Elliot Cadeau's Season

[TPFKAPFS]

EC must have the cajones to take constructive criticism and either prove he is worthy to be Alpha Dog and show he worked on his shortcomings in the off season OR become a drama king who quits because nobody tells him he is pretty enough!

I saw him prove he is strong by working on his game and improving by leaps and bounds during the season. I imagine he will show the customary Sophomore leap at UNC and will be a Dog! Our car must be driven by the Alpha Dog and the Beta must be onboard to get the team over the top! I don't care if EC or RJ is the Alpha as long as the other knows and accepts his role!

EC is the PG and RJ is the 2G, but the break is much faster if the one on the side of the rebound starts the run out so I disagree that the ball has to be thrown to EC for every missed shot. (+ that SF run out can be devastating) EC must find his confidence and simply shoot in rhythm instead of aiming and hesitating. He must get stronger so he can be pushed around less in the post and protect the ball better. AND he must dust off his serious mid-range chops.

Should be fun to see where this goes and it starts with RJ's decision!

 

[NathanFielder]

This is a way better take than your last one... and I'll leave it at that.

Thank you for your approval.

And fwiw, I don't know why it's controversial to say Elliot Cadeau needs to get better. lol

 

[alabamaheel]

Sorry, but it's way more than semantics. If you spend the last 16 minutes of our last NCAAT game on the bench, I'm reasonably sure you don't "have the keys".

You proved my point. Play like he played and you don’t deserve the keys.

Edit to say. I agree with you Gary that he should have played more in the second half. It was weird odd or what have you, but it didn’t really matter with the game RJ played. He was off. Sure he tried to get people involved and did to some point with some good assists and drives himself. That kind of game was going to be hard to overcome with you best offensive player down. The whole second half was weirdly coached imo.

I do know this, if EC learns how to shoot from deep and finds a decent floater, IN GAMES, then it won’t matter next year. Too much expectation put on a freshman. He’ll be killer next year.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Sometimes as a coach during high stakes moments, you simply choose who to play by the look in their eyes and body language. Peeps often become overwhelmed by opponents, the moment, or their own self-confidence. At this time. it is the best interest of the team AND the player for him to get some rest and watch what is happening on the court! A coach must use his feel for the team and put peeps in the place that gives them the best chance for success!

It does no good to look at it from the outside and presume to know what happened in the various huddles in that 2nd half. BUT... we now have a magical off season full of potential bombshells so I am extremely excited to see what happens!

 

[gary-7]

Thank you for your approval.

And fwiw, I don't know why it's controversial to say Elliot Cadeau needs to get better. lol

Not at all what I was referring to.

 

[imajericho]

The problem with Cadeaus 3p shooting was it was largely uncontested and unguarded. A 3p shooter should be able to shoot darn near 50% if literally left unguarded at this level if a good shooter.

He was guarded early on, but he wasn't at all later on.

If he can develop a shot, he will be an all-american. He does need to limit turnovers also. I don't personally care if turnovers come from being aggressive, but there was a lot of just headscratching and careless turnovers also. Limit those and develop a shot, and he is ready.

 

[Ozheelfan]

EC must have the cajones to take constructive criticism and either prove he is worthy to be Alpha Dog and show he worked on his shortcomings in the off season OR become a drama king who quits because nobody tells him he is pretty enough!

I saw him prove he is strong by working on his game and improving by leaps and bounds during the season. I imagine he will show the customary Sophomore leap at UNC and will be a Dog! Our car must be driven by the Alpha Dog and the Beta must be onboard to get the team over the top! I don't care if EC or RJ is the Alpha as long as the other knows and accepts his role!

EC is the PG and RJ is the 2G, but the break is much faster if the one on the side of the rebound starts the run out so I disagree that the ball has to be thrown to EC for every missed shot. (+ that SF run out can be devastating) EC must find his confidence and simply shoot in rhythm instead of aiming and hesitating. He must get stronger so he can be pushed around less in the post and protect the ball better. AND he must dust off his serious mid-range chops.

Should be fun to see where this goes and it starts with RJ's decision!

Often agree with you but not on this take. EC initiated fast break play. RJ did not and Ingram too often either dribbled up to no man’s land or simply lost the handle.
RJ was better in every way as second or third receiver and I believe that was a factor (not the only one) towards his being named AA 1st team

 

[notashelbyfan]

EC is only going to be as good as his surrounding cast, we can get RJ and Ingram back he will be much better but we don't fill the 5 spot we are going to be seriously crippled, and firmly in the lower 2 or 3rd tier of college basketball.

