I have a question...
- Thread starter dgheel57
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Making clutch FT's is a mental thing and something we've struggled with for several years. Whatever we're doing needs to be changed. It's been our undoing in many a game.
Phil Ford seemed automatic under pressure..... until he wasn't. I was always shocked when Phil missed a high stakes FT, but it happened, more than once.
I agree, we have let ourselves down at the FT line at times, and it is hard to take. I feel the same about our overall 3 point shooting for many of the last few years. Wish I had an easy solution for it.
I agree, we have let ourselves down at the FT line at times, and it is hard to take. I feel the same about our overall 3 point shooting for many of the last few years. Wish I had an easy solution for it.
Great statement.
Carolina doesn't miss any more FTs in crunch time than any other team. It just seems that way because we're fans and we care when our guys miss them.
We are not a poor FT shooting team. We shoot 70% as a team, which ranks us 166 out 347 - right in the middle (and 10th in the ACC). And we don't have a reputation of a program that consistently shoots poorly from the FT line.
As @Archer2 said above, making FTs, especially in crunch time, is a mental thing. You could argue we don't have mentally tough players and I guess I'd entertain that argument. But again, I think some of y'all are belaboring a point that's not really there. We missed some in the duke game. It happens. No one ever cites the games where we shoot well as being "super clutch". Why is that?
I can't think of a game we won at the line. It's probably happened. But my sense is that when we win a game where we were great at the line we were usually good at other things, too, and would have won anyway. So when we lose a close one when we were bad at the line, it stands out.
I was struck a few games back when the announcers talked about Notre Dame leading the league in FTs but then going into a slump (68% apparently counts as a slump for ND). At which point Brey had them focusing on FT shooting and they snapped back to 80% or whatever their pace is.
Maybe we need to talk to Brey, or hire his FT consultant.
I was struck a few games back when the announcers talked about Notre Dame leading the league in FTs but then going into a slump (68% apparently counts as a slump for ND). At which point Brey had them focusing on FT shooting and they snapped back to 80% or whatever their pace is.
Maybe we need to talk to Brey, or hire his FT consultant.
Against Clemson - a game we won by 3 points - we shot 9/12 (75%)
Against WFU - a game we won by 6 points - we shot 19/24 (79%)
Against BC - a game we won by 8 points - we shot 24/29 (82%)
If we shot our average (70%) in any of those 3 games, there's a good chance we lose.
Kennard & Allen both missed the front end of a 1 & 1 late in yesterday's game. If Clemson hits a 3 to win it on the last possession, they're in the same boat. Of course, Clemson would actually have to get a shot off to make it though.
All other things being equal, we still win if we shoot 70%, but I take your point.
Also worth noting that we nearly lost the TN game due to bad FT shooting.
You make a good point - it isn't just the made or missed FTs, it's also that we may play differently depending on whether we are making or missing them. A team like ND can run plays designed to elicit fouls - like we used to do with Hansbrough in the middle - because they can punish you on the line. If you aren't sure of the outcome of trips to the line, you probably don't run a lot of those kinds of plays.
That said, we do have some pretty reliable FT shooters - Berry, Hicks, Jackson.... We should be going to the line more, don't you think?
Here's another one that baffles me. What happened to Nate's foul shooting?
2014 = .794
2015 = .882
2016 = .800
2017 = .625
He was a guy you wanted on the floor in close games for 3 years. Now you may still need him for ball handling, but he's a risk at the line.
We have only 4 guys shooting over 70% and one of them is Stilman who has only attempted 12 FTs this year.
2014 = .794
2015 = .882
2016 = .800
2017 = .625
He was a guy you wanted on the floor in close games for 3 years. Now you may still need him for ball handling, but he's a risk at the line.
We have only 4 guys shooting over 70% and one of them is Stilman who has only attempted 12 FTs this year.
Without painting with too broad of a brush, Roy goes after more athletes....and typically there is a difference in skilled (shooting) and athletic types of players. Even at UNC, Hansbrough was less athletic and more skilled. Hicks is both (but lacks some instinct on positioning). Duke recruits a lot of skilled players. Yes, there are some exceptions as Allen is both.
Also, we notice it more when our guys do bad vs good. As fans we want and expect good all the time. When they fail we notice it. When rivals do we are too focused on the good it means for us as fans.
Also, we notice it more when our guys do bad vs good. As fans we want and expect good all the time. When they fail we notice it. When rivals do we are too focused on the good it means for us as fans.
I don't know if I buy that - especially recently. Looking at this year's team, here's how it would break down, IMO:
Skilled:
JB
JJ
Hicks
Meeks
Bradley
Maye
Robinson (?)
Athletic:
Seventh
Williams
Theo
Hicks
Nate (?)
IMO, that's it. That's all. That's the explanation for this thread.
TBH, the only two guys I have confidence in to knock down crucial FT's are Joel and Isaiah. JJ is inconsistent, Kennedy isn't a good FT shooter, and Nate has regressed badly. It's one of my biggest concerns. I've been saying we need to bring somebody in to work with our players on FT shooting for years now.
I cannot prove it. I do believe it is a longer term result of shooting righty from the field and lefty from the line. I never liked that idea. It seemed great, for a while. Then less great and now not great at all.
Yes - the two players I remember him distinctly getting on - are JJ and JB - two of the better shooters.... but telling them to follow through and be moving your shooting motion TOWARD the rim... vs. sort of leaning away, which will leave the shot short.... which is about all our misses from JB and JJ, especially late in a game when they are likely tired.
We were a very good FT shooting team last year (75% as a team. It helps that Marcus and Brice were both 78% FT shooters
But this year's freshmen aren't getting that many attempts at the line. What is killing us is what others have mentioned...... Britt (-18 % points), and also Kennedy -6 % points regressing quite a bit I believe. Everybody else is shooting about the same, with Hicks +4 % points JJ actually +9 % points.
It's likely work out to about the same FT% year-to-year, but I wonder how hard it would be to calc the FT% stat if you counted a miss on the front end of a 1-and-1 as TWO misses (two shot opportunities where you got zero points)? Because missing the front end of 1-1 is exactly the same as missing both shots in a two FT opportunity.
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This is why I started this thread,there is no excuse as to why Meeks especially has not improved at the line going on 4 seasons.Who does work with them?
IIRC, KU led in almost every statistical category but shot 35-40% from the line. Roy did everything humanly possible to put KU in a position to win, but his players choked the game away at the line.
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