My crystal ball says transfers in the near future. I said it once and I'll say it again , it was a stupid move by Ingram , falling for K's Jedi mind tricks.
Dennis Smith ?
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Tell that to the next occupant of the Kenny Dennard memorial seat, you know the one at the end of the bench reserves for K's juniors/seniors who fall in diisfavor.
dsouth i was referring to 120 minutes between thornton/kennard/allen/jones/tatum....@ the 1-3..IF DSJr doesn't come....unlike you dsouth, many expect ingram to be OAD just off of shear potential..so the whole sentence was excluding dsjr and ingram out of that 120 minutes.....my preference is no dsjr if thornton stays a second season, but highly doubt dsjr is gonna be turned away if he wants to come and thornton stays...perfect scenario is dsjr replaces dt and tatum replaces BI...we'll see
why???..its was the perfect decision, he will move into the starting SF spot at Duke University and get all the minutes he can handle....also will play some stretch-4 when we go small...perfect decision for his intentions
I don't see any way that we (Duke) would get Dennis Smith if Derryck Thornton isn't 1-and-done. I personally do not expect Thornton to be 1-and-done, so therefore I don't think we will land Smith. Just too much of a log jam at the guard spots. I don't blame us at all for still pursuing Smith and trying to sell him on playing alongside Thornton and those guys, but I don't think Smith will buy it.
I would be completely fine with that though. I would rather have a sophomore Thornton and a sophomore Ingram than a freshman Smith and a freshman Tatum. I think Ingram is a more likely 1-and-done than Thornton, but it wouldn't shock me at all to see Ingram come back. It shouldn't be viewed as automatically a "bad" thing if a highly-rated guy returns for one extra year, either. Especially considering this 2015 class is very weak in terms of top-end talent, so it's not like a top 10 guy from this class should be assumed as an automatic OAD.
Like I think it's so stupid how some Duke fans talk about Harrison Barnes and how he was a "bust" in college because he CHOSE to stay in school another year. Barnes would have been just as high of a pick after his freshman year, but he probably wouldn't have gone into as good of a situation as he has with Golden State. I think Barnes made a great decision to come back and more guys should do it. I loved it when Marcus Smart and Jared Sullinger did the same thing. It's ridiculous how this era has forced people into thinking that there's something "wrong" with highly-rated players sticking around for a couple years in college. For the entirety of college hoops history that's how it's been. Players today aren't suddenly that much better as freshmen than players in the 90s. But I digress.
We will still have one forward spot wide open for an elite 2016 recruit even if Ingram returns for a sophomore year. This year we're either going to start Ingram at the 3 and a senior Jefferson at the 4, or Ingram at the 4 and Matt Jones at the 3. If Ingram isn't OAD and Duke lands one of Tatum or Giles, then Ingram would start alongside one of those two at the 3 (if it's alongside Giles) or the 4 (if it's alongside Tatum), and Matt Jones would either come off the bench or slide up to the 2-spot.
Point is, Ingram potentially not being a 1-and-done shouldn't really matter at all when it comes to Duke landing 1 of Tatum or Giles, but it would have implications for Duke potentially landing both Tatum and Giles. Don't see any way we'd land Tatum AND Giles if Ingram isn't OAD. But Ingram potentially not being 1-and-done wouldn't matter to either of them individually.
And I just have to laugh at people talking about Duke "recruiting over" guys. That is absolutely ridiculous at this level of basketball and it's not even worth arguing about. I don't care what kind of rationalization DSouthr tried to put on it, UNC had 3 point guards on the roster last year. It's not "recruiting over" Nate Britt just because you want to build the best team possible. I mean my god. How anyone can legitimately suggest "recruiting over" guys at the highest level of D-1 basketball is beyond me.
I would be completely fine with that though. I would rather have a sophomore Thornton and a sophomore Ingram than a freshman Smith and a freshman Tatum. I think Ingram is a more likely 1-and-done than Thornton, but it wouldn't shock me at all to see Ingram come back. It shouldn't be viewed as automatically a "bad" thing if a highly-rated guy returns for one extra year, either. Especially considering this 2015 class is very weak in terms of top-end talent, so it's not like a top 10 guy from this class should be assumed as an automatic OAD.
