FSU AD speaking out loud

[WoadBlue]

about growing revenue disparities

"At issue: The ACC will fall behind both the SEC and Big Ten in revenue by about $30 million per year when their respective new television contracts kick in (Big Ten in 2023, SEC in 2024).

"Something has to change because we cannot compete nationally being $30 million behind every year," Alford said. "It's not one year. We're talking about $30 million compounded year after year."

30 million times 10 years is each ACC school being behind each SEC school a total of 300 million dollars.

Yes, football is MUCH bigger than basketball. Football value is not based on any team's wins, but on proven football fan base size. That means primarily proven TV numbers, but also includes proven hire attendance figures and proven ticket sales for bowl games.

When the ACC finally decided to get serious about football in going to 12, the idiots in charge really thought that adding Syracuse and BC made sense. They were idiots because their entire way of seeing CFB was to mix what they knew about ACC basketball greatness with what they saw in the NFL, and so they assume that having team located in a large city, or state, would mean big wealth even though that team had no fans.


Wake never hurt the wealth and prestige of ACC basketball, so how could BC hurt the wealth and prestige of ACC football, asked the ACC basketball mind. Even Green Bay gets huge TV money, said the NFL fan mind.

Unless ESPN wants to drastically redo the ACC deal, soon, in order to save the league for ESPN, then not just FSU and Clemson but everybody with any shot at getting into either SEC or BT should be furiously maneuvering to do so ASAP.

And ESPN would be insane to think it could ever gain by significantly increasing its payouts to an ACC that intends to keep propping up Wake and BC. They have no fans. They never will have fans, not at a level larger than what we se with better 1AA/FCS programs.

 

[kevindow]

Great analysis !

I am clearly not an expert, but I have always wanted UNC to join the SEC as that league would love to have our total sports offerings, but especially men's basketball, but we also have other competitive men's and women's sports. The SEC would have to tolerate UNC football as a laggard. But the SEC will soon have 16 schools in the league once OU and Texas join in 2025.

The Big 10, will expand to a whopping 16 schools when USC and UCLA join in 2024. We would also be attractive to the B10, but it looks like these two schools locked up the last two slots. I really don't see either the SEC or B10 expanding beyond 16 schools.

Our big weakness is our men's football. If we had spent some money by hiring a ultra-competitive coaching staff, maybe we could have paired with Clemson and joined the SEC or B10. With more money, these two conferences will become even more formidable, being able to offer eye-popping salaries to coaches, which will attract more NIL money and get the best players. How do you think Clemson feels being stuck in a low paying conference like the ACC ?

 

[tarheel0910]

Great analysis !

I am clearly not an expert, but I have always wanted UNC to join the SEC as that league would love to have our total sports offerings, but especially men's basketball, but we also have other competitive men's and women's sports. The SEC would have to tolerate UNC football as a laggard. But the SEC will soon have 16 schools in the league once OU and Texas join in 2025.

The Big 10, will expand to a whopping 16 schools when USC and UCLA join in 2024. We would also be attractive to the B10, but it looks like these two schools locked up the last two slots. I really don't see either the SEC or B10 expanding beyond 16 schools.

Our big weakness is our men's football. If we had spent some money by hiring a ultra-competitive coaching staff, maybe we could have paired with Clemson and joined the SEC or B10. With more money, these two conferences will become even more formidable, being able to offer eye-popping salaries to coaches, which will attract more NIL money and get the best players. How do you think Clemson feels being stuck in a low paying conference like the ACC ?

We'll be in the Big because of the other sports. They already have those sports, so it's a more natural fit. It's also a better fit off the field as well. And neither conference will stop at 16 as long as there is revenue to be added. That means if UNC, Clemson, etc become available, then they will get an invite. Brand recognition is what they will both be after.

 

[Xlance]

The ACC didn't choose Miami, Syracuse and BC as potential members when the ACC decided to go to 12....that was ESPN (or more specifically the consultants that ESPN provided to assist the conference).
Woad the only way Florida State or any other school leaves is to buy their way out or take the conference to court.
If FSU could leave by paying the $120 Million in exit fees (current) and say between $400-$500 Million to buy their way out of the GOR contract is that sound business? FSU may be able to collect $30 Million a year more from the SEC for the next 10 years ($300 Million) at a cost of approx $600 Million.
What kind of math do they teach in Florida?

