Inside the mess...

[gary-7]

Many of you probably remember me posting a lot of stuff that was going down inside and around the team back when Brice/Meeks/JB/Theo were here. I was fortunate enough to have pretty direct channels into that crew and shared what I could without compromising sources. However, once we got our Natty in 17, I decided to step back a bit and just pass along what came my way via my normal conversations without such deep dives, because frankly that gets exhausting.

I kept to that until a few days ago when I got wind of what was about to go down (that we're now living thru). And Lordy, I almost wish I hadn't, as I dove into what became a damn fire hose of info, as well as a can o' worms. I'm not exaggerating that I could fill up 4-5 pages from what I've picked up just over the last 36 hours or so --- including internal stuff in near real time.

Out of discretion I'm not gonna do that, but I promised to post something, so I'll just lay down some bullet points as to the whys and whats of Eliot's situation. Before I do that, please do not come ITT with a bunch of nonsense disparaging his abilities, because frankly that's just silly. There's a reason big-time programs are already looking to snatch him up like a jelly donut at Fat Camp (and y'all probably won't like who's at the top of his list).

So...
- On that last note, don't blame this on poaching, which as I said, is a quaint concept. Agents for guys who aren't even in the Portal yet have been in touch with UNC, just like Eliot's agent has been in touch with other schools.

- More to the point, this is in NO WAY about money. Eliot is well-compensated and the GM, et al, prepared a quite satisfactory package for his return. Also, in no way did the staff want him to move on (no matter how it might get spun later on) --- that would've constituted malpractice, so at least we can't blame them on that part.

- With that said, it's probably safe to say the staff got caught off-guard as to the extent of frustration in his camp (EC/family/agent). The main sources of the frustration? --- the clunkiness of the offensive system and how he was being restricted from playing his game.

- Here lies the most frustrating part for me, as it turns out that literally everything I've been telling y'all for 2 seasons has been true, as to the confidence-killing effects of EC being first mishandled by not starting from game-1, then being told only to shoot in cetain circumstances --- including not letting him create pull-ups for himself unless it was at he end of the shot-clock --- and only at the end of this season allowing him to run more freelance without incessant micromanaging. Here's where I hate being right, because I'd much rather have my damn PG.

- As I have said before, sure, he has room for mechanical improvement, but you didn't see Eliot short-arming mid-range shots or hesitating on 3s in HS/EYBL --- and it's not about level of competition, it's about CONFIDENCE instilled by his coach. And look, no coach has to worry about EC being selfish as a scorer --- he's an Assist machine --- but he needs to be able to choose his scoring spots to open things up.

- speaking of that, one of the family's sources of frustration (and mine) is why UNC can't manage to hire a competent stat person who knows how to assess a damned Assist. I told y'all that was a problem. Just for example, in the NCAAT, he got properly credited with 20 dimes in 2 games. Well, the sad reality is he MIGHT have been given credit for 15 of those if it was in Chapel Hill. Hell, if you just add the ones he was shorted at home this season, he easily leads the ACC in Assists (and makes his TO Ratio more realistic). This stuff MATTERS, especially to a pass-first PG, shorting him dimes is like subtracting points from another player's scoring average.

- anyway, yeah, I started digging deeper when I got wind that Eliot and his camp were leaning toward leaving unless Hubert talked him out of it. Make no mistake, Eliot loves UNC (which is why he returned after a frustrating Freshman season) and loves his teammates, and was truly torn apart over this decision right up to his meeting with Hubert. As I understand it though, that did not go well, as Hubert's stubborness over his system, etc made it clear the needed changes weren't in the offing.

- BTW, there has been a disparity of perception (as to what's been going on) between less-recent alums and more recent/current guys who have actually been part of the program under this staff. For guys like Ray who have been critical of Eliot and/or other players, well... I would gently remind them that they didn't have to play under this offensive mess.

