Camille Paglia: ‘Hillary wants Trump to win again’...

[NoleSoup4U]

Liberal/conservative are just social constructs by which people identify themselves. People, on avaerage, who identify as liberals are smarter. Perhaps you and your Nole brethren are limited by your brains and are unable to process as such. The roof is your ceiling.

The ceiling is the roof for me.

There might be some truth to this, but the major issue with this statement is the word "identify". There are many people out there who proclaim to be a "liberal" only to identify themselves as smart. Hell, the word "liberal" doesn't even pertain to modern day leftists, which are more of the authoritarian thought process.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Liberal/conservative are just social constructs by which people identify themselves. People, on avaerage, who identify as liberals are smarter. Perhaps you and your Nole brethren are limited by your brains and are unable to process as such. The roof is your ceiling.

The ceiling is the roof for me.

I identify as liberal.

I kinda like these things where I can identify as whatever benefits me more at the current moment.

 

[strummingram]

What does "moving forward" mean? I think many of us would like to improve upon our situation, but does that carry a left/right connotation? I know that you're a liberty minded fellow, but for many people, in both parties, "moving forward means authoritarianism.

Acknowledging, and putting into practice, what works, and abandoning what doesn't (assuming it is no longer working). It's a fine line, for sure. I stop and think that it hasn't been too long that a majority of society has even been literate, and then, how long since we were almost bred to live as King & Subjects. We've always had obedience to leaders, lords, kings, emperors, rulers, you name it. I think there's a benefit to having structure and an agreed "set of rules", as well as individuals taking themselves as far as their efforts can take them.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Acknowledging, and putting into practice, what works, and abandoning what doesn't (assuming it is no longer working). It's a fine line, for sure. I stop and think that it hasn't been too long that a majority of society has even been literate, and then, how long since we were almost bred to live as King & Subjects. We've always had obedience to leaders, lords, kings, emperors, rulers, you name it. I think there's a benefit to having structure and an agreed "set of rules", as well as individuals taking themselves as far as their efforts can take them.

I agree for the most part, but that "set of rules" comment makes me wary.

 

[ticket2ride04]

There might be some truth to this, but the major issue with this statement is the word "identify". There are many people out there who proclaim to be a "liberal" only to identify themselves as smart. Hell, the word "liberal" doesn't even pertain to modern day leftists, which are more of the authoritarian thought process.

You’re getting off the tracks here. The larger point is that there is data supporting the fact that people who identify with being a liberal tend to be smarter.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

You’re getting off the tracks here. The larger point is that there is data supporting the fact that people who identify with being a liberal tend to be smarter.

I want to see the studies, and I want to see their methods of collecting data points. I'm fairly well versed in statistics, and it has made me very wary of the subject.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

The larger point is that there is data supporting the fact that people who identify with being a liberal tend to be smarter.

And here's exhibit A:

I identify as liberal.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

And here's exhibit A:

I also identify as liberal, "classic" liberal that is.

 

[strummingram]

I agree for the most part, but that "set of rules" comment makes me wary.

Well, we all agree not to kill each other... that kinda thing. Although, you're not going to find a unanimous agreement there!

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Well, we all agree not to kill each other... that kinda thing. Although, you're not going to find a unanimous agreement there!

I agree, and I've dealt with you before, so I don't necessarily project this assessment to you, but that statement is unnerving.

 

[heelbent]

 

[prlyles]

I'm not claiming it never regresses. But the long term trend is towards the left socially. You can't force people into a socially conservative box forever. People will eventually push their way out. Even the Catholic Church has largely backed down on issues like divorce or birth control.

Jordan Peterson's argument about postmodernism is completely legit IMO. Liberal social policy must be built on the foundation of individual rights, not group membership or identity. Unfortunately there are many people who misappropriate his argument to advocate for a kind of quasi-religious neoconservative social ideology that dismisses inequality for certain groups. You can't build a free society with identity politics, but you can recognize that certain groups of people are treated differently based on the color of their skin or what's between their legs. Sometimes I think he gets dangerously close to throwing the baby out with the bath water though.

That was stated very well.

 

[Terror Beard]

You’re getting off the tracks here. The larger point is that there is data supporting the fact that people who identify with being a liberal tend to be smarter.

Please define.

I'd bet more people who identify as conservative can build a house, fix a car or skin a deer.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Please define.

I'd bet more people who identify as conservative can build a house, fix a car or skin a deer.

This is a good point too. What we consider to be ‘smart’ is entirely subjective as well. Studies have looked at IQ and a little EQ which just means Libs score higher on those metrics. Conservatives tend to be more boxed in and rigid with their beliefs and process whereas Liberals inntsting showed a greater aptitude to ‘think outside the box’ in order to solve problems or accomplish tasks.

