He did, I am not going to deny that and yes, our biggest problem is in the front court...
Extremely quick stuff (bama game)...
- Thread starter gary-7
- Start date
BEST youngest coach in college other than Hurley. Those jackals wearing blue are what is wrong, listen to press conference.
Not really sure if you guys are in heat with each other but yeah, RJ has not started this season any where close to ACC POY, so far he isn't any where close to 3rd team. But last night Cadeau was really weak with the ball, way to much casual passing, got to be a lot stronger with the ball than that.
Bama, Al, if I am being honest, at this point, I would start Cadeau, Cap Jack, Drake, JWit, and JWash. I would simplify the defense, switch only when as a last option, work to get JWash taking mid range jumpers and JWit making hard cuts to the basket. That gives me 2 electric athletes with far more length and reach that are constant motion and it maxs our front court length and an electric PG. As much as I would hate to send RJ and Seth to the bench, we simply have to get longer than starting a 5'11" 2 guard and a 6'3" wing.
So let's focus on RJ then. Here were his first several shot attempts of the game.
Missed open 3
Made open 3
Made layup
Missed contested 3
Missed layup
Made layup
Made layup (and fouled, made FT)
So, he saw the ball go in on 3 layups and a FT. Then from that point, he missed everything. Did he shoot enough 2s for you? Or was he doomed because he attempted two 3s as his first two shots. Idk... looks to me like RJ saw the ball go through the basket early in the game.
And you make it sound like I just want the ball passed around the perimeter and jack up a 3. I've said over and over again that your offense needs to be designed to attack the paint. From there, I prefer relocating on the perimeter to shoot 3s but I've said over and over again that it needs to start by attacking the paint. I don't think getting the ball into the paint to your bigs will help this current group because none of our bigs will attract enough attention. So I prefer designing action where your guards can get downhill and grab a piece of the paint.
UNC doesn't even shoot that many 3s. They rank 279th in the country in 3PT rate. They shoot a higher number of 3s because they play more possessions. Now I didn't like the shot quality in the second half, but they're chasing the game. They're going to have to make some tough 3s to get back into the game. Especially because they didn't care about defending at all during the game, lol.
I want the offense for this personnel to be centered on these things:
1. Getting to the FT line. That's the easiest way for them to neutralize their size disadvantage on the offensive end. I don't think Jalen or any of the bigs are dudes who will draw fouls. So that means the guards have to have downhill, attacking the paint designed plays constantly.
2. Shooting 3s and layups. Their guards are going to be at a disadvantage finishing because they're small. They probably missed 4 shots at the rim in the 1H just because they were too little. So, this probably means you have to be more prolific at shooting the 3 ball.
If you think they need to start at the rim, edge out including long 2s en route to shooting 3s, I disagree. I just don't think you should have offense designed for long 2s. But I am probably more analytically driven than most here.
Not sure it's a one against the other thing cause if you want to make a case that RJ is a better pg than EC then have at it and everyone will get a good laugh. And I proudly admit that I was in no way a fan of RJ returning for a 5th year and I have been on his arse almost since the beginning of the season because of his lack of performance and court demeanor. You want the truth ?? Maybe you can't handle the truth. RJ is and will likely always be a relatively non-athletic 6' (maybe) college player whose time has passed. There was another time when the supporting cast allowed him some latitude but neither the current roster or "coaching" staff do at the moment. Seth is the better 2 guard now and it aint even close. Last night I watched RJ fairly consistently put his head down and challenge 6'10 guys around the basket with no plan B and more often than not no other options. He is and has been forcing crap in search of that scoring accolade from day one and it's obvious and the worst part is the clueless head coach still gives him 35+ mpg.
The demeanor and character of a team comes from the HC and works it's way down from there. This is not a well coached or focused team at this time and it's best 5 have yet to start a game or get significant minutes to be able to grow and develop together. Is what it is.
