Hubert Davis

[RP12]

How many coaches exist who are proven sure things in the current environment? I'm not sure we know what will be most important in 5 years and the current environment has been in place for like 2 years. Do we know that Izzo will have consistent top 20 teams in this environment? dook is killing it now but would anyone be shocked if they ended up with a dysfunctional group next year? Jay Wright has zero wins in this landscape. If the duties are going to be split up to me you want the best X and O guy (or gal) you can possibly get who also can get the most out of a group. Increasingly it looks like money and talent evaluation will be the keys to roster building and maybe that falls on GM and staff. In my opinion HD has failed on both fronts more than he's succeeded.

 

[benjadod]

Andrew, I have heard that UNC is also going to hire a few more assistant coaches, in addition to a GM. Has anything been said about what these coaches are going to focus on specifically? Recruiting? X's and O's? Player development (like say someone to work with the big men on their game, or someone to work on three point shooting)?

 

[bleeduncblue]

I wonder how often Hubert talks to Roy, or visa versa?

A lot.

 

[NathanFielder]

King Rice? No? With a better talent pool to pull from I think he could be a good HC at Carolina.

If a change is made from Hubert in the next 2-3 years, then UNC has to hire from outside the UNC family. There is nothing left on that tree that's a realistic option.

And if we're being honest post-Dean.

Guthridge - He had good seasons but the program was in far worse shape when he left than when he took over. Maybe an unfair expectation but that's probably not a good hire "within the family." 0/1

Doherty - Speaks for himself. 0/2

Roy - Speaks for himself and was the only one post-Dean to have real success at a college program. 1/3

Hubert - If he's replaced in the next 2-3 seasons, then it's a flop. 1/4

So does being in the family actually mean much when it comes to wins/losses and the overall strength of your program? The results are mixed, at best.

Can I ask why you're trying to figure out ways to keep it in the family? Does it mean a ton to you sentimentally? I'm not being a jerk, I just want to understand that part of the fanbase. And I'm asking you because you've brought up Jeff Lebo and King Rice and I think anyone would admit that that's really reaching to just keep it in the family.

 

[big_deez]

I love Phil, but unfortunately his time has come-and-gone, don't you think?

As for the family tree - to paraphrase AJ: "There are no more apples on the tree. Carolina needs to find a new tree".

Yea, I agree with your take on PFord, that ship has sailed but I think he would be a great coach. Btw, I agree with Mr. Jones

 

[big_deez]

King Rice? No? With a better talent pool to pull from I think he could be a good HC at Carolina.

King Rice, maybe but let's pass on another experiment...

 

[big_deez]

I agree 100%, but at this point its just to late.

Pull starters if they stink it up, replace with Blue Steel...

 

[ACokeForRoy]

If a change is made from Hubert in the next 2-3 years, then UNC has to hire from outside the UNC family. There is nothing left on that tree that's a realistic option.

And if we're being honest post-Dean.

Guthridge - He had good seasons but the program was in far worse shape when he left than when he took over. Maybe an unfair expectation but that's probably not a good hire "within the family." 0/1

Doherty - Speaks for himself. 0/2

Roy - Speaks for himself and was the only one post-Dean to have real success at a college program. 1/3

Hubert - If he's replaced in the next 2-3 seasons, then it's a flop. 1/4

So does being in the family actually mean much when it comes to wins/losses and the overall strength of your program? The results are mixed, at best.

Can I ask why you're trying to figure out ways to keep it in the family? Does it mean a ton to you sentimentally? I'm not being a jerk, I just want to understand that part of the fanbase. And I'm asking you because you've brought up Jeff Lebo and King Rice and I think anyone would admit that that's really reaching to just keep it in the family.

