Carolina vs Notre Dame gamethread

TarHeelMark

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^ yea, we are recruiting well. I don't keep up with it too closely, so I don't know how well we are stocking up on the OL. I trust that Mack will get us there, but it's never as quick as us fans want it to be.

We could still end up 9-3 if we win out, and get a bowl win.
 
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uncboy10

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This has been a disappointing season all the way around. We had the opportunity to go into this game undefeated as probably the #3 ranked team in the country. And if the offense doesn't s*it the bed then we could have won it.

Shoulda/coulda/woulda is the unofficial mantra of Carolina football.
 

blazers

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This has been a disappointing season all the way around. We had the opportunity to go into this game undefeated as probably the #3 ranked team in the country. And if the offense doesn't s*it the bed then we could have won it.

Shoulda/coulda/woulda is the unofficial mantra of Carolina football.
True but it kinda hurts less this yr since i baked in some excuses around all the spring practice we missed. These young guys need more time with Hess too

Many others also got zero spring days and less summer S&C time, but I'm ignoring that and sleeping better.
 

uncboy10

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True but it kinda hurts less this yr since i baked in some excuses around all the spring practice we missed. These young guys need more time with Hess too

Many others also got zero spring days and less summer S&C time, but I'm ignoring that and sleeping better.
Hurts more when you remember that our superstar QB will be gone after next year, and most of our offensive skills players have an opportunity to go pro after this year. The young defensive talent is showing up just in time for the offense to have to be replaced.
 
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strummingram

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Hurts more when you remember that our superstar QB will be gone after next year, and most of our offensive skills players have an opportunity to go pro after this year. The young defensive talent is showing up just in time for the offense to have to be replaced.
You mean they haven't recruited offensive replacements?
 

uncboy10

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You mean they haven't recruited offensive replacements?
No there are some young guys who should be good. But it's always a crap shoot, especially at QB. Criswell has supposedly looked really good in practice, and Drake Maye is supposed to be really good too. But at some point you're gonna have an unproven QB in there, and same goes for RB once Carter and Javonte are gone. Ruder is a sophomore, so he'll still have three years of eligibility after this year. Some experience guiding the transition to the next young guy could be helpful if he sticks around.

Fortunately some of the young receivers are already getting some quality reps this year without losing a year of eligibility.

But Longo is still a terrible play caller.
 
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Bubspub88

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Bummed that UNC didn't get a W but hats off to the Irish. This is not an overhyped ND team that will crap the bed in the playoffs. Their D is legit. They had linemen bringing down Williams on runs he has been breaking into the second level all year. By far the most physical defense we've seen this season.
 
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Archer2

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Our skill guys are great but games like tonight exposed our OL big time.
Exactly. The lack of football knowledge on this board is glaring at times. You can have the best skill players in the world but if your OL can’t protect the QB and open holes for the backs, you can’t beat a top five team. The game is won in the trenches.

We lost this game because both of ND’s lines were deeper and more talented than our lines. Don’t know why so many people act surprised that this happened, many of us expressed those concerns in the weeks leading up to this game. It should have come as no surprise to anyone who knows a little about football. Add our propensity to accrue foolish penalties, and you’re not going to beat a real good team, and the Irish are one of the very best this year. Frankly, I was amazed we were tied at the half. I was expecting a beatdown, considerably worse than the final score.

With those two lines and Book at QB, ND is a serious national title contender. Congratulations to them, let’s learn from it and move on.
 
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Hurts more when you remember that our superstar QB will be gone after next year, and most of our offensive skills players have an opportunity to go pro after this year. The young defensive talent is showing up just in time for the offense to have to be replaced.
No there are some young guys who should be good. But it's always a crap shoot, especially at QB. Criswell has supposedly looked really good in practice, and Drake Maye is supposed to be really good too. But at some point you're gonna have an unproven QB in there, and same goes for RB once Carter and Javonte are gone. Ruder is a sophomore, so he'll still have three years of eligibility after this year. Some experience guiding the transition to the next young guy could be helpful if he sticks around.

Fortunately some of the young receivers are already getting some quality reps this year without losing a year of eligibility.

