Foul Prone????

[What Would Jesus Do?]

How much of being foul prone is actually committing more fouls, and how much is getting called for committing fouls?

This could be important for us next season. Especially when it comes to Isaiah. Last season he committed 6.7 fouls per 40 minutes played. Not such a big deal when he only plays 18 minutes per game. But it means he will (on average) foul out just before hitting 30 minutes.

So obviously he has to do much better. But he can't do better by playing timid. We won't win if he's timid. And besides, that isn't his style.

Next year he'll be a starter.

Next year the offense will be built more to suit his style of play and his skills, and not Brice's style of play and skills.

Both of those should help. But he's a kid who already has a 3-year reputation of being foul prone. So will he even be allowed a fighting chance by the refs? Or, by being a starter, will he be cut some slack?

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

If you are Roy, what are you working on to address Isaiah's fouling issue?

 

[DevilBlue]

I would say the main reason more fouls are being called is simply the rules are shifting towards less contact. Hand checking, charges, and other contact that wouldn't have been called 10 years ago is being cracked down on. Technically speaking now these are fouls so I guess more fouls are being committed.

I do also think there is a valid point in what you say about being foul prone and having that reputation. As an example Chase Jeter for Duke fouled...A LOT...and many times those calls later in the year weren't actually fouls, but as he had the rep. Its just a subconscious thing in refs heads that he is more likely to foul. Same was true for the idea that a guy like Greg Maddux had such control that if it was even close...benefit of the doubt. I would assume that the same is happening to Hicks. People know he fouled a lot in the past, so if its suddenly a way off shot against him or guy goes to floor then...must have been fouled.

I would think that obviously you have to back him off a little on D. Perhaps not be so aggressive. Roy has to stress he can't get those bad fouls 25 feet out trying to do too much, or if somebody gets the rebound over him, can't do the frustration try to grab it back.... Obviously as the game dictates and his foul situation dictates this is adjusted in game. Brice was able to overcome these issues(a little sooner than Hicks) so no reason Hicks can't but its one of the bigger questions for UNC next year IMO.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

Hicks is a tweener and has no go to move, he needs to work on his jumper to create space because they lag off of him and then he charges in and bulldozes the defender... he's the garbage man Meeks will have to be the go to guy and maybe Bradley and when they miss Hicks cleans up..

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Hicks is a tweener and has no go to move, he needs to work on his jumper to create space because they lag off of him and then he charges in and bulldozes the defender... he's the garbage man Meeks will have to be the go to guy and maybe Bradley and when they miss Hicks cleans up..

Some of us have been saying that Meeks should be playing more out of the high post. How would that fit with what you are saying?

 

[DSouthr]

How much of being foul prone is actually committing more fouls, and how much is getting called for committing fouls?

This could be important for us next season. Especially when it comes to Isaiah. Last season he committed 6.7 fouls per 40 minutes played. Not such a big deal when he only plays 18 minutes per game. But it means he will (on average) foul out just before hitting 30 minutes.

So obviously he has to do much better. But he can't do better by playing timid. We won't win if he's timid. And besides, that isn't his style.

Next year he'll be a starter.

Next year the offense will be built more to suit his style of play and his skills, and not Brice's style of play and skills.

Both of those should help. But he's a kid who already has a 3-year reputation of being foul prone. So will he even be allowed a fighting chance by the refs? Or, by being a starter, will he be cut some slack?

Few important things to understand about Issiah and the fouls. I think the most important is he has the approach to the game of a guy coming off the bench and not a starters approach, at least so far. A starter realizes that to stay in the game he has to at times let some things go, that guy off the bench is wired to come in and try to make something happen right now, many times resulting in him trying to do to much. The fouls I hated to see from him were the hip checks 30ft away from the basket, those are useless fouls, just stay in front using your feet, you are not going to get away with the hip check to divert the ball handler, don't get so tight up on the ball handler when he has his dribble, get tight up on him when he gives up the dribble.