Its a fair question. I'm actually looking at options within and outside. But to answer your question, honestly I have felt a sense of loyalty with keeping it in the family. Sure there are other factors for success. Once we go outside the family, and i'm not totally against it, you open yourself up, as a program to that coach leaving in 3-4 years. What if his alma mater calls? What if his "other" dream job calls? Then your back to square one. A national coaching search all over again. Sure that's the landscape that college basketball is in. However, once you go outside the family, that's where it will remain. If there was one last push to keep it in the family, King Rice would be my choice. Bring Jamison to the bench with you. Outside the family? My choice, I don't believe he will come back in the environment that BB is in currently.
There are no guarantees either way. Hope I answered your question Nate. Cigar time for me.

 

[Sk1310]

Pull starters if they stink it up, replace with Blue Steel...

Roy did this a lot when he didn't like what he saw. Hubert? He tells them he is proud of them down 30.

 

[big_deez]

Roy did this a lot when he didn't like what he saw. Hubert? He tells them he is proud of them down 30.

🤣

 

[_B5]

I am still waiting on the moment in which Hubert says inorder to keep my job I need to go big and no longer plays rj and Elliott together. I think this team becomes tourney bound if we go rj/elliott, Ian, drake, withers and Lubin/Washington. More importantly in the half court makes a conscious effort to get the ball in the low post.

However, I doubt he will ever get that epiphany

 

[NathanFielder]

Its a fair question. I'm actually looking at options within and outside. But to answer your question, honestly I have felt a sense of loyalty with keeping it in the family. Sure there are other factors for success. Once we go outside the family, and i'm not totally against it, you open yourself up, as a program to that coach leaving in 3-4 years. What if his alma mater calls? What if his "other" dream job calls? Then your back to square one. A national coaching search all over again. Sure that's the landscape that college basketball is in. However, once you go outside the family, that's where it will remain. If there was one last push to keep it in the family, King Rice would be my choice. Bring Jamison to the bench with you. Outside the family? My choice, I don't believe he will come back in the environment that BB is in currently.
There are no guarantees either way. Hope I answered your question Nate. Cigar time for me.

Sure, understand what you're saying. I'm not sure if anyone would leave UNC unless their alma mater is a significant program. Or they have aspirations to coach for a good NBA franchise. And let's be honest, UNC has lost most of its NBA equity. Its NBA relevance in the current NBA is pretty minimal.

There was that period maybe 15 years ago where Oklahoma State had an oil tycoon booster and they would try to get Bill Self, whose alma mater is Oklahoma State. And I don't think it ever got all that serious beyond internet rumors.

I also don't think you can guarantee that King Rice is even an upgrade over Hubert. A lot of that is just loose assumptions of "can you imagine this coach with UNC's resources?" But it's hard to connect what Rice is doing as such a different school like Monmouth and project success at UNC. It leads me to think there's no way of knowing if he'd be an upgrade over Hubert.

 

[TarHeelMark]

As far as the family tree goes, none of the guys routinely mentioned (King, Wes, Stack) are getting calls from other blue-bloods, so why should we? King's last few seasons have been looking pretty bad. Wes is doing ok I guess, but he still hasn't gotten to the dance and he's certainly not getting phone calls from higher-level programs. As for Stack, Vandy is looking much better now after he left, which is not a good look for him. I can't even think of any other family connections out there right now that are even worth mentioning.

As NathanF posted we are batting .250 keeping it in the family (unless a magical turnaround occurs w/ HD). Roy is the only one of the four post-Dean hires that would've gotten any interest from other elite programs. We were lucky as Heel to have him come back home.

 

[DSouthr]

Andrew, I have heard that UNC is also going to hire a few more assistant coaches, in addition to a GM. Has anything been said about what these coaches are going to focus on specifically? Recruiting? X's and O's? Player development (like say someone to work with the big men on their game, or someone to work on three point shooting)?

THAT is EXACTLY what I hope we see!

BADLY needed is some one or a team that breaks down game film for both teams we will play and how we play. The turn around between games is simply not enough time to really break down film in great detail. Example, we played Pitt, you heard the announcer, over and over and over say, that PG is great going to his left but not so much to his right. Clearly UNC did not realize that prior to this game because our guards were actually hedging him to drive left. Just 1 example of many but this is information you want your coach to have so he can drill the players on taking away that guys left hand. You have to really drill down to find those tendencys, time I am not sure Hubert has had.