But Longo is still a terrible play caller.
Not worried at all. Khafre, Simmons, Rose, Downs, Blackwell, JJ Jones, Paysour at WR. Boykins, Hood and Edmonds at RB. Maye & Criswell at QB. Entire OL are underclassmen with Pounds, Sutton coming in. Pinder, Murphy, Bingley Jones, Ritzie, Silver, Stevenson on the DL. Asante, RaRa, Power, Evans, West at LB. Stevens, Conley, Grimes, Sinclair, Duck and Nash in the secondary. Phew, that is about 21 4* kids just right there that will be playing significant roles for the Heels the next 3-4 years. Future is bright!
 

uncboy10

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Not worried at all. Khafre, Simmons, Rose, Downs, Blackwell, JJ Jones, Paysour at WR. Boykins, Hood and Edmonds at RB. Maye & Criswell at QB. Entire OL are underclassmen with Pounds, Sutton coming in. Pinder, Murphy, Bingley Jones, Ritzie, Silver, Stevenson on the DL. Asante, RaRa, Power, Evans, West at LB. Stevens, Conley, Grimes, Sinclair, Duck and Nash in the secondary. Phew, that is about 21 4* kids just right there that will be playing significant roles for the Heels the next 3-4 years. Future is bright!
The future looks bright, but it's probably going to take one of those QB's at least a year to really settle in and play their best football. So we're probably looking at a minimum of three years before this program is really ready to make a major step forward. There's just not much chance that we're ready to win the ACC next year unless a majority of our skills guys on offense come back, or Sam plays a 4th season.

But even if that happens, we still have a terrible offensive coordinator that doesn't know how to make adjustments once a defense figures out what he is doing. We can't beat the likes of Clemson or Notre Dame with often horrendous play calling.

DB development hasn't even been remotely decent since Dre was a player at Carolina. O line development has been about the same. If those things don't turn around then it won't matter how many four star players Mack recruit.
 
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strummingram

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The future looks bright, but it's probably going to take one of those QB's at least a year to really settle in and play their best football. So we're probably looking at a minimum of three years before this program is really ready to make a major step forward. There's just not much chance that we're ready to win the ACC next year unless a majority of our skills guys on offense come back, or Sam plays a 4th season.

But even if that happens, we still have a terrible offensive coordinator that doesn't know how to make adjustments once a defense figures out what he is doing. We can't beat the likes of Clemson or Notre Dame with often horrendous play calling.

DB development hasn't even been remotely decent since Dre was a player at Carolina. O line development has been about the same. If those things don't turn around then it won't matter how many four star players Mack recruit.
So, the consensus is that Bateman is a better DC than Longo is an OC?
 

uncboy10

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So, the consensus is that Bateman is a better DC than Longo is an OC?
I don't know if that's the consensus but it is my opinion. Longo has some of the most talented offensive players in the country. The OL has been extremely suspect but it's the OC's job to figure out ways to relieve that pressure and force a defense to back.

We didn't suddenly become less talented after the first two drives. The ND DC made adjustments and they stumped Longo for the rest of the game.
 
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The future looks bright, but it's probably going to take one of those QB's at least a year to really settle in and play their best football. So we're probably looking at a minimum of three years before this program is really ready to make a major step forward. There's just not much chance that we're ready to win the ACC next year unless a majority of our skills guys on offense come back, or Sam plays a 4th season.

But even if that happens, we still have a terrible offensive coordinator that doesn't know how to make adjustments once a defense figures out what he is doing. We can't beat the likes of Clemson or Notre Dame with often horrendous play calling.

DB development hasn't even been remotely decent since Dre was a player at Carolina. O line development has been about the same. If those things don't turn around then it won't matter how many four star players Mack recruit.
Or they could come in like Sam and not miss a beat, who knows. The thing is to surround the young QB with talent, which they’re certainly doing. It was always going to take the program 3-4 years to really get things going, which is why I question all this talk about being a college playoff team and competing with Clemson and ND....in years 1 & 2. Next year will be Sam’s 3rd year, not 4th and they could absolutely compete for a ACC title both next year and the year after, when Sam goes pro. You’ll have two guys that been in the system 1-3 years and can take the reigns. The o line and secondary are insanely young and they will develop, I have no doubts about it. Hard to cover dudes for 5-10 seconds when your guys up front can’t pressure the QB. And I promise you, Silver, Ritzie, Bingley Jones, Pinder, Murphy, Evans and company will be bringing the heat. Year 2, lotta ball game left.
 