Like I think it's so stupid how some Duke fans talk about Harrison Barnes and how he was a "bust" in college because he CHOSE to stay in school another year. Barnes would have been just as high of a pick after his freshman year, but he probably wouldn't have gone into as good of a situation as he has with Golden State. I think Barnes made a great decision to come back and more guys should do it. I loved it when Marcus Smart and Jared Sullinger did the same thing. It's ridiculous how this era has forced people into thinking that there's something "wrong" with highly-rated players sticking around for a couple years in college. For the entirety of college hoops history that's how it's been. Players today aren't suddenly that much better as freshmen than players in the 90s. But I digress.
We will still have one forward spot wide open for an elite 2016 recruit even if Ingram returns for a sophomore year. This year we're either going to start Ingram at the 3 and a senior Jefferson at the 4, or Ingram at the 4 and Matt Jones at the 3. If Ingram isn't OAD and Duke lands one of Tatum or Giles, then Ingram would start alongside one of those two at the 3 (if it's alongside Giles) or the 4 (if it's alongside Tatum), and Matt Jones would either come off the bench or slide up to the 2-spot.
Point is, Ingram potentially not being a 1-and-done shouldn't really matter at all when it comes to Duke landing 1 of Tatum or Giles, but it would have implications for Duke potentially landing both Tatum and Giles. Don't see any way we'd land Tatum AND Giles if Ingram isn't OAD. But Ingram potentially not being 1-and-done wouldn't matter to either of them individually.
And I just have to laugh at people talking about Duke "recruiting over" guys. That is absolutely ridiculous at this level of basketball and it's not even worth arguing about. I don't care what kind of rationalization DSouthr tried to put on it, UNC had 3 point guards on the roster last year. It's not "recruiting over" Nate Britt just because you want to build the best team possible. I mean my god. How anyone can legitimately suggest "recruiting over" guys at the highest level of D-1 basketball is beyond me.
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Boogie, fully admitting I am not in the majority opinion on Ingram and it for me is NOT a matter of where he committed, I said the very same thing when many felt he would end up at UNC, I just don't see him as one & done. Now boogie, yeah, if he channels his inner Kevin Durant, I invite you to come back here and tell me I was wrong but I honestly just do not see it. The NBA is just not thrilled to draft 6'9" 175lbs power forwards or wings, you literally have to blow folks away with amazing shooting like Durant did and I honestly don't see that with Brandan. What I see is a kid that in time may develop in to a really nice college stretch 4 and get drafted mid to early 1st round but I think it is going to take him a Jr season. Yeah, the NBA drafts on potential but most often when they do the body is already there, they draft on the potiential of skills set being developed. Look at our John Henson, he was not drafted until his body filled out a bunch from his frosh season, yeah, he came in touted to be this great shooter to, a guard that grew up to 6'9", just like Brandan. I get it boogie, he is your guy and but I am talking more reality than hype, I have seen the kid play, he is no where close to being NBA ready.
Boogie boogie boogie, really man, you prefer no DSj if Thorton stays, man I promise ya, DSj is for freakin real, Put it this way, I am not sure who I would take on talent alone at the same stage, DSj or John Wall. I would not take Thorton over DSj, I would not take any guard in this class over DSj, kid is a MANSTER ! I don't care what team in the country Dennis commits to just as long as it ain't your dukies!
Boss man, first off, I was not trying to rationalize anything, I was not the guy talking about recruiting over. Actually, other than the fact that we actually had 4 PGs on roster last season, I actually agree with your entire post. Well other than the exception of your saying your prefer Thorton & Ingram as sophs over DSj and Tatum, just sayin, Tatum isn't just another high touted kid, this id is very very special and DSj is not far from that same area. Thorton & INgram are not nearly at their level even as sophs.
