I cant wait til I retire

[bleeduncblue]

The problem is the push for everyone to go to college that started however many decades ago. Not everyone should go to college. Then that started the snowball effect of having to go to grad school because everyone had an undergrad. Now you have a bunch of people with massive debt just so they could be hired for a job that pays them 50k a year. Technical schools and associate degrees need to be pushed as an option just as much as college. There are plenty of good paying jobs for those types of degrees.

you're 100% correct.

in our county (regardless of skin color or ethnicity) you can go to the CC and go through the plumbing or HVAC program for less than $1200 and in one year get guaranteed job placement starting at $70k. it's solid, hard work but with the maximum amount of job security possible.

saw this question elsewhere recently: why dont we see black plumbers and HVAC techs? it's extremely rare. i'm 46yo and have been around the blue collar trades all of my adult life - i cant remember more than a couple instances.

 

[carolinablue34]

you're 100% correct.

in our county (regardless of skin color or ethnicity) you can go to the CC and go through the plumbing or HVAC program for less than $1200 and in one year get guaranteed job placement starting at $70k. it's solid, hard work but with the maximum amount of job security possible.

saw this question elsewhere recently: why dont we see black plumbers and HVAC techs? it's extremely rare. i'm 46yo and have been around the blue collar trades all of my adult life - i cant remember more than a couple instances.

If I might hazard a guess, though I don't know precisely because I'm not sure where you grew up, a combination of racism, poverty, and culture.

You might bristle at the first. But being 46 years old, I assume that things were more hostile, even in those days. I'm not accusing you of perpetuating this, but the kind of racism black people experienced doesn't just vanish overnight after a few Civil Rights bills get passed.

Also $1200 is a sum of money a lot of people can't afford (yes, even now). That's a massive barrier.

But I think another key reason is lack of encouragement. That goes for everybody, not just black people. In an era where white collar trades are heavily encouraged, few think of being a plumber as a viable profession. For young black people entrenched in a culture that views rapping and professional sports as the highest form of achievement, why would anyone be a plumber?

 

[bleeduncblue]

If I might hazard a guess, though I don't know precisely because I'm not sure where you grew up, a combination of racism, poverty, and culture.

You might bristle at the first. But being 46 years old, I assume that things were more hostile, even in those days. I'm not accusing you of perpetuating this, but the kind of racism black people experienced doesn't just vanish overnight after a few Civil Rights bills get passed.

Also $1200 is a sum of money a lot of people can't afford (yes, even now). That's a massive barrier.

But I think another key reason is lack of encouragement. That goes for everybody, not just black people. In an era where white collar trades are heavily encouraged, few think of being a plumber as a viable profession. For young black people entrenched in a culture that views rapping and professional sports as the highest form of achievement, why would anyone be a plumber?

i appreciate the thoughtful response. will you break some of this down a little further? how is racism keeping young black men from pursuing the trades? i wholeheartedly agree that racism has not and never will leave us .. in all directions. i have a 12yo black daughter and i cant tell you how many racist comments i've / we've heard since she joined our family 9 years ago. (i also have a black niece, nephew and stepdad)

re: the $1200 ... there are piles and piles of scholarship money for minorities for these programs (a piece of evidence against the racism argument, actually). and i know for a fact that high school counselors are passing this info along to juniors and seniors at the public and charter schools. but these scholarships dont just fall out of the air, they require time and effort. also, even at minimum wage, $1200 could be saved up in less than 4-6 months with "normal" living expenses at 18yo.

i agree with your 'lack of encouragement' point.

 

[bluetoe]

you're 100% correct.

in our county (regardless of skin color or ethnicity) you can go to the CC and go through the plumbing or HVAC program for less than $1200 and in one year get guaranteed job placement starting at $70k. it's solid, hard work but with the maximum amount of job security possible.

saw this question elsewhere recently: why dont we see black plumbers and HVAC techs? it's extremely rare. i'm 46yo and have been around the blue collar trades all of my adult life - i cant remember more than a couple instances.

you don't see many Orientals either.