How we infer that data can be interesting. Some things need to be workshopped and tossed around. Spirited debate, solving a riddle, deciphering a book’s metaphor. Those are things liberals can do better. Conservatives, OTOH, are more binary. That is better served for things like math, engineering, building, etc. There’s not much room for theory or interpretation.

In the end, as a society, we need both sets of people. We need the Liberals to think and theorize. Extrapolate meaning and look for alternative routes. We need conservatives to reign them in and see to it the tasks are actually done. A philosopher still needs to eat.

*please note when I say Lib/Con, I’m talking through the context of the study. The study itself does not suggest all libs/cons fit this mold.*

 

[NoleSoup4U]

This is a good point too. What we consider to be ‘smart’ is entirely subjective as well. Studies have looked at IQ and a little EQ which just means Libs score higher on those metrics. Conservatives tend to be more boxed in and rigid with their beliefs and process whereas Liberals inntsting showed a greater aptitude to ‘think outside the box’ in order to solve problems or accomplish tasks.

How we infer that data can be interesting. Some things need to be workshopped and tossed around. Spirited debate, solving a riddle, deciphering a book’s metaphor. Those are things liberals can do better. Conservatives, OTOH, are more binary. That is better served for things like math, engineering, building, etc. There’s not much room for theory or interpretation.

In the end, as a society, we need both sets of people. We need the Liberals to think and theorize. Extrapolate meaning and look for alternative routes. We need conservatives to reign them in and see to it the tasks are actually done. A philosopher still needs to eat.

*please note when I say Lib/Con, I’m talking through the context of the study. The study itself does not suggest all libs/cons fit this mold.*

It sounds like conservatives produce actual goods while liberals piggyback off their hard work.

 

[ticket2ride04]

It sounds like conservatives produce actual goods while liberals piggyback off their hard work.

There’s probably some truth to that. The right brain people create the menu while the left brain people figure out how to execute. Most people can move between the two. The few than can, are rare and tremendously gifted.

 

[Heelicious]

This is a good point too. What we consider to be ‘smart’ is entirely subjective as well. Studies have looked at IQ and a little EQ which just means Libs score higher on those metrics. Conservatives tend to be more boxed in and rigid with their beliefs and process whereas Liberals inntsting showed a greater aptitude to ‘think outside the box’ in order to solve problems or accomplish tasks.

How we infer that data can be interesting. Some things need to be workshopped and tossed around. Spirited debate, solving a riddle, deciphering a book’s metaphor. Those are things liberals can do better. Conservatives, OTOH, are more binary. That is better served for things like math, engineering, building, etc. There’s not much room for theory or interpretation.

In the end, as a society, we need both sets of people. We need the Liberals to think and theorize. Extrapolate meaning and look for alternative routes. We need conservatives to reign them in and see to it the tasks are actually done. A philosopher still needs to eat.

*please note when I say Lib/Con, I’m talking through the context of the study. The study itself does not suggest all libs/cons fit this mold.*

good post.
At risk of broad brushing....I'd say in general:
liberal / progressive people tend to be more comfortable in approaching topics from an emotional, justice, heart, philosophy standpoint
conservatives tend to approach from a STEM, binary, evidence, logic, debate standpoint.

Not disparaging either categorization. Both complement each other and are needed in any society / organization

Churchill? or someone before him: (paraphrasing, I may have the ages wrong)
If you're not a liberal at 20 you have no heart.
If you're not a conservative at 40 you have no brain.

 

[dadika13]

The average liberal is absolutely smarter (IQ and education based) than the average conservative.

NYC, Philly, LA, SF, Boston, Chicago, etc. residents are statistically much smarter and statistically much more liberal than the rest of the country.

And that Churchill quote is 10000% accurate.

 

[Terror Beard]

NYC, Philly, LA, SF, Boston, Chicago, etc. residents are statistically much smarter and statistically much more liberal than the rest of the country.

lol

I’ve been to every one of those cities (save Boston) and that’s not at all the impression I left with. Maybe they’re just really good at disguising it. Or maybe all those cities’ smart people were on vacation when I visited. Have you been to Harlem? West Philly? South side of Chicago?

The average liberal is absolutely smarter (IQ and education based) than the average conservative.

The average conservative is absolutely better looking than the average liberal.

Athens, Gainesville, Oxford, and Charleston, are all statistically much better looking and statistically more conservative.

 

[strummingram]

Asheville is beautiful

 

[uncboy10]

Asheville is beautiful

Awesome trails and awesome beer. Full of hipsters though

 

[dadika13]

lol

I’ve been to every one of those cities (save Boston) and that’s not at all the impression I left with. Maybe they’re just really good at disguising it. Or maybe all those cities’ smart people were on vacation when I visited. Have you been to Harlem? West Philly? South side of Chicago?

Yes, I've been to those pockets of poor sections of cities.

