I believe it will be hard for Roy to keep Coby on the bench much next year. I'm wondering who's minutes does Coby eventually snatch next season. Where will Roy use him most? 1 or 2 spot? Seventh could be the odd man out.
Coby White - who's minutes does he snatch?
- Thread starter ACokeForRoy
- Start date
Assuming we don't get Zion, Cam leaves, and nobody else leaves:
PG: Felton (26), Woods (14)
SG: Williams (12), White (24), Platek (4)
SF: Little (20), Williams (16), Robinson (4)
PF: Maye (28), Brooks (6), Little (6)
C: Brooks (18), Manley (22)
I think this is probably wrong - specifically, I don't think Roy will play Kenny at the 3 for 16 minutes - but that's how I'd distribute minutes.
PG: Felton (26), Woods (14)
SG: Williams (12), White (24), Platek (4)
SF: Little (20), Williams (16), Robinson (4)
PF: Maye (28), Brooks (6), Little (6)
C: Brooks (18), Manley (22)
I think this is probably wrong - specifically, I don't think Roy will play Kenny at the 3 for 16 minutes - but that's how I'd distribute minutes.
Attempting to figure out next year's minutes is indeed a tall order. We'll have a bunch of unproven newbies (Little, White, Black) along with some veterans that haven't exactly set the world on fire this year (Felton, Woods, BRob). But I know that Roy likes two things more than everything else - defense and experience. So if you can fit into one of those two groups, you'll have a better shot at playing meaningful minutes. Sadly for Coby, he doesn't fit either (I've heard nothing about his defensive capabilities but maybe they just get overshadowed by his scoring ability).
Rest assured that Kenny and Luke start and play 30 mpg. Other than that, I have no clue what to think.
Is next year's team better than this years? It's at least deeper, especially if Cam comes back.
I think it has a much higher ceiling. A lot depends on Jalek's development.
So you think Roy starts Little ahead of Kenny? I think Kenny gets the start out of loyalty but Naz gets starter like minutes.
PG: Felton, Woods, Woods
SG: White, Platek
SF: Williams, Little, Robinson
PF: Maye , Zion,
C: Brooks , Manley
PG: Felton, Woods, Woods
SG: White, Platek
SF: Williams, Little, Robinson
PF: Maye , Zion,
C: Brooks , Manley
I have Kenny starting at the 2 and playing a lot of minutes at the 3. Which I'm not convinced will happen, but that's what I'd do.
I don't think he'll play too much as a freshman. Probably spot minutes though.
No I'm not. I don't think he'll play meaningful minutes in competitive games next year. Ditto for Huffman.
I think Leaky will have a role to play eventually, but probably not next year.
He ain't gonna start, barring injury. And he's not a natural 1 by any means. Coby is above all, a scorer. He used to be a bit of a one-trick-pony for his ability to attack the rim from the perimeter. In fact he went thru a bit of a rough patch last summer when teams started backing off him to thwart his drives. The good (great) news is he's improving his outside stroke markedly (which has led to the rise in his accolades), and I'm sure that'll get even better here.
All that said, these things are fluid as to how much he contributes early. The first summer in Chapel Hill will tell a lot. And of course, the big question for frosh is always about how committed they are to college-level defense and how quickly they pick up the system. That we shall see.
As for his position, he is a natural 2 and will likely work into the rotation behind Kenny. Will he get some minutes at the 1? Possibly, but I don't think that's his best future.
Without saying "the roof", the ceiling of this current team is greatly underestimated.
A couple of years ago I was looking forward to seeing Seventh and Jalek in the backcourt together.
Now I wonder if that will ever happen.
Now I wonder if that will ever happen.
Woods, Felton, White, Black
Williams, White, Robinson, Felton
Nassir, Cam, Robinson, Black
Cam, Maye, Brooks
Maye, Manley, Brooks, Huffman
Williams, White, Robinson, Felton
Nassir, Cam, Robinson, Black
Cam, Maye, Brooks
Maye, Manley, Brooks, Huffman
Presumably some players will improve on defense - most notably the '17 bigs. Nas has NBA All-Defense potential. Which doesn't guarantee he'll actually be good next year, but the ability is there. Coby's lack of length might hurt him in the NBA, but his height and athleticism should allow him to be very good on that end in college. Again, that doesn't guarantee anything.
Well my friend, for those assuming we will automatically be better next season that is question #1. Kenny is excellent obviously, but...
A couple of games ago one of my buds who is still coaching texted me in the first half "man, I need to get a video of just Berry on defense for like 2 full possessions just to show my players how it's done". Then later in the conversation, "everybody knows he's a dog guarding but his footwork off ball is a clinic".
I believe it was @gobblercalls who mentioned the relentless impact of JB disrupting offenses from the beginning of the shot-clock. That will not be replicated anytime soon. I love Jalek and think he will make a defensive leap, but Joel Berry is a very rare commodity.... and ironically underappreciated by a large segment of even our fan base.