Many people said Tyus Jones would never attend Duke with Quinn Cook there, and that they couldn't play together. It worked very, very well. DT and Smith are being pictured the same way.
Tatum is better than Ingram, but a 2nd year DT is going to be nasty. Smith is good, but it would be close.
Tatum is better than Ingram, but a 2nd year DT is going to be nasty. Smith is good, but it would be close.
I hear ya dsouth, but yeah id prefer a second season of thornton and bringing in tatum and giles....with what we will already still have in jeter...kennard..allen...jones....imo a pass first pg and the defensive ability that thornton is said to have would prove more beneficial to me in setting those guys up than an aggressive pg thats hunting his own shot first...jmo
Who were those many people, that said Jones would not attend duke because of cook? I recall something very different as in duke was always the front runner for Jones, man don't invent something out of the blue and then try to reference back to it as fact. And even if there were those suggesting that it would be a silly argument, Cook was in no way considered the quality of PG that would cause a talent like Jones to think twice, Cook was a combo guard in the first place .
I don't care if we talking a second year Thorton or a 4th year, Dennis Smith plays big time minutes where ever he commits. It doesn't matter what school Smith commits to, he starts and plays big minutes, to say you prefer a second year of DT to Smith is silly unless you just have not seen Dennis Smith play.
Tell ya what boogie, give me DSj and BamBam and I will be happy to give you Giles & Tatum, now you guys would be getting mega talent but so would we. Truth is I don't know who would get the better of the deal but I like my version because of the way those 2 would fit our areas of need. I feel really good about our chances of adding at least one but more likely 2 more front court guys to those 2.
I didn't know he cut hair as well. Good to have a backup plan in case basketball doesn't work out I guess.
I didn't know he cut hair as well. Good to have a backup plan in case basketball doesn't work out I guess.
haha..sheer
yeah but neither of two guys are prob coming to unc...they could team up @ ncsu, but prob not unc...#wishfulthinking
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Back when I was posting at DI, you were one of the guys that gave me a chance. We disagreed on many things but you were always fair. I'll always admire you for that. I hope you continue to post here because I love different viewpoints and you always show respect. That's all one can ask of a rival poster.
Neither of which 2 guys? We have an excellent shot at Bam and at least as good a shot at DSj as you or NC State. With Giles, it is very early, I expect him to wait for a good while before he makes his decision but we have as good a shot as his other 2 major players (duke & Ky). Clearly the NOA now public means most of the mystery concerning UNC and specifically means basketball is not nearly as bad it it has been. So for us to stil be right there with Giles, given all the mystery, given all the negative recruiting going on against us shoould tell ya something about our shot at the kid.
Tatum, I don't like our chances but he has not eliminated us that I know of, if we were to get Giles & DSj how bad would our shot be?
Honestly, I think in at least the case of DSj & Tatum, but Giles as well, they would be well served to wait late to announce, as in very late march or even after the season is over. Would allow them to chance to see what guys on those college teams end up doing. Does Thorton blow up and become a lotto guy after this season, does Joel Berry, do either disappoint and make things appear that he can come in and claim the starting PG spot? Tatum, does Ingram go off and not only show he is a wing but becomes one & done lotto, what does Kennard & Allen do? How about Pinson & jackson for UNC, do they blow up and either leave or play so well that playing time at their position becomes a question for a wing. These are all things that I would want to get a better guage on if I am DSj or Tatum. And of course what those 2 fellas end up doing effects Giles, at least to some extent.
lets say you guys get the commit from Tatum in the next few days, how comfortable do you really feel IF Ingram is not one & done, if Kennard comes in and plays as well as I suspect he may, Allen shows that the championship game was not his career highlite but a glimpse of things to come? How secure would that early commit really be? I would suggest shakey, putting it nicely.
I really see duke playing small ball next season, wrapping Kennard & Allen/jones with Thorton and Ingram as a stretch 4, a return to bombs away offense with multiple 3pt threats, a duke staple. I as well think Obi will play well for ya, not as sold on Jeter, at least as a freshman, I assume the final plum will have a solid season, like a Koubek kind of last season. The probllem I see your guys having is you do not have that alpha male big man on par with Parker, Ochafor, or Winslow. You have role player big men.
