I hope UNC is ready to make a move…
Clemson sues ACC
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I hope UNC is ready to make a move…
I think Clemson joining in is what UNC was waiting on. I don't think it's a matter of will UNC join, I think it's a matter of when.
I HATE both BT and SEC. I do not want UNC helping either of those shitholes.
My strong preference is that UNC make certain it gets into the one that will take UVA and Dook. If it is the BT, then the BT also needs to land a number more ACC teams in the South: Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT, VT, Moo. Fox is working a bit worth bot CBS and NBCm and perhaps each would want to get more product on its network, so a BT of even 28 or 30 is possible.
My strong preference is that UNC make certain it gets into the one that will take UVA and Dook. If it is the BT, then the BT also needs to land a number more ACC teams in the South: Clemson, FSU, Miami, GT, VT, Moo. Fox is working a bit worth bot CBS and NBCm and perhaps each would want to get more product on its network, so a BT of even 28 or 30 is possible.
I hope that Clemson joins the SEC. Not only could we stop hearing their belly aching, bot it would improve the academic reputation of both conferences.
Nobody wants moo or VT. Maybe the Big 12 will take them, but they're probably going to be in a new look ACC. The goal is to increase brand value of the conference. They don't do that for the P2. And the chances of either taking duke is small unless they are trying to use it to lure UNC.
UNC sports are what they are because of rivalries with Dook, Moo, and UVA especially. If the ACC cannot survive, I would prefer UNC be with those 3. AS I hate both SEC and BT, that difference is one of tweedle dee and tweedle dum.
If the BT really antsy to compete with the SEC in football up and down the league, then it needs to have control of VA and NC, as well as have Clemson, GT, and FSU, an Miami to be planted well in the Deep South.
It’s 1 program from the ACC that has a open invitation from both the BT and SEC…And it’s not FSU or Clemson…Make no mistake UNC is gone as soon as possible…They will still play dook and west Raleigh it will just be a OOC game…
You think FSU and Clemson filed suit with nowhere to go? That defies logic.
Does UNC have a spot , of course, but when becomes the issue. The door is wide open right now, but will close soon if some schools don't grab there seat.
Big Ten of UNC, FSU, Clemson and UVA
Or SEC with FSU, Clemson are the most logical choices.
I understand what you are saying. It is what we grew up with. But in 10yrs would you care if those schools were in a different conference, with less money and played as an OOC game? While UNC is playing a schedule like this?
FSU
Clemson
NCst (OOC )
Duke (OOC)
App St (OOC)
Penn St or OU
Maryland or Iowa
Northwestern or Rutgers
Oh St or Washington
Mich St or Mich
UCLA or USC
UNC sports are what they are because they dominate (other than football obviously). Nobody outside of the NC boarder gives a shit about moo. And if it isn't duke basketball, then no one cares about duke. If that's actually what you want, then you would be in that same group that you claim has held back UNC football.
They would have control with UVA and UNC. Everyone else in those states would just water down the pot.
Two schools will always have a spot. That's UNC and ND. That's just factual. Those other teams joining wouldn't change that.
The language of realignment has been football...
UConn...no habla football. Stuck as an Indy.
The problem with the ACC is that basketball is not rewarded enough in the media contracts at only
20% of the value...and only a couple of teams disproportionately drive the football viewing...
Wake, Duke, BC, GT, Va, et al, are not that much of a draw...
Folks tune into rivalries...even a down Miami vs FSU last season drew over 4 million.
UConn...no habla football. Stuck as an Indy.
The problem with the ACC is that basketball is not rewarded enough in the media contracts at only
20% of the value...and only a couple of teams disproportionately drive the football viewing...
Wake, Duke, BC, GT, Va, et al, are not that much of a draw...
Folks tune into rivalries...even a down Miami vs FSU last season drew over 4 million.
You might want to take off the Carolina glasses and actually look at viewership numbers for football.
Included in the new CFP deal is a "mechanism" to expand the playoff even beyond 14 teams. This will be decided solely at the B1G and SEC's discretion, likely in conjunction with additional realignment. This isn't public yet, but the ACC is "financially prevented" from stopping schools leaving for the P2 in the new CFP agreement.
