I wonder why people stay so broke

[Blue2010]

Hope you aren't exaggerating. If not, that is really impressive and I couldn't have done it.

Not joking. It was extremely tough and stressful, but the whole time I kept trying to use it as a way to build character and a work ethic. I actually didn't know I was going to graduate from UNCW until the actual day of graduation. My guidance counselor told me in my junior year that I might as well just pack my bags and head home and not even waste my time going to class b/c there was no way I would meet the minimum GPA level needed to proceed to my senior year.

I actually get embarrassed even writing this small snippet on here b/c I don't EVER want any accolades or acknowledgement. So many people have it far worse and are fighting through it. I'm just trying to be a good example for my family teach my kids to be humble, thankful, selfless, and good Christians.

 

[strummingram]

*Belle. Thanks for asking. She's amazing. Kid is really sharp, and hilarious. We're also grateful that she's sweet to her baby sister.

That was a miss-type. I knew that- Belle. Good to hear.

 

[prlyles]

If she and her husband were already working part-time voluntarily, it's not entirely accurate to say the program encourages them not to work. They were already doing that. She's just trying to game the system but your point remains. So many benefit programs are predicated on income level so there is a disincentive to work. It's bizarre.

The bottom line is the program allows people who do have a job to have a choice whether to work and pay for their health insurance or stay at home and let the taxpayers pay for it.

 

[gunslingerdick]

IMO paying to help someone should be an individual choice...not mandated by the state. No one has a right to my money but me.

BINGO!

As someone that works in the NPO world, I am a firm believer in what you poasted. IMO, the govt should get out of helping professions completely and let private, community-based NPOs handle the needs of their specific community. As I've stated plenty of times, it would indicate what people in each community really wanted to get behind. Plus, local workers that are invested in their community can provide the needed services far more efficiently than the govt can. And of course, to your point, when you are forced to give, it's not giving. In other words, the gift without the giver is bare.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Exactly. Of course it's important to have savings for emergencies, but I don't want to be so focused on saving that I deny myself the events that make life worth living: football games, concerts, vacations, etc. I could die tomorrow for crying out loud.

My mom and dad are the type that are so hell bent on saving money that they live a far more meager lifestyle than they could. I know their finances and I know what they're capable of. But they act like they live on a fixed income for some weird reason. My dad is the gatekeeper there and when asked, he always says something ridiculous like, "well, you never know what might happen. What if your mom or I got really sick and needed that money to take care of us?" And I guess I get that. But what good is living if you aren't living?

 

[gunslingerdick]

Absolutely. I would add to that "keeping up with the Joneses" and the constant bombardment of advertising to which we're exposed. Recipe for disaster if you lack financial discipline.

And keeping up with Joneses is worse in this day and time than ever before because of social media. Before, the only Joneses anyone ever cared to keep up with were the people you lived around - people in sight. Now social media has made everyone "in sight". So some people see these extravagant lifestyles that their old high school buddies are living and they want the same only they're living on two hourly wage incomes. But they'll be damned if they cannot show some pics on facebook of some ridiculous Disney vacation they took.

 

[Raising Heel]

The bottom line is the program allows people who do have a job to have a choice whether to work and pay for their health insurance or stay at home and let the taxpayers pay for it.

Sure, but it's probably not a choice for most people. I'm guessing most people would rather work as much as possible, at the highest rate of pay attainable, so they have more money in their pockets. The example you're citing is two people who are comfortable living off less than their maximum potential who are now intentionally working a loophole in the system.

How do you propose fixing this or other income-based programs? That's an honest question. There was a study done in 2013 that showed you were better off collecting welfare than working a minimum-wage job in 35 states. That study notes that there were 126 distinct federal means-tested anti-poverty programs in force at the time it was written. Wow.

 

[Archer2]

How do you propose fixing this or other income-based programs? That's an honest question. There was a study done in 2013 that showed you were better off collecting welfare than working a minimum-wage job in 35 states. That study notes that there were 126 distinct federal means-tested anti-poverty programs in force at the time it was written. Wow.

And therein lies the crux of the problem. To make matters worse, one in five nuclear families had no bread winner in 2015. Think about that for a minute, 20% of the families had no one gainfully employed. I think Ben said it best.

