Captain America Civil war

[tarheel0910]

Alright, so I saw the movie this weekend. Thought it was ok. There were three things that I didn't care for though.

One, Ant Man had absolute no reason to be in this movie. He served no purpose and should have been left out. Secondly, Spiderman shouldn't have been included either. It felt like his part was just forced in there because Marvel finally got his rights back from Sony and just wanted to celebrate that by squeezing him in. Lastly, the ending. Despite the fact that the plot concept was extremely dark, they ended the movie in a "rainbow and sunshine" way that Marvel always does. As I've said before I prefer the real life feel of DC. That being said, the feel for most of this movie was more DC than Marvel so that was a plus for me. This was the perfect opportunity for someone to die or leave the group and it would have made more sense. Other than those three things I thought it was pretty good.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Alright, so I saw the movie this weekend. Thought it was ok.

I also saw it this weekend (at a drive-in theater of all things, lol) and also thought it was okay.

Alright, so I saw the movie this weekend. Thought it was ok. There were three things that I didn't care for though.

One, Ant Man had absolute no reason to be in this movie.

Totally agree. I told this to a friend of mine, but he vehemently disagreed. He also is obsessed with all this super hero shit, so it was expected.

Additionally, in my opinion, Iron Man came off way more likable in this movie than Captain America did. Isn't Iron Man supposed to be the hardass and the disliked one? I found his position on the accords to be much more sensible than Captain America's stance. The same friend vehemently disagreed with me on this too, but he also jerks off to Chris Evans, so I'm not really shocked about that either. CA royally pissed me off in that movie.

And yeah, agreed @tarheel0910, they had the perfect opportunity to end this movie dark (which it was heading towards), and then boom, enter the rainbow and sunshine.

 

[heelz2345]

One, Ant Man had absolute no reason to be in this movie. He served no purpose and should have been left out. Secondly, Spiderman shouldn't have been included either. It felt like his part was just forced in there because Marvel finally got his rights back from Sony and just wanted to celebrate that by squeezing him in. Lastly, the ending. Despite the fact that the plot concept was extremely dark, they ended the movie in a "rainbow and sunshine" way that Marvel always does. As I've said before I prefer the real life feel of DC. That being said, the feel for most of this movie was more DC than Marvel so that was a plus for me. This was the perfect opportunity for someone to die or leave the group and it would have made more sense. Other than those three things I thought it was pretty good.

I know I've already posted on this thread that I really enjoyed this movie, so that's already out there, but I'd like to address this post. Sorry in advance for what will probably be a nerdy & long-winded reply.

1a: I disagree that Ant-Man served no purpose in this movie. Besides the fact they set it up in his own movie (scene with Falcon at the Avengers compound; post-credit scene with Cap, Falcon, Bucky), he was a powered individual who provided useful abilities at key moments in the airport fight when he

Spoiler: Spoiler

takes on Iron Man from the inside or turns into Giant Man to give Cap the ability to escape

Also, as he touches on, his relationship with Hank Pym has led him to be wary of Iron Man, so it seemed natural that he would be Team Cap.

2a: The Spider-Man inclusion happens for a few reasons, one of which you mention. Marvel got the rights to the character back, and so they wanted him in this movie. However, the primary reason is because in the comic book series "Civil War" on which this movie is largely based, Spider-Man is almost as big a part as Captain America or Iron Man. So the Russo Brothers, the directors of this movie, wanted Spider-Man to play a role in it, but before Marvel got the rights back, they weren't sure if it could happen. So, all of Spidey's scenes are basically contained to the middle of the movie, where he could have been lifted out relatively easily or his impact on the story shifted to someone else had they not been able to get the rights back.

1b/2b: I know I mentioned the comic book side of things in the previous post, but truthfully, when they did the Civil War story in the comics, it was massive. You had the Avengers, the Fantastic Four, the X-Men, and dozens of other heroes fighting each other. As it is, Marvel Studios doesn't have the rights to all these characters at the moment, and haven't introduced other ones in the MCU (Dr. Strange & Captain Marvel for example). So they needed everyone they had access to (with the exception of Thor and Hulk because as the movie touched on, they are not present following the end of Age of Ultron) for the movie to really have that same sense of scale. This movie definitely paid tribute to the comics in a lot of ways, and so to really do the title justice, they needed everyone they can get their hands on. On a side-note, I think it's funny that two of the three characters who have received the most praise among fans and critics (Spider-Man and Ant-Man, with Black Panther being the other) are who you didn't like in the movie. Just an observation.