It's not just about football at this point. You might want to understand how this works. Carolina has a spot. Everyone who works in the sports industry has said this. They were invited to join them long before the GofR existed. Unless you're telling me that you're the commissioner of one of these conferences, then you're wrong on this one.
Blind, unquestionable loyalty is for dogs, children, lovers, and fools.
With the P2 changes, it is every man for themself.
Yeah, Bubba whines about barking dogs but I kind of think that the BOT is talking to the BOG.
With the P2 changes, it is every man for themself.
Yeah, Bubba whines about barking dogs but I kind of think that the BOT is talking to the BOG.
The SEC has expanded only by adding on its borders. All teams added, starting with Arkansas, have been in states that already bordered the SEC states. That means the SEC, having ignored trying to get into huge new markets, like Los Angeles or Phoenix, must keep the BT, which has focused on huge new markets, out of the South. That means that the SEC does not want the BT to have FSU or Clemson or UNC or UVA. If the BT gets a big foothold in the South to go along with control of then entire midwest and the NYC and LA markets, the BT can overcome recent SEC football dominance.
That means that UNC has leverage in talks with both SEC and BT. Best for UNC in either super sized league is UNC being there with many other former ACC members. That leverage cannot get Wake a seat. But it might mean that UNC could persuade the SEC to add 8 from the ACC.
If you're referring to Bubba saying FSU needs to be quiet, then that doesn't really mean much. Listen to everything else he's said and the actions of the school. Hell, Bubba just had an interview with TOS and he all but admitted we were trying to leave.
Read the interview of the BOT Chair Preyer where Preyer says that FSU and Clemson are doing what they are doing because the ACC supported the bottom tier at the expense of the top tier....and he calls out Bubba...says that he has made comments in "support of the ACC at the expense of Carolina",,,I won't link TOS...
Then the BOT didn't actually listen to the interview or doesn't understand English. Or maybe they just want him to act like FSU instead of Clemson. I think the Clemson approach (more diplomatic, but still obviously planning to leave) is better.
The entire history of the ACC is about the damned fools ruling with basketball in first place isn their hearts and minds, and that means that you rule to protect schools like Wake, which never should give been in the ACC in the first place. All that love of damned basketball tournament is coming mean destruction fit the ACC.
I've been calling to boot Wake and BC and perhaps Syracuse since before we added Syracuse.
Let's go back to the last time that the ACC easily could have made moves that probably would have prevented this: when we added FSU. By the time the ACC acted to add FSU before the SEC did, everybody knew that the SEC interned to have a CCG, based on having 12 members (per an NCAA ruling about a D3 league in PA). If the ACC had had wise leadership then, it would've beaten the SEC to punch. In addiction to FSU it would have added Miami for #10 (while Miami was still a huge media draw), South Carolina (to keep the SEC out of the Carolinas< and VT (to keep the SEC out of VA). That 12 member ACC not only have beaten the SEC to the CCG bunch (forcing th4e SEC to take WVU or a smaller SWC school, because neither Texas nor A&M was ready to leave the SWC), but to also would have ben much better set up for future football fan growth than the actual ACC ever has been.
There are no such moves available now. The only thing that could happen now is a super rich company with a super rich owner/CEO who wants to show live college sports (say, Bezos and Amazon or Cook and Apple) and buys into ESPN to do so. ESPN would not allow any such partner to show SEC football, so the SACC would get benefit. If such billionaire were smart, he would demand the ACC boot at least Wake and BC and then grow back to 20 or so by adding Arizona, AZ ST, ,maybe Utah, 2 or more from among Baylor and TCU and TTU and Houston, maybe Cincy, maybe WVU. And then use his wealth to demand that the ACC get 3 auto bids to the football playoffs, just like SEC and BT.
Short of that, the ACC is likely dead for D1 football, or else survive with BC, Wake, Syracuse, and that ilk.