“I am for doing good to the poor, but I differ in opinion of the means. I think the best way of doing good to the poor, is not making them easy in poverty, but leading or driving them out of it. In my youth I travelled much, and I observed in different countries, that the more public provisions were made for the poor, the less they provided for themselves, and of course became poorer. And, on the contrary, the less was done for them, the more they did for themselves, and became richer.”
― Benjamin Franklin, 1766

 

[jerryusc]

Not joking. It was extremely tough and stressful, but the whole time I kept trying to use it as a way to build character and a work ethic. I actually didn't know I was going to graduate from UNCW until the actual day of graduation. My guidance counselor told me in my junior year that I might as well just pack my bags and head home and not even waste my time going to class b/c there was no way I would meet the minimum GPA level needed to proceed to my senior year.

I actually get embarrassed even writing this small snippet on here b/c I don't EVER want any accolades or acknowledgement. So many people have it far worse and are fighting through it. I'm just trying to be a good example for my family teach my kids to be humble, thankful, selfless, and good Christians.

Your hard schedule must have interfered with your study time as you certainly don't come across as stupid. It's nice to meet someone who has had to work so hard to get ahead. Our country needs about 200 million more like you.

 

[UNC71-00]

The average American family is $132K in debt, with $15K of it in credit cards! In other words, we live in a debtor society and have for the last 40-50 years. Fifty years ago, the only time most people borrowed money was to buy a house or possibly a car. Everything else they saved for and paid cash. The advent of credit cards certainly hasn't helped people spend responsibly, nor has the era of instant gratification.

Your assumption is that people use credit cards for frivoulos things. There are plenty who use them just to pay bills for food, clothing, shelter and unavoidable expenses.

 

[coryfly]

My mom and dad are the type that are so hell bent on saving money that they live a far more meager lifestyle than they could. I know their finances and I know what they're capable of. But they act like they live on a fixed income for some weird reason. My dad is the gatekeeper there and when asked, he always says something ridiculous like, "well, you never know what might happen. What if your mom or I got really sick and needed that money to take care of us?" And I guess I get that. But what good is living if you aren't living?

My parents are the same way. House and vehicles paid off. Refuse to pay anything unless they can pay cash for it. My dad just retired and will just garden all the time now. They have money and no bills. Yet when I ask my dad what he wants for his birthday he will say something like, 'Well, that old water hose has all sorts of holes in it I've ducktaped up. I could use that I guess'. Just go buy a darn water hose.

 

[prlyles]

My parents are the same way. House and vehicles paid off. Refuse to pay anything unless they can pay cash for it. My dad just retired and will just garden all the time now. They have money and no bills. Yet when I ask my dad what he wants for his birthday he will say something like, 'Well, that old water hose has all sorts of holes in it I've ducktaped up. I could use that I guess'. Just go buy a darn water hose.

I can relate to this, as a parent the last thing you want is your kids spending money on you.

 

[coryfly]

I can relate to this, as a parent the last thing you want is your kids spending money on you.

Oh yeah, I get that part of it. Heck, I usually tell my wife not to get me much of anything for me for birthdays or anything else. I only really want golf stuff anyway and she would never get what I needed. It is just the point that he could just go buy a new water hose instead of waiting until it is virtually useless to replace and asking for that as a gift. Actually, since my dad is a huge Vol fan I just pay for him a monthly subscription to Volquest and that takes care of birthday and Father's Day because he enjoys it so much that is all he wants.

 

[prlyles]

Oh yeah, I get that part of it. Heck, I usually tell my wife not to get me much of anything for me for birthdays or anything else. I only really want golf stuff anyway and she would never get what I needed. It is just the point that he could just go buy a new water hose instead of waiting until it is virtually useless to replace and asking for that as a gift. Actually, since my dad is a huge Vol fan I just pay for him a monthly subscription to Volquest and that takes care of birthday and Father's Day because he enjoys it so much that is all he wants.

He doesn't buy one for himself so he can have something to tell you that he needs that is cheap.....lol

 

[Archer2]

Your assumption is that people use credit cards for frivoulos things. There are plenty who use them just to pay bills for food, clothing, shelter and unavoidable expenses.