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Archer2

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@NBBears20124ACHAMPS, I concur on all accounts. Our starters are fairly close to ND/OSU... it’s the drop off from the first to the second string where we are deficient. ND was substituting freely and eventually wore us down. Our offense, heavily predicated on our running game and Sam’s passing ability, was shut down by ND’s dominant lines and a really good QB. Book could play for me all day long. I was using this game as a barometer as to where we really are. No surprise that we have a ways to go to compete with the Clemsons and the ND’s. But we’re gaining.
 

uncboy10

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Or they could come in like Sam and not miss a beat, who knows. The thing is to surround the young QB with talent, which they’re certainly doing. It was always going to take the program 3-4 years to really get things going, which is why I question all this talk about being a college playoff team and competing with Clemson and ND....in years 1 & 2. Next year will be Sam’s 3rd year, not 4th and they could absolutely compete for a ACC title both next year and the year after, when Sam goes pro. You’ll have two guys that been in the system 1-3 years and can take the reigns. The o line and secondary are insanely young and they will develop, I have no doubts about it. Hard to cover dudes for 5-10 seconds when your guys up front can’t pressure the QB. And I promise you, Silver, Ritzie, Bingley Jones, Pinder, Murphy, Evans and company will be bringing the heat. Year 2, lotta ball game left.
There is talk about how we could have been in the ACCCG because of how soft our schedule was this year. We were better than FSU and UVA. If we were undefeated going into ND then we wouldn’t even necessarily need to win that game to make the ACCCG.

Sam is eligible for the draft after next year and is very likely to be the first QB taken if he goes pro after his third year. Technically he could play five years but that’s not gonna happen.
 

uncboy10

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What Carolina really needs is a couple of breakthrough offensive and defensive minds at the coordinator positions. Guys like Venables can change a program in no time. Especially if they get the kind of talent that Mack is bringing in.

We could also use the second coming of Vince Young.
 
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I would say yes, but we aren't winning the ACC with either one of them. I'd give Bateman one more year, but I don't think he's a long term solution.
I don't understand the view on Bateman with UNC fans. Last year they give up 30 pts in regulation, just twice. The year before, that happened 7 times. Duck, Conley, Kyler have all missed multiple games on the backend and they just don't have the dudes up front this year. You were able to see what he was able to do last year with a healthy Duck, Wolf, Strow, Crawford, Dorn and Ross. Once they get these studs coming in settled on D, you're going to see what Bateman can do. Gotta have the jimmy's and joes to compete. Jimmy and joe's > x's and o's.
 
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tarheel0910

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What Carolina really needs is a couple of breakthrough offensive and defensive minds at the coordinator positions. Guys like Venables can change a program in no time. Especially if they get the kind of talent that Mack is bringing in.

We could also use the second coming of Vince Young.
Sure, but how often does that happen. Bateman was supposed to be that guy, but I don't see it. I was skeptical when he was hired. Everyone kept saying he would be great because of the Oklahoma game. One game doesn't make a great coach. Same thing will happen this year. We've been average at best on D this year. ND was the exception to the rule, but I bet a lot of people will bring this game up all the time in the off-season. Unless it continues in the Miami game and possible bowl game, it's an outlier to me.
 
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There is talk about how we could have been in the ACCCG because of how soft our schedule was this year. We were better than FSU and UVA. If we were undefeated going into ND then we wouldn’t even necessarily need to win that game to make the ACCCG.

Sam is eligible for the draft after next year and is very likely to be the first QB taken if he goes pro after his third year. Technically he could play five years but that’s not gonna happen.
Yes, AFTER next year, not next year, like you said. Too many people ate all that media talk up this year. Just like Mack said, we weren't a top 5 team. Talking heads love Mack and were prematurally putting these ACC contenders and Sam Howell Heisman labels on them this year. Two years removed from a 2-win season, guys. Yes we were better than those two teams but it takes time to build a program and a winning culture. A lot of these dudes were on those 2-3 win seasons in 2017 and 2019. I'm not worried about the QB situation after Sam as I've seen Maye play the last few years and he's a stud. I get everyone being frustrated by UNC football but this stuff doesn't get built over night.
 