 

[tarwhiz]

I’m a bit of an insomniac myself so I can relate to that. At least you’re getting work done instead of just reading through message boards like I am… 😅😆

Truth! Lol

 

[tarwhiz]

Elliot Cadeau's Season

One of the most challenging responsibilities in sports is playing point guard for a blue blood college basketball team

northcarolina.rivals.com

Look for all of Cadeau numbers to jump significantly. He averaged 7.3 ppg despite shooting an abysmal 18 % from 3 64% from ft line and only playing 24 min per game. I can see him getting to 12-15ppg and 6-8 assists in 2024-25.
Shooting will be nurtured during the off-season and I expect EC to be 30-35% from 3 and around 75% from ft line, plus playing North of 30 min per game.

 

[NathanFielder]

EC must have the cajones to take constructive criticism and either prove he is worthy to be Alpha Dog and show he worked on his shortcomings in the off season OR become a drama king who quits because nobody tells him he is pretty enough!

I saw him prove he is strong by working on his game and improving by leaps and bounds during the season. I imagine he will show the customary Sophomore leap at UNC and will be a Dog! Our car must be driven by the Alpha Dog and the Beta must be onboard to get the team over the top! I don't care if EC or RJ is the Alpha as long as the other knows and accepts his role!

EC is the PG and RJ is the 2G, but the break is much faster if the one on the side of the rebound starts the run out so I disagree that the ball has to be thrown to EC for every missed shot. (+ that SF run out can be devastating) EC must find his confidence and simply shoot in rhythm instead of aiming and hesitating. He must get stronger so he can be pushed around less in the post and protect the ball better. AND he must dust off his serious mid-range chops.

Should be fun to see where this goes and it starts with RJ's decision!

Sometimes as a coach during high stakes moments, you simply choose who to play by the look in their eyes and body language. Peeps often become overwhelmed by opponents, the moment, or their own self-confidence. At this time. it is the best interest of the team AND the player for him to get some rest and watch what is happening on the court! A coach must use his feel for the team and put peeps in the place that gives them the best chance for success!

It does no good to look at it from the outside and presume to know what happened in the various huddles in that 2nd half. BUT... we now have a magical off season full of potential bombshells so I am extremely excited to see what happens!

I found it pretty damning. Usually, in those kinds of games, coaches are going to play the players they trust the most. And that's why you usually see benches get shrunk in elimination games and rotations become really tight at the college and pro level. For Hubert to trust Wojcik more than Cadeau in that situation was pretty eye-opening to me, regardless of the particular matchup that Alabama was offering. It isn't the end of the world and I didn't agree with the benching, but more importantly I just thought it was alarming that Hubert very clearly trusted a player who didn't play any real crunchtime minutes over Cadeau.

I personally saw a really inconsistent player the entire season. It wasn't a continuous, somewhat linear upward trend during the season like I think you're indicating. Apart from his free throw shooting, he kind of had the same consistent problems from 1st half to the 2nd half of the season.

But apart from his lack of size, nothing in his game is unfixable. So I'm looking forward to his sophomore season. But obviously, it's a huge offseason for his UNC career and you could argue for his basketball future. If that jump shot and floater game prove that they're truly 0s.... Then it's an uphill climb.

I hope at UNC he becomes like a sophomore-level Raymond Felton. 50% 2PT shooter (Cadeau needs to get a lot better at his intermediate and finishing game to accomplish that though), low 30s 3PT shooter, 11-12 PPG, high assist total. 11.5 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 7.0 APG are pretty reasonable and would be a really good season for Cadeau IMO.

However, the caveat to all of this depends on who Cadeau has around him. He's a PG who will be pretty dependent on the talent around him. That's probably the biggest reason why he isn't a generational player. Generational players can carry the 4 around them (Hansbrough in college, Steph/LeBron/KD, etc).

 

[DSouthr]

I can’t see what the article says (long story) but my take:

EC is the sort of point guard who may not always have the numbers, but the teams offense always looks better when he’s on the court.

He makes the pass that leads to assists, he always pushes tempo and he makes good decisions (on offense)

Some of his woes this season were maturity and frustration and I believe these will iron themselves out… especially if he has a productive summer playing with (hopefully) guys like Felton and Berry.

But for the offense to hum, and for RJ to shine if he comes back, the ball has to be in Elliot’s hands at the beginning of every possession when he’s on the floor…. Something that did not happen enough last season.

Also EC should play at least 12 min straight to start every game, not this crazy sub out at the under 16.

As for lobs… get Ian Jackson or drake powell in the open court and I reckon it’ll happen.

I 100% agree, kudos Ozzy!

 

[DSouthr]

This may just be semantics but you can be the pg and not have the keys. EC was the starting pg last year.

