may seem. But this is the kind of kid that I will bet on because this kid is a team first guy, he wil do what ever he needs to do in order to help his team win.
I look at next season, I REALLY and mean REALLY do not want Joel to feel like he has to lead us in scoring, take the clean looks he gets of course but he is much more important IMO as a guy that gets all our players involved as opposed to the 4 guys watching Cat Barber deal we saw from the wuffs last season.
So IMO, 7th Woods has to change his go to scorer mindset a bit and that will not be as easy as it may seem. But this is the kind of kid that I will bet on because this kid is a team first guy, he wil do what ever he needs to do in order to help his team win.
Couldn't agree more, Dave. I love a scoring PG but I also see his primary job as being an extension of the coach on the floor, getting us into the right offensive/defensive sets, and getting the ball to the other players in the spots where they can be most effective. I hope Joel doesn't feel pressured to score to the point where he hunts his shot too much or puts up poor quality shots.
JJ is going to be our leading scorer this coming year, I'm thoroughly convinced of that. And we're going to need consistent scoring from Joel and Isaiah. But if one of our SG candidates can provide consistent scoring as well, it will alleviate some of the pressure off of Joel. IMO, scoring from the SG position is more critical than it's been in several years.
And I think 7th will work extremely hard to learn the PG position, knowing his future may rely on him doing so.
So IMO, 7th Woods has to change his go to scorer mindset a bit and that will not be as easy as it may seem. But this is the kind of kid that I will bet on because this kid is a team first guy, he wil do what ever he needs to do in order to help his team win.
Couldn't agree more, Dave. I love a scoring PG but I also see his primary job as being an extension of the coach on the floor, getting us into the right offensive/defensive sets, and getting the ball to the other players in the spots where they can be most effective. I hope Joel doesn't feel pressured to score to the point where he hunts his shot too much or puts up poor quality shots.
JJ is going to be our leading scorer this coming year, I'm thoroughly convinced of that. And we're going to need consistent scoring from Joel and Isaiah. But if one of our SG candidates can provide consistent scoring as well, it will alleviate some of the pressure off of Joel. IMO, scoring from the SG position is more critical than it's been in several years.
And I think 7th will work extremely hard to learn the PG position, knowing his future may rely on him doing so.
Yeah and to me that is just another reason why we have to shoot well from our 2guard position, to take pressure off of Joel AND loosen up some of the help downs that clog up the lane and make things harder on our inside guys. If we can shoot well between the 2 guard spot and Justin then it will be double hard for defenses to help down on our front court bigs or help up on Joel. It balances the floor with scoring, makes it hard to zone when you have 3 guys that can splash treys out in front of that zone.
If you do not have big men like May, Hansbourgh, Zeller, Henson, or Brice (guys that either play thru contact or over the top of it) to dump the ball in to for easier looks and consistent scoring then you absolutely have to shoot well from the 2 and the 3 spots, else the defense will drop off the weaker shooter and dare him to beat them and double up a stronger threat. WE won a natty with a wweak shooting 2 guard in Jackie but don't forget, we had Sean to dump the ball inside to and we had both Marvin and Jawad that could stretch outside from the 4 spot, as well as Rashad able to drop down & post up on a clear out. Justin IMO could post up most opposing wings but we don't have a Sean May down low to dump to. Have been hoping Meeks could become that but so far he hasn't.
Having said that, I would love to see us use Theo to draw a big man up top and invert Justin down to post up his defender and our big man screen off the help side. Justin with a lil jump hook (that he actually has in his bag of tools) would be real hard to contain if you defend us in man.
7th will certainly get some time there early in the season, because Roy will want to know what he's got. Nate is solid at either guard position, but what can 7th and Kenny and BRob bring? It will be fun to find out.
Theo remains the biggest question mark. Obviously Theo can back up at SF and play some at SG. But I think Roy hopes he will turn the corner and be his starting SG. If Theo is ready for that, that pushes the other guys into other roles.
This is why I think we need to add a good pure PG to the 2017 class. There's a good chance Joel will leave, Nate and Stilman will be gone. As much fun as it could be to see 7th and Jalek in the back court - and I really do think that will be fun - they are both very much score-first players from all that I've seen.
That could change. But I don't think we should be counting on it.
My want level is so high for front court players that I can barely consider a kid that isn't a front court guy as a strong need. If we bring in the shooter that gary likes I think with he and Jalek as well as 7th already here we can get by 1 recruiting class without a PG and go look for one from the 2018 class.
The other thing is I am not yet convinced next season will be Joel's last, the NBA doesn't really get crazy over 6ft PGs unless they bring extraordinary ball handles and quickness and/or way above average jump shooting. Look at Ulis and Yogi in this draft, they jumped for long PGs like Dunn and Murray but the more average length PGs they were not jumping out strong for. Really all depends on how Joel plays this season, does he have yet another level he can step to? There are some really long PGs in the NBA and Joel is not gonna get much longer and next years draft is looking to shape up as being much deeper than last nights was.
So I am not as convinced Joel will leave after next season as many are , not saying he can't but I wouldn't bet the ranch on him leaving, I would have the odds at 50/50 right now. I don't question that he can play at the NBA level but I do question if he was looking at a second round maybe in next years draft would he take that or come back and look at entering the next one after that. Off the top of my head I would think in terms of PGs that Ball and Fox would likely go ahead of him and maybe even some 2s that realize they need to play the point at the next level. Marcus even as a sr went 55 last night and Marcus was known as a deadly jump shooter even if he did struggle at points last season.
Well . . . if Joel returns for his senior year, that PG can back him up while learning from him. But if Joel leaves and neither 7th nor Jalek are really PGs in terms of seeing the court, distributing the rock and being a floor general, then things might be dicey.
Yaeh but that is a risk I would be willing to take as opposed to getting a "settle" for PG? Now I need to share that I have not seen more than 1 small clip of the kid that is trying to set up a visit with us that Roy offered a short while back. That clearly was not enough for me to be absolutely sure about his game but from that clip and only that clip I was not what I would call blown away excited. He looked in that very small sample size like a combo and more of a 2 than 1 and if that is the case then I prefer Platek because he brings great jump shooting at the very minimal and maybe if gary is right, he could bring a lot more.
It really isn't fair for me to access the kid without being able to see more of his game but I absolutely would have to see more than I have to be sold on him. And having said that for now I have to put him in that settle for a PG category and I want more than a settle for guy. I want our UNC PG to be a really solid ball handler with quickness and great passing ability. I want my UNC PG to be able to shoot enough that he forces the defense to guard his shot but he doesn't have to be A Curry like jump shooter.
It really isn't fair for me to access the kid without being able to see more of his game but I absolutely would have to see more than I have to be sold on him. And having said that for now I have to put him in that settle for a PG category and I want more than a settle for guy. I want our UNC PG to be a really solid ball handler with quickness and great passing ability. I want my UNC PG to be able to shoot enough that he forces the defense to guard his shot but he doesn't have to be A Curry like jump shooter.
I'm not saying we should settle for a mediocre PG. If we can't get a good one, then I'll take the risk that 7th or Jalek will tide us over until the 2018 class.
It's tricky with the 2017 class because, from what I read, there don't seem to be too many outstanding PGs.
^^^^
And why I'd rather sign Platek than "Spoon, if we only sign one. TBS, 'Spoon is coming on very strong with his recent play, very strong.
And why I'd rather sign Platek than "Spoon, if we only sign one. TBS, 'Spoon is coming on very strong with his recent play, very strong.
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