1st thought of most coaches when their player makes a bush league move like Allen: "he is going to come sit with me for a while". LOM's 1st thought: "that's my boy!"
Grayson Allen = another Dook punk
- Thread starter Ozheelfan
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Awesome and no not the play itself but I absolutely love the Duke and K outrage threads LOVE them. I read and I smile. Surprised there wasn't anything here about the DSPN commercials with K texting ex players. UK board had that thread. Sorry continue 
Awesome and no not the play itself but I absolutely love the Duke and K outrage threads LOVE them. I read and I smile. Surprised there wasn't anything here about the DSPN commercials with K texting ex players. UK board had that thread. Sorry continue
Was it a bush league play or not Cane?
Awesome and no not the play itself but I absolutely love the Duke and K outrage threads LOVE them. I read and I smile. Surprised there wasn't anything here about the DSPN commercials with K texting ex players. UK board had that thread. Sorry continue
This makes sense to me. Kind of like when I rip a rude fart in a crowded room. Everyone else in the room is disgusted and outraged at the fart... but it's my little fart, and I love it with all my heart.
In this analogy:
I = you
The Fart = dook/K
Everyone else = anyone with a brain
Hark. Perfect. Thanks for making my day with the literal LOL
Don't presume to know what the entire fan base thinks. Both my wife and I are Duke alums and can't stand the cheap stuff we saw sometimes from Tyus and Justise last year. As for Grayson, personally don't care for him.
Maybe sit his butt down? Because that's what any respectable coach would do IMO. Or is Allen too valuable for the LOM to risk that?
ha ha knew I set myself up for that one. I probably would not have sat him because that hurts the other players who are trying to win. I would certainly have taken care of him during practice. Rest assured once I'm done he would never do something like that again. And I probably would have made him go to the UL locker room to apologize as well. Many ways to handle things without hurting everyone. The goal is to correct the behavior not simply to punish or appease other fans, programs and media with HOW it's done. When I played baseball, basketball and football (no not at a high level), that's generally how my coaches dealt with me and my teammates and it worked. Suicides till I throw up, stairs, gassers, something along those lines. Sitting someone was generally reserved for someone who's behavior was hurting the team in a way that could prevent a win. Obviously if you were ineligible or got suspended for fighting or drugs. But emotional bone headed plays that wasn't repeated? Smoke them.
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the issue is that every year the NCAA rules committee releases all this bullshit that they are going to tighten up, including many of the things that dook does on a regular basis, ie: flopping, hand checking, moving screens, etc. but miraculously nothing ever happens or nothing is ever addressed especially in cases like this. its laughable.
Nice honest post. You deserve respect IMO and I shouldn't paint ALL Duke fans with such a broad brush.
To clarify regarding the broad disrespect (I won't call it hate) Duke garners.... I'll leave UNC out of it, to try to be objective:
In many measures you can say that UK, KU, UCLA, and maybe Indiana have had more success historically than Duke in college BB. So why are they broadly hated or disrespected way less than Duke? Its how they go about the game... their brand, their image, that is superior to Duke's in the objective public's eye, IMO.
Calipari sure isn't my guy, and I'm sure there are plenty of UK fans who are "real treats" to deal with.... but I can't say for any of these programs that they have such a collection of fans, coaches, or players that garner little or no respect, like so many do within the Duke program.
In these other programs, I think people can be envious of what they accomplish, but at the same time I generally respect the coaches, the fans and the players, and how they go about it in their programs, in achieving their results, and in what they convey and condone as players, coaches, and fans.
Again, not to broad brush, but in those regards I mentioned above, there is just a lot less to respect - a lot more to disrespect - in the Duke program (fans, coaches, players) than in other programs....
obviously just from one guy's POV.
WOOOOOOO, Did you said what I just read? You will be officially kicked of the next Dungeon & Dragons event held on that dukie campus!
Truthfully, one of my very dearest friends in this life is a staunch dukie lover, I could not ask for a better friend and you will not find a better man. As I have told him so many times, he would be awesome if he could just lose that one character flaw of being a dukie! LOL
Some of the most nice people I have ever met were big time KY fans, sure they have their share of nut jobs but all fan bases do. Heck, I live just about 10mi from the South Carolina campus and every one here are HUGE Gamecock fans but some of the best people I have ever met live right here in Columbia SC.
Fans are fans, the person behind the screen name I gurantee ya, you may hate him as a poster but if you met him in real life you would most likely become life long buds.
I don't hate dukies, Kitty Kat lovers, wuffies, or the chicken chokers, I sports hate them and sports hate is not supposed to be real hate (it isn't with me for darn sure)! Dukies hate me but they don't know me and that is fine, we all either laugh about this hatred stuff or we as individuals have real life problems that are not funny.
