For the Drinkers: I need advice on my brother's drinking, please.

[strummingram]

Back story:

Okay, as some of you know, I don't drink. I drank in high school and the short time I was in college (I did too much recreational stuff). I drank to extreme excess and it cost me. So, I have been sober since 1988. My father, grandfather and so on were alcoholics.

Now, my concern is my younger brother. I visit him in person at least once a year in Minnesota. He has a high-stress job, went through a divorce about 18 months ago and nearly killed him, he has full custody of both daughters. He makes 6 figures, but it comes at a price. He has a fiance' now who lives with him and the girls.

He has always drank alcohol. He, like me, did it to excess in younger years, but he kept on after he got married. Over the years, I noticed he kept his "hard drinking" to weekend nights only. This trip, I noticed his consumption was every night. However, the consumption doesn't seem to affect his overall demeanor... he doesn't get drunk. Now, you guys that drink can help me gauge the consumption and what average consumption SHOULD do.

He drinks about 4-5 Jager-bombs (Jagermeister & Red Bull), and another 4 cans of Icehouse beer (5.5% alcohol beer). And, it has no "outward" effect on his demeanor. I assume it's to wind-down. The weekend level is even more, because on weekends he will get "drunk".

My question is; Is that a lot of daily alcohol consumption? I don't know squat about Jagermeister. But, I gotta believe all that Redbull and Jager is taking a toll on his body. He smokes, too. Do Jager-Bombs provide knockout punches for most people?

 

[toophly1124]

I haven’t touched Jager since my early 20s but from what I remember I could drink 4-5 and it not affect my demeanor. The ice houses tho ouch. Those are heavy ass beers although 4 of those a day wouldn’t be worrisome either I don’t think. I’d worry more about the mixing of the energy drink and beer. I’ve never drank one but I believe that’s basically what Four Loko was and if I’m not mistaken caused several heart issues w people.

Full disclosure I drink about every day of my life. Usually 4-5 beers a night if I’m being honest. I try to keep my liquor to the weekends but some weeks I’ll drink liquor throughout the week as well. A shot or two w the beers.

In conclusion. I personally don’t think it’s that much but I’m sure doctors would disagree. My doc has always told me no more than 2 beers a day bc that’s all the liver can process at one time. I’m honest w him on how much I drink and he’s never tried to check me into rehab or anything so I think everything is good. Everything should be in moderation though so I guess if he drinks that everyday for 20 years then yea it may cause some health concerns.

 

[coryfly]

I mean, he is probably a functioning alcoholic. TBH, the concern seems to be more health related than anything else. Eventually it will probably kill him, though eventually is hard to define. I drink quite a bit and all of that would certainly make me at least semi drunk. So yeah, he certainly seems to be an alcoholic. All just my opinion though.

 

[strummingram]

Jager is a liqueur, not a "liquor", apparently. Whatever that means.

 

[toophly1124]

Jager is a liqueur, not a "liquor", apparently. Whatever that means.

It’s all the same I think. Although I think ‘liqueur’ refers to like a sweet liquor. Usually not as strong. I could be wrong.

 

[gkid]

we'LL merk nebdy

 

[BillyL]

Eddie . . what is your brother's age . . ?

 

[cletusnow]

Jager is less abv than typical weak whiskey/bourbon. 4 bombs might be close to 3 shots. As long as it doesn’t adversely affect his daily life my guess is that it’s ok. Would worry more about long term health as his tolerance and subsequent consumption increase. I have seen alcoholics that can function normally after a fifth of whatever.

 

[strummingram]

Eddie . . what is your brother's age . . ?

42

 

[gteeitup]

strum, nobody should be mixing alcohol with red bull, nobody.

yes, imo, that’s a lot...however, apparently it’s not that uncommon as most of the people we associate with in our neighborhood, etc., also drink “a lot”...i was conflicted with this because i was two glasses of wine and a beer daily for about a decade...i started that coincidentally when my mom passed away in 2006 from cancer...for me it could’ve been depression, genetic, who knows...the point is, before she died, having only been a weekend warrior as far as drinking, it alarmed me one day about six months ago...in the other “drinking” thread i mentioned that i decided to stop during the week to see if i could...turns out i did have some constitution or will, and i did it.

this isn’t a poast for a pat on my back, but it’s more about understanding...i hope somehow you can help him...it’s never a good thing to drink as a way of relieving stress or masking pain from other issues.