Honestly, I don't think you can be a true UNC PG and not have the keys, if your PG is deferring to your 2 guard then you were fortunate to get to the sweet 16.

Seriously, have seen some crazy things said in this thread, for example one guy is saying that if Cadeau averages 7 assists a game that maybe his soph season will be OK? 👀 Yeah and if our 2 guard hits 50% from trey on volume shooting I might find myself somewhat OK with that to! LOL

Not sure how this is complicated for some, it isn't for me, our starting PG spot, handled, far bigger fish to fry now. Personally, no matter if RJ comes back or not, I still think we need a back up PG because as I have said now for 3 solid years if RJ never plays another single second as the UNC PG I will be very pleased. Hubert clearly does not agree, fine, his decision is what matters and yet again fine. Hubert was ACC COY, yet again fine, COY means that his players played well, it does not exactly mean his contribution was great. Hubert was MUCH MUCH better than he was the season before but that really was not a high bar to cross. You DO NOT put a player in a position to have to take treys that does not believe he will make every one he takes and if you can not figure a way to handle that, you should not be a coach for UNC, I don't define UNC as a place for OJT. To do such a thing in a sweet 16 game, has me kind of speechless, to see our season end there does not make me happy or confident..

 

[DSouthr]

Sorry, but it's way more than semantics. If you spend the last 16 minutes of our last NCAAT game on the bench, I'm reasonably sure you don't "have the keys".

Is there anyone here that would even suggest that the QB on the football team is not the guy that should have the keys to drive our offense? Anyone want to suggest that maybe our tail back or one of our TEs should have the keys, should make the decisions, should call the plays on the fly? The PG on our basketball team is the QB, it is the basic definition of the position. But of course in a world that can't seem to figure out the difference between a man and a woman, what should we expect, right?

 

[alabamaheel]

Honestly, I don't think you can be a true UNC PG and not have the keys, if your PG is deferring to your 2 guard then you were fortunate to get to the sweet 16.

Seriously, have seen some crazy things said in this thread, for example one guy is saying that if Cadeau averages 7 assists a game that maybe his soph season will be OK? 👀 Yeah and if our 2 guard hits 50% from trey on volume shooting I might find myself somewhat OK with that to! LOL

Not sure how this is complicated for some, it isn't for me, our starting PG spot, handled, far bigger fish to fry now. Personally, no matter if RJ comes back or not, I still think we need a back up PG because as I have said now for 3 solid years if RJ never plays another single second as the UNC PG I will be very pleased. Hubert clearly does not agree, fine, his decision is what matters and yet again fine. Hubert was ACC COY, yet again fine, COY means that his players played well, it does not exactly mean his contribution was great. Hubert was MUCH MUCH better than he was the season before but that really was not a high bar to cross. You DO NOT put a player in a position to have to take treys that does not believe he will make every one he takes and if you can not figure a way to handle that, you should not be a coach for UNC, I don't define UNC as a place for OJT. To do such a thing in a sweet 16 game, has me kind of speechless, to see our season end there does not make me happy or confident..

I agree that HD did better but what is he supposed to do with EC when he can’t shoot? He was out there and literally everyone knew he couldn’t make one. Hence the sag in the lane. I also think HD was embarrassed for him at times. One good way to fix it Dav is get better. You just can’t hide, especially if he’s all that, and should be running the team.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Is there anyone here that would even suggest that the QB on the football team is not the guy that should have the keys to drive our offense? Anyone want to suggest that maybe our tail back or one of our TEs should have the keys, should make the decisions, should call the plays on the fly? The PG on our basketball team is the QB, it is the basic definition of the position. But of course in a world that can't seem to figure out the difference between a man and a woman, what should we expect, right?

How about if the qb only took 2/3 of the snaps in the season. Does he still “have the keys”?. If he’s benched in the acc championship game in the fourth quarter of a tie game does he “have the keys”? I believe what people are referring to which is a little more nuanced than gender is the amount of trust placed in cadeau’s hands. He obviously did not have Davis’ complete trust. He got to borrow the car for sure. But he never had the keys.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

1st, QB and PG are vastly different positions. They both lead and they both have the ball in their hands, but the games are way too different to compare! Think, a QB is only on the field half the game. A QB HAS to drive the offense, but he doesn't have to drive the whole team! No QB drove Ray Lewis' defense! All 5 bball players must be skilled and must excel for the team to win. A bball team must have leadership and ideally, it should be led by the PG, BUT as long as it has a strong. skilled leader, it can function very well! I don't understand the angst about RJ being PG because there is an argument that our team is hard to plan for if it runs differently depending on the PG. BTW: I never said EC's improvement continuum was consistently upward! That is silly because everyone dips and makes mistakes! I said he trended positively all season and you could sometimes see improvement from game to game! I also don't understand the idea that COY doesn't indicate that the coach did a great job-seems ridiculous!