3: With regard to the ending, I'm guessing you mean

Spoiler: Spoilers for Multiple Movies

the letter that Cap writes to Iron Man, but I didn't think it was a full-on "happy" ending. The Avengers are (for the time being) broken. Cap is in the wind with his other fugitive friends, Rhodes is some degree of crippled/rehabbing, Black Widow is missing, Bucky loses his (already prosthetic) arm, and as I said, the Avengers are basically broken up. The problem is because we have this expanded universe, and they announce the movies so far out, we already know that they will have to get back together by 2018 for (the soon to be renamed) Avengers: Infinity Wars. So, they had to leave some form of "well, we're still not where we were but never say never, cause Thanos will finally show up on Earth" because they will need the full Avengers for that one. But knowing what movies are coming next can often take the weight out of the movie in the moment. Take Batman v. Superman. I never for one second really believed they "killed" Superman because they are making a Justice League movie! So I knew it was going to be temporary, and sure enough, the end of the movie leaves you with the "Oh, Superman's not actually dead" moment so you're supposed to be relieved, but in actuality, you went "Of course he's not really dead!" So with this movie, they had to have all the action they had, but then say "Well, they won't be enemies forever you guys! Don't worry!" Honestly, that's the more accurate dig at Marvel, imo. It's not "Oh it's too quippy, it's too light, it's not realistic." The notion that they don't really kill off characters (Hello Loki, Coulson, Groot, Nick Fury, Pepper Potts, Rhodes etc) and don't have "true" stakes because you know certain characters have to return is the biggest, accurate criticism a person can make of these movies.

Anyway, the TL;DR version is I felt those characters where fine additions because they were helping recreate the best parts of the comic book it was based on with the characters available, and I didn't mind the ending that much because I still felt it was pretty dark, even if there was a glimmer of hope for a reunion (which we all know has to come anyway).

 

[tarheel0910]

It was a good movie, but I just think they missed the mark on those points. I understand why they did it, it just didn't work for me.

1a: I disagree that Ant-Man served no purpose in this movie. Besides the fact they set it up in his own movie (scene with Falcon at the Avengers compound; post-credit scene with Cap, Falcon, Bucky), he was a powered individual who provided useful abilities at key moments in the airport fight

But what did he actually accomplish? To me he came across as a drunk who was ultimately defeated in battle. The damage to Iron man was minimal and he was taken down by Spiderman easily in my opinion. I just didn't think he added anything to the movie.

the primary reason is because in the comic book series "Civil War" on which this movie is largely based, Spider-Man is almost as big a part as Captain America or Iron Man.

I didn't read that story in the comic, so I don't know much about the background. That being said, just because he was in the story line didn't mean he had to be in the movie. It just seemed forced to me. It was like they just picked up right in the middle of his storyline. If they would have at least shown how Tony found him out it would have made more sense to me.

but I didn't think it was a full-on "happy" ending. The Avengers are (for the time being) broken.

I wouldn't really call them broken. Yes they aren't phiscally together, but the guy who wanted to kill Bucky, Black Panther, is now protecting him. I didn't get the feeling that Tony still hated Cap and Rhodes actually surviving was a happy ending to me. He should have at least been in a wheelchair, not walking.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

If they would have at least shown how Tony found him out it would have made more sense to me.

Agreed. a quick 30-second scene of Iron Man reviewing footage of Spider Man's deeds then looking him up in a database and stuff would've made it feel less jarring. I realize Tony showed him YouTube clips while he was with him, but it should've been before. Just felt like he showed up randomly and scooped up Spider Man. There was no context.

However, A++ job on casting Marisa Tomei as the aunt. Lawdy she is hot.

 

[heelz2345]

I get what you mean that Spider-Man beat Ant Man relatively easily, but it was at a point where team Cap was basically largely sacrificing themselves so Cap could escape. So it was "successful" in that regard, but yes, he did end up losing, and really wasn't a "huge" part of the story. I personally didn't really need more Ant Man in this movie than what I got, but I can understand if you were like "Oh, Ant Man is in this, then he should be an important player" and then get 15 minutes of him and you go "That's it?" I didn't have that reaction, but I can somewhat understand it. I just thought the time we got with him was pretty great.