 

[gunslingerdick]

8-10 drinks per night? Uhh, yeah, that's a shit ton. I drink almost daily. Light days are 1-2 beers in the evening. Medium days are 3-6 beers. Heavy days are 6-12 drinks (beer, bourbon). Per month it breaks down like this for me:

15-18 light days
8-10 medium days
2-3 heavy days

Light days are just any day. I like having a cold beer after working out of while I'm making dinner or something. Medium days are regular days but I have plans to watch a game or two. Heavy days are rare weekend days when I don't have shit to do or anywhere to be, company visiting, etc.

But my dad has always said, "it's not how much you drink, but what it does to you.". I agree. I know people that can have a higher daily intake but still live perfectly happy and healthy lives. I also know many alcoholics as it runs in my family. I have no advice or suggestions of any sort. Just adding what I can. Good luck to your bro.

 

[coryfly]

Yeah, I have two friends who are definitely alcoholics. They both have pretty good jobs and families (well, one is engaged but the other has three kids and an ex, so I guess family is relative). Regardless, they function just fine. Still, long term the impact on one's health is going to be bad unless one is extremely lucky.

As for quitting, I'm considering quitting sugar soon, which will cut out most of my drinking except for beer. That will make me drink a lot less as I like beer but only a couple at a time mostly.

 

[uncboy10]

Don't want to come off like a jerk, but any amount of alcohol on a daily basis will have physiological implications.

You would really gauge his addiction by how he behaves and feels after a few days with no alcohol whatsoever. If he gets sick, loses appetite etc then he has a serious problem and very quickly needs to start cuttting back.

His tolerance doesn't surprise me. I was a full blown alcoholic that could drink 24 light beers in a night by my senior year of high school. Alcohol tolerance can get to ridiculous levels if you try hard enough.

Psychedelics have profoundly positive effects on addiction. Definitely something I would consider if a loved one was battling addiction.

 

[TarHeelMark]

we'LL merk nebdy

What the **** is your problem? Poast something coherent or stay on the dook boards, troll.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Yeah that sounds like ALOT of alcohol to me but I don't drink that much anyway (maybe 1-2 drinks per week).

I used to work with a guy that drank pretty heavily everyday; definitely a functioning alcoholic. He'd even have a few beers at lunch but he was able to mask it by eating an orange when he was back in the office.

I don't know if you feel like your brother has reached that point or not but regardless, he's likely not going to cut back or stop until it's his decision.

 

[strummingram]

Appreciate it all. He's not "irresponsible" with his drinking like; he doesn't become belligerent toward the girls, or his fiance'. He's never driving when he drinks. But, is consumption has increased and he smokes and he's reminding me of my father. I'm trying to avoid any tension or confrontation by being the "sober, concerned older brother", but, I love the guy and hate to see it take him down. We have some SERIOUS cases of alcoholism-related deaths and illnesses in both family trees.

 

[-COUNTRY-CLUB-JOE-]

I would guess the red bulls aren’t great for him at the rate he’s going. TBH, smoking is probably more harmful to his health than anything else you listed, though.

I feel like everyone’s body handles these things differently to some extent. Just from personal experience and observation. Exercise, eating habits might help mitigate some of the risks he’s taking with his boozing and whatnot.

 

[Littlejon]

Having dealt with an uncle who was an alcoholic, I feel your pain. Honestly, it does sound like a lot for every day. One glass of wine or a mixed drink per day wouldn't, but that seems like a lot to me.

I would approach it as you did here, with concern. Concern because of the family history and your love for your brother. Just ask him if everything is OK and that you don't want to see him fall into something he can't get out of. No harm in taking a loving, brotherly approach. I would also tell him you know he isn't at that point because you see him in his environment (like with the way he isn't bad with his family) and see he is handling it well, you just don't want him to get there.

I don't know if it would help and only you know your brother and how he may react, but I will say a prayer for you and this situation. I know how difficult it is.

 

[Louigi]

I'd be just as concerned of the smoking as alcohol use/abuse. A few beers are fine, but Jeager and Red Bull is not a good combo. Somewhat of a "trailer trash" combo anyway. Jeager has always had a reputation to screw with folks more than other alcohol also. Kinda like tequila.

Alcoholism runs in my family also. Grandmother, father, sister, etc. Scotch-Irish decent, so no surprise there. Currently my younger sister does not know when to stop drinking. She crashed her car drunk and broke her back, lost her kids in divorce, etc. She still drinks. I refuse to be in same location with her if she drinks, so I don't see her much now. It is a mental illness and very tough to deal with.

 

[sctarheel30]

we'LL merk nebdy

What the **** is your problem? Poast something coherent or stay on the dook boards, troll.

I agree I don't have any idea what he means

 

[UNC71-00]

If alcohol is causing him to rearrange any priorities or to fail to take care of any responsibilities, then it is a problem. Other than that, I wouldn't worry about it.