Simply due to Seth's shooting numbers, athleticism and defensive chops aint no way I'd start Jack over Seth but by the same token I wouldn't start RJ unless 2 others got injured .. and he would likely be my second off the bench behind Jack otherwise. Front line is a tough call but match-up dependent and dynamic for sure. The presence of a true big at the 5 is a serious problem cause Wash is not a true 5 and neither is anyone else.
Dude, come on, you ave spent YEARS spouting this just shoot more treys and everything will be alright, just do what they do in the NBA, at least be man enough to own your nonsense.
"So, he saw the ball go in on 3 layups and a FT. Then from that point, he missed everything. Did he shoot enough 2s for you? Or was he doomed because he attempted two 3s as his first two shots. Idk... looks to me like RJ saw the ball go through the basket early in the game." He was 1 for 11 on treys, did he shoot enough of those for YOU? IDK, maybe it is time for Hubert to put a governor on RJ jump shots rather than say he needs to take more of them.
"Shooting 3s and layups. Their guards are going to be at a disadvantage finishing because they're small. They probably missed 4 shots at the rim in the 1H just because they were too little. So, this probably means you have to be more prolific at shooting the 3 ball." And yet our scoring efficiency is more from 2 than from 3. RJ scored what, 18 last night, 15 of those points were not from the trey area? Maybe do more of what is resulting in scoring and less of what ain't?
"
You can not imagine how much I want to tell you how WRONG you are in this reply but you are calling the balls and strikes like they are being thrown right now, hard to argue against that. Problem with the truth is it is usually served cold, much of the time it isn't what we want to hear. I do not want to hear JWash is having bad showing after bad showing but the truth is, well you saw it. I don't want to admit that RJ is wetting the bed, I wanted to be really excited about RJ coming back for a 5th season but I wasn't, I wanted and still want to be wrong about that.
Seth is my favorite player on this team, my saying that should not shock anyone, have shared that many times but yeah, I think we simply need more length and Cappy is electric length, may be 6'4" but plays much longer. I MUST have that length at the 2 and 3 and unless I start Seth at the point I can't start him and I am starting Cadeau at the point full stop. Drake is dynamic electric length at the 3, he is fighting giants at the 4.
Fair point D. But there's something to be said for Seth's athleticism and I'd love to see Seth and Jack on the vertical board. I also have to give the edge to Seth on the defensive side which we need badly. To each their own my friend.
I think I've said repeatedly that you need to attack the paint in order to get quality 3PT looks. If you think my ideal form of basketball is tossing it around the perimeter and shooting a 3, then you're simply mistaken. I also never said RJ should shoot more and have never complimented him on his shot selection. I have more of a problem with Cadeau passing up open looks. When he turns down open looks, it oftentimes ends with RJ shooting something contested late shot clock.
And this reminds me a lot of the "take the points" crowd in football. There's 0 guarantee that the kicker is making the FG. There's 0 guarantee that UNC is getting better looks from 2 than they had from 3. What, you want to pick and pop Jalen Washington more? If Jalen Washington is your answer, what the hell is the question even? lol. Even with how poorly RJ is playing, I'm still much more comfortable depending on him than Jalen Washington at this point of his career. What has Washington ever done to earn so many people (including this coaching staff's) trust?
And I'll ignore that the 3PT line largely gave UNC a chance to win against Dayton and Michigan State in those comebacks. Maybe I shouldn't but just because we're so focused on the Alabama game now, let's ignore the season long sample size so far.
Alabama has the 8th best 2PT% in the country, the 181st best 3PT% in the country.... I wonder why they still attempt 48% of their shots from 3?
Maybe the analytics matter. That's why.
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One bad game, which was the byproduct of the garbage I described?
So yeah, ss I said, GMAFB with that idiotic crap, and quite honestly, if you can't do any better than that, then perhaps you would be well advised to actually think before you post.