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Sure, but how often does that happen. Bateman was supposed to be that guy, but I don't see it. I was skeptical when he was hired. Everyone kept saying he would be great because of the Oklahoma game. One game doesn't make a great coach. Same thing will happen this year. We've been average at best on D this year. ND was the exception to the rule, but I bet a lot of people will bring this game up all the time in the off-season. Unless it continues in the Miami game and possible bowl game, it's an outlier to me.
DId you watch last year?
 

tarheel0910

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I don't understand the view on Bateman with UNC fans. Last year they give up 30 pts in regulation, just twice. The year before, that happened 7 times. Duck, Conley, Kyler have all missed multiple games on the backend and they just don't have the dudes up front this year. You were able to see what he was able to do last year with a healthy Duck, Wolf, Strow, Crawford, Dorn and Ross. Once they get these studs coming in settled on D, you're going to see what Bateman can do. Gotta have the jimmy's and joes to compete. Jimmy and joe's > x's and o's.
Out D looked good last year by comparison to the Fed years. It wasn't some great D. Personally, I'm tired of hearing about injuries. Been hearing about them for 20 years. You're going to have injuries. A good coach figures it out no matter who gets injuries. But I know, next year, next year, next year, wash, rinse, repeat.
 
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Out D looked good last year by comparison to the Fed years. It wasn't some great D. Personally, I'm tired of hearing about injuries. Been hearing about them for 20 years. You're going to have injuries. A good coach figures it out no matter who gets injuries. But I know, next year, next year, next year, wash, rinse, repeat.
Like I said, gave up only 30 twice in regulation, in year 1. In Bateman's first year, the 23.7 ppg allowed was the lowest since 2010. This fanbase, man. Sorry you're tired of hearing about injuries, and sorry you think these low 3 star guys are gonna stop every team from scoring. Gotta have guys, gotta have depth, it's year TWO. Can you remember the last time UNC had 6 guys coming in on D in the top 300? I can't.
 
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blazers

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We didn't do squat in the second, but generally I feel we made ND earn this one. They were better in the trenches but they had to fight for it. They needed shit like this to win comfortably. This was 3rd and long I believe.

 

WoadBlue

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We didn't do squat in the second, but generally I feel we made ND earn this one. They were better in the trenches but they had to fight for it. They needed shit like this to win comfortably. This was 3rd and long I believe.

There is nothing anybody can do about plays like that. The UNC D was positioned correctly, and nobody after Book screwed up even a little bit. The guy simply made a great play under duress.

That may be the longest completed shovel pass I've ever seen.
 
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There is nothing anybody can do about plays like that. The UNC D was positioned correctly, and nobody after Book screwed up even a little bit. The guy simply made a great play under duress.

That may be the longest completed shovel pass I've ever seen.
This will always be the best.

 

uncboy10

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Sure, but how often does that happen. Bateman was supposed to be that guy, but I don't see it. I was skeptical when he was hired. Everyone kept saying he would be great because of the Oklahoma game. One game doesn't make a great coach. Same thing will happen this year. We've been average at best on D this year. ND was the exception to the rule, but I bet a lot of people will bring this game up all the time in the off-season. Unless it continues in the Miami game and possible bowl game, it's an outlier to me.
Almost never happens but I’m starting to think that’s what it’s going to take.

I know how much talent Mack is bringing in so I’m still optimistic about the future, just tired of waiting for it to get here.
 

blazers

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Sure, but how often does that happen. Bateman was supposed to be that guy, but I don't see it. I was skeptical when he was hired. Everyone kept saying he would be great because of the Oklahoma game. One game doesn't make a great coach. Same thing will happen this year. We've been average at best on D this year. ND was the exception to the rule, but I bet a lot of people will bring this game up all the time in the off-season. Unless it continues in the Miami game and possible bowl game, it's an outlier to me.
I'm still holding out hope that Bateman is the guy. There have only been a few games where we've looked kinda unprepared schematically or individually. I'm thinking of VT last yr, and some others involving running QB's, though Wake this yr was a head-scratcher.

But regardless of coach, the X&O's are second to the size, speed, strength of the players in starters and backups. Gotta have talent, and our front isn't very big and is young.

Jahlil is the only true NT sized guy and he doesn't play much. So it feels like we're playing a 4 man front where the interior guys are avg to small in stumpiness while the two "de" are 255 and 245 without having Vic Beasely speed. It is going to be hard to stop the run AND pressure a QB in this scenario unless you are starting 3 Chazz Surratts behind this 4-man front, but instead we're running a nickel page where the nickel is also small (Trey Morrison).
 