Leadership is important but the idea of "who has the keys" is very subjective and hard to pin down to specifics! EC will be the player we need next season and it is because he will grow based on feedback from film, his own self-reflective nature, and his excellent coaches!

 

[DSouthr]

I agree that HD did better but what is he supposed to do with EC when he can’t shoot? He was out there and literally everyone knew he couldn’t make one. Hence the sag in the lane. I also think HD was embarrassed for him at times. One good way to fix it Dav is get better. You just can’t hide, especially if he’s all that, and should be running the team.

What is he supposed to do with EC if he can't shoot? Just off the top of my head, why not pull your center out to clear the paint so that you have EC with the ball in his hands and a unclogged paint? There are a lot of ways to attack that but the one thing you never want is to put a kid in a situation where he has to shoot the ball and he does not believe he will hit it, the ONLY time that is acceptable is when the shot clock has ticked down to nearly zero.

Look, Cadeau is a rhythm player, he plays on instinct, he is not one of those guys that makes a lot of shots that he has time to think about it because he second guesses himself which is actually not uncommon for freshmen, especially reclass freshmen. Seth is/was the same, notice what the soph Seth began to do that he didn't his freshman season, turned down the open trey that he wasn't feeling and drove for the mid range floater. That is a very likely tweek you may want to look for with Cadeau next season.

They double Bacot, he was doubled all last season, rarely was he not... RJ was constantly denied the catch and when he did catch it he had a snap double. Now if my center and my 2 guard are both being doubled, ya telling me there is no way to attack that but to have a guy that does not believe he can make the shot shoot it anyway? LOL Ya have the most efficient 3pt shooter on the team (53%) that just happens to be 6'10" sitting over on the bench and you don't use him? But you put in a guy that played very little, that was not in your regular rotation and whose shooting % were very low and that from mostly wide open looks playing huge second half minutes in a game that ended your season?

I think Hubert is a fantastic man, could not ask for a better man but the job is head basketball coach and yes of course we want that job held by a good man but that good man needs to be a great coach if he is in charge of the UNC basketball program. Bobby Knight for example was a great coach, he was a flawed man, same is true of Larry Brown. Hubert is improving and there are things he does well, he is a under estimated recruiter from both the high school ranks as well as the portal, he is very engaging. Hubert made no where the level of mistakes, yes my opinion, that he made the prior season but made some glaring mistakes at the very worst time that hurt us. I am telling you now, that can not continue much longer.

 

[alabamaheel]

What is he supposed to do with EC if he can't shoot? Just off the top of my head, why not pull your center out to clear the paint so that you have EC with the ball in his hands and a unclogged paint? There are a lot of ways to attack that but the one thing you never want is to put a kid in a situation where he has to shoot the ball and he does not believe he will hit it, the ONLY time that is acceptable is when the shot clock has ticked down to nearly zero.

Look, Cadeau is a rhythm player, he plays on instinct, he is not one of those guys that makes a lot of shots that he has time to think about it because he second guesses himself which is actually not uncommon for freshmen, especially reclass freshmen. Seth is/was the same, notice what the soph Seth began to do that he didn't his freshman season, turned down the open trey that he wasn't feeling and drove for the mid range floater. That is a very likely tweek you may want to look for with Cadeau next season.

They double Bacot, he was doubled all last season, rarely was he not... RJ was constantly denied the catch and when he did catch it he had a snap double. Now if my center and my 2 guard are both being doubled, ya telling me there is no way to attack that but to have a guy that does not believe he can make the shot shoot it anyway? LOL Ya have the most efficient 3pt shooter on the team (53%) that just happens to be 6'10" sitting over on the bench and you don't use him? But you put in a guy that played very little, that was not in your regular rotation and whose shooting % were very low and that from mostly wide open looks playing huge second half minutes in a game that ended your season?

I think Hubert is a fantastic man, could not ask for a better man but the job is head basketball coach and yes of course we want that job held by a good man but that good man needs to be a great coach if he is in charge of the UNC basketball program. Bobby Knight for example was a great coach, he was a flawed man, same is true of Larry Brown. Hubert is improving and there are things he does well, he is an under estimated recruiter from both the high school ranks as well as the portal, he is very engaging. Hubert made no where the level of mistakes, yes my opinion, that he made the prior season but made some glaring mistakes at the very worst time that hurt us. I am telling you now, that can not continue much longer.

