Chansky just thought he was PO'd before...
- Thread starter heelbent
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Hold on a minute. Barry Switzer has nothing to do with Blake's morality and was never there when the supposed dirt at OU, Miss State, or Nebraska went down where he earned his reputation... The whole "Black Santa" nickname and all. Not Switzer.
That is like saying Butch was tainted because of his associations to Jimmy Johnson.
Both Jimmy Johnson and Barry Switzer were no saints, but they are not sleaze. They bent the rules back then when college football was peanuts compared to today. They also were NOT duplicitous like the Johnny Majors, Pat Dyes, and Gene Stallings back in the day who pretended to be saints. Certainly no Jackie Sherrill thats for sure.
You wanna talk sleaze, look at the SEC today. Oozing.
R2...this may be before your time, but OU under Switzer was a freakin' zoo. SI did a piece on the goings on in the FB dorm back in the day that blew the lid off the place. Drugs, sex, money...rock--n-roll. IIRC it was the impetus to Switzer's ouster from Norman.
This post was edited on 1/16 6:06 AM by heelbent
This post was edited on 1/16 6:06 AM by heelbent
Blake played for Switzer and was a graduate assistant on his staff in 1985 and 1986. That's the period where Brian Bosworth says Blake steered him to agent Gary Wichard. Sure, he had a long career as lying sack of crap, but the roots were planted while he was at Oklahoma.
Incorrect (most likely). See heelbent's post above. Switzer was constantly in NCAA trouble and the program was widely regarded as Miami-esque (before Miami). Why do you think that one coach back in the day said "they want us to be Harvard Monday through Friday and then be Oklahoma on Saturday?" Yes, because Oklahoma was a dominant program, but also because people knew they certainly colored outside the lines.
Does this excuse what Blake did? No, absolutely not. But, it isn't a big leap of reason to connect the dots as to why Blake was dirty -- he learned it from one of the most infamous.
EDITED TO ADD: Raising Heel said it better than me, in the above post. Yep, the 30 for 30 on Bosworth was eye-opening because of the mention of Wichard.....who pretty much ruined Bosworth and transformed him from happy-go-lucky college football player into overly obsessed with his image and brand (per Bosworth). So yeah, there's certainly a connection. Wish that 30 for 30 had come out 10 years ago
This post was edited on 1/16 8:05 AM by TarHeelNation11
My wife went to UT and I have seen many a game there so I have somewhat of an affinity for the Vols. But they're not blowing up. The SEC is too strong for them to be top dog. Although, as VT fades into obscurity over the next several years, UT can definitely take back that region and become stronger. But they'll always be second fiddle in their conference.
Just because Oklahoma got caught (same with Miami) and had charismatic coaches that didn't give a crap about perception and let their players be- doesn't make them more sleazy than their counterparts.
What Switzer did was par for the course in the SWAC back then. The cheating was so bad, that had those guys not been protected by local media and politicians, there would have been eight death penalties. Lou Holtz once said that when he arrived at Arkansas it was a rude awakening that he had to manage boosters as much as players.
Danny Ford was arguably on par with the Johnsons and Switzers. You'll never hear about him being "sleaze".... the same with Johnny Majors, Gene Stallings, Terry Bowden, Pat Dye, Charley Pell, Bobby Bowden and everyone that coached in the SWAC. They just had a much better PR machine and local media protecting them when their players ran wild- but doesn't change the fact they were enabling it no differ from Jimmy Johnson or Switzer.... funny thing is, Steve Spurrier has a nasty reputation, but the man ran a clean program.
I just think its unfair to paint Switzer with a different brush than those that were just as guilty or worse during those years.
This post was edited on 1/16 10:53 AM by Raleigh2Miami
What Switzer did was par for the course in the SWAC back then. The cheating was so bad, that had those guys not been protected by local media and politicians, there would have been eight death penalties. Lou Holtz once said that when he arrived at Arkansas it was a rude awakening that he had to manage boosters as much as players.
Danny Ford was arguably on par with the Johnsons and Switzers. You'll never hear about him being "sleaze".... the same with Johnny Majors, Gene Stallings, Terry Bowden, Pat Dye, Charley Pell, Bobby Bowden and everyone that coached in the SWAC. They just had a much better PR machine and local media protecting them when their players ran wild- but doesn't change the fact they were enabling it no differ from Jimmy Johnson or Switzer.... funny thing is, Steve Spurrier has a nasty reputation, but the man ran a clean program.
I just think its unfair to paint Switzer with a different brush than those that were just as guilty or worse during those years.