Next, I like Issiah a lot more staying inside, he doesn't have the quickness with his feet to be guarding wings and 2 guards outside. But he has had the will to try and opposing coaches realize that and try to iso him with the quicker ball handler. Issiah has to realize that and his mates have to help him with that as well by trying not to allow him to be switched on to a ball handler outside. Issiah has to learn and most starters figure this out, some times it is better to let that one go than it would be to pick up the foul.

The fouls I am fine with Issiah taking are the there is a price you have to pay for coming in to my painted area so when you pick yourself up off the court you may realize it from now on. The cheap reaching fouls, the hip checks outside, he can not afford those.

I do think as a starter these things are already being drilled in to him and I think you will see him back off some situations that up to now he would push to far. It is more about game management and awareness at this point because his feet are not going to get a whole lot quicker, he needs to get a little bit smarter but I expect he will. Brice really struggled with this same thing up to last season and figured it out, I expect the same from issiah.

 

[DSouthr]

Some of us have been saying that Meeks should be playing more out of the high post. How would that fit with what you are saying?

I like Meeks in the high post because he has a very good ability to pass for a big man in that position. He spent a good bit of time in the high post as a over weight freshman and it was great for 2 reasons. First was a very good passing big man that got the ball to his target in a position the catch was easy and he could do something with it. I would have preferred Brice to have spent more time deeper in the paint and Meeks more up top last season honestly but Roy was trying to protect Brice from a few fouls (rebounding type fouls) pulling him more up top.

The other reason I like meeks up top is hey, let's face it the kid just is not able to explode up and finish thru contact and seems a bit shy to seek it out while trapped deep in the paint so pull him outside where he does not need to explode up as much.

 

[soap - new and improved]

In short, sadly, Roy needs to start getting on the refs, and hard. Isiah committed a solid number of fouls for sure, but he was also victimized all season with many, many phantom/unbelievably ticky-tack calls. Officiating is off the rails bad, and seems to be getting worse. And again, sadly, climbing down the refs throats seems to be the only daggum thing they respond to.

 

[gary-7]

How much of being foul prone is actually committing more fouls, and how much is getting called for committing fouls?

This could be important for us next season. Especially when it comes to Isaiah. Last season he committed 6.7 fouls per 40 minutes played. Not such a big deal when he only plays 18 minutes per game. But it means he will (on average) foul out just before hitting 30 minutes.

So obviously he has to do much better. But he can't do better by playing timid. We won't win if he's timid. And besides, that isn't his style.

Next year he'll be a starter.

Next year the offense will be built more to suit his style of play and his skills, and not Brice's style of play and skills.

Both of those should help. But he's a kid who already has a 3-year reputation of being foul prone. So will he even be allowed a fighting chance by the refs? Or, by being a starter, will he be cut some slack?

Sometimes it's a little of both. Some players just foul a lot --- the maddening thing is some get called for it more than others. Some just have a knack for being sneaky.

Often though the defender who gets himself off-balance will not only be prone to fouling but also prone to getting called for it because it catches the ref's eye. Sound defensive footwork cures a lot of that.

 

[gary-7]

I like Meeks in the high post because he has a very good ability to pass for a big man in that position. He spent a good bit of time in the high post as a over weight freshman and it was great for 2 reasons. First was a very good passing big man that got the ball to his target in a position the catch was easy and he could do something with it. I would have preferred Brice to have spent more time deeper in the paint and Meeks more up top last season honestly but Roy was trying to protect Brice from a few fouls (rebounding type fouls) pulling him more up top.

The other reason I like meeks up top is hey, let's face it the kid just is not able to explode up and finish thru contact and seems a bit shy to seek it out while trapped deep in the paint so pull him outside where he does not need to explode up as much.

And it would clear the way for Hicks to go to work down low.

 

[Heelicious]

Hicks is a tweener and has no go to move, he needs to work on his jumper to create space because they lag off of him and then he charges in and bulldozes the defender... he's the garbage man Meeks will have to be the go to guy and maybe Bradley and when they miss Hicks cleans up..