Can’t handle the truth? lol ok. FYI I’m not a fan of any player playing five years. I hate it with a passion but at the same time you and several others have crowned EC and the second coming. You literally can’t see the forest for the trees. Who in the crap is gonna score? Rjs demeanor has not changed during the heat of the moment. Is he discouraged? Sure I would be too if I couldn’t do something like I’ve always done. He’s a scorer. I think several people myself included are starting to realize EC can’t shoot. He’s turning the ball over. And seriously do you really love his demeanor of kicking and screaming like a baby when he clearly fouls someone? Have at it. You’ve drank the koolaid that somebody’s been pouring. I see through shades of blue just like most heels fans but I can also tell this team has a lot bigger fish to fry than RJ and his shooting woes.
Y'know, I try to be tolerant --- I really do --- but let's review your post, shall we?:
"EC played like shit and got exposed.
It’s starting to be a trend against talented guards. Sorry Gary"
Meanwhile, 300+ D1 HCs would be laughing their collective asses off at that bloviation of idiocy.
Seriously, if you believe for a second that EC "got exposed", well... the nicest thing I can say is that you and the world would be better off if you never posted on a basketball board again.
Just f***ing wow... SMDH.
Bro, he has as many turnovers as assists over 4 games. He had I think 6 alone in the 1st half against Dayton or someone.
Cadeau isn't the main problem. The main problem is the front court. But he is a problem, a fixable one, just as much as RJs shooting woes, which is also fixable. The main problem I don't think is fixable so that's concerning lol.
If you can’t see it there’s no helping you.
Also you probably still think Jalen Washington is good enough to start at center for the North Carolina Tarheels!
That would make some grade school coaches laugh there asses off at you!
I think the main problem right now is Hubert, & that’s fixable also if he’ll look in the mirror & be less stubborn (or have some sit downs with Roy). Certainly the personnel could be better in spots, but the ball movement & shot selection is questionable at best, that’s on the staff. Use multiple defenses, get back to the secondary break, & put people (mostly JWash, but others too) in position where they can succeed. Cadeau is having a little bit of a rough stretch, but I do believe EC is a generational talent with his vision & passing acumen, but Hubert is not utilizing that to the teams fullest advantage.
I like him as much as you do. Four year college player nba player has no shot at leaving early. Behind the scenes what are scouts saying about our favorite current player Gary?
Wow DS... For some reason I reviewed the box score after this game but reading the results you posted, it's even worse, I can't unsee it lmao... Seriously though, can we see some possible good news here? Instead of going 5-27 they went 10-27 from 3, this is a close game, even if they we getting abused on D. Being a team full of highly touted guards, they should easily shoot 10-27 from 3 on a bad day. I guess the reoccurring scouting report on this team is to simply shut down shooters cuz there is nothing down low. I know one argument is that coaches don't grab rebounds and miss shots but I agree with a lot of comments I've been reading here, coaching is the root of the problem. I really hate blaming the coaching here but it's becoming quite obvious that this is an area of concern.
Nathan very interesting, thanks for sharing. I replied to DSou earlier, as bad as this team was getting abused on D, if each one of those guys you mention hit just one open look, this is a different game.
Not all three point shots are equal guys. Running good stuff to get better, preferably inside-out 3s off the catch is imperative. So much of this thread should be in the "RJ coming back" thread honestly. Love the kid but am surprised how many glimpses of Caleb style gotta get my shots he's showing. Even worse at least many of Caleb's were late in the shot clock takes.
Wouldn't argue one bit with any of that !!
No one has played consistently well this year. For Withers and the freshmen that is not surprising. Washington has not shown he is ready for extended minutes playing in the post. The transfers are not (or at least have shown it) ready to play at ACC level,
Davis, Cadeau and Trimble have been really good at times but not every game, and they have had some stinkers. This team collectively has VERY little room for error, especially against major programs.
Are the problems fixable, not as far as the make-up of the roster but weaknesses can be minimized IF the staff can adjust and adapt how they want to play. So far they have not shown they can do that. I loved Hubert as a player but thought he was the wrong guy for the job due to lack of HC experience. I hoped he would retain Roberson or bring on another "gray-headed assistant" with some experience but that did not happen.