 

[heelmanwilm]

Grew up with alcoholism and still see it every freaking day. Fam, in laws, friends, most of them functioning but a couple of em circling the drain. My retired neighbor is rationed 3 tall boy buds a day by his wife and he begs me every single day to bring him another when i go home for lunch. Thats 4 24oz beers he drinks by 5 every day. Its mind boggling. I’ve just given up on reasoning with any of them. They’re adults. They’re making their choices. They’ve all hit what i would consider rock bottom a dozen times and it means nothing. My sister permanently disabled a dude when she blacked out driving and t boned him. She went to jail for 2 years. He sued her for millions and won. Although he wont get anything due to some shrewd accounting by her also alcoholic husband. But she still drinks. She blames him. Claims he was speeding thru the light she ran while driving unconcious. How do reason with that? The Hell with them.

Oh and heres the ringer. A close friend 47 yo was diagnosed with kidney disease a few yrs ago. I knew he liked to get hammered but i had no idea the extent. Hes gonna die within a couple years without a transplant. But hes not even on a list. Why? Cause he refuses to quit drinking.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Grew up with alcoholism and still see it every freaking day. Fam, in laws, friends, most of them functioning but a couple of em circling the drain. My retired neighbor is rationed 3 tall boy buds a day by his wife and he begs me every single day to bring him another when i go home for lunch. Thats 4 24oz beers he drinks by 5 every day. .

Not to nitpick, but I always referred to the 16 oz cans as "tall boys".

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Not to nitpick, but I always referred to the 16 oz cans as "tall boys".

I think the ones he's talking about are 22 oz, not 24. Deuce deuces.

 

[strummingram]

Grew up with alcoholism and still see it every freaking day. Fam, in laws, friends, most of them functioning but a couple of em circling the drain. My retired neighbor is rationed 3 tall boy buds a day by his wife and he begs me every single day to bring him another when i go home for lunch. Thats 4 24oz beers he drinks by 5 every day. Its mind boggling. I’ve just given up on reasoning with any of them. They’re adults. They’re making their choices. They’ve all hit what i would consider rock bottom a dozen times and it means nothing. My sister permanently disabled a dude when she blacked out driving and t boned him. She went to jail for 2 years. He sued her for millions and won. Although he wont get anything due to some shrewd accounting by her also alcoholic husband. But she still drinks. She blames him. Claims he was speeding thru the light she ran while driving unconcious. How do reason with that? The Hell with them.

Oh and heres the ringer. A close friend 47 yo was diagnosed with kidney disease a few yrs ago. I knew he liked to get hammered but i had no idea the extent. Hes gonna die within a couple years without a transplant. But hes not even on a list. Why? Cause he refuses to quit drinking.

It never ceases to amaze me how peoples' addictions rule them.

They watch people wither-away from abusing their bodies and then follow right behind them.

 

[heelbent]

@strummingram

My brother died Christmas day. I haven't posted about it because it just wasn't something I felt I wanted to share...until now.

Wayne was the Mechanical Engineering Director at the Savannah River Plant in Barnwell, SC. He graduated from GT in a little over 3 years. He was no dummy. But when he died he was drunk with a blood alcohol of .28 and had enough opioids in him to kill a horse.

The only advice I can give you is this; if you are concerned enough to bring it here then please try everything you can to get your brother help. It doesn't matter if you piss him off. It doesn't matter if you piss off then entire family. What matters most is that he realizes there is a problem, and one way or the other he has to get a handle on it.

I wish I could stand in front of the mirror and tell myself that I did everything I could to help my brother...but I can't, and it tears my guts out. I blamed him for his problems instead of exhausting every possible resource available to help him. I'll have to answer for that.

 

[gunslingerdick]

I think the ones he's talking about are 22 oz, not 24. Deuce deuces.

Right. The 16 oz cans are "tall boys", the 22 oz cans are "double deuces" and the 24 oz cans don't get a nickname. Because who drinks those things anyway. The beer gets hot by the bottom of it.

But with that said, there seems to be some confusion.

I think we need to declare what a "tall boy" actually is. What say you, OOTB?

 

[gunslingerdick]

@strummingram

My brother died Christmas day. I haven't posted about it because it just wasn't something I felt I wanted to share...until now.

Wayne was the Mechanical Engineering Director at the Savannah River Plant in Barnwell, SC. He graduated from GT in a little over 3 years. He was no dummy. But when he died he was drunk with a blood alcohol of .28 and had enough opioids in him to kill a horse.