 

[blazers]

Uhh... publicly funded charter school has no oversight outside of a failing, extreme right-wing private college? Doesn't sound right.

Bailey: Moms for Liberty want it their way — and they’re getting it

Charleston County Moms for Liberty leaders are working with Hillsdale College to open a classical K-12 charter school in Mount Pleasant, funded by SC taxpayers.

www.postandcourier.com

 

[bluetoe]

Uhh... publicly funded charter school has no oversight outside of a failing, extreme right-wing private college? Doesn't sound right.

Bailey: Moms for Liberty want it their way — and they’re getting it

Charleston County Moms for Liberty leaders are working with Hillsdale College to open a classical K-12 charter school in Mount Pleasant, funded by SC taxpayers.

www.postandcourier.com

View embedded media

wait, are you suggesting that charter schools would be better overseen by the same liberal knuckleheads that oversee failing public grade school education?

 

[chickenhunter]

you don't see many Orientals either.

Or women. Why is there a push for women to get equal chances to get some jobs but not for all jobs? Not enough female lawyers, CEO's, judges, etc. How come no one pushes for more women in trades like a plumber, mechanic, truck driver, oil rig workers, farmers, etc?

 

[blazers]

wait, are you suggesting that charter schools would be better overseen by the same liberal knuckleheads that oversee failing public grade school education?

WTF? If it is publicly funded then it should not be overseen by something private. Why is this hard for you?

 

[bluetoe]

WTF? If it is publicly funded then it should not be overseen by something private. Why is this hard for you?

it isn't hard for me. I easily see that what you were keying on was the 'extreme right wing and failing' part of your gripe. So my question remains unanswered just as I knew it would. Because it isn't hard to see that you are just doing what you do, evading the questions that are hard for you to answer honestly.

So here's another question since you brought it up. WHY shouldn't any educational endeavor be overseen by whatever entity is suitable to the task at hand? WHY should it be publicly overseen by the same idiots who are farking up the rest of the system and degrading actual education? Isn't the quality of the education what really matters? Or is it that the liberal manifesto be adhered to?

 

[gunslingerdick]

If I might hazard a guess, though I don't know precisely because I'm not sure where you grew up, a combination of racism, poverty, and culture.

You might bristle at the first. But being 46 years old, I assume that things were more hostile, even in those days. I'm not accusing you of perpetuating this, but the kind of racism black people experienced doesn't just vanish overnight after a few Civil Rights bills get passed.

Also $1200 is a sum of money a lot of people can't afford (yes, even now). That's a massive barrier.

But I think another key reason is lack of encouragement. That goes for everybody, not just black people. In an era where white collar trades are heavily encouraged, few think of being a plumber as a viable profession. For young black people entrenched in a culture that views rapping and professional sports as the highest form of achievement, why would anyone be a plumber?

For the record, there was very little "hostility" in the 80s and 90s. Now, I'm not saying there wasn't racism. There was. But it was more the silent type. Like Guidance Counselors not even bothering to encourage black kids to go to college. But hostility is the wrong word. Hostility is what we have now.

But I do agree that opportunity has played a part in it.

 

[bluetoe]

It wasn't just middle and upper class. I would say that most of the people I went to school with, including me, would fit in the lower class category. Same thing for a lot of other schools in my county. I understand your need to always blame woke culture and/or the younger generations, but this isn't a new issue.

I'm siding with you on this one. I was definitely not even scaring middle class but expectations from every direction were that I would go for a college education, and that was the same for almost everyone I went to school with who were at least passable students, excepting the relatively few hardcore non-collegiate types.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Thousands of schools risk closure due to 'massive' enrollment loss: new report

Researchers at the Brookings Institution warned that thousands of school districts risk closing due to drastic enrollment loss as parents seek other options and private schools.

www.foxnews.com

Abandon ship! Abandon ship!