The season is not over but UNC is looking at being right on the bubble (AGAIN) come February. That is not the standard for Carolina basketball.
Davis, Cadeau and Trimble have been really good at times but not every game, and they have had some stinkers. This team collectively has VERY little room for error, especially against major programs.
Are the problems fixable, not as far as the make-up of the roster but weaknesses can be minimized IF the staff can adjust and adapt how they want to play. So far they have not shown they can do that. I loved Hubert as a player but thought he was the wrong guy for the job due to lack of HC experience. I hoped he would retain Roberson or bring on another "gray-headed assistant" with some experience but that did not happen.
The season is not over but UNC is looking at being right on the bubble (AGAIN) come February. That is not the standard for Carolina basketball.
Want some good news hidden in the last 2 games, Cappy Jack and Drake BOTH had explosive scoring games, means they are BOTH finding their confidence at this level of play. These 2 guys are what I call middle length long, those 2 and 3 spot guards that have extra long reach and active hands. For a team as tiny as we are it is very important your middle length guys give you some advantage.
3pt shooting can be deceptive if just looking at a box score because all 3pt shots are not alike. A step back trey over a defenders hand is simply harder than a open catch and shoot, especially if the pass comes from inside the paint outside to the spot up shooter, as I saw bama taking all night. The point you will see me hammer game after game, season after season, is quality over quantity. A bad shot will always and forever be a bad shot, it may have a great result but it is still a bad shot. A good shot will always be a good shot as well, it may as well not have a good result but still a shot you should take. Take to many bad shots and you chances at winning approach ZERO! For our 3pt % to increase we need to take higher quality shots.
Another emerging problem that I am now watching is our main attack seems to be a guard will drive the lane and is exclusively looking to finish or draw a foul or maybe and 1. How often in the last few games have you seen RJ or Seth drive and drive it to set up the kick back out to a spot up shooter? How many times did you see bama do just that? For me a very important box score line I look at is how many assists did we get off our made shots, you want to be at 50% or better, vs bama we were what 12 on 37 made shots, geez we had 13 turn overs to 12 assists? That is no where close to being UNC basketball...
LOL, Nate, in that reply to me, said our shooting 27 treys vs bama was not that many? LOL It darn sure is if you are going to make only 5 of them! The definition of insanity is "doing the same things you have already done and expecting different results"...
I saw Hubert literally come real close to cussing when Tyson passed up a couple of treys a couple games ago? BOTH of those situations Tyson made the better decision to pass the ball rather than take a rushed trey from the deep corner. I don't want to see my coach screaming for a guy to take a bad shot with time left on the clock any more than I like Nate droning on about the need to take treys in abundance. The ENTIRE discussion of offense should always be about take high quality shots no matter where the shooters feet may be, you should NEVER look at your feet before you take a jump shot unless it is a end of game situation and no time on the clock down by 3.
I want to say this VERY clearly, ANY player that passes up a shot made the best decision, you NEVER want a player taking a shot he does not feel good about.
Then why is RJ shooting 24% from 3 and still getting 35 minutes a game? It damn sure ain't his defense. I know, don't be thinking about puttin' A1 sauce on the UNC sacred cow .. or ram as it were .. 🙄
lol u talking about RJ being the sacred cow? EC has been the second coming buddy. Just quit, because everyone including me can admit when RJ sucks it up(which is often lately). Just wished it was reciprocated. Blind following smh
I think we found our point guard for next season. He is on tge roster, and will likely be on next seasons roster too, unless he transfers.
No NBA team is going to draft him playing like this.
What sorts of sets do you think would be best at getting our guards going downhill in the paint? And what are we doing wrong with our current plays?
Here is what is destroying. Want RJ taking stupid shots or white or black unknow player from bench? That sounds like coach problem. Discuss. To put it bluntly to agree with other RJ is lamb being slaugherted. Not very pretty. Why did Gary not argue my EC statement? EC passing ability but too creative. Old enough people how may Bird turnovers passing per game. ONE maybe passes were perfect but not fancy got them there object of game. Human Highlight fifty time better athlete than LB did he ever beat him twice in big game?
