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Got beat inside , got beat outside... just got Beat

keysersosay#1

keysersosay#1

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Apr 7, 2006
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No sugar coating this one... outcoached, outplayed, Berry was off, missed layups ...Bench play was poor, missed Fts, poor inside play. JJ was the only bright spot IMO ...he will be gone after this year if he continues to pay like he did tonight.

This team will be a factor come march...all the talk about the best team NOW means nothing. We have loads of work to do... freshmen need to get more PT and more confidence and perhaps K Williams will start to make some shots.

This team needed a good ass whooping IMO and they got it...maybe they will stop reading their press clippings and play Carolina basketball
 
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Our depth is a concern for me, woods, Robinson and even Maye just aren't ready for big time competition
 
I didnt really understand Luke Maye getting so much run especially coming off an injury. Also Britt starting when Williams has been playing so well was weird as well in such a big game. Had plenty of chances to cut the lead to 4-6 much earlier which woulda changed the whole game. even with all that if we make our ft who knows what happens. But IU deserved the win.
 
Jackson was good. Meeks was ok but still forces it too much. The rest of the starting five were bad. Bradley and Williams were ok off the bench, though Williams should have started. Just a pretty crappy performance in a really tough place to play. Don't mind losing but pretty disappointed with the performance. Being on the road shouldn't impact FTs and layups and effort, which was poor in the first half.
 
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I posted on another thread, but I"ll repeat it


This loss is at least 90% on RW.
Watches team get down, on the road, by 17 in the 1st half and
sits on his TOs like they're gold!
Didn't even call the "use it or lose it" 1st half TO!

Some things never change, I guess I just have to accept the fact that RW
can/will not call a TO in the 1st half!!
 
HEELS1984 said:
Our depth is a concern for me, woods, Robinson and even Maye just aren't ready for big time competition
Click to expand...

I actually would have preferred to see more Woods this game. He certainly wasn't scared to compete, which was kind of needed.
 
tarheelinfl said:
I posted on another thread, but I"ll repeat it


This loss is at least 90% on RW.
Watches team get down, on the road, by 17 in the 1st half and
sits on his TOs like they're gold!
Didn't even call the "use it or lose it" 1st half TO!

Some things never change, I guess I just have to accept the fact that RW
can/will not call a TO in the 1st half!!
Click to expand...

Eh, stats show TOs don't really stop runs. The lineups were a bigger issue but Roy likes that stuff, lol. Probably pays off in the long run but kind of sucks in the moment.
 
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Luke Maye has not improved at all. I don't know how he could play so many minutes after being out for several games. The big deficit in the first half was too much too overcome. Win the next 3 at home and go to Vegas and beat Kentucky.
 
We laid an egg. Just not our night on damn near all fronts. In saying that, at what point does Roy realize that the odds are slim to none in recovering from a 17 point deficit even in the first half against even a decent at their place, let alone Indiana. He's got to do better.

I do have concerns about our "real" depth. Luke Maye isn't going to cut it. Outside of Bradley, the other freshman look like freshman and all the ups and downs that comes with that. We can't have Berry play poorly. Our margin for error starting with him is very slim.
 
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coryfly said:
Eh, stats show TOs don't really stop runs. The lineups were a bigger issue but Roy likes that stuff, lol. Probably pays off in the long run but kind of sucks in the moment.
Click to expand...

I've never seen those stats, could you show your source?

I've seen Phil Jackson, Popovich and every other NBA coach call them, when their team is getting their hats handed to them, should tell them not to bother! :D:D:D
 
I do agree some of our sub patterns were stupid. That's been very typical of ol Roy especially early in the season. I thought we missed a chance in particular to bring Berry back in on that last possession of the first half. If we get a bucket there, we take momentum into the locker room with what was once a huge lead cut in half.
 
Jackson was money tonight and Berry got 2 early fouls. The Heels win this game if this game was played at a neutral sight. No one expected the Heels to win them all and losing to team the caliber of Indiana is not a crisis.
 
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tarheelinfl said:
I've never seen those stats, could you show your source?

I've seen Phil Jackson, Popovich and every other NBA coach call them, when their team is getting their hats handed to them, should tell them not to bother! :D:D:D
Click to expand...

That's cool. A lot of people don't agree. Someone posted it on IC last year. I have no interest in looking it up though. I actually tend to want Roy to call TOs at times as well. I bet IU wanted Crean to when we cut the lead down. Instead, he called a play and let his guys go. They did pretty well. I think in this one there was no need for it. Other times, I would argue otherwise. Right or wrong, Roy ain't changing though, lol.
 
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Butterbutt44 said:
Like I said in the game thread, really missed Theo in this game. Wouldve totally changed the matchups and I think Blackmon wouldve been nuetralized.
Click to expand...

Theo would have made a big difference in this game. No doubt there.
 