Know who fits that job best, a coach of a small program because those guys have to search hard for any advantage they can get, they don't typically get the super star talents, they have to find and use any advantage they can because his teams can't out talent you.

I am as well hoping to see a version of offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator, a standard in football but an experienced hand to help our coach form a solid attack on both ends. Especially so for our head coach that is just now in his 4th season EVER as a head coach. To me, coaches should coach players PERIOD. WE should have a big man coach, recall coach Gut, we should have a guard coach, we should have a PG specific coach, should have a shooting coach. This positionless stuff is bull crap, it never made any sense, still doesn't. Hubert can talk position less all he wants, he knows better, when I see Cadeau trying to play the center spot and Lubin running as our PG, then maybe I will say Hubert believes in positionless ball, I do not expect to see that. But all this nonsense switching all 5 positions does have Cadeau trying to defend a big man deep in the paint, that is called "MOUSE IN THE HOUSE", it does not work out well for the little guy.

 

[Point2Passer]

I see the the “Hubs” supporters always reference the championship game appearance, but we tend to forget to mention he blew a 15 point halftime lead (the biggest in champ game history).

The ankle didn’t help, but a good coach doesn’t squander that lead. Not in that environment.

You can’t give him the credit for the 2022 run without then giving him some blame for blowing that NCAA title. You can’t have it both ways.

 

[CarolinaMagic]

Nate Oates is the guy you want. Hubert Davis is the nicest guy in the world but Carolina made a massive mistake by not doing a national coaching search when Roy Williams retired. That search was an absolute joke.

 

[heels05champs]

I see the the “Hubs” supporters always reference the championship game appearance, but we tend to forget to mention he blew a 15 point halftime lead (the biggest in champ game history).

The ankle didn’t help, but a good coach doesn’t squander that lead. Not in that environment.

You can’t give him the credit for the 2022 run without then giving him some blame for blowing that NCAA title. You can’t have it both ways.

It would be worth mentioning the disappointing regular season that year as well.

 

[big_deez]

THAT is EXACTLY what I hope we see!

BADLY needed is some one or a team that breaks down game film for both teams we will play and how we play. The turn around between games is simply not enough time to really break down film in great detail. Example, we played Pitt, you heard the announcer, over and over and over say, that PG is great going to his left but not so much to his right. Clearly UNC did not realize that prior to this game because our guards were actually hedging him to drive left. Just 1 example of many but this is information you want your coach to have so he can drill the players on taking away that guys left hand. You have to really drill down to find those tendencys, time I am not sure Hubert has had.

Know who fits that job best, a coach of a small program because those guys have to search hard for any advantage they can get, they don't typically get the super star talents, they have to find and use any advantage they can because his teams can't out talent you.

I am as well hoping to see a version of offensive coordinator and defensive coordinator, a standard in football but an experienced hand to help our coach form a solid attack on both ends. Especially so for our head coach that is just now in his 4th season EVER as a head coach. To me, coaches should coach players PERIOD. WE should have a big man coach, recall coach Gut, we should have a guard coach, we should have a PG specific coach, should have a shooting coach. This positionless stuff is bull crap, it never made any sense, still doesn't. Hubert can talk position less all he wants, he knows better, when I see Cadeau trying to play the center spot and Lubin running as our PG, then maybe I will say Hubert believes in positionless ball, I do not expect to see that. But all this nonsense switching all 5 positions does have Cadeau trying to defend a big man deep in the paint, that is called "MOUSE IN THE HOUSE", it does not work out well for the little guy.

Is it also true HD isn't a fan of analytics? I feel that's been discussed and if true is a problem. That's funny you mentioned that DS, during the Pitt game, the dude wouldn't shut up about the kid going to his left. I guess he mentioned it over and over because UNC seemed oblivious to it.

 

[NathanFielder]

Is it also true HD isn't a fan of analytics? I feel that's been discussed and if true is a problem. That's funny you mentioned that DS, during the Pitt game, the dude wouldn't shut up about the kid going to his left. I guess he mentioned it over and over because UNC seemed oblivious to it.