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I'm still holding out hope that Bateman is the guy. There have only been a few games where we've looked kinda unprepared schematically or individually. I'm thinking of VT last yr, and some others involving running QB's, though Wake this yr was a head-scratcher.

But regardless of coach, the X&O's are second to the size, speed, strength of the players in starters and backups. Gotta have talent, and our front isn't very big and is young.

Jahlil is the only true NT sized guy and he doesn't play much. So it feels like we're playing a 4 man front where the interior guys are avg to small in stumpiness while the two "de" are 255 and 245 without having Vic Beasely speed. It is going to be hard to stop the run AND pressure a QB in this scenario unless you are starting 3 Chazz Surratts behind this 4-man front, but instead we're running a nickel page where the nickel is also small (Trey Morrison).
Pinder is a true NT and is starting to get more playing time. Difficult for true frosh this year with the limited amount of time they had to really practice due to COVID. Plus, he broke his hand a few months ago and that hampered him. Bingley Jones will be getting bigger and stronger under Hess and will be a load to deal with next year as will Murphy also. We’ve got DB’s coming in next year that are 6’2 and 6’3. And then of course, Silver and Ritzie coming in on the DL at 6’6 280. Bateman will have some pieces to work with starting next year. 3 more games this year, good chance to hit the ground running with momentum for 2021.
 
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tarheel0910

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I'm still holding out hope that Bateman is the guy. There have only been a few games where we've looked kinda unprepared schematically or individually. I'm thinking of VT last yr, and some others involving running QB's, though Wake this yr was a head-scratcher.

But regardless of coach, the X&O's are second to the size, speed, strength of the players in starters and backups. Gotta have talent, and our front isn't very big and is young.

Jahlil is the only true NT sized guy and he doesn't play much. So it feels like we're playing a 4 man front where the interior guys are avg to small in stumpiness while the two "de" are 255 and 245 without having Vic Beasely speed. It is going to be hard to stop the run AND pressure a QB in this scenario unless you are starting 3 Chazz Surratts behind this 4-man front, but instead we're running a nickel page where the nickel is also small (Trey Morrison).
I understand all of that, but I've been hearing it for 20+ years. I'm just tired of hearing the excuses and hearing "just wait till next year." It's been next year for a long time. I guess I'm just really pessimistic at this point.
 
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I understand all of that, but I've been hearing it for 20+ years. I'm just tired of hearing the excuses and hearing "just wait till next year." It's been next year for a long time. I guess I'm just really pessimistic at this point.
Little bit different when the guy at the helm is a hall of famer and did it once before with UNC. To be honest, we should be thankful the rebuilding is going as fast as it is. Talking about a program that won 5 games in two years, getting throttled by ECU, couldn’t beat State/Duke. Relationships with NC High School coaches were in the dump. Fast forward 2 years — before Saturday, their worse loss in 21 games under the current regime was a whopping 7 points. Which means they’re being competitive and backing up the talk that this program is on the rise and is the place to be. They’re getting a majority of the NC talent sprinkled in with VA, thanks to Bly. This situation isn’t comparable to other, we haven’t seen an influx in talent like this before with the program.
 
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tarheel0910

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Little bit different when the guy at the helm is a hall of famer and did it once before with UNC. To be honest, we should be thankful the rebuilding is going as fast as it is. Talking about a program that won 5 games in two years, getting throttled by ECU, couldn’t beat State/Duke. Relationships with NC High School coaches were in the dump. Fast forward 2 years — before Saturday, their worse loss in 21 games under the current regime was a whopping 7 points. Which means they’re being competitive and backing up the talk that this program is on the rise and is the place to be. They’re getting a majority of the NC talent sprinkled in with VA, thanks to Bly. This situation isn’t comparable to other, we haven’t seen an influx in talent like this before with the program.
Yeah, yeah. It's always, "but it's different than the other times." I would have more faith if we had beaten a bad UVA team and an absolutely horrible FSU team. But go ahead and tell me why "THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR."
 
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strummingram

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Yeah, yeah. It's always, "but it's different than the other times." I would have more faith if we had beaten a bad UVA team and an absolutely horrible FSU team. But go ahead and tell me why "THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR."
You definitely don't lose multiple games that you should easily win... that's not a sign of anything different.
 