- also, I don't know how this will effect Caleb Wiison --- I'm sure it won't help, but it is unclear if it will ulimately cost us. I've asked around down here and haven't gotten a straight answer as of yet.

Finally, look, this is not put here to argue about --- I'm simply relaying some info as it was relayed to me (as much as I hate all of this). And again, no matter how it may get spun, this stuff originated from very close sources, up to and including the proverbial horse's mouth. Draw whatever conclusion you'd like as to what it may mean for the state of the program moving forward.

 

[Oak ridger]

Many of you probably remember me posting a lot of stuff that was going down inside and around the team back when Brice/Meeks/JB/Theo were here. I was fortunate enough to have pretty direct channels into that crew and shared what I could without compromising sources. However, once we got our Natty in 17, I decided to step back a bit and just pass along what came my way via my normal conversations without such deep dives, because frankly that gets exhausting.

I kept to that until a few days ago when I got wind of what was about to go down (that we're now living thru). And Lordy, I almost wish I hadn't, as I dove into what became a damn fire hose of info, as well as a can o' worms. I'm not exaggerating that I could fill up 4-5 pages from what I've picked up just over the last 36 hours or so --- including internal stuff in near real time.

Out of discretion I'm not gonna do that, but I promised to post something, so I'll just lay down some bullet points as to the whys and whats of Eliot's situation. Before I do that, please do not come ITT with a bunch of nonsense disparaging his abilities, because frankly that's just silly. There's a reason big-time programs are already looking to snatch him up like a jelly donut at Fat Camp (and y'all probably won't like who's at the top of his list).

So...
- On that last note, don't blame this on poaching, which as I said, is a quaint concept. Agents for guys who aren't even in the Portal yet have been in touch with UNC, just like Eliot's agent has been in touch with other schools.

- More to the point, this is in NO WAY about money. Eliot is well-compensated and the GM, et al, prepared a quite satisfactory package for his return. Also, in no way did the staff want him to move on (no matter how it might get spun later on) --- that would've constituted malpractice, so at least we can't blame them on that part.

- With that said, it's probably safe to say the staff got caught off-guard as to the extent of frustration in his camp (EC/family/agent). The main sources of the frustration? --- the clunkiness of the offensive system and how he was being restricted from playing his game.

- Here lies the most frustrating part for me, as it turns out that literally everything I've been telling y'all for 2 seasons has been true, as to the confidence-killing effects of EC being first mishandled by not starting from game-1, then being told only to shoot in cetain circumstances --- including not letting him create pull-ups for himself unless it was at he end of the shot-clock --- and only at the end of this season allowing him to run more freelance without incessant micromanaging. Here's where I hate being right, because I'd much rather have my damn PG.

- As I have said before, sure, he has room for mechanical improvement, but you didn't see Eliot short-arming mid-range shots or hesitating on 3s in HS/EYBL --- and it's not about level of competition, it's about CONFIDENCE instilled by his coach. And look, no coach has to worry about EC being selfish as a scorer --- he's an Assist machine --- but he needs to be able to choose his scoring spots to open things up.

- speaking of that, one of the family's sources of frustration (and mine) is why UNC can't manage to hire a competent stat person who knows how to assess a damned Assist. I told y'all that was a problem. Just for example, in the NCAAT, he got properly credited with 20 dimes in 2 games. Well, the sad reality is he MIGHT have been given credit for 15 of those if it was in Chapel Hill. Hell, if you just add the ones he was shorted at home this season, he easily leads the ACC in Assists (and makes his TO Ratio more realistic). This stuff MATTERS, especially to a pass-first PG, shorting him dimes is like subtracting points from another player's scoring average.

- anyway, yeah, I started digging deeper when I got wind that Eliot and his camp were leaning toward leaving unless Hubert talked him out of it. Make no mistake, Eliot loves UNC (which is why he returned after a frustrating Freshman season) and loves his teammates, and was truly torn apart over this decision right up to his meeting with Hubert. As I understand it though, that did not go well, as Hubert's stubborness over his system, etc made it clear the needed changes weren't in the offing.