Can't put the blame on anyone except ourselves. I hope it'll motivate them to follow it up with a strong performance their next game. We need to have the right mentality going into Kentucky.
 
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You guys need to chill berry got 2 early fouls which pulled him out of rythem there is your difference. Everyone had an off night this was ours we got iu on a night when the 81 championship team was honor d a game after the team they should not have lost to. I expected to lose I actually expected a13-15 point loss chill out we are fine
 
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Roys presser was great You could tell he was PISSED....he ripped himself and the players... In a mild way of course but he even mentioned the part about reading their own press clippings. This was just a poor poor effort from everyone.

I believe they will learn a LOT from this egg they laid tonight.
 
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Thx
I thought we were dead meat after watching you destroy Wisconsin.
Good luck. We may meet again.
 
Yeah, IU deserved it. They made shots. UNC didn't. Good teams get good shots. It comes down to who makes them. Hell, we couldn't even make FTs. Assembly Hall got them pretty good.
 
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keysersosay#1 said:
Roys presser was great You could tell he was PISSED....he ripped himself and the players... In a mild way of course but he even mentioned the part about reading their own press clippings. This was just a poor poor effort from everyone.

I believe they will learn a LOT from this egg they laid tonight.
Click to expand...
I think its especially rippable that seniors like Hicks and Meeks didn't get more shots up early..... I think Hicks had 2 FTs and 3 fouls with about 12 minutes left in the game, 0-0 shooting FGs. Brice got blasted through his career if he disappeared for games or even halves. Same standard should hold for Hicks. He has to have the skills and "want to" to post up and get the ball and finish strong. IF he just goes away for entire games or even halves, we are so screwed.

A lot of people sucked tonight, but if people are alleged leaders, like seniors Meeks and Hicks and Britt are....they need to sack up and take the game to the opponent.... not play soft, not "take what the opponent gives you" not wait around for the perimeter underclassmen to carry you.

I said somewhere else...... maybe Meeks is healthy. Maybe he's a bit better from effort and attitude than last year. I don't like saying this but I still bet he will continue to disappoint. He still gets pwned so bad and hard on both ends by people same size or smaller. If we need to count on him as a vital part to our ship run..... lets give it up right now.... we are screwed.

someone on this board compared Meeks to Sean May just last week. Give me a freakin' break. How could you insult May any worse. May as a junior vs. Meeks as a senior would embarrass Meeks so bad he couldn't ever show his face in Chapel Hill again.
 
Steat said:
Why does Roy keep alternating Williams and Britt in the starting line-up? Williams needs to start, period.
Click to expand...
There was one session in the first half where Britt threw the ball 10 feet over Berry's head, for a TO, and darned if Britt didn't throw it away again next time down. Then he drives the ball to the hoop and looks so tight shooting it you'd swear he never played D1 ball before.

I don't get why KW doesn't play more. Maybe its just experiment time for Roy. KW is a way better defender, more athletic, more confidence, can rebound. I really think Britt would be better in spot play off the bench.... maybe subbing for Berry..... 8-10 minutes max against legit opponents.
 
Problem off the bench is we have no one that can score from the perimeter. Even with Pinson back, that's not going to change a ton unless Kenny is better offensively than I think he is. Our top 6 (7 once Theo comes back) can go toe-to-toe with anyone in the country... But after that, it's a substantial drop off.

Who knows, maybe Roy strictly limits to 8 guys with: Britt, Williams and Bradley getting all the bench minutes.

The problem is all our bigs are foul prone. Meeks, Hicks and Bradley all average over 4 fouls/40 minutes. So that means Maye will need to eat minutes all season.
 
This isn't the early season bad loss that we've had over the past few years. This was just a legit loss to a good team on their floor. And when Pinson comes back hopefully that takes away some of the minutes Maye has to play right now. That's not a dig at him, Im just not sure he belongs in there as much as he has been. We will be fine.
 
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I'm not as disappointed as some of you are....Did we lay an egg?....Yeah, we did, but take things into context: We just got through playing a tough Holiday tournament in Hawaii with everyone including Jay Bilas proclaiming that the Tar Heels are the best team in the country, so I think we came into this game a little overconfident after smashing the Hoosiers last year in the NCAA tourney....Indiana on the other hand came out with fire in their eyes, and they and their fans wanted redemption, and they got it....We got out hustled, out coached, out executed, and missed a ton of free throws which we hadn't done to this point....It was a real lesson for our youngsters, and a wake up call for the upper classmen...Bottom line: we were a step slow all night long on both ends of the floor which sometimes is to be expected after a successful trip to Hawaii with Thanksgiving afterward...

Never expected this team to go undefeated to begin with, but expect them to play hard every night which they didn't last night in comparison to Indiana who had something to prove to themselves and their fans....