The only advice I can give you is this; if you are concerned enough to bring it here then please try everything you can to get your brother help. It doesn't matter if you piss him off. It doesn't matter if you piss off then entire family. What matters most is that he realizes there is a problem, and one way or the other he has to get a handle on it.

I wish I could stand in front of the mirror and tell myself that I did everything I could to help my brother...but I can't, and it tears my guts out. I blamed him for his problems instead of exhausting every possible resource available to help him. I'll have to answer for that.

Damn...I'm sorry to hear that @heelbent. Prayers are with you and your family during this difficult time. Your brother was a grown man that made his own decisions. You can't hold yourself responsible for the choices he made. I know that's little comfort but I hope you'll eventually realize that and be at peace. Godspeed.

 

[BillyL]

@heelbent

My sincere condolences on the loss of your brother.

 

[TarHeelMark]

@strummingram

My brother died Christmas day. I haven't posted about it because it just wasn't something I felt I wanted to share...until now.

Wayne was the Mechanical Engineering Director at the Savannah River Plant in Barnwell, SC. He graduated from GT in a little over 3 years. He was no dummy. But when he died he was drunk with a blood alcohol of .28 and had enough opioids in him to kill a horse.

The only advice I can give you is this; if you are concerned enough to bring it here then please try everything you can to get your brother help. It doesn't matter if you piss him off. It doesn't matter if you piss off then entire family. What matters most is that he realizes there is a problem, and one way or the other he has to get a handle on it.

I wish I could stand in front of the mirror and tell myself that I did everything I could to help my brother...but I can't, and it tears my guts out. I blamed him for his problems instead of exhausting every possible resource available to help him. I'll have to answer for that.

So sorry to hear this hb.

 

[strummingram]

@strummingram

My brother died Christmas day. I haven't posted about it because it just wasn't something I felt I wanted to share...until now.

Wayne was the Mechanical Engineering Director at the Savannah River Plant in Barnwell, SC. He graduated from GT in a little over 3 years. He was no dummy. But when he died he was drunk with a blood alcohol of .28 and had enough opioids in him to kill a horse.

The only advice I can give you is this; if you are concerned enough to bring it here then please try everything you can to get your brother help. It doesn't matter if you piss him off. It doesn't matter if you piss off then entire family. What matters most is that he realizes there is a problem, and one way or the other he has to get a handle on it.

I wish I could stand in front of the mirror and tell myself that I did everything I could to help my brother...but I can't, and it tears my guts out. I blamed him for his problems instead of exhausting every possible resource available to help him. I'll have to answer for that.

You mean just a week ago? Man, I am sorry to hear that! Not that time matters, but that is recent!

Thanks for the insight. Believe me, I have addressed it with him, my mom, and friends. He's trying to reassure me that he's got it under control because he can gauge it by how our father declined. But, I have tried and tried to make him aware that if you're in the grip of the addiction, you're not the one in control at all.

I remember back when his ex-wife took off and left, and he embarked on the divorce process, I had to go up there immediately and help him transition. She left because of other issues, but I feel sure that alcohol was also a role on some level. She left the kids with him so she could go back to VA and marry some guy she went to high school with. Fvcking drama, man. He has full custody and they're all actually better off for the split. Anyway, He was going to stop drinking back then, but, the weekend rolled around, and he was back at it. When he gets drunk, I can tell. He is more demonstrative and talks much more... like our father. During one of those nights, he reveals (this is almost 3 years ago) that the only way he could stop drinking is by going to some kind of rehab. So, I already know he's alcoholic. Trouble is, the new fiance', as nice as she is, and she's a good fit for him, she's also an enabler and partner in his habits that harm him (smoking and drinking). She was actually impeding me by defending him and his/their behavior. I will have a clear conscience that I did try to point-out the problem. But, I cannot force him to stop. We have a cousin who died 3 years ago at age 53 from alcoholism. Her brother (our other cousin) tried to get her to any 12 step program, and he would pay for it. She was stubborn and stayed a drunk, and died.

I appreciate all the help and contributions.

 

[tarheel0910]

Sorry to hear about your loss @heelbent.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

Sorry for your loss @heelbent.

 

[Littlejon]

So sorry to hear about your brother @heelbent. Prayers for your family.

I have to agree with GSD, though. You aren't responsible. You shouldn't beat yourself up over what you "could" have done, because even when you do everything humanly possible, unless the person is willing to help themselves, they won't respond. Hindsight being what it is, I am sure everyone could come up with more that they "could've done" to help someone, but we don't have that luxury when our loved ones are still alive and we are dealing with it at the time. You did what you could. It won't make it any easier, but don't blame yourself.