 

[WoadBlue]

The ACC didn't choose Miami, Syracuse and BC as potential members when the ACC decided to go to 12....that was ESPN (or more specifically the consultants that ESPN provided to assist the conference).
Woad the only way Florida State or any other school leaves is to buy their way out or take the conference to court.
If FSU could leave by paying the $120 Million in exit fees (current) and say between $400-$500 Million to buy their way out of the GOR contract is that sound business? FSU may be able to collect $30 Million a year more from the SEC for the next 10 years ($300 Million) at a cost of approx $600 Million.
What kind of math do they teach in Florida?

GOR payments to leave go down as the contract gets closer to its end. That's is why 5 years from now somebody may find that the math works to leave the ACC. Until then, you talk behind the scenes and try to secure the future.

UNC may still be stupid enough to go down with Wake and BC and the ACC ship. So I really hope that there is some way that the ACC and ND can work something with ESPN to keep the ACC fully viable. We don't need to be fully equal to SEC money, but we need to be a lot closer to it than 30 million less per team per year.

 

[WoadBlue]

Andrea Adelson and David Hale article

I say that nothing can be done unless you start by facing the fact that no network wants to pay big money for a league to keep giving you the likes of Wake and BC They are permanent drains. Dook adds league value because of basketball, and so does Syracuse. But Wake and BC are just drains.

Unless you already are rich, you got to put skin in the game to get floated for more money. ESPN business analysts are saying to themselves: we will have to up the next SEC deal even more, and that will come before 2036. So why should be do anything to help the ACC now when the ACC does nothing to help us? WE don not need Wake and BC games that are supposed to be Big Time CFB. And when is UNC finally going to stop pussyfooting and realize its football potential?

 

[tarheel0910]

Andrea Adelson and David Hale article

I say that nothing can be done unless you start by facing the fact that no network wants to pay big money for a league to keep giving you the likes of Wake and BC They are permanent drains. Dook adds league value because of basketball, and so does Syracuse. But Wake and BC are just drains.

Unless you already are rich, you got to put skin in the game to get floated for more money. ESPN business analysts are saying to themselves: we will have to up the next SEC deal even more, and that will come before 2036. So why should be do anything to help the ACC now when the ACC does nothing to help us? WE don not need Wake and BC games that are supposed to be Big Time CFB. And when is UNC finally going to stop pussyfooting and realize its football potential?

ESPN will have to do a little something just so they can have some goodwill. Nothing huge and not necessarily money, but something to entice us to choose the SEC over the Big. Their worst nightmare would be to lose our brand to Fox. Even though our football is mediocre, UNC is still a national brand.

 

[WoadBlue]

ESPN will have to do a little something just so they can have some goodwill. Nothing huge and not necessarily money, but something to entice us to choose the SEC over the Big. Their worst nightmare would be to lose our brand to Fox. Even though our football is mediocre, UNC is still a national brand.

Even more than that is what the BT needs, rather desperately. And that is an ability to create football depth to equal the SEC. That can happen only 1 way: the BT expands in BIG way and adds multiple schools in the South including in major recruiting states like FL and GA. The BT could do that by adding UVA, VT, UNC, Dook, Moo, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami. Adding Louisville would be a huge swipe at UK and SEC basketball.

The ACC needs to be able to play ESPN off a possible BT future for most of us. So the ACC needs to probe the BT to see if it and its now many media partners (Fox, CBS, and NBC) will be ready to pony up to become a truly national conference.

And the ACC brass must accept that in any conference realignment, nobody is ever going to take Wake or BC.

 

[tarheel0910]

Even more than that is what the BT needs, rather desperately. And that is an ability to create football depth to equal the SEC. That can happen only 1 way: the BT expands in BIG way and adds multiple schools in the South including in major recruiting states like FL and GA. The BT could do that by adding UVA, VT, UNC, Dook, Moo, Clemson, GT, FSU, and Miami. Adding Louisville would be a huge swipe at UK and SEC basketball.

The ACC needs to be able to play ESPN off a possible BT future for most of us. So the ACC needs to probe the BT to see if it and its now many media partners (Fox, CBS, and NBC) will be ready to pony up to become a truly national conference.

And the ACC brass must accept that in any conference realignment, nobody is ever going to take Wake or BC.

VT and moo would be redundant, so I doubt they would get an invite. I think Clemson and FSU would prefer the SEC. My guess would be the Big would take UNC, duke, UVA and GT if they are going to 20. Maybe Miami in place of GT.