I kind of know what you mean that they picked up in the middle of Spider-Man's story (didn't see his origin, blah blah blah) but I am glad that they did. There have been 5 movies with Spider-Man before this one, people know that Uncle Ben got shot, Peter got bitten, with great power comes great responsibility, yada yada yada. Again, this ties to one of my BvS complaints, I did not need to see Bruce Wayne's parents get killed again (especially since it was the 3rd time in a live action Batman movie we've seen it). We know it happened. Honestly, when they make the next Spider-Man movie next year, I hope we are past his "origin" because we all pretty much know it. Just show him being Spider-Man. It's a fair point, they could have done a better job of Tony actually "finding" Spider-Man, possibly an earlier scene in the movie, but other than that, I liked how he was used in this movie. He's already Spider-Man, Tony is aware of him (somehow) and convinces him to be Team Iron Man. (Somewhat related, in Ant Man, they reference Spider-Man, not by name, but they say "We got everything these days. We have a guy that can jump, a guy that can swing, a guy who can crawl walls." So there are already people who are somewhat aware of Spider-Man in the universe, but as you pointed out, wouldn't have been a bad idea to see the idea planted in Iron Man's head before he just shows up).

As for Black Panther, the reason he forgave Bucky is because he heard Zemo confess to the crime. So, I think he wants to make amends with Captain America and Bucky because he feels guilty for falsely accusing Bucky to the point he was willing to murder Bucky, and he came pretty close a number of times in the movie.

I don't want to go back and forth too many times (cause I can probably spend all day talking about this movie, but I don't need to and have devoted too much time as it is, haha) so we can agree to disagree on those characters and leave it at you enjoyed the movie, but had some problems with how those characters were introduced/used while I didn't have those particular problems with it.

 

[outkast g]

 

[tarheel0910]

I get what you mean that Spider-Man beat Ant Man relatively easily, but it was at a point where team Cap was basically largely sacrificing themselves so Cap could escape. So it was "successful" in that regard, but yes, he did end up losing, and really wasn't a "huge" part of the story. I personally didn't really need more Ant Man in this movie than what I got, but I can understand if you were like "Oh, Ant Man is in this, then he should be an important player" and then get 15 minutes of him and you go "That's it?" I didn't have that reaction, but I can somewhat understand it. I just thought the time we got with him was pretty great.

I kind of know what you mean that they picked up in the middle of Spider-Man's story (didn't see his origin, blah blah blah) but I am glad that they did. There have been 5 movies with Spider-Man before this one, people know that Uncle Ben got shot, Peter got bitten, with great power comes great responsibility, yada yada yada. Again, this ties to one of my BvS complaints, I did not need to see Bruce Wayne's parents get killed again (especially since it was the 3rd time in a live action Batman movie we've seen it). We know it happened. Honestly, when they make the next Spider-Man movie next year, I hope we are past his "origin" because we all pretty much know it. Just show him being Spider-Man. It's a fair point, they could have done a better job of Tony actually "finding" Spider-Man, possibly an earlier scene in the movie, but other than that, I liked how he was used in this movie. He's already Spider-Man, Tony is aware of him (somehow) and convinces him to be Team Iron Man. (Somewhat related, in Ant Man, they reference Spider-Man, not by name, but they say "We got everything these days. We have a guy that can jump, a guy that can swing, a guy who can crawl walls." So there are already people who are somewhat aware of Spider-Man in the universe, but as you pointed out, wouldn't have been a bad idea to see the idea planted in Iron Man's head before he just shows up).

As for Black Panther, the reason he forgave Bucky is because he heard Zemo confess to the crime. So, I think he wants to make amends with Captain America and Bucky because he feels guilty for falsely accusing Bucky to the point he was willing to murder Bucky, and he came pretty close a number of times in the movie.

I don't want to go back and forth too many times (cause I can probably spend all day talking about this movie, but I don't need to and have devoted too much time as it is, haha) so we can agree to disagree on those characters and leave it at you enjoyed the movie, but had some problems with how those characters were introduced/used while I didn't have those particular problems with it.

 

[ElizabethtownHeel]

Watched it online and thought it was OK. Ok not great.

 

[tarheel0910]

This isn't an article about the movie, but instead of starting another comic book movie thread I figured I would just post it here. I've thought for a long time that Harley Quinn should have been in past movies and was excited to find out she was going to be in Suicide Squad. If that turns out to be as good as it looks then I will be looking forward to this one.

https://www.yahoo.com/movies/margot-robbie-drives-proposed-harley-quinn-movie-193304457.html

 

[heelz2345]

Yeah I had seen something about that as well. I think it has a lot of potential. Honestly, I've been much more excited for Suicide Squad than I was for Batman v. Superman. The trailers just seem like they are gonna get it right. Margot Robbie as Harley seems to be a highlight in particular, so if we get to see more of her, I'm very ok with that.