Truth is right now I am not sold that we have the front court to lead us to what so many of our fans expect, Brice is really good but he can be hot & cold, meeks is IMO the definition of hot & cold, can't be sure of what we will see from Hicks, and Maye IMO is not going to get a lot of court time this season, I expect to see Jackson or Pinson get some 4 time in a small ball look for us. I would not be surprised to see Pinson end up playing 3 positions for us next season at times, especially vs smallish front court teams.
dsouth...i agree with all that above, i was referring to bam and dsjr to you guys....these kids should def get in a wait and see what unfolds pattern especially dsjr......tatum and giles not so much imo if they are thinking duke...as jefferson will be gone (pf) and im 100% on the boat that young mr. ingram is OAD and will get showcased thus tatum would be able to step right in ingrams spot fully knowing he'd be 100% sf w/ giles in the fold unlike ingram this season who will be a hybrid 3/4 situationally................w/o the beast in the middle this season, i agree that we go back to more shooting as we have the weapons for that, but (mp3,amile/jeter/obi) will allow us to not be ultimately reliant on the 3 ball
archer man, that's just how i roll, you'll never see me on a board spouting insanity, that's just not me....im logical and things gotta make sense..=)...appreciate the words=)
steat, steat, steat..........that is still classic in my book...lol.....mr. dawkins is doing pretty well for himself..=)
guys i enjoy good talk with a lil banter thrown in..=)
archer man, that's just how i roll, you'll never see me on a board spouting insanity, that's just not me....im logical and things gotta make sense..=)...appreciate the words=)
steat, steat, steat..........that is still classic in my book...lol.....mr. dawkins is doing pretty well for himself..=)
guys i enjoy good talk with a lil banter thrown in..=)
Numerous people were saying that Cook would transfer or Jones would end up at MSU (or even KU). You speak of me making things up, but that isn't the case. Only selective memory (or simply being uneducated on the topic) in your case. As for Smith - where did I say he wouldn't play big minutes? Do you actually read posts completely before responding? I mean, earlier you said that I stated UNC had a log-jam yet I told you more than once that I never said it. LOL. DT as a 2nd year player is going to be nasty, whether you want to accept that or not. As for Smith, of course he will play, and most likely start, but to say that DT is a deterrent for Smith is entirely inaccurate. I've seen Smith play; he is a different player than DT and they would complement each other. I'm really not trying to be a smart-arse here, but come on man, let's talk basketball and acknowledge each others FULL posts before responding.
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Tatum isn't going to UNC. Ingram isn't staying longer than one year at Duke. Those are two things that are pretty much decided.
Got a link on "many people" saying Cook would transfer? Dont call someone uneducated on a topic, then provide nothing but hearsay.
I dont recall many (if any) people saying Cook would transfer if we got Tyus. Quite frankly if anyone actually said that they're just not real smart. Why would he transfer going into his senior year? he'd have to sit out a year and only have one left? Makes no sense.
Now there were plenty of posters who said it wouldnt work out, or that Quinn wouldnt handle it well and it would derail the team etc. Those were real concerns. There was one thing that a lot of posters especially on DI would not accept and that was that Tyus was getting the keys from day 1. Tyus was always always Duke's to lose, from his soph year in HS. We locked in on him and we felt GREAT about our chances before the end of his Jr. year. We never wavered on that, so the MSU stuff, yeah he was considering them, but it was always Duke. Jah took a little more convincing, but having Tyus as the driver helped out tremendously.
Now there were plenty of posters who said it wouldnt work out, or that Quinn wouldnt handle it well and it would derail the team etc. Those were real concerns. There was one thing that a lot of posters especially on DI would not accept and that was that Tyus was getting the keys from day 1. Tyus was always always Duke's to lose, from his soph year in HS. We locked in on him and we felt GREAT about our chances before the end of his Jr. year. We never wavered on that, so the MSU stuff, yeah he was considering them, but it was always Duke. Jah took a little more convincing, but having Tyus as the driver helped out tremendously.