 

[pooponduke]

I'm siding with you on this one. I was definitely not even scaring middle class but expectations from every direction were that I would go for a college education, and that was the same for almost everyone I went to school with who were at least passable students, excepting the relatively few hardcore non-collegiate types.

Expectations were key for me. Both of my parents were first timers in their family lines of having the opportunity/benefit of post hs education. When I grew up, there just was never any thought in my mind of anything other than going to college. It was never really discussed or anything, it was just what I would be doing the same as putting my socks on before my shoes. We lived a very middle class life and my parents worked hard providing stability for us. It's interesting what you realize as you age and some of the decisions they made for us - certainly not the best financially, but perhaps the best for us as a family. I recognize now what a huge advantage my brothers and I had growing up in a two parent household where we could depend on both of our parents. They made it through 60 years of marriage before my dad passed. Pretty ideal in that sense. So many kids today have such huge challenges that I didn't face,

On the education front, I was public school the whole way and did well in that sense. The opportunities were there if you took advantage of them, which is another thing where the two parent household came into play. I don't know what the answer is today, but I will simply ask one question.

If public official control of the education system was the answer, why would there be a need for private or alternative schools? That is, if they were doing such a bang up job in their roles and content of what they are doing, it seems like the private institutions would go out of business. To me, it comes back to this entire notion that government is or must provide an answer to everything. Teachers need to be focused on teaching subject areas versus taking on the role of raising our children. Educators have a hard enough time raising their own kids without the burden of raising everyone else's. That's the dirty little topic that no one from government wants to talk about. Teachers need to teach and parents need to parent. I know, a radical concept.

 

[bluetoe]

If public official control of the education system was the answer, why would there be a need for private or alternative schools?

Racism and elitism and all the other usual 'isms, as well as a good dose of the 'ogynies.

C'mon man, pay attention...and start realizing that this has nothing to do with education.

eta ^^^^ this is sarcasm

 

[chickenhunter]

Sadly, educators cant educate because of disruptions. Not allowed to put kids out of class because "they deserve an education like the other students." It takes an act of congress to get a kid sent to an alternative site. According to those in charge, the bad kids deserve to disrupt a class and keep other students from learning. Thats the status of our educational system. Its ****ed up beyond repair. Parents want to take their child out of public schools because they are overrun with POS kids. Good kids get ****ed over on a regular basis. Admin doesnt know the really good, academically and behaviorally kids because they spend so ****ing much time dealing with discipline. The amount of paperwork involved in discipline is outrageous. At my former school, we had 1 full time person working on specifically discipline forms. We have kids curse teachers out, throw items at them, threaten to fight them, lie to and about them, disrupt the class constantly and only thing can be done is suspension. Thats it. In NC, a student cant be suspended more than 10 days within a school year. if a student continues to get in trouble, there is a list of things that have to be done before they can get REFERRED to alternative school. If the meeting is held and the paperwork in not in exact order, not followed to the T, it gets kicked out and kid goes right back to class like nothing ever happened.

At the end of school year 2022-2023, almost 5000 teacher left the profession in NC alone. These classes are being taught by subs that have ZERO idea how to teach or the subject they are teaching. And the public wonders why scores are so low. Still, you cant hardly get substitutes because NC pays shit for a sub. About 90 dollars a day to put up with the ****ing foolishness of kids? **** that. I dont want to teach any longer but Im biding my time til I retire. Ive gotten so disgusted and disheartened with education. Im to the point the IDGAF.

 

[gunslingerdick]

We’d be better off as a society if we were just willing to cut our losses. That goes for a lot more situations than just public education.

 

[bluetoe]

We’d be better off as a society if we were just willing to cut our losses. That goes for a lot more situations than just public education.

cut our losses but not abandon the losers. Just try to deal with them for what they are and there might actually be some hope for their betterment as well as ours.