ACC definitely needs to leverage that, but there is only so much that can get you. If there really are a lot of teams that are unhappy, then all you would need is half of the conference to agree to dissolve it. Don't have any issues with grant of rights if that happens and the left over schools lose out. The smart play long term would be to let all those teams leave with a huge negotiated fee. The conference would have a ton of extra cash plus a much bigger payout per team for the ones that are left. You could also negotiate some type of scheduling agreement so there would still be decent match ups for the conference.

 

[CrazyHeel]

Seems as though, we're all thinking alike. Either threaten DSPN to dissolve and the big brands go to the BIG, and force a better monetary contract. We all see the sinking ACC, and know what's on the horizon. FSU and Clemson are definitely gonna leave as soon as it is feasible any way. If UNC, UVA, GT, PITT, and ND could get back door deals to the BIG things could happen fast. I'm not sure, other than Dook, which school is AAU accredited. But that's about half, with 100's of millions of dollars on the table. Not counting the research grants the BIG schools get that dwarf football money.

 

[WoadBlue]

Seems as though, we're all thinking alike. Either threaten DSPN to dissolve and the big brands go to the BIG, and force a better monetary contract. We all see the sinking ACC, and know what's on the horizon. FSU and Clemson are definitely gonna leave as soon as it is feasible any way. If UNC, UVA, GT, PITT, and ND could get back door deals to the BIG things could happen fast. I'm not sure, other than Dook, which school is AAU accredited. But that's about half, with 100's of millions of dollars on the table. Not counting the research grants the BIG schools get that dwarf football money.

There is a group of SEC fans across the internet who have been claiming for years that ESPN decided a few years back that conference realignment,ewnt eventually would mean there are only 2 MAJOR conferences: SEC and BT. And that ESPN, knowing it most likely would lose all BT games, wanted to make certain that the parts of the ACC it wants would be in a super-sized SEC.

If that is how ESPN intends to play this, then ESPN will want to get the ACC ,embers to keep waiting, and then never deliver, which achieves the goal as soon as FSU and Clemson bolt.

The way to stop that dead in its tracks is to make certain that ESPN knows that UNV, etc. are more than willing to talk seriously to the BT.

The BT does not have to ever have better football than the SEC to top SEC money, due to the size of BT schools and the power and wealth of the schools and their alums. So the BT is able to pull off what the SEC is not: a truly Nationwide conference that has 3 networks (Fox, CBS, NBC) plus perhaps Amazon and/or Apple showing and paying for its games.

If the BT plays it smartly, and ESPN and the SEC play it to screw the ACC and assume that will benefit them, then the BT could make off with virtually all the best goodies.

I prefer that the ACC survive as a Major conference, but if ESPN does not care about that happening, then I prefer to dump on ESPN and its beloved SEC than to be forced to do what ESPN wants.

 

[tarheel0910]

Clemson Football: Could ACC schools pull a Mountain West?

Could Clemson Football and other schools break away from the ACC to form a new conference? All ideas are open for schools dissatisfied with the status quo.

rubbingtherock.com

 

[WoadBlue]

Clemson Football: Could ACC schools pull a Mountain West?

Could Clemson Football and other schools break away from the ACC to form a new conference? All ideas are open for schools dissatisfied with the status quo.

rubbingtherock.com

The good thing about this idea being floated around Clemson circles is that it mens they see that the best thing for the most valuable members of the ACC may still be rot remain together faterbthy cut the dead weight. That is the same thing I have been saying all along. The ACC was formed by the most valuable schools in the SoCon knowing they needed to get away from the last valuable schools inn the SoCon. Their great mistake was taking Wake.

Having half the ACC in NC always caused problems, from Day 1. And Wake was always the 2nd smallest team in Major conference until the SWC died,, taking Rice away from a Major Conference.

If ESPN is not willing too pay for BC, to have Major conference member in New England, then the ACC needs to release BC. I do think we need to replace that pair with WVU and Cincy. WVU has a larger Home game fan base than all ACC schools except Clemson, FSU, and VT, and the BackYard Brawl is always fun. WVU also has a large basketball crowd that is equally passionate, and fierce rivalry with VT. Cincy is in large state, football-obsessed OH and is a huge state university. Cincy has amazing growth potential, and is already Louisvillle's most played rival in both revenue sports.

Syracuse is dead weight for football, but is its basketball value worth keeping it? That depends on ESPN. Pitt football becomes more valuable if it is playing a league game vs. WVU each year. Also, that Pittsburgh is just 30 miles from the OH border means that Pitt-Cincy as an annual game has good growth potential.