Or is responding to all kinds of things. They fact is that Bubba must navigate various powers within UNC admin and among boosters who who so love basketball and his all things that mean 'keep Wake at all costs' that they are unrealistic - they want the college sports world to still be 1975 or maybe 1985, and they intend to do all they can to be able to keep that hope alive, even if it means a dead ACC.
I think Bubba has been ambiguous, but I also understand why. Even on a UNC football, board, I get seen as something far outside the pale for telling the truth about the need of the ACC to start culling football dead weight (meaning those that hurt TV drawing power).
Adding BC was essentially a slow suicide move. It moves no needles in terms of TV football audience, not even in Boston, and its region produces no talent.
Pretty much everyone with any power, including big donors, are ready to move on. Bubba has been complimentary just like Clemson, but a couple of days ago he said UNC has to look out for UNC and there is no timeline for that. That's a nice way to say we're leaving before 2036. You don't vote against expansion and send lawyers to the league office multiple times to study the GofR unless you plan on leaving.
All those making fun of FSU and such, how you feel now? Without the dog barking, are we here now? Bubba has massive egg on his face.
BOT CHAIR
"The addition of two schools from California and a school from Texas to the Atlantic Coast Conference has the additional burden of making of it harder," UNC BOT Chariman Preyer said. "It effectively creates a further burden on those schools that are not feeling well served by the conference, by the commissioner. By adding three schools, you make it harder to do things like, say, dissolve the conference."
"Carolina has a great recognition that our brand is of interest to other conferences," Preyer said. "And rather than let Carolina explore that, it seems as if the conference and its commissioner want to deny any conversation or latitude that would even potentially allow for that. It's a member organization and I don't feel like all the members of the conference are being well served by that kind of leadership."
"The conference is not acting as if it is representing the best interests of the member schools including the top tier of those schools - Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina," UNC Board of Trustees chairman John Preyer told WRAL on Wednesday."
"The addition of two schools from California and a school from Texas to the Atlantic Coast Conference has the additional burden of making of it harder," UNC BOT Chariman Preyer said. "It effectively creates a further burden on those schools that are not feeling well served by the conference, by the commissioner. By adding three schools, you make it harder to do things like, say, dissolve the conference."
"Carolina has a great recognition that our brand is of interest to other conferences," Preyer said. "And rather than let Carolina explore that, it seems as if the conference and its commissioner want to deny any conversation or latitude that would even potentially allow for that. It's a member organization and I don't feel like all the members of the conference are being well served by that kind of leadership."
"The conference is not acting as if it is representing the best interests of the member schools including the top tier of those schools - Clemson, Florida State, North Carolina," UNC Board of Trustees chairman John Preyer told WRAL on Wednesday."
Here is the reality: ESPN makes more money on the ACC than the SEC. That is so because ESOPN pays the ACC so little. So that means it pats the SEC much more per viewer it draws than it past the ACC per viewer not draws.
And that means that on the open market, the ACC would be worth a whole lot more than ESPN is paying. Best for al of us is act with that knowledge as a unit - which FSU and now Coemsoin are unwilling to do. We all could make enough trouble for EASPN, rather than for each other (which serves ESAPN) and then have ESPN not renew for after 2026, and then we would get paid a new deal by somebody for reasonably close to what the SEC and BT are getting.
And that would be even easier done if we got rid of the 2 obvious dead weights: BC and Wake.
And that means that on the open market, the ACC would be worth a whole lot more than ESPN is paying. Best for al of us is act with that knowledge as a unit - which FSU and now Coemsoin are unwilling to do. We all could make enough trouble for EASPN, rather than for each other (which serves ESAPN) and then have ESPN not renew for after 2026, and then we would get paid a new deal by somebody for reasonably close to what the SEC and BT are getting.
And that would be even easier done if we got rid of the 2 obvious dead weights: BC and Wake.
All Clemson and FSU have wanted is relief from a contract that pays so little in relation to the Big Ten and SEC that competing for a nationally relevant role seems impossible.
The Conference and ESPN have shrugged their shoulders. Was not happening. The smaller ACC programs and basketball schools are happy to ride the coat tails of the three programs that bring in the viewers.
If you really wanted to renegotiate, as a group, with ESPN...you'd need a group of programs willing to do it...and there has been no will.