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About all that can be gleaned from this game. I actually don’t think we’re a bad basketball team. We’ve lost some games against really good teams. The Alabama Game was disappointing from the defensive side of the ball. Too many wide open looks, lack of communication, no rim protection, not enough pressure and trapping. In my humble opinion, I like the emergence of Jackson and Powell, and believe that our front court can be utilized by the secondary break, pick and rolls, and going from the blocks to the elbows. And they must help protect the rim. No more Withers or JWash shooting threes! EC and RJ are pressing to try to do too much offensively to make up for our front court. EC is a great passer and facilitator. RJ has to curl off screens, drive and finish, but not attack when the rim is protected. Defense, trap, rebound, secondary break, reduce dribbling, work it in and out, and get some identity on offense and defense! There is a lot pressure and expectations are high at UNC. I am optimistic , but the coaching staff has to have answers and get them to buy in! I don’t think the roles are clearly defined- individually or as a team. I’m anxious to see us today. I enjoy reading the passion and ideas of those in this forum- I will always believe in my Tar Heels!
I don't think they were ready to play MSU, looked like they were ready to leave the islands after that bama game but had to play MSU. But important to realize, this team has lost to Kansas, Auburn, and Alabama, 3 teams that may be 3 of the 5 best teams in the country, not as if the sky is falling losing to those guys.
This isn’t related to your question but every game I would run the first play specifically for the starting 5. Just to get them engaged right away. Preferably you have something designed for a layup or something in the paint. But get the 5 involved and engaged right away.
What I see is UNC doesn’t really run any kind of PG-big ball screen early in the possession. The screen is usually for RJ or Seth and then UNC does that reverse the ball around the perimeter thing they've down for 50 years that's quite honestly outdated unless you're going to run good action off that. And good action isn't simply a back screen lob IMO.
Alabama usually runs some kind of action for their primary ball handler. It isn't overly complicated to run a 1-5 drag screen and get the PG going towards the basket, or at least towards the paint. From there, Alabama can run action off the ball or if the ballhandler has an advantage, their corner shooters can either stay in the corner, or relocate to the wing. That depends on the angles that are created from the downhill drive.
If you can have some success with that, it IMMEDIATELY opens up your offense. Because if teams overcommit, then you can clear one side and slip screen that look too.
This isn’t an effective freelance team because Cadeau, RJ, and Seth need the ball in their hands and need to dribble it to score in the half court. So in the halfcourt there needs to be some basic action to help the primary ball handler get into the paint IMO.
Right now, this offense is more designed for Cadeau to beat his man 1 on 1 and kicking it out to RJ after he relocates usually towards the corner. Well Cadeau isn’t always winning his matchup and that’s a lot to put on him. Give him some help.
Alabama has a fair amount of structure to their 5 out. Especially compared to UNC. There’s too much depending on winning 1 on 1 right now. It’s like when an Offensive Coordinator in football needs their WRs to win 1 on 1 all the time as opposed to scheme and design helping.
At least that’s how I see it.
You're right we do a fair amount of secondary break type stuff or dribble handoffs / pistol. I feel like we do run a fair amount of high ball screens for RJ + Cadeau early in the possession though. The issues on PnR to me are:
1) very little threat from the bigs, whether they roll or pop
2) Cadeau can't really shoot and is turning the ball over
3) RJ isn't a great driver. He's even worse in Iso, but isos open up his step back. In PnR as the main ball handler RJ takes a lot of pullup 2s and floaters, which aren't great shots, even for him
4) the rest of the team doesn't have a lot of great shooters, so off-ball help often deters a successful drive
I feel like you can scheme around a couple of these, but all four is pretty hard. Our offense may still be pretty good just bc of RJ/Cadeau's talent, but it seems like an odd collection of players (and the fit is even worse on the defensive end).