Hats off to the Hoosiers on a great effort and win!

Time to get refocused for the remaining non-conference schedule!

Go Tar Heels!
 
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We can't forget as bad as we was IU played the best game they have last night, and was only 9 better than us in their gym we will be fine!
 
The environment was too much for the Heels last night. The freshman were overwhelmed, Kenny is basically a freshman for this type of environment as well (which is why Britt started I believe), and Isiah has seemed to have lost his quick moves to the hope that he had coming off the bench. We got down early as they fed off the crowd and we struggled by not trusting the offense and each other. Like some others, I'm not as bothered by this loss. Indiana played really well.
 
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If I'm Roy, I would have never let IU get up 17 without using at least a couple of TO's. I would have also started KW. But I'm not Roy and I've resigned myself to the fact that he likes to let his players "play through" bad stretches. And while I don't agree, there is no use complaining about it or expecting Roy to change his philosophy. It is a well ingrained philosophy that he adopted from Dean(one of the very few things about Dean that drove me to distraction).

IU wanted the game more, played harder and with more poise. They deserved to win. Period. We are going to lose several more games as the season progresses. It's all part of the team's maturation process.
 
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A couple things for me IMO:
1. A road loss in early November to a top 25 team, not the worst, especially if you can learn from it
2. Luke maye should not be getting that many minutes, you can tell he has the heart but no where near the athleticism to play against big time opponents. You want to play him against a davidson or LBSU thats one thing but when he is going against big time players he just cant hang
3. That crowd was insane, I like how RW and brice johnson all were calling out the UNC fans for it and they are 100 percent right, something needs to be done. Obviously nothing will change for this season but the more press it gets maybe something will
4. As good as hicks can look is as bad as he can look some nights, you just wonder, how can a senior with that much ability and atheltisicm just dissapear like that
5. Berry had an off night, not much you can do about that.
6. Freshman will be freshman they will have their up and downs, that was prolly the most intense crowd they have ever played in front of
7. For the life of me, I cant figure out why RW wont call a time out, you could tell we were so close to getting run out of the building the first 10 minutes. I dont care if we have 12 seniors, call a danm timeout, letting them play through it clearly never works...Maybe its roys stubborness, idk what it is..but there is no dobht about it, RW is not a good X and Os type of coach
 
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Kenny Williams needs to start and Britt to the bench. Kenny is more effective playing with the more experienced players.....this putting 7th at point with the 2nd unit is a waste of possessions.

Britt should be the point to give the 2nd team direction and leadership. Let 7th just play like he wants too. You can see it in his body language.

I hate watching bad guard play and last night was disgusting.

Having said that.....Predictable......too much time off.....obvious the 1st 2 mins.....Indiana was excited from the tip. We did not have the same aggressiveness from the past 2 weeks.
 
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trimbornunc86 said:
A couple things for me IMO:
1. A road loss in early November to a top 25 team, not the worst, especially if you can learn from it
2. Luke maye should not be getting that many minutes, you can tell he has the heart but no where near the athleticism to play against big time opponents. You want to play him against a davidson or LBSU thats one thing but when he is going against big time players he just cant hang
3. That crowd was insane, I like how RW and brice johnson all were calling out the UNC fans for it and they are 100 percent right, something needs to be done. Obviously nothing will change for this season but the more press it gets maybe something will
4. As good as hicks can look is as bad as he can look some nights, you just wonder, how can a senior with that much ability and atheltisicm just dissapear like that
5. Berry had an off night, not much you can do about that.
6. Freshman will be freshman they will have their up and downs, that was prolly the most intense crowd they have ever played in front of
7. For the life of me, I cant figure out why RW wont call a time out, you could tell we were so close to getting run out of the building the first 10 minutes. I dont care if we have 12 seniors, call a danm timeout, letting them play through it clearly never works...Maybe its roys stubborness, idk what it is..but there is no dobht about it, RW is not a good X and Os type of coach
Click to expand...

Luke played 8mins, had a couple points, couple rebounds, and a block (the 3 fouls were not pretty) but considering how this team played there is no way I can single Luke's minutes as the problem. Tony played 15mins and scored what, 4 pts and pulled 4 rebounds? Hicks 27 mins and what 7pts 6rebounds and 3 TOs? And we are worried about Luke's minutes? LOL

As for Roy and time outs, seems that drum gets beat after every loss, isn't it getting about time we got some new material cause the time out thing is getting old. Personally, this time of the year I want Roy to make them play thru adversity. I would rather see them play thru adversity now and learn from it than not be used to it in post season.

One other item, this thing about Roy not being a great X&O coach, not picking on the poster for saying this but but it is more about execution than what a coach draws up and we didn't execute. Indiana took this game on like we take duke coming to the dome, we didn't match that intensity, it was a bigger game to them than it was for us and the results show that.
 
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