There is still talk of some kind of TV deal involving the Pac. If the AC bans playing Away games at G-5 schools, that makes it easier for many of us to add Pac teams. And if the ACC plays enough such game sin the revenue ports that should expand the ACCN out West. That's not huge money, but is something.

 

[tarheel0910]

The good thing about this idea being floated around Clemson circles is that it mens they see that the best thing for the most valuable members of the ACC may still be rot remain together faterbthy cut the dead weight. That is the same thing I have been saying all along. The ACC was formed by the most valuable schools in the SoCon knowing they needed to get away from the last valuable schools inn the SoCon. Their great mistake was taking Wake.

Having half the ACC in NC always caused problems, from Day 1. And Wake was always the 2nd smallest team in Major conference until the SWC died,, taking Rice away from a Major Conference.

If ESPN is not willing too pay for BC, to have Major conference member in New England, then the ACC needs to release BC. I do think we need to replace that pair with WVU and Cincy. WVU has a larger Home game fan base than all ACC schools except Clemson, FSU, and VT, and the BackYard Brawl is always fun. WVU also has a large basketball crowd that is equally passionate, and fierce rivalry with VT. Cincy is in large state, football-obsessed OH and is a huge state university. Cincy has amazing growth potential, and is already Louisvillle's most played rival in both revenue sports.

Syracuse is dead weight for football, but is its basketball value worth keeping it? That depends on ESPN. Pitt football becomes more valuable if it is playing a league game vs. WVU each year. Also, that Pittsburgh is just 30 miles from the OH border means that Pitt-Cincy as an annual game has good growth potential.

There is still talk of some kind of TV deal involving the Pac. If the AC bans playing Away games at G-5 schools, that makes it easier for many of us to add Pac teams. And if the ACC plays enough such game sin the revenue ports that should expand the ACCN out West. That's not huge money, but is something.

Interesting that we were mentioned as one of the schools that wasn't happy.

 

[WoadBlue]

Interesting that we were mentioned as one of the schools that wasn't happy.

Indeed.

 

[tarheel0910]

UNC's Cunningham joins call for unequal revenue distribution among ACC schools :: WRALSportsFan.com

North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham told 99.9 The Fan's "The OG" that unequal revenue distribution among the ACC's member schools is becoming "critical."

www.wralsportsfan.com

 

[WoadBlue]

UNC's Cunningham joins call for unequal revenue distribution among ACC schools :: WRALSportsFan.com

North Carolina athletic director Bubba Cunningham told 99.9 The Fan's "The OG" that unequal revenue distribution among the ACC's member schools is becoming "critical."

www.wralsportsfan.com

The problem is that the league cannot take away from Wake and BC enough to make it feasible for more than a couple of years.
And any change in revenue sharing based on winning will fail. Wake can win now, and Wake always will be a drag on the league because it can never have fans in any number.

 

[tarheel0910]

The problem is that the league cannot take away from Wake and BC enough to make it feasible for more than a couple of years.
And any change in revenue sharing based on winning will fail. Wake can win now, and Wake always will be a drag on the league because it can never have fans in any number.

Agreed, I'm just happy to know that UNC isn't just going to sit back and relax. I was worried we wouldn't do anything because of some loyalty to the ACC. I want the ACC to thrive and stay together, but if UNC can do better then I want them to go somewhere else. In hindsight, it would have been better for us to have accepted the Big's invitation. Would have been better for us and certainly would have been better for them. Maryland has provided nothing.

 

[Xlance]

GOR payments to leave go down as the contract gets closer to its end. That's is why 5 years from now somebody may find that the math works to leave the ACC. Until then, you talk behind the scenes and try to secure the future.

UNC may still be stupid enough to go down with Wake and BC and the ACC ship. So I really hope that there is some way that the ACC and ND can work something with ESPN to keep the ACC fully viable. We don't need to be fully equal to SEC money, but we need to be a lot closer to it than 30 million less per team per year.

Even in 5 years the GOR monies will be too great (8 years remaining on the current contract).

If FSU is willing to come up with a boat load of cash....let 'em go.
Their problem is that it will cost them more to leave than they can make in the SEC.

At some point Notre Dame will have to make a decision about their future and it will impact every school in the ACC.

 

[tarheel0910]

Once the money gap gets to $70+ million after the next round of contracts, I predict you'll see several ACC teams come together and challenge the GoR in court.