I recall AJ asking him in Maui about analytics and AJ mentioned Hubert isn't really a fan of analytics. I also think he doesn't really understand analytics. AJ asked him what analytics do you look for? He said, "assists to turnover ratio." Not saying ast/to isn't important. But ast/to ratio isn't an advanced analytic metric. So it concerned me he picked a non-tempo-adjusted statistic like that.

Hubert also mentioned that the rebounding margin is the biggest indicator in winning games... Which isn't really true. The biggest indicator is offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency. Rebounding is important but it's a really old school way of thinking it's the biggest indicator in winning.

 

[DSouthr]

I did not speak to the recruiting aspect of this front office, it is maybe the most exciting aspect of this from my view point. I do caution, what I am offering is what I think and hope will be our front office frame work, it is very similar to what Belichick is doing on the football side.

Now imagine, a team that breaks down game film in as much depth as you would breaking down game film of a player you play in your next game. First you look for measurables like Height, weight, reach, bench press, legs squat, 40 times ect. Then sort it for position projected to play and if they cross over positions. For a guard you really want to fine tune in on speed and quickness, a big man how well does he get off the floor, better 1 leg or 2, physical strength and balance shown to play thru contact. These are all aspects that tell you if the kid has or can have with S/C work the physical tools you are looking for. It can project what physical limitations a kid may have. Those that pass thru this filter go to the next filter.

Say on a scale of 1-10, how competitive is he, does he play multiple sports in high school, does he seem to have a bit of a chip, is he a fighter that does not back down easy. How is he in the classroom, any run ins with the law, who is running his recruitment? These are questions to get a feeling for the kid himself, is he coachable, will we have off court issues ect. If it is a portal kid I want to talk to that old schools version of AJ. I don't trust national services because at most they are lucky to see a kid play 3 times before they start pushing him but that local reporter that is on the ground near him attends all his games, takes the time to think thru all those games and gives you insite that national guys just can't.


I then pass on all that filtered information to the GM who is the bean counter, who talks to agents, talks to family, talks to coaches, determines what numbers have to happen and if UNC can afford them. If Hubert says I need 2 big men and a wing shooter, the GM hands him a list of 4-5 centers, 4-5 power forwards, and 4-5 shooter wings.l The ones Hubert likes the GM then makes contact with the kid, his family, and again to his coaches to gauge the kid's interest in UNC already knowing the numbers. Weeds the list for Hubert to get involved with down to 4 or 5 guys, from there the GM and Hubert work together to make contact and set visits. If Hubert for example has 2 or 3 guys in mind, pass them to the recruiting team to explore first and get back to Hubert those guys that pass thru.

Trying to give a basic frame work, it will have to be tweeked, going to have to find a lot of just right fit's for the roles, will have to rely on grad assts at least for a while. IO expect there to be a fly wheel effect initially in play but one it begins to run smoothly, you will see the results on the floor. Did you realize that duke has this so down now that Cooper Flagg has his own personal coach in Chris Carrawell that sits right there on that duke bench.

 

[DSouthr]

Is it also true HD isn't a fan of analytics? I feel that's been discussed and if true is a problem. That's funny you mentioned that DS, during the Pitt game, the dude wouldn't shut up about the kid going to his left. I guess he mentioned it over and over because UNC seemed oblivious to it.

deez, man,what I would say that it really does matter if Hubert likes analytics or not, he didn't see the need for a GM 3yrs ago either. Simple as this, either accept it or go find a job, it should be Bubba's call and not Hubert's. Of course you want the head coach buy in but if your coach does not buy in simply go find a coach that will. But I actually don't think that will be a problem, Hubert has seen now that the old way no longer works and it is now all about lead, follow, or get out of the way. How Dean and Roy did the job of head coach for UNC, sorry to say, no longer works and any coach now not willing to do the job as it is now required, has to go, we will still say nice things about you but call a realtor...LOL