This post was edited on 1/16 10:53 AM by Raleigh2Miami
^^ I'm consused -- I feel like you moved the goalposts on your argument.
You went from...
Your argument shifted from "Just because Switzer was dirty, doesn't mean he can be blamed for one of his disciples being dirty" to "Switzer wasn't THE dirtiest of his era; others were much dirtier."
I guess I'm just confused as to what you're arguing.
You went from...
to.... (deleted some of your post to just leave the pertinent parts) [emphasis mine]
We aren't arguing the relative sleaze of Switzer compared to his counterparts of that time. WoadBlue was simply stating that because Blake coached under Switzer -- who we and you both recognize as being dirty -- he would not hire Blake as a coordinator or recruiter.
Your argument shifted from "Just because Switzer was dirty, doesn't mean he can be blamed for one of his disciples being dirty" to "Switzer wasn't THE dirtiest of his era; others were much dirtier."
I guess I'm just confused as to what you're arguing.
I just think that it is too easy to point at guys like Barry Switzer and Jimmy Johnson and assess that everything associated with them is slime.... while never making the same association with other guys in that era that just didn't outwardly cleanse themselves with the PR- but were arguably just as bad or worse. That era of college football was weird and lots of shady stuff went down all over. Yet I keep seeing people saying Switzer was THE bad guy... and I don't think Blake somehow got his shady streak from Switzer. Perhaps John Blake just HAPPENS to be a POS. People are born that way.
Butch Davis was working for Jimmy Johnson and he recruited and coached some of Miami's most dubious teams and players- Danny Stubbs, Jerome Brown, etc. I don't think Butch or Jimmy were bad guys because their players were painted to be out of control by the media, something that had been idiotically used against Butch. Butch Davis entrusted his assistants like any coach would and saw Blake as a good recruiter and coach.
I've heard a lot of stories about Butch while at Miami, that he himself was a stand-up guy, but incredibly deluded when it came to how much control over his players and coaches he thought he had... versus how much control he really had....
Butch Davis was working for Jimmy Johnson and he recruited and coached some of Miami's most dubious teams and players- Danny Stubbs, Jerome Brown, etc. I don't think Butch or Jimmy were bad guys because their players were painted to be out of control by the media, something that had been idiotically used against Butch. Butch Davis entrusted his assistants like any coach would and saw Blake as a good recruiter and coach.
I've heard a lot of stories about Butch while at Miami, that he himself was a stand-up guy, but incredibly deluded when it came to how much control over his players and coaches he thought he had... versus how much control he really had....
I mean more than that Blake played and coached under Switzer. I mean that Blake to this day is one of Switzer's handful of favorites. Switzer has always backed Blake, always excused and defended and promoted him.
And I do mean that Switzer is among the sleaziest in the history of the game. He is well beyond Jimmy Johnson. No SMU coach was ever as bad - at SMU, it was a series of oilmen boosters who brought in a couple of politicians, including the Governor.
Switzer himself was as dirty as could be imagined, and his justification is the reason he now gets a pass from so many: he said his heart bled for poor athletes, especially black athletes. If you swear your crimes were meant to help poor black people, you get a near total pass from the media.
If there had been newspapers in Tulsa and Oklahoma City that cared half as much about uncovering the OU mess as Dallas papers cared about going after SMU, OU would have had the Death Penalty before SMU. The SMU boosters began pooling money to buy players not just to try to compete with the rich football machines at UT and A&M, but also because OU was buying as many top DFW players as they could afford - which was several every year.
Switzer was the sleaziest? What about Howard Schnellenberger or Danny Ford? All went out of their way to "help poor black athletes" and had the exact same conduct issues. And I wouldn't call them sleaze.
Unless you have some information that I don't about Switzer being as bad as you say he is, I don't see him being the worst just because he was the target of media ire and because he won.
Jackie Sherrill- that man was bad.
Unless you have some information that I don't about Switzer being as bad as you say he is, I don't see him being the worst just because he was the target of media ire and because he won.
Jackie Sherrill- that man was bad.
Well I digress, lol.... remember how Joe Paterno said he wouldn't retire because he didn't want to leave college football to the Barry Switzers and Jackie Sherrils of the world... Huh, at least Jackie Sherrill and Barry Switzer didn't enable a child molester in order to protect their legacy.
I cannot believe the NCAA took the wins away.... even worse when they gave them back.
Let the beatification of Joe Paterno commence....
I cannot believe the NCAA took the wins away.... even worse when they gave them back.
Let the beatification of Joe Paterno commence....
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