Not really. I mean the objective reality is that -- with the possible exception of UK and UNC -- none of the schools you mentioned have even remotely comparable success and notoriety in the past 30+ years since we entered the modern media age where there is intense national coverage of college basketball teams. It's just not comparable at all. UCLA hasn't been a consistent national power in 20 years, and has won a grand total of 1 national title since Wooden retired (i.e., 40+ years). Same with IU that hasn't won a title in 30 years, and competed for all of 1 title in the past 20+ years. KU only has 3 national titles in its entire history, and won a grand total of 2 since 1952. UK is closer. But even UK only has won 4 titles since the 50s (3 in the past 35 years), and played in a grand total of 5 title games since then.
By contrast, Duke has won 5 national titles in the past 25 years (i.e., 20% of the recent titles), been to 10 championship games in the past 30 years (i.e., 33% of all title games), 12 final fours in the past 30 years (40% of all final fours), and almost always fields a team that is highly ranked -- I think Duke's been in the top 10 for something approaching to 80% of the games Duke has played under Coach K. A truly crazy statistic -- particularly when you consider Duke wasn't in the top 10 at all during K's early years.
I think there are all sorts of reasons -- ranging from race, privilege, timing (Duke emerging at the time when cable tv was taking off -- i.e., making their coverage far more saturated than anything that predates it), etc.
Now, feel free to unload on me. lol. Though, IMO, outside of UNC fans -- there really is no doubt that the "hate" is race oriented. For instance, nobody outside of UNC fans "hated" justise winslow; nor were there any long articles about the hatred of winslow; etc. In fact, if you want to see my point, just google "justise winslow" & "hate" and see what you come up. And i'll break the punch line is -- a whole lot of nothing. In fact, the first article I see talks about how people shouldn't hate winslow and last year's duke team. Then go compare that to how grayson allen is covered. I'll break the punch line for you: there's a whole lot of "grayson allen" & hate. Regardless of what you think about the actual plays, reality is that nobody (outside of UNC message boards) really cared about winslow's play after that game ended. I actually think there's little doubt that UNC fans expressed a lot more outrage about that play than anything that was said by UVA fans. That, however, bears no resemblance to the deluge of big articles in ESPN, USAtoday, NYPost, etc. all over a single flagrant foul against Grayson Allen. I mean common. You're kidding yourselves if you think there isn't a race component to this.
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Awesome post Dave. Absolutely perfect, excellent perspective on sports, people, and real life - that I try to explain to my kids all the time. Sports is just fun, entertainment. Has zero to do with real life, real people, what / who really matters in your time in this world (and after).
Of course there is a race component, I think Christian Laettner is the biggest reason for that and I think that was made pretty clear in his 30 for 30. Not only was he a white guy who was better than almost anyone on a college court, he was also the cockiest guy around. Of course guys like JJ come along and follow in a similar vein, very successful white college players who also have a cocky edge. Laettner didn't help his cause with the stomp either and Grayson's head flops, his flailing and now this trip won't help quell whatever narrative the media chooses to take.
As you noted, UNC fans would dislike Grayson if he were yellow, black or blue. To me it was a dirty play and he should've been sat down for a while because it was a bush league move and sometimes setting a precedent is more important than one win or loss but K has never had that mantra and to each their own. Dean or Roy would've sat his ass down and I can appreciate a guy like Self who called out his player for dunking on an opponent as they were preparing to shake hands. Jones, Allen and Winslow, a lot of bush league stuff in a relatively small period of time.
As you noted, UNC fans would dislike Grayson if he were yellow, black or blue. To me it was a dirty play and he should've been sat down for a while because it was a bush league move and sometimes setting a precedent is more important than one win or loss but K has never had that mantra and to each their own. Dean or Roy would've sat his ass down and I can appreciate a guy like Self who called out his player for dunking on an opponent as they were preparing to shake hands. Jones, Allen and Winslow, a lot of bush league stuff in a relatively small period of time.
The sad part is how the writer is making Allen out as just another white dook player who is detested because he is continuing a long line of similar players under k. The outrage should not be about his color or his uniform but about a very dirty play that could have seriously injured an opponent.
I don't like getting into race on the boards but there is a great deal of truth in 55's post. I'm black and I've heard plenty of comments growing up about "why do you like that white boy team?" As opposed to UNLV or Michigan and Georgetown. I've also heard people say that if he's white and good he's probably going to Duke. Jay Williams also talks about folks used to say he talked White etc. listen what Jalen Rose said is or was shared by a lot of people. It's pretty hard to deny honestly unless it bothers one to such a degree that they just refuse which is understandable. There is a perception that white players are soft. Just a lot of nonsense out there and it's as if people think if you don't talk about it then it doesn't exist. None of it matters to me. I love Duke bball and Cane football which some would say wow complete opposites. One school with a perception for having thug black players and wiggers and the other with the perception of having white elitist preppies and uncle toms. All nonsense but it certainly exists.