I agree HD definitely did better this year and I also agree with Wash playing a little more. But I also know that Bacot was doubled a lot because EC couldn’t shoot. Hard to hide a player and let him run the team too.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

We all agree that our coach wasn't perfect. We all agree that he was better this year than last. We all are starting to agree that he is a masterful recruiter and an excellent human being. But we clearly disagree on a few important points. I saw the game and watched it on film a few more times and I disagree that it was a mistake to pull EC. You could see him becoming visibly frustrated, especially on D. He was being torched and it was affecting his play on O. He became tentative and needed a break. It would have been terrible for the team and EC to leave him out there to get his rhythm. I will not second guess who Hubs put in since I think it was just fine, but he made the right choice for EC's future to get him out of the situation mentally intact! RJ and Bacot were doubled for a large number of games to close out the season so that wasn't a surprise. RJ just couldn't throw it in the ocean and we couldn't stop their Scarecrow to close out the game. He was too quick for Bacot, too tall for Harry and all-around too savvy for JWash. If RJ hits even close to his % OR we stop the Scarecrow even once, we are talking about how Hubs saved us from ourselves! And I vehemently disagree with anyone who thinks sitting EC is why we lost! BUT I also believe EC will be a force that helps carry us much farther next season. (& JWash)

 

[gary-7]

1st, QB and PG are vastly different positions. They both lead and they both have the ball in their hands, but the games are way too different to compare! Think, a QB is only on the field half the game. A QB HAS to drive the offense, but he doesn't have to drive the whole team! No QB drove Ray Lewis' defense! All 5 bball players must be skilled and must excel for the team to win. A bball team must have leadership and ideally, it should be led by the PG, BUT as long as it has a strong. skilled leader, it can function very well! I don't understand the angst about RJ being PG because there is an argument that our team is hard to plan for if it runs differently depending on the PG. BTW: I never said EC's improvement continuum was consistently upward! That is silly because everyone dips and makes mistakes! I said he trended positively all season and you could sometimes see improvement from game to game! I also don't understand the idea that COY doesn't indicate that the coach did a great job-seems ridiculous!

Leadership is important but the idea of "who has the keys" is very subjective and hard to pin down to specifics! EC will be the player we need next season and it is because he will grow based on feedback from film, his own self-reflective nature, and his excellent coaches!

With all due respect, my brother, pinning down who has the keys is not hard at all.

 

[gary-7]

I agree HD definitely did better this year and I also agree with Wash playing a little more. But I also know that Bacot was doubled a lot because EC couldn’t shoot.

Untrue.

 

[alabamaheel]

Untrue.

Fact. When his man is in the paint and can touch Bacot it’s a double.

 

[DaveChapelle]

Fact. When his man is in the paint and can touch Bacot it’s a double.

That was pretty much the whole Alabama game. Assign Grant Nelson to "guard" Cadeau or Trimble. Then have Grant Nelson sit in the paint to double team Bacot or alter the shot of anyone who drives, and simply leave Cadeau or Trimble unguarded at the 3pt line.

Hubert was forced to bench Cadeau/Trimble and put in Wojcik solely because Alabame chose to guard Wojcik at the 3pt line, and it unclogged the lane and ended most double teams.

 

[alabamaheel]

Fact

That was pretty much the whole Alabama game. Assign Grant Nelson to "guard" Cadeau or Trimble. Then have Grant Nelson sit in the paint to double team Bacot or alter the shot of anyone who drives, and simply leave Cadeau or Trimble unguarded at the 3pt line.

Hubert was forced to bench Cadeau/Trimble and put in Wojcik solely because Alabame chose to guard Wojcik at the 3pt line, and it unclogged the lane and ended most double teams.

EC will make them pay next year. I’m hopeful.

 

[DSouthr]

We all agree that our coach wasn't perfect. We all agree that he was better this year than last. We all are starting to agree that he is a masterful recruiter and an excellent human being. But we clearly disagree on a few important points. I saw the game and watched it on film a few more times and I disagree that it was a mistake to pull EC. You could see him becoming visibly frustrated, especially on D. He was being torched and it was affecting his play on O. He became tentative and needed a break. It would have been terrible for the team and EC to leave him out there to get his rhythm. I will not second guess who Hubs put in since I think it was just fine, but he made the right choice for EC's future to get him out of the situation mentally intact! RJ and Bacot were doubled for a large number of games to close out the season so that wasn't a surprise. RJ just couldn't throw it in the ocean and we couldn't stop their Scarecrow to close out the game. He was too quick for Bacot, too tall for Harry and all-around too savvy for JWash. If RJ hits even close to his % OR we stop the Scarecrow even once, we are talking about how Hubs saved us from ourselves! And I vehemently disagree with anyone who thinks sitting EC is why we lost! BUT I also believe EC will be a force that helps carry us much farther next season. (& JWash)

TP, what you do with a player that gets frustrated is you bring him to the bench, talk to him, settle him down and once settled down put him back in, especially a young kid because they are a bit fragile, putting him back in shows confidence, goes a long way.