@strummingram - In my limited experience, the "enablers" often have other agendas that they don't want you interfering with. In my uncle's case, those he was involved with wanted him drunk to take advantage of him and he wasn't able to see or resist them. When he no longer had what they wanted, they left. But, while there, they made it sound like they were the ONLY one's with his best interests in mind and turned him away from anyone who came close to taking away what they wanted. If his fiancee really is a good fit for him, she will recognize the issues and help him get help. Sounds to me like she may be after something and sees him as an easy way to get it. I could be wrong and hope I am, but it sure sounds familiar.

I will continue to pray for you guys. Politics and sports aside, this is real life and it is a terrible thing to have to live through.

 

[TarHeelMark]

It never ceases to amaze me how peoples' addictions rule them..

Very true. Fortunately, my wife's and my family have not really had to deal with this. For the most part, we must not have that "addictive" trait in our respective DNA. I have the occasional drink, but never really crave alcohol, cigarettes, etc.

It sounds like you are doing the best that you can given the circumstances, but as has been stated, addicts are not going to change until they are ready to. Keep doing what you are doing, and continue being there for him.

 

[tarheelinfl]

Back story:

Okay, as some of you know, I don't drink. I drank in high school and the short time I was in college (I did too much recreational stuff). I drank to extreme excess and it cost me. So, I have been sober since 1988. My father, grandfather and so on were alcoholics.

Now, my concern is my younger brother. I visit him in person at least once a year in Minnesota. He has a high-stress job, went through a divorce about 18 months ago and nearly killed him, he has full custody of both daughters. He makes 6 figures, but it comes at a price. He has a fiance' now who lives with him and the girls.

He has always drank alcohol. He, like me, did it to excess in younger years, but he kept on after he got married. Over the years, I noticed he kept his "hard drinking" to weekend nights only. This trip, I noticed his consumption was every night. However, the consumption doesn't seem to affect his overall demeanor... he doesn't get drunk. Now, you guys that drink can help me gauge the consumption and what average consumption SHOULD do.

He drinks about 4-5 Jager-bombs (Jagermeister & Red Bull), and another 4 cans of Icehouse beer (5.5% alcohol beer). And, it has no "outward" effect on his demeanor. I assume it's to wind-down. The weekend level is even more, because on weekends he will get "drunk".

My question is; Is that a lot of daily alcohol consumption? I don't know squat about Jagermeister. But, I gotta believe all that Redbull and Jager is taking a toll on his body. He smokes, too. Do Jager-Bombs provide knockout punches for most people?

Does he have good life insurance? He's digging an early grave for himself, between the alcohol, the red bulls and the smoking!

 

[strummingram]

Does he have good life insurance? He's digging an early grave for himself, between the alcohol, the red bulls and the smoking!

He makes 6 figures. I have no idea about his life insurance. He's only 42

 

[plm]

Try attending your local alanon meeting. My spouse has addiction issues and I have been attending regularly for the last year and a half and it's done wonders for me and my ability to offer compassion and understanding and set healthy boundaries for myself.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Shameless bump.

I've recently instituted a plan in my life where I only allow myself to drink on 6 days/nights in a calendar month. Now, I'm sure some of y'all are probably thinking that's not a very strong "only," but for me it is. A little background:

Probably for the past 6 years, I've drank on ~95% of days. Now, I didn't necessarily pound drinks every single one of those days/nights, but more often than not, I'd get quiteeee a healthy buzz going before ultimately going to bed. Sometimes it was just 2 or 3 beers though, and once in a blue moon, I wouldn't have a drink (it was rare). Liquor especially gets me in trouble. One drink will become three will become five very quickly if I'm in for the night and I'm just relaxing watching a game or something.

So anyway, based on that amount of drinking, the 6 nights or less per calendar month is a big jump for me. So far I've had mixed results. I haven't caved or anything like that. I've stuck to the schedule. But I don't feel substantially better/healthier like I thought I would. I used to think I felt cloudy and sluggish in mornings because of the drinking, but I've since discovered..... nope. It's not the drinking. Mornings just blow.

The good news is I've proved to myself I don't "need" a drink. It hasn't been very difficult to abstain on days/nights I know I'm choosing to abstain. Sure, sometimes I'll strongly desire a drink at night, but the craving is controllable. I'm not a slave to it.

So we'll see how it goes. I'm hoping a byproduct of reduced drinking will be my gut will shrink a bit haha.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

I used to think I felt cloudy and sluggish in mornings because of the drinking, but I've since discovered..... nope. It's not the drinking. Mornings just blow.

Get out of my head.