Hey, if Zion comes that'll be some mad e-cred. I'm just enjoying his optimism.
I hope Coby's game translates to the college game quickly enough for it to be an issue. I'll wait to see how that goes, before making predictions.
Almost impossible to figure out until we know exactly who goes and who stays. I'm pretty certain Luke and KW start, other than that, i aint got a clue.
And again Fri after noon! He is sticking with 90%!!!!!!
Come on ZZZZZZZZZZZ!!!!!!!!
Pull the trigger for UNC!!!!!
When he picks Clemson I'm going to ban you for a week for your own good. 
Is that a real question?
The same position from which he was the 3-time FL POY, led UNC to back-to-back Natty games, and was FF MOP. Pretty much the only position he's ever played.
In all seriousness, if the question is meant as a comparison with Coby, there really is very little. Joel is a born PG, yeah with Lead scoring chops, but who has always been a team-first floor general. Coby is a born 2 whose first and second priorities have been scoring the rock, and has played some 1 mostly when there was no one else to do it.
It was a serious question, and I was beginning to think you had me on ignore lol. I too consider Berry a pg no arguing that. I'm just trying to wrap my head around the posts that many are saying guys, not just White, are not natural pgs. To me, our last game really showed me a lot about Berrys play and our team to boot. I understand spacing, and other facets of the game, but you or anyone else can't tell me that you were not frustrated at least little bit with Berry and his play at times. ie, driving with little to no avail, only to be blocked several times. I know our post play is subject, but B Rob had no prob getting an easy assist to the post, as did a couple other guys. All that to say this. Love me some Berry, but I also think others can do a better job at being a true pg(imo) by getting teammates involved and not trying to do too much when its clearly not there. NOT arguing, just truly want to discuss. Thanks man and anyone else that would chime in.Is that a real question?
The same position from which he was the 3-time FL POY, led UNC to back-to-back Natty games, and was FF MOP. Pretty much the only position he's ever played.
In all seriousness, if the question is meant as a comparison with Coby, there really is very little. Joel is a born PG, yeah with Lead scoring chops, but who has always been a team-first floor general. Coby is a born 2 whose first and second priorities have been scoring the rock, and has played some 1 mostly when there was no one else to do it.
OK. Well, on that point, one glaring Post issue this season is if you feed em directly on the initial pass, none of them are able to get up a good shot. Luke has some moves but even he has to be crafty with up-and-unders and such. The key to that is that they aren't good at pinning their man and showing, or drop-stepping as the entry is on its way. JB has fed them right in the pocket over and over and we've generally gotten diddly-squat out of it unless they pass out.
In other words the defense has to be moving for our current Bigs to get decent position, so the most effective entries come from the second or third angle, after the post defenders have been forced to move off the block --- and that describes the entries you mentioned like the one from BRob.
One of the most under-appreciated skills of a PG, no matter how good our Bigs are at a given time --- especially in our system --- is knowing how and being willing to move the defense to create passing angles for others. Joel Berry does that as well as anyone I've ever seen. I posted a couple of months ago that his buddy Theo is the main beneficiary of that. TP gets more Assists off making that second pass against a moving D than on his own drives or creations.
I used the term "floor general" and I don't use that lightly. Watch JB's eyes as a possession begins. He has the ability to think 2+ passes ahead, which is remarkable in a free-lance based system. There are too many PGs out there who want that Assist for themselves or nobody gets it. JB is able and willing to move the defense to set up a reward for the Bigs from someone else. Testimony to that is a direct quote from Kennedy Meeks, appropriately almost exactly 3 years ago: "All I know is when Berry's in the game I get the ball when I want it and where I can do something with it".
For far too many PGs, getting credit for that Assist is like a ball-hog shooter always with an eye on the scorebook. Sure, Joel could pound the ball til he gets his Dimes, but at what cost? Fortunately that ain't what he's about and because of that we've put up historic team numbers on sharing and taking care of the ball since he's been running the show. Wayyy more goes into getting your teammates involved than meets the eye, and nobody does that better. Yet, when a basket is needed or guys are standing around or an opponent's run needs to be stopped, Joel is the alpha who puts it on his shoulders and attacks, and fittingly has Roy's green light to do just that.
At the risk of being crude, if someone wants to know why I've been such a booster of JB since his HS/AAU days? It's because as a PG he's a coach's wet dream. The key subtle, nuanced things you hope your PG will pick up before he leaves college, Joel was doing as a Junior in HS, and now does at an elite level on the national stage. And if he wasn't, trust me, we don't so much as sniff those last two Natty games --- and any chance we have of getting back there rests squarely with the PG play and leadership of #2.
That's my take, brother.