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Yeah, yeah. It's always, "but it's different than the other times." I would have more faith if we had beaten a bad UVA team and an absolutely horrible FSU team. But go ahead and tell me why "THIS TIME IS DIFFERENT, WAIT TILL NEXT YEAR."
Sulk all you want, if that makes you feel better. Year 2, brotha.
 
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You definitely don't lose multiple games that you should easily win... that's not a sign of anything different.
They won games they weren’t supposed to win last year, it happens. You think they should’ve beat SC down multiple scores going into the 4Q with a frosh QB? Or converting the 4th and 17 against Miami? I’m on the bandwagon and will be here when the train gets going, ya’ll can hop on later after you get done bitching.
 

strummingram

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They won games they weren’t supposed to win last year, it happens. You think they should’ve beat SC down multiple scores going into the 4Q with a frosh QB? Or converting the 4th and 17 against Miami? I’m on the bandwagon and will be here when the train gets going, ya’ll can hop on later after you get done bitching.
Those examples were LAST SEASON! And, we weren't supposed to win those games. So, that analogy isn't correct. I'm talking about THIS season! I said, quite clearly, that you DON'T lose to teams that you're supposed to beat... and, beat decisively... if you're on a clearly-upward trajectory. There is absolutely no excuse for losing to Florida State... none. The UVA game? I'll offer some slack for that because of the QB, and even that wasn't a good enough excuse, truth be told. If we lose to Miami, then the pace of improvement will have us MAYBE in the ACCCG in about 6-7 years.

UNC hasn't had a defense that was worth a damn in 22 years. Mack Brown is a good coach. But, his OC & DC are just going to hold him, and the program, back. They aren't the caliber needed to be competitive in this conference.
 
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Those examples were LAST SEASON! And, we weren't supposed to win those games. So, that analogy isn't correct. I'm talking about THIS season! I said, quite clearly, that you DON'T lose to teams that you're supposed to beat... and, beat decisively... if you're on a clearly-upward trajectory. There is absolutely no excuse for losing to Florida State... none. The UVA game? I'll offer some slack for that because of the QB, and even that wasn't a good enough excuse, truth be told. If we lose to Miami, then the pace of improvement will have us MAYBE in the ACCCG in about 6-7 years.

UNC hasn't had a defense that was worth a damn in 22 years. Mack Brown is a good coach. But, his OC & DC are just going to hold him, and the program, back. They aren't the caliber needed to be competitive in this conference.
My bad, didn’t know I couldn’t bring up the current regime. Tough crowd. Merely bringing up games which you thought you’d lose, and they won! Take the good with the bad, chief! You do lose games you’re supposed to win, when you’re young and inexperienced! Year two!!!!! Just like they win games when they were supposed to lose! You’re gonna get that with a young inexperienced program that isn’t accustomed to winning! Takes longer than two years to build a program! Ask Kelly and Dabo!!! Bateman ain’t the problem dude, you’re gonna have to get off that train. He’s also an elite recruiter. 6-7 years if they lose to Miami! Lol. Y’all are something else, I’m dying.

In regards to your 22 years of not having a defense statement— I’ve said this to you quite clearly several times but I’ll do it again — they’ve never had 6 dudes ranked in the top 300, 4 in the top 200, coming in on D!
 
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strummingram

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Oct 1, 2010
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My bad, didn’t know I couldn’t bring up the current regime. Tough crowd. Merely bringing up games which you thought you’d lose, and they won! Take the good with the bad, chef! You do lose games you’re supposed to win, when you’re young and inexperienced! Year two!!!!! Just like they win games when they were supposed to lose! You’re gonna get that with a young inexperienced program that isn’t accustomed to winning! Takes longer than two years to build a program! Ask Kelly and Dabo!!! Bateman ain’t the problem dude, you’re gonna have to get off that train. He’s also an elite recruiter. 6-7 years if they lose to Miami! Lol. Y’all are something else, I’m dying.
When I say 6-7 years... I mean that the incremental improvement, year-to-year, will be so slow that it will take that long.

And, I don't care if it was the first season or second season, or how young the players are... UNC should have NEVER lost to FSU or UVA. UNC had better players and better coaches and better everything, and they played like shit. They played worse against FSU! There's no excuse for that, no matter what year it is.