I'll grant you the race stuff. TruCane described it pretty well.
Regarding the programs and success, you're missing my point. I apologize. You're hanging your hat on the recent titles and the top 10 rankings. No denying Duke has those things.....
I would counter that the BRAND and IMAGE and history and tradition, of these other programs, and HOW they accomplished what they accomplished, and the character of the coaches and what they teach, and the programs' fans' knowledge and loyalty (longevity with the program) .....
Duke (K, the fans, and the players that embrace being punks - white OR black there are plenty of both)......
fall short of The Programs at
KU - Phog, birthplace of basketball, top two in wins, many years of conference titles
UCLA - all the titles, dominance in West Coast ball, Wooden....
UK - wins, titles, recent star players with good character, diehard loyal engaged fan base
Again , just my opinion - not trying to change any minds.
I respectfully disagree with it being about race that drives the duke hatred, I think it is more a perceived elitism, a snobbery if you will, that many see as fake. As in the attempt to be the Harvard of the south all the way down to the fake replication attempts of Harvard like buildings.
People didn't hate Laetner because he was white, they hated him because the defined the work jerk, It is the punkish like behavior by both White and Black players that expect the refs to look the other way that drives opposing fans over the edge.
I agree race may be a factor but I do not think it is nearly the factor their flaunting elitism is...Just my opinion.
People didn't hate Laetner because he was white, they hated him because the defined the work jerk, It is the punkish like behavior by both White and Black players that expect the refs to look the other way that drives opposing fans over the edge.
I agree race may be a factor but I do not think it is nearly the factor their flaunting elitism is...Just my opinion.
I think you are underestimating how people feel about Duke. There were plenty of people that 'hated' Winslow. There were some people (not UNC fans) not long ago on the national board that brought up some of his antics. I also think jumping up and kicking a player while the play is going on is different than blatantly tripping a guy because you are pissed off you missed a shot. Plus, he was third fiddle last year. Allen is number for Duke this year, despite Ingram being a better prospect. I think Duke is largely disliked for two reasons. One reason: they win and have won a lot when media boomed. Second reason: some of them flop around and act like douchebags. There are also plenty of guys who play there who do not do that stuff. The ones who do sort of stand out because of the extremes to which they take it.
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Black dook punks: Abdulnaby, Battier, Quinn Cook, Brian Davis, Sean Dockery, Gerald Henderson, Dahntay Jones, Tyus Jones, Austin Rivers, Rasheed Sulaimon, Tyler Thornton, Justice Winslow
White dook punks: Grayson Allen, Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, Lee Melchionni, Greg Paulus, Whatever Plumlee, JJ Redick, Jon Scheyer, Wojo
This is, of course, just a partial list of the bigger 'aholes', and only includes those in the k era. I think it shows that dook is equal opportunity as far as punkdom is concerned.
White dook punks: Grayson Allen, Bobby Hurley, Christian Laettner, Lee Melchionni, Greg Paulus, Whatever Plumlee, JJ Redick, Jon Scheyer, Wojo
This is, of course, just a partial list of the bigger 'aholes', and only includes those in the k era. I think it shows that dook is equal opportunity as far as punkdom is concerned.
100% Grill. I was thinking the same but your list is pretty conclusive (a few names I couldn't remember) You could almost say It's not the colour of the player, but the shade of blue on their jersey. Hell, I reckon K could recruit a Buddhist and after one season the kid would turn into an utter asswipe.
BTW Sulaimon was an total dirtbag as a dookie but he seems to be much better behaved as a Terrapin??? Now that's saying something.
Scheyer is the one guy I would remove from that list, didn't play dirty, didn't run his mouth, & even though he's a dookie he seems like an ok guy. I'll give you that he probly went down on a 3 pointer a time or 10 like there was a sniper in the building, but I can't remember much else bad from him except the faces.
On the other hand, you are leaving off Danny Ferry & Danny Meagher (sp?), & Lee Melchioni should be listed 3 or 4 times, he was the worst.
You're right.... Sheyer was more of a dirty flopper than a dirty player. But hey, lets make fun of him anyway!:
I actually don't think Scheyer or Battier are total jerks, but their total buy-in on the flopping made them "dook punk" worthy. Good call on Meagher.
Melchioni got more douchery out of his limited minutes than just about any dookie ever.
Likely not the only thing he went down on during his time in Derm.