Read the Duke boards, whether yahoo or scout. People claiming cook would transfer, or at minimum ride pine behind Jones, therefore it wouldn't go well, how did that play out? Do I really need to go and track these things down for you? Lol. Some of you are playing the same card(s), saying DT and Smith can't work together. Believe me they can, and would nicely.
Archer, you are one bitter guy, no doubt. I'll note both of these things and bring them up to you again after they happen. I originally came over to see how MikeIrby is doing, and figured there could be some level-headed ball talk, but people like you just get so upset when the probable or truth you read doesn't jive with you. I'll take your post as saying Tatum goes to UNC (lol) or Ingram stays for a 2nd year at Duke (not happening barring early season injury).
Archer, you are one bitter guy, no doubt. I'll note both of these things and bring them up to you again after they happen. I originally came over to see how MikeIrby is doing, and figured there could be some level-headed ball talk, but people like you just get so upset when the probable or truth you read doesn't jive with you. I'll take your post as saying Tatum goes to UNC (lol) or Ingram stays for a 2nd year at Duke (not happening barring early season injury).
You state your opinion like it was fact and then get your panties in a wad when others deign to question it. Personally, I think most of us agree with you on Tatum's destination, so you're not really going out on a limb there. And the general consensus is that Ingram plans on being OAD so again, not a very bold prediction there. I happen to think you're right on both counts but your arrogance in stating it as fact is typical of d00kies.
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Arrogance? For calling you out on the 8-ball comment? You really, really need to stop taking this Duke/UNC thing so seriously. It's fun and all, but seeing how upset you used to get at the Duke board, and now this, is comical. Back to point - I never called my "prediction" bold in any way. Not sure why you're even questioning them then? UNC has their chance with numerous top recruits but Tatum isn't one of them any longer. Ingram? Kid is already gone after this next season. I stated earlier that I really don't believe he'll be as impactful as Winslow, and I'm not sold that he will be "elite". He's gone regardless though.
Ingram is a much different player than WInslow is, so let's not compare them or the impact they'll have. Winslow was pretty special for the toughness and grit he brought. He willed us in the S16 and E8.
You're more or less pretty spot on with most of this- the only thing again i never saw was people saying Quinn would transfer- everything else, as i pointed out was said, "he'd sit on the bench" he'd be unhappy etc. All real concerns btw after how his Jr. year ended. He squashed him.
As for the subject at hand. I dont see Smith going to Duke b/s of DT. I can't speak for UNC, although i dont see him going there either b/c of Berry who i'd expect to be there. He wants to be the PG and the man. He can't do that at either UNC or Duke from the 1 spot.
Where in this thread has any one said Dennis & Thorton could not play together? Level headed talk is all good & well but dude, you straight make stuff up and claim it as fact. Show me where for example Tatum has eliminated UNC, last I heard we were still in his final group. You claim it is fact he has eliminated UNC, show me where he has said that? You claim it is fact that Ingram is off to the NBA after the coming season, how the hell can that be fact when there is nearly a year to go before anyone can get a decent inkling of where the kid may be drafted? You have NO IDEA how Ingram will play for duke next season, don't go calling fact that which you just suspect may happen.
Gotta hand it to the doochies. Their fans are just smarter than UK fans. UK fans come over and can't help but throw insults around and get banned in short order so we don't have to read their garbage. Dook fans come over with the same mindset and end goal of sticking jabs at UNC, but do it under the vail of "basketball discussion with rival fan bases". Can't really ban them for that so we just have to keep on reading their garbage. Well done, I guess.....
Smith & Thornton could obviously play together and i'm sure very well, which is why the staff is pitching that idea. I'm sure the same way that he and Berry can play together and i'm sure Roy is pitching that idea. As we all know, it's just going to be a tougher sell then someone who doesn't already have an established PG on their roster- like state (since they assume Cat is leaving after this year).