I just didn't see it that way in the entire recent season. Roy said the same that Hicks consistently gave all they asked for offensively thru the season. The defense and fouls were the challenges. If we are counting on Meeks being the low post go to scorer with toughness to elevate and finish strong, and hicks to be the garbage guy then we are 100% screwed from the tipoff. Even this year Hicks was head and shoulders above Meeks in every athletic way imaginable especially of a defender was anywhere in the neighborhood. I think calling hicks a garbage guy on offense is unfair. Is he the second coming of Durant or Akeem Alojwan or antawn Jamison? No. But he showed he's a legit go to guy if he can keep the fouls down which is the topic of this thread.

 

[DSouthr]

And it would clear the way for Hicks to go to work down low.

eGG-Zackly! LOL

Hicks is to me more of a strong inside guy in the way he plays more than Meeks IMO. Thou Hicks came in with a rep as a solid mid range guy and tried to do that as a frosh, not sure that is really the strength of his game, it will have to strengthen if he gets to the NBA. He is the guy to me to profit off of back side help leaving him and letting him crash toward the rim for a ooops pass or tip back rebound dunk. I think he is physically stronger than Brice was and automatically makes him more of a deep in the paint candidate than Brice was.

I actually think Hicks elevates off the floor better than he seems to be credited for, he does not have Brice like length but IMO is is closer than he gets credited for. Many may not agree with this but IMO, I watched closely last season and when Hicks was in there and not in foul trouble, I did not see much if any drop off in team play when Brice was on the bench and at times it was actually smoother. Hicks had a dramatic elevation in his free throw shooting last season, he became rock steady at the line, both he and Brice were solid there. I honestly feel that the bigger question for next season is not can we replace Brice as much as it is can we replace Hicks off the bench as Hicks starts. If Tony can do that and I suspect he can then this team has a real chance of being even better than they were last season and we were pretty darn good last season.

I say that because of what I just said about Hicks and in that I fully believe we may have trouble replacing Marcus but Marcus as a senior in a season long shooting slump I do feel VERY strongly we can increase the scoring from the position and I don't think there will be a drop off at all defending from that position.

 

[gary-7]

eGG-Zackly! LOL

Hicks is to me more of a strong inside guy in the way he plays more than Meeks IMO. Thou Hicks came in with a rep as a solid mid range guy and tried to do that as a frosh, not sure that is really the strength of his game, it will have to strengthen if he gets to the NBA. He is the guy to me to profit off of back side help leaving him and letting him crash toward the rim for a ooops pass or tip back rebound dunk. I think he is physically stronger than Brice was and automatically makes him more of a deep in the paint candidate than Brice was.

I actually think Hicks elevates off the floor better than he seems to be credited for, he does not have Brice like length but IMO is is closer than he gets credited for. Many may not agree with this but IMO, I watched closely last season and when Hicks was in there and not in foul trouble, I did not see much if any drop off in team play when Brice was on the bench and at times it was actually smoother. Hicks had a dramatic elevation in his free throw shooting last season, he became rock steady at the line, both he and Brice were solid there. I honestly feel that the bigger question for next season is not can we replace Brice as much as it is can we replace Hicks off the bench as Hicks starts. If Tony can do that and I suspect he can then this team has a real chance of being even better than they were last season and we were pretty darn good last season.

I say that because of what I just said about Hicks and in that I fully believe we may have trouble replacing Marcus but Marcus as a senior in a season long shooting slump I do feel VERY strongly we can increase the scoring from the position and I don't think there will be a drop off at all defending from that position.

Yep. Hicks is an explosive athlete. His teammates considered him our best dunker last season. He can get to the hole from face-up or back-in. Unbridled with room to operate bodes well for a big Sr season. Just stay on the floor, young fella.

 

[Archer2]

I think Hicks' problem is the same one most foul prone guys have, playing defense too much with their hands/arms and not enough with their feet(a problem Grayson Allen doesn't have).