They saw the way ESPN deals when they saw SMU crawl into the conference agreeing to take no money, and Cal and Stanford being offered 30% or they could play cribbage on Saturdays.
Negotiating with Godfather ESPN wasn't working...the line "I am going to make him an offer he can't refuse" comes to mind.
No...FSU and Clemson have gone to the mattresses. And if the conference wanted better, they should have joined them.
The Conference and ESPN have shrugged their shoulders. Was not happening. The smaller ACC programs and basketball schools are happy to ride the coat tails of the three programs that bring in the viewers.
If you really wanted to renegotiate, as a group, with ESPN...you'd need a group of programs willing to do it...and there has been no will.
They saw the way ESPN deals when they saw SMU crawl into the conference agreeing to take no money, and Cal and Stanford being offered 30% or they could play cribbage on Saturdays.
Negotiating with Godfather ESPN wasn't working...the line "I am going to make him an offer he can't refuse" comes to mind.
No...FSU and Clemson have gone to the mattresses. And if the conference wanted better, they should have joined them.
ACC Top 7 — Brand Value Generated by TV/Social Media - Last 2 Years (FB/MBB combined)UNC: $582.9MClemson: $432.6M Duke: $427.4MMiami: $381.6MFSU: $347.2M Pitt: $181.9M NC State: $145.4M (ACC totals:
$1.4B,
$1.2B)
This is why they want UNC…The brand makes money…Has nothing to do how good you are in Football or Basketball all about the Brand now…
Exactly. Combine that with recruiting grounds and that is why we will always have a spot.
Guys, all the talk and opinions aside, let me give you a likely bottom line. We are most likely going to the SEC.
Mark it.. And maybe sooner rather than later.
The seemingly "contradictory" public statement between Bubba and the BOT Chair?
You boys ever heard of "good cop/bad cop?"
If Klempsun gets a favorable ruling from that local judge in Pickens County, SC on their Dec Judgment Action, or if Judge Bledsoe (in CLT) agrees that the ESPN agreement can be published under FL's sunshine laws or that the ACC suit in CLT was premature b/c FSU had not yet filed, watch out!
Buckle up, and tnx for letting me post.
@andrew jones
Mark it.. And maybe sooner rather than later.
The seemingly "contradictory" public statement between Bubba and the BOT Chair?
You boys ever heard of "good cop/bad cop?"
If Klempsun gets a favorable ruling from that local judge in Pickens County, SC on their Dec Judgment Action, or if Judge Bledsoe (in CLT) agrees that the ESPN agreement can be published under FL's sunshine laws or that the ACC suit in CLT was premature b/c FSU had not yet filed, watch out!
Buckle up, and tnx for letting me post.
@andrew jones
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I don't think the statement was really contradictory. Bubba was just being more diplomatic about it. And I know everyone keeps saying it's going to be the SEC, even those who might have inside info say it too, but I feel like at the end of the day it's going to be the Big. I know that contradicts what the insiders think, but I just have a gut feeling that's going to end up happening. No inside info from me. It's just that there is more money in the Big, home for all the sports and the prestige of AAU schools. I could end up being completely wrong about that and I'll be around to admit I was if it happens.
Hoops can ensure dook will stay on the OOC list, for sure. And if we dump Jimmy V classic type things maybe we could ensure Moo stays on the OOC schedule too.
FBall will have a tougher time. If we're in the SEC we're going to want cupcakes OR someone from a P2 conference, not some middling team from the ACC-lite.
It will suck to lose that trio as a rivalry, sports without rivalries aren't as fun... but all of ollege sports is changing due to NIL, easy transfer, all the realignment. It all kinda feels like a big demise IMO.
GT/UGA, Clemson/lil carolina, UK/UL are just a few examples of rivals that have been able to fit in an annual football game despite being in different conferences. No reason UNC/moo can't be the same. I would prefer it be UNC/duke and I would guess most people under 40 on both sides of the moo rivalry wouldn't care about playing them regularly.
ETA: and it might even get easier with conference championship games possibly being replaced by a 13th game.