I think we can agree, Cadeau showed the fragility of youth and really needs to emotionally mature but that comes naturally with time. His emotional state seemed to be based on how he played and yet how he played seem to often effected by his emotional state so you do kind of have to mange his emotional state as well as his play. This off season should show a huge leap in emotional maturity from the kid, that always happens when a kid goes from freshman season to soph season.

I do want to double back on this question of what Hubert could have done. You said it yourself, both RJ and Bacot were doubled, both were being denied the catch. My math says that if 2 guys are being doubled that 2 guys are being left open and 1 guy has single coverage. Telling me that with 2 wide open guys and Ryan being red hot shooting and one of our wide open guys being a great ball handler and passer that the only way we could attack that was to pull our PG or force him to take shots he did not believe he could make? TP, if I gave you an hour, I bet you could come up with a half dozen ways to attack that without having to take our PG out of the game.

Tell ya what I would have done, I would have pulled RJ to the bench, more to talk to him and settle him down because he was really getting frustrated, moved Ryan over to the 2. Would explain to RJ, son, right now we can't have those 30' step backs, they have not been dropping, if you get a open solid look take it but other wise if they are going to double you on the catch then occupy 2 defenders, then I put him back in. I then pull Bacot and put Jalen in and pull Jalen up to set the high screen, spread INgram to the deep corner on 1 side, Ryan to the other side and RJ far enough away from Cadeau that they either leave Cadeau or give RJ some space. Now the lane is vacated, unless they play a zone or a box chasing RJ. If they don't fill the lane I have Cadeau off a Jalen screen with a couple steps all the way to the rim. If they do fill I curl Jalen back off the screen and have him take the wide open trey. I get a little working margin I go back to Bacot and Seth for defense, maybe Wit as well. I play a little offense for defense and I have fresher legs for Nelson, who is the guy that hurt us bad late. We win that game I think by double digits had we done that.

 

[DSouthr]

Fact. When his man is in the paint and can touch Bacot it’s a double.

Fact. When his man is in the paint and can touch Bacot it’s a double.

Are you talking about the bama game or the season as a whole? If you are talking about just the bama game I agree, they did back way off Cadeau and that allowed effectively a double on Bacot as well as taking the driving lanes away from Cadeau. But most of the season the double on Bacot wasn't coming from a PG, it was coming more from the other teams 3 or 4 guy, that is why you saw Ingram and Ryan get so many wide open looks. Griffins did a heck of a job fronting RJ, what a lot of teams went to but were not as effective, kid is long and athletic and gave RJ fits. When you can use your PG to effectively front bacot but as well clog up and driving lanes you have to change your tactic, your approach and we didn't do that.

 

[alabamaheel]

Are you talking about the bama game or the season as a whole? If you are talking about just the bama game I agree, they did back way off Cadeau and that allowed effectively a double on Bacot as well as taking the driving lanes away from Cadeau. But most of the season the double on Bacot wasn't coming from a PG, it was coming more from the other teams 3 or 4 guy, that is why you saw Ingram and Ryan get so many wide open looks. Griffins did a heck of a job fronting RJ, what a lot of teams went to but were not as effective, kid is long and athletic and gave RJ fits. When you can use your PG to effectively front bacot but as well clog up and driving lanes you have to change your tactic, your approach and we didn't do that.

No doubt and yes mostly the bama game. They had it down to a t. As the season progressed it got a little more obvious but there were a few glaring times it was exploited.

 

[DSouthr]

Bamaheel, I am gonna piss off some folks with what I am about to say but hey, will not be the first time so let er rip! LOL

A lot of the problem was bacot... Oh no, don't shoot me! Let me explain, bacot is a FIXTURE in the paint, he lived there, the post office delivered Christmas cards to him right there in the paint, had a mail box and everything! LOL Seriously, bacot was old school back to the basket guy that had very limited range, took very few mid range jumpers, he was constantly looking to post up big, which frankly is why Bacot played 5yrs for us and is not in the NBA today. He is basically a deep paint below the rim guy. Big and strong such that he could over power most defenders so he was constantly doubled. No way around this, as long as bacot is fixed in the lane you have at least 2 defenders there with him, 3 big bodies in the lane makes it really hard to drive & finish, makes it really hard to get a passing angle in to bacot and hard for him to catch and finish.