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Thanks man, and I do agree with most of your response. One thing I do believe is that I truly think you give Joel to much credit sometimes for what, imo, is stuff done by others. Two passes ahead? If thats the case joel is responsible for everything every player does on the court. And I guess thats my point. If that is his edge, then he should be giving the rock up more often.OK. Well, on that point, one glaring Post issue this season is if you feed em directly on the initial pass, none of them are able to get up a good shot. Luke has some moves but even he has to be crafty with up-and-unders and such. The key to that is that they aren't good at pinning their man and showing, or drop-stepping as the entry is on its way. JB has fed them right in the pocket over and over and we've generally gotten diddly-squat out of it unless they pass out.
In other words the defense has to be moving for our current Bigs to get decent position, so the most effective entries come from the second or third angle, after the post defenders have been forced to move off the block --- and that describes the entries you mentioned like the one from BRob.
One of the most under-appreciated skills of a PG, no matter how good our Bigs are at a given time --- especially in our system --- is knowing how and being willing to move the defense to create passing angles for others. Joel Berry does that as well as anyone I've ever seen. I posted a couple of months ago that his buddy Theo is the main beneficiary of that. TP gets more Assists off making that second pass against a moving D than on his own drives or creations.
I used the term "floor general" and I don't use that lightly. Watch JB's eyes as a possession begins. He has the ability to think 2+ passes ahead, which is remarkable in a free-lance based system. There are too many PGs out there who want that Assist for themselves or nobody gets it. JB is able and willing to move the defense to set up a reward for the Bigs from someone else. Testimony to that is a direct quote from Kennedy Meeks, appropriately almost exactly 3 years ago: "All I know is when Berry's in the game I get the ball when I want it and where I can do something with it".
For far too many PGs, getting credit for that Assist is like a ball-hog shooter always with an eye on the scorebook. Sure, Joel could pound the ball til he gets his Dimes, but at what cost? Fortunately that ain't what he's about and because of that we've put up historic team numbers on sharing and taking care of the ball since he's been running the show. Wayyy more goes into getting your teammates involved than meets the eye, and nobody does that better. Yet, when a basket is needed or guys are standing around or an opponent's run needs to be stopped, Joel is the alpha who puts it on his shoulders and attack, and fittingly has Roy's green light to do just that.
At the risk of being crude, if someone wants to know why I've been such a booster of JB since his HS/AAU days? It's because as a PG he's a coach's wet dream. The key subtle, nuanced things you hope your PG will pick up before he leaves college, Joel was doing as a Junior in HS, and now does at an elite level on the national stage. And if he wasn't, trust me, we don't so much as sniff those last two Natty games --- and any chance we have of getting back there rests squarely with the PG play and leadership of #2.
That's my take, brother.
lol this is the two longest posts of my life and its hard to convey into written words just how I see his impact on a game.
Fact, he is a winner, and is a Heel. I would just love to see him be more of what I see a pg being. His drive would open up tremendously if he were to kick the ball out every once in a while. You know, the same way a coach has to pass the ball in order to open up the defense in football.
That's a bit overstated, but there's also a lot of truth, in that a PG needs to be an enabler and field commander of our entire offense for it to work, and there's none on the planet that depends on PG generalship more than ours. Again, ask yourself why our offense so often tanks when JB is out? Take last season --- even when 7th was havng a good game that happened. Why? Because spacing collapsed, ball reversals stopped happening and we became "one-sided", i.e., if the initial entry didn't work, we were bogged down. Truth be known that's one of the reasons Nate was not an effective PG for us over time.
Kicking the ball out on some drives is a fair point, and I'd like to see it myself, but to be honest I haven't noticed too many of our guys gettng themselves in receiving position. I know he has dropped several potential dimes to the guys inside and their conversion rate (or even catching the damned ball) has been abysmal, so I'm sure he feels the need to finish himself (and in fairness he should have easily 3X the FTAs). WIth that said it would likely indeed help to start looking more for step-in perimeter shooters.
Berry needs to look to pass more, especially off the drive. His 30% shooting or whatever isn't going to cut it. I am fine with most his 3s but his shots inside need to be of a better selection.
Totally agree Gary, and I guess over all you do see my heart knows Berry is the man, but he can do those couple little things to explode even more. And btw I truly believe if B Rob keeps getting some burn, that he could be another corner man to torch defenses.
You just touched on why it's so important for guys like BRob and Platek to get minutes and gain confidence. They are willing to play defense, and they are both capable shooters. Starters get in foul trouble and at some point need to rest. With a default small lineup those two guys and Jalek are vital depth for the long haul.
Not a player out there who doesn't need more work including Berry. His kicking out being #1. Now that Cam is coming around, which would have happened a LOT sooner without the injury, he has a GREAT option to kick out to along with KW. Sadly, our young bigs just can't handle those in close passes the way Meeks did.
I'd add Jalek at point and Cam if he returns. Then, if we go small, Little. If we go big, Manley.