I'm not assuming anything. I'm sure there are people "who use them just to pay bills for food, clothing, shelter and unavoidable expenses." I've done the same thing on numerous occasions. But I'd also be willing to bet that necessary expenses represent a relatively small percentage of the average credit card debt and that the majority is for unnecessary things such as a new phone, flat screen TV, clothes that aren't need but are desired, etc...

People have become used to living in debt and don't think twice about accruing even more debt to have something they desire. I read a study a while back that said 80% of Americans routinely live beyond their means, regardless of income level. If they make $20K, they live like they make $30K. If they make $200K, they live like they make $275K, etc... It's the new norm. Thank God, my parents taught me better. I make a very modest living and force myself to live within constraints. I have the basic necessities of life and not much more but I'm not in debt either. This, despite having to pay $50K in medical bills over the last 20 years.

The key is differentiating between what is necessary and what is simply desired. I don't think Americans in general can make this distinction anymore.

 

[prlyles]

Credit cards are great as long as you don't use them for credit.

 

[Archer2]

Credit cards are great as long as you don't use them for credit.

Or at least only for very short periods of time. They serve a valuable purpose but are fool's gold if misused. Like many, I got one in college and ran up $2K in debt that took me five years to pay off. That was a very valuable lesson, one which shapes my decisions to this day.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Amen brother. My younger son is going to kindergarten this year. At a private school. And it's going to save us money. Yep, that's right. I paid more for my son's daycare over the past 4 years than I will for his private school education over the next 6 years. I was paying $170 per week to his daycare and I'll be paying roughly $1250 per month for two kids to go to school. Now, granted his daycare was the bees knees. It was an "early learning center" that had all kinds of accreditations and whatnot and I could have found somewhere cheaper. And private school cost goes up when they hit middle school. But it's still crazy to think that daycare cost is so high.

GSD is the like the poster child for how cool kids in their 20s turn into lame dads in their 40s.

 

[DSouthr]

Sure, but it's probably not a choice for most people. I'm guessing most people would rather work as much as possible, at the highest rate of pay attainable, so they have more money in their pockets. The example you're citing is two people who are comfortable living off less than their maximum potential who are now intentionally working a loophole in the system.

How do you propose fixing this or other income-based programs? That's an honest question. There was a study done in 2013 that showed you were better off collecting welfare than working a minimum-wage job in 35 states. That study notes that there were 126 distinct federal means-tested anti-poverty programs in force at the time it was written. Wow.

It is a multi-faceted problem that has to be fixed in steps. First we have to bring back jobs that have been shipped out of this country, good paying manufacturing jobs where people are not having to depend on minimum wage to support their families. We need available education, especially in lower income areas that is just as high in quality as you can find anywhere else.

Next, unless someone is disabled or elderly, if there are jobs for them to be able to obtain then the choice to stay home and get paid or go to work and get paid has to go away. There has to be a time limit on how long folks receive government checks and there has to be excessive assistance for them to be able to make such a transition well within a reasonable time frame.

Child care and healthcare costs are a real problem. It isn't just the income but you have to as well look at the cost of going to work for that family. So why not put in place either a federal or state by state FREE child care or at least minimal cost depending on your income level. Of course, most of the manufacturing type of jobs would provide healthcare costs for the employee and their family but the jobs have to be available. You could transition folks from receiving monthly checks from the government to being the child care workers. Paying in taxes as opposed to draining them away.

If the jobs are available and there is a time frame placed on how long someone can receive government checks for those that are neither disabled or elderly, and costs of childcare and healthcare are covered, there is no more reason for the government to pay them each month to stay home. And if the money stops and there are available jobs then people will go to work.

 

[JuleZ '02 HEEL]

GSD is the like the poster child for how cool kids in their 20s turn into lame dads in their 40s.

What makes you think GSD was ever cool?

 

[TarHeelNation11]

What makes you think GSD was ever cool?

Based purely on his own stories. So.....yep, you're right.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Credit cards are great as long as you don't use them for credit.

Very true. My cashback/rewards points game is top notch. They're the main reason I use credit cards, to get the free travel and/or cashback, and I pay the full balance off monthly when due.

Haven't paid a dime in interest and I've put probably 95% of my spend on credit cards since I graduated college (100% of my legal spend ).