Most think Ingram is a OAD, in terms of projecting where he goes, it's anyone's guess, but the draft sites (nbadraft.net, draftexpress etc.) do have him as a lottery pick right now. He was a consensus top 10 recruit (most had him top 5) so in this day in age and the fact that next year's draft is rather weak, it's fair to assume he'll go- but of course that is hardly set in stone or a fact.
Think the one thing that is fair that you suggested is not being sure how he'll play for Duke next season. I'm really not sure on that one, he's not going to be Jabari and his game is much different than Winslow. He's more of a Dunleavy kid to be honest- he can shoot, he's lanky, and has a decent mid range game. But again, how/who he'll fit in with is a guess right now since its June.
As for the Tatum thing, it was reported earlier this week that he's down to 2 schools- Duke and SLU. That report could be wrong, but that's most likely where he's getting that UNC is out of the picture....most of the UNC fans on this board via the Tatum thread have conceded Tatum to Duke. I feel pretty good about our chances.
They definitely can, and I think we would have a decent chance of selling that to Dennis if we weren't so loaded (theoretically) in the backcourt going forward. I mean, if we have a sophomore Derryck Thornton, senior Matt Jones, junior Grayson Allen, and a sophomore Luke Kennard at the 1 and 2, that's four really good players for 2 positions. The 3-spot will either be filled by a sophomore Ingram or a freshman Jayson Tatum.
Dennis Smith is a stud and it's not out of the question at all that he'll be better than all of those guys as a freshman. I think Dennis Smith has superstar written all over him, and he's my favorite player in the 2016 class. More than Tatum, Giles, anyone. But that's not really the point. When there's a situation like what Duke will theoretically have in the backcourt, with 4 really good established players, and a superstar like Smith ready to take the country by storm, I just don't see it happening.
Again, I don't blame us for still recruiting Dennis Smith. He is too good not to recruit. I just can't see it happening if we still have the 4 guards I think we'll have. Smith in addition to those would lead to an inevitable transfer of some sort. Like for instance this year, Sulaimon was mad that Winslow and Tyus Jones stole his thunder. Semi Ojeleye didn't take well to being relegated to the bench behind Winslow.
You hope the current guys will take well to the new players who are better than them, but you can't control how kids will react. Matt Jones embraced his role alongside the stud freshmen this year, Sulaimon didn't. You don't "not recruit" a player like Dennis Smith just because we already have guards, but I just don't think it's going to work out for us. And I'll be completely fine with a sophomore Thornton. I hope we have him for 2 years. Sometimes the roster situation doesn't work out with certain players. It's the nature of the beast when it comes to recruiting.
I think our original master plan was to have Tyus Jones for 2 years -- I don't think Tyus would have been OAD without his great NCAA tournament play -- and then bring in Dennis Smith as Tyus left after his sophomore year. Potentially having Thornton for a couple years is one hell of a coup though. I think it definitely threw a wrench into the Dennis Smith recruitment, but it is what it is. Shit happens sometimes. We desperately needed a PG for next year.
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Agree 100% Hark and there's only one solution: kill the thread.
If no one replies the doochies will get bored and fire truck off.
Hark, I'm not throwing any insults - if I wanted to throw an insult I could, but why? I dislike UNC as a rival, but I don't take it too seriously like some of you do (as do some DUKEies, and other fans). UK is pretty much the only base that seem to all be insane.
DSouthr, you've been incorrect in comprehending all of my previous posts, and you did it again above. Just let it go, and remember what I said when Ingram leaves next April (happening), and while Duke stays heavy in the mix for DS, even though some of you say that can't happen because of a 2nd year DT.
DSouthr, you've been incorrect in comprehending all of my previous posts, and you did it again above. Just let it go, and remember what I said when Ingram leaves next April (happening), and while Duke stays heavy in the mix for DS, even though some of you say that can't happen because of a 2nd year DT.
Dennis I really feel from a lot of people is probably UNC or state. Don't see him leaving The state and duke seems to wear off I think Tatum and giles are deals and bam and dennis are packages. I may be wrong but that's what I got a feeling will happen,