 

[blazers]

Sadly, educators cant educate because of disruptions. Not allowed to put kids out of class because "they deserve an education like the other students." It takes an act of congress to get a kid sent to an alternative site. According to those in charge, the bad kids deserve to disrupt a class and keep other students from learning. Thats the status of our educational system. Its ****ed up beyond repair. Parents want to take their child out of public schools because they are overrun with POS kids. Good kids get ****ed over on a regular basis. Admin doesnt know the really good, academically and behaviorally kids because they spend so ****ing much time dealing with discipline. The amount of paperwork involved in discipline is outrageous. At my former school, we had 1 full time person working on specifically discipline forms. We have kids curse teachers out, throw items at them, threaten to fight them, lie to and about them, disrupt the class constantly and only thing can be done is suspension. Thats it. In NC, a student cant be suspended more than 10 days within a school year. if a student continues to get in trouble, there is a list of things that have to be done before they can get REFERRED to alternative school. If the meeting is held and the paperwork in not in exact order, not followed to the T, it gets kicked out and kid goes right back to class like nothing ever happened.

At the end of school year 2022-2023, almost 5000 teacher left the profession in NC alone. These classes are being taught by subs that have ZERO idea how to teach or the subject they are teaching. And the public wonders why scores are so low. Still, you cant hardly get substitutes because NC pays shit for a sub. About 90 dollars a day to put up with the ****ing foolishness of kids? **** that. I dont want to teach any longer but Im biding my time til I retire. Ive gotten so disgusted and disheartened with education. Im to the point the IDGAF.

As of 2023, there are a 735 billionaires in the U.S. Cops and teachers are making their world safe and educated. without safety, order and education they likely wouldn't have the fine economy that helped them make their billions.

 

[blazers]

So here's another question since you brought it up. WHY shouldn't any educational endeavor be overseen by whatever entity is suitable to the task at hand?

Define suitable. Are they accountable and are they meeting a mission that the public requests, since it is public money they're using?

WHY should it be publicly overseen by the same idiots who are farking up the rest of the system and degrading actual education? Isn't the quality of the education what really matters? Or is it that the liberal manifesto be adhered to?

Instead of taking my tax dollars and putting them toward an unaccountable private/charter group (who have been labeled a extremist, anti-gov, and a hate group) why not fix the farked up system?

 

[bluetoe]

Define suitable. Are they accountable and are they meeting a mission that the public requests, since it is public money they're using?

Instead of taking my tax dollars and putting them toward an unaccountable private/charter group (who have been labeled a extremist, anti-gov, and a hate group) why not fix the farked up system?

lol, where to begin.

Can you libs even breathe without spouting insinuation and innuendo? Stop tossing around crap like "(who have been labeled a extremist, anti-gov, and a hate group). If I accidentally look at a minority cross-eyed, I am ;labeled the same. Your labels mean shit to me. They don't represent reality, and I automatically discard them as leftist hysteria.

But let's agree that they are rightist. There is nothing evil about having a conservative POV, AND, that has nothing to do with their ability to oversee an educational endeavor. But the question remains, ARE they capable. Their political leanings notwithstanding, I know as little about that as you do, but there has been no evidence presented to suggest that they are INcapable, and therefor my assumption is that they can handle it. So far as the public funding is concerned, can you explain where any effective oversight is for the gazillion dollars that goes into the dole and other money holes? No of course you can't. But you can ignore the leftist catastrophe that our public education is to pick on one single instance of a right-leaning entity being involved with public funding and all of a sudden there has to be great accountability. Give me a break.

 

[bluetoe]

As of 2023, there are a 735 billionaires in the U.S. Cops and teachers are making their world safe and educated. without safety, order and education they likely wouldn't have the fine economy that helped them make their billions.

OMG, you are getting desperate, Probably just hang it up on this one, I would advise. Maybe your approach is to throw out so much ridiculousness that we can't decide how to reply to all of it.

I do have this one comment. On one hand you tout an education of everyday people so fine that it helps billionaires become billionaires. That's the silliest way to substantiate your POV that I can imagine. But the hypocrisy is always present, because on the other hand you will condemn the billionaires for exploiting those whose education is inadequate for the purpose of becoming wealthy themselves. Give me a break.