Hubert's offense is based on spreading the court and clearing the lane as much as possible but you cannot clear the lane with bacot a fixture in the paint along with his defenders. Roy's teams played big man ball with classic centers and power forwards so we owned the boards, how many times did you hear our best offense was the throw it up and let one of our big get the board and stick back? LOL But Hubert plays a version of small ball, with a really quick back court that can drive from our point or our 2. That needs a lane that has driving lanes, Hubert's clearing the paint has been for his 4 to step outside but those 4s have been allowed to shoot and they still doubled Bacot so the lane is not cleared.

Look what duke did with flopperkalski, what Clemson did with PJ Hall, to clear they pulled their big man up top and they hit treys such that their big man defender had to go out leaving the paint, driving lanes opened up. That is what we could have done, my opinion should have done with Jalen all season, pull him up top as a shooter to open up driving lanes for our guards. I don't love a 5 out look but if I see a big man shoot like I have seen Jalen do, I am going to use that a lot. I may invert, especially if I have a size advantage at the 3 but I want the other teams bigs drawn outside and away from the paint.

 

[alabamaheel]

Bamaheel, I am gonna piss off some folks with what I am about to say but hey, will not be the first time so let er rip! LOL

A lot of the problem was bacot... Oh no, don't shoot me! Let me explain, bacot is a FIXTURE in the paint, he lived there, the post office delivered Christmas cards to him right there in the paint, had a mail box and everything! LOL Seriously, bacot was old school back to the basket guy that had very limited range, took very few mid range jumpers, he was constantly looking to post up big, which frankly is why Bacot played 5yrs for us and is not in the NBA today. He is basically a deep paint below the rim guy. Big and strong such that he could over power most defenders so he was constantly doubled. No way around this, as long as bacot is fixed in the lane you have at least 2 defenders there with him, 3 big bodies in the lane makes it really hard to drive & finish, makes it really hard to get a passing angle in to bacot and hard for him to catch and finish.

Hubert's offense is based on spreading the court and clearing the lane as much as possible but you cannot clear the lane with bacot a fixture in the paint along with his defenders. Roy's teams played big man ball with classic centers and power forwards so we owned the boards, how many times did you hear our best offense was the throw it up and let one of our big get the board and stick back? LOL But Hubert plays a version of small ball, with a really quick back court that can drive from our point or our 2. That needs a lane that has driving lanes, Hubert's clearing the paint has been for his 4 to step outside but those 4s have been allowed to shoot and they still doubled Bacot so the lane is not cleared.

Look what duke did with flopperkalski, what Clemson did with PJ Hall, to clear they pulled their big man up top and they hit treys such that their big man defender had to go out leaving the paint, driving lanes opened up. That is what we could have done, my opinion should have done with Jalen all season, pull him up top as a shooter to open up driving lanes for our guards. I don't love a 5 out look but if I see a big man shoot like I have seen Jalen do, I am going to use that a lot. I may invert, especially if I have a size advantage at the 3 but I want the other teams bigs drawn outside and away from the paint.

I hate to beat a dead horse but just imagine in EC could have shot at least low 30s. They would have had to stay out on him. Therefore opening up more. Having one out of just five players that knowingly struggles to shoot is ruff. Now add a non threat at the five and everyone else struggles. Not being able to shoot defends yourself if that makes since. EC at least moves the defense at times with his passing but once we became predictable it was hard for him and RJ and others suffered for it. If he shoots low 30s from any kind of range next year we will be good.

 

[DSouthr]

I hate to beat a dead horse but just imagine in EC could have shot at least low 30s. They would have had to stay out on him. Therefore opening up more. Having one out of just five players that knowingly struggles to shoot is ruff. Now add a non threat at the five and everyone else struggles. Not being able to shoot defends yourself if that makes since. EC at least moves the defense at times with his passing but once we became predictable it was hard for him and RJ and others suffered for it. If he shoots low 30s from any kind of range next year we will be good.

Lets also not forget, bama played well over their heads against us. In a way that bama team was UNC season before last, caught a hot streak and rode it all the way to the second half of the natty game before they came back down to Earth.

 

[alabamaheel]

Lets also not forget, bama played well over their heads against us. In a way that bama team was UNC season before last, caught a hot streak and rode it all the way to the second half of the natty game before they came back down to Earth.

Dav trust me I’ve heard enough from the fans to last a lifetime time. Any time we lose to them or auburn it’s horrible for me. I’m a tarheel that moved to a dang state that doesn’t even know what a dang basketball looks like. I often tell them we dribble the football and they kick a basketball.