Not moving his feet enough means getting beat by his man and him reaching in to compensate. He picked up way too many cheap reach in fouls 15-18 feet from the basket. He needs to move his feet and maintain a lower defensive posture. And by all means, when he does get beat, he needs to resist the temptation to reach for the steal and let his man go.

Not being at all sure what we can expect from Kennedy, we really need 30 MPG from Isaiah next year.

 

[Bur-Heel]

I just didn't see it that way in the entire recent season. Roy said the same that Hicks consistently gave all they asked for offensively thru the season. The defense and fouls were the challenges. If we are counting on Meeks being the low post go to scorer with toughness to elevate and finish strong, and hicks to be the garbage guy then we are 100% screwed from the tipoff. Even this year Hicks was head and shoulders above Meeks in every athletic way imaginable especially of a defender was anywhere in the neighborhood. I think calling hicks a garbage guy on offense is unfair. Is he the second coming of Durant or Akeem Alojwan or antawn Jamison? No. But he showed he's a legit go to guy if he can keep the fouls down which is the topic of this thread.

Agreed upon 100%!!

 

[DSouthr]

I just didn't see it that way in the entire recent season. Roy said the same that Hicks consistently gave all they asked for offensively thru the season. The defense and fouls were the challenges. If we are counting on Meeks being the low post go to scorer with toughness to elevate and finish strong, and hicks to be the garbage guy then we are 100% screwed from the tipoff. Even this year Hicks was head and shoulders above Meeks in every athletic way imaginable especially of a defender was anywhere in the neighborhood. I think calling hicks a garbage guy on offense is unfair. Is he the second coming of Durant or Akeem Alojwan or antawn Jamison? No. But he showed he's a legit go to guy if he can keep the fouls down which is the topic of this thread.

No, Hicks is not a garbage guy and can and at times last season was, a go to scorer. The main difference I see in Hicks and what we got from Brice last season is Brice did some really good work with his mid range jump shooting. You know, they pack in that zone on us and Brice steps to the middle of that zone just under the foul line and nails the mid range jumper or dished it off to the cutting big. We ran that on zones over and over and then some and Brice made em pay, really all the way up to the title game itself, he had the ops there to but didn't hit them like he had.

That mid range game, not sure I have seen that consistently from Hicks BUT we didn't see a ton of it from Brice till last season either. If you recall, up to last season Brice was more of a jump hook guy, liked to get his man a little away from the basket and use that jump hook from either side, didn't show the mid range nearly as much as he did as a senior. Brice was really long any way but he elevated nice on his mid range jumpers and very few could alter his shot, not sure Hicks can get away with that but Hicks is stronger and can establish and hold his inside position IMO maybe better than Brice could.

 

[CanuckChuck]

Not being at all sure what we can expect from Kennedy, we really need 30 MPG from Isaiah next year.

WIth Meeks you 100% know what you are getting as you have gotten it for 3 straight years.

30 will not happen but we should be happy if he can go mid twenties and still be as productive as this year.

CC

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

WIth Meeks you 100% know what you are getting as you have gotten it for 3 straight years.

30 will not happen but we should be happy if he can go mid twenties and still be as productive as this year.

CC

It's the midseason wall and lack of energy he has to get through. Each of the last 2 years he's started well, then had some odd malady in January or Feb, and never seemed able to get back on track.

If he wants to play at the next level, he has to start well and stay strong for the whole season. I don't know if it's a health thing or a mental thing. Either way, he needs to beat it.

 

[Archer2]

WIth Meeks you 100% know what you are getting as you have gotten it for 3 straight years.

30 will not happen but we should be happy if he can go mid twenties and still be as productive as this year.

CC

I agree to the extent that I'm not expecting a big jump in production from Kennedy. Nothing that he's shown so far has indicated that he's capable of consistently producing much more. I'm resigned to him having a season similar to last year. I would love to be surprised.

With Marcus and Brice gone, he'll have an opportunity to step up. We shall see if he seizes it and does so or if the past is truly indicative of what he's capable of.