Have you been to the entire states of Mississippi, Alabama, Idaho?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-union/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f418b9060b6f

I like this one cuz it's not just IQ, but SAT/ACT/college graduates also.

Of the top 10, 7 of the top 10 went blue (aka more than 1/3 of Hillary's total state wins).

Trump won 13 of the bottom 16 states.

These are facts.

 

[Terror Beard]

Yes, I've been to those pockets of poor sections of cities.

Have you been to the entire states of Mississippi, Alabama, Idaho?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-union/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f418b9060b6f

I like this one cuz it's not just IQ, but SAT/ACT/college graduates also.

Of the top 10, 7 of the top 10 went blue (aka more than 1/3 of Hillary's total state wins).

Trump won 13 of the bottom 16 states.

These are facts.

LOL

I know people that scored 1600 on their SATs and aren’t smart enough to get out of the rain. Color me unimpressed.

The linked WaPo article even states that being smart is subjective. I don’t give a shit about your book report on Voltaire’s Candide. If you can’t change a tire, you’re a moron.

Tell you what, I’ll decide what I view as “smart” and you decide what you view as “smart”.

 

[NoleSoup4U]

Yes, I've been to those pockets of poor sections of cities.

Have you been to the entire states of Mississippi, Alabama, Idaho?

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...e-union/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.f418b9060b6f

I like this one cuz it's not just IQ, but SAT/ACT/college graduates also.

Of the top 10, 7 of the top 10 went blue (aka more than 1/3 of Hillary's total state wins).

Trump won 13 of the bottom 16 states.

These are facts.

That seems to be more of an indictment as to a specific kind of education, not necessarily IQ.

 

[dadika13]

I provide evidence based on basically the only thing we can use to even try to determine intelligence but you argue changing a tire makes you smart.

I've lived in places dominated by liberals and places dominated by conservatives. On average, the liberal places contain people much more intelligent.

This argument is pointless though, I'm in a blue state arguing it's smarter and you're all in red states arguing it is. Neither is going to see the other's side so because of that, I'm out.

 

[tarheel0910]

This argument is pointless though, I'm in a blue state arguing it's smarter and you're all in red states arguing it is. Neither is going to see the other's side so because of that, I'm out.

If these blue state people are so smart, why do they do dumb things such as live in places like NY, Philly, LA, SF, Boston and Chicago?

 

[uncboy10]

If these blue state people are so smart, why do they do dumb things such as live in places like NY, Philly, LA, SF, Boston and Chicago?

The food. Duh

 

[ticket2ride04]

If these blue state people are so smart, why do they do dumb things such as live in places like NY, Philly, LA, SF, Boston and Chicago?

All places greater than Atlanta

 

[tarheel0910]

The food. Duh

They don't even know what sweet tea is in those places. They can all go to hell.

 

[tarheel0910]

All places greater than Atlanta

Most of those places have horrible weather and/or have a high likelihood of you being killed. Pass on that. Other than LA, your point is invalid. Cost of living is ridiculous there though.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Most of those places have horrible weather and/or have a high likelihood of you being killed. Pass on that. Other than LA, your point is invalid. Cost of living is ridiculous there though.

Atlanta has the 18th highest homicide rate in the country. The only city he listed that I would choose Atl over is Philly. And its pretty close.

NY
Chicago
SF

LA
Boston



Atl
Philly

 

[uncboy10]

They don't even know what sweet tea is in those places. They can all go to hell.

Yeah but you can make that yourself. Sounds like an untapped market to me

 

[tarheel0910]

Atlanta has the 18th highest homicide rate in the country. The only city he listed that I would choose Atl over is Philly. And its pretty close.

NY
Chicago
SF

LA
Boston



Atl
Philly

Listen, there are numerous scientific studies showing you are wrong. Take your wrongedness somewhere else.

 

[tarheel0910]

Yeah but you can make that yourself. Sounds like an untapped market to me

Hmm... You make a good point.

 

[ticket2ride04]

Listen, there are numerous scientific studies showing you are wrong. Take your wrongedness somewhere else.

 

[uncboy10]

Hmm... You make a good point.

All my points are good points. I make the best points.

 

[prlyles]

I don't believe any of the "left is smarter than the right BS". Saying that, morals is a whole different story for about the last 20 years.

 

[dadika13]

If these blue state people are so smart, why do they do dumb things such as live in places like NY, Philly, LA, SF, Boston and Chicago?

Blue state people also love Fulton and Dekalb counties.

 

[tarheel0910]

Blue state people also love Fulton and Dekalb counties.

Thought you said you were out? You must be one of those dumb conservatives.

 

[nctransplant]

I don't believe any of the "left is smarter than the right BS". Saying that, morals is a whole different story for about the last 20 years.

You go you conservative you!