 

[ChapelHeeled]

Elliot will be in the gym this summer. Now if this board will get rid of these fake posters, all will be well...🏀

 

[TPFKAPFS]

EC shooting all Summer; JWash pushing some serious iron; Seth deciding to return home; RJ doing what is best for him and receiving some NBA love or returning home; 2-3 portal dudes joining; HUbs + Staff continuing their steep learning curve and .....

UNC is Golden!

 

[DSouthr]

I found it pretty damning. Usually, in those kinds of games, coaches are going to play the players they trust the most. And that's why you usually see benches get shrunk in elimination games and rotations become really tight at the college and pro level. For Hubert to trust Wojcik more than Cadeau in that situation was pretty eye-opening to me, regardless of the particular matchup that Alabama was offering. It isn't the end of the world and I didn't agree with the benching, but more importantly I just thought it was alarming that Hubert very clearly trusted a player who didn't play any real crunchtime minutes over Cadeau.

I personally saw a really inconsistent player the entire season. It wasn't a continuous, somewhat linear upward trend during the season like I think you're indicating. Apart from his free throw shooting, he kind of had the same consistent problems from 1st half to the 2nd half of the season.

But apart from his lack of size, nothing in his game is unfixable. So I'm looking forward to his sophomore season. But obviously, it's a huge offseason for his UNC career and you could argue for his basketball future. If that jump shot and floater game prove that they're truly 0s.... Then it's an uphill climb.

I hope at UNC he becomes like a sophomore-level Raymond Felton. 50% 2PT shooter (Cadeau needs to get a lot better at his intermediate and finishing game to accomplish that though), low 30s 3PT shooter, 11-12 PPG, high assist total. 11.5 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 7.0 APG are pretty reasonable and would be a really good season for Cadeau IMO.

However, the caveat to all of this depends on who Cadeau has around him. He's a PG who will be pretty dependent on the talent around him. That's probably the biggest reason why he isn't a generational player. Generational players can carry the 4 around them (Hansbrough in college, Steph/LeBron/KD, etc).

While I do NOT see anyone considering what they saw as Cadeau being very inconsistent last season as an un-reasonable view, I do not completely agree. I did see him struggle picking yup to many fouls really quickly, I mean no fouls at the half and you foul out with a lot of the second half remaining, don't see that much! LOL But he got better in that aspect, IK saw a lot more casual passes that were not good early than I saw late, felt like he took a lot of mustard off the dog, good thing.

For me, the single most problematic concern was a lack of maturity. I really, mean REALLY do not need to see my freshman PG argue call after call with the refs, be he right or not, just don't need to see that. He seemed to let things like that get in his head, opposing players LOVE to see that, the love knowing that it is easy to get in to your head and doing so will basically take you out of the game. I saw that constantly last season, way to often. If I am being totally honest, that came off to be as his being a bit spoiled, a bit entitled, in need of growing up and becoming a man and putting the child like nonsense away. I felt like he allowed his fragile mental state to dictated his over all play and it was not for the better, has to get that under control. That is a far greater concern to me than his jump shooting.

 

[alabamaheel]

I found it pretty damning. Usually, in those kinds of games, coaches are going to play the players they trust the most. And that's why you usually see benches get shrunk in elimination games and rotations become really tight at the college and pro level. For Hubert to trust Wojcik more than Cadeau in that situation was pretty eye-opening to me, regardless of the particular matchup that Alabama was offering. It isn't the end of the world and I didn't agree with the benching, but more importantly I just thought it was alarming that Hubert very clearly trusted a player who didn't play any real crunchtime minutes over Cadeau.

I personally saw a really inconsistent player the entire season. It wasn't a continuous, somewhat linear upward trend during the season like I think you're indicating. Apart from his free throw shooting, he kind of had the same consistent problems from 1st half to the 2nd half of the season.

But apart from his lack of size, nothing in his game is unfixable. So I'm looking forward to his sophomore season. But obviously, it's a huge offseason for his UNC career and you could argue for his basketball future. If that jump shot and floater game prove that they're truly 0s.... Then it's an uphill climb.

I hope at UNC he becomes like a sophomore-level Raymond Felton. 50% 2PT shooter (Cadeau needs to get a lot better at his intermediate and finishing game to accomplish that though), low 30s 3PT shooter, 11-12 PPG, high assist total. 11.5 PPG, 3.0 RPG, 7.0 APG are pretty reasonable and would be a really good season for Cadeau IMO.

However, the caveat to all of this depends on who Cadeau has around him. He's a PG who will be pretty dependent on the talent around him. That's probably the biggest reason why he isn't a generational player. Generational players can carry the 4 around them (Hansbrough in college, Steph/LeBron/KD, etc).

I don’t know how I missed this post from earlier. Good read NF. I agree