- BTW, there has been a disparity of perception (as to what's been going on) between less-recent alums and more recent/current guys who have actually been part of the program under this staff. For guys like Ray who have been critical of Eliot and/or other players, well... I would gently remind them that they didn't have to play under this offensive mess.

- also, I don't know how this will effect Caleb Wiison --- I'm sure it won't help, but it is unclear if it will ulimately cost us. I've asked around down here and haven't gotten a straight answer as of yet.

Finally, look, this is not put here to argue about --- I'm simply relaying some info as it was relayed to me (as much as I hate all of this). And again, no matter how it may get spun, this stuff originated from very close sources, up to and including the proverbial horse's mouth. Draw whatever conclusion you'd like as to what it may mean for the state of the program moving forward.

Thanks for all you do.

 

[sctarheel30]

I for one really appreciate the info that you share and feel free to share any and all you wish. It helps people like me who have zero inside knowledge/info or contacts to somewhat better understand what’s going on with the program that we love. I just hope the possible landing spot for EC isn’t 8 miles down the road. That’s all we really need is for him to make a complete rebuild and burns at least twice a year. So if I’m understanding some of what you’re saying is a lot of the BS within the program the fault of the leader and staff? If so it’s time to make some hard decisions and get this corrected. I hate to lose a player or coach especially one of our own but sometimes things just have to be done. If EC is being held back I don’t really understand why any half competent coach would do such a stupid thing. Once again thanks for the intel and hopefully this sh**show will fixed. Does this incompetence go all the way to the top (bubba)? Keep sharing.

 

[gkss]

Many of you probably remember me posting a lot of stuff that was going down inside and around the team back when Brice/Meeks/JB/Theo were here. I was fortunate enough to have pretty direct channels into that crew and shared what I could without compromising sources. However, once we got our Natty in 17, I decided to step back a bit and just pass along what came my way via my normal conversations without such deep dives, because frankly that gets exhausting.

I kept to that until a few days ago when I got wind of what was about to go down (that we're now living thru). And Lordy, I almost wish I hadn't, as I dove into what became a damn fire hose of info, as well as a can o' worms. I'm not exaggerating that I could fill up 4-5 pages from what I've picked up just over the last 36 hours or so --- including internal stuff in near real time.

Out of discretion I'm not gonna do that, but I promised to post something, so I'll just lay down some bullet points as to the whys and whats of Eliot's situation. Before I do that, please do not come ITT with a bunch of nonsense disparaging his abilities, because frankly that's just silly. There's a reason big-time programs are already looking to snatch him up like a jelly donut at Fat Camp (and y'all probably won't like who's at the top of his list).

So...
- On that last note, don't blame this on poaching, which as I said, is a quaint concept. Agents for guys who aren't even in the Portal yet have been in touch with UNC, just like Eliot's agent has been in touch with other schools.

- More to the point, this is in NO WAY about money. Eliot is well-compensated and the GM, et al, prepared a quite satisfactory package for his return. Also, in no way did the staff want him to move on (no matter how it might get spun later on) --- that would've constituted malpractice, so at least we can't blame them on that part.

- With that said, it's probably safe to say the staff got caught off-guard as to the extent of frustration in his camp (EC/family/agent). The main sources of the frustration? --- the clunkiness of the offensive system and how he was being restricted from playing his game.

- Here lies the most frustrating part for me, as it turns out that literally everything I've been telling y'all for 2 seasons has been true, as to the confidence-killing effects of EC being first mishandled by not starting from game-1, then being told only to shoot in cetain circumstances --- including not letting him create pull-ups for himself unless it was at he end of the shot-clock --- and only at the end of this season allowing him to run more freelance without incessant micromanaging. Here's where I hate being right, because I'd much rather have my damn PG.

- As I have said before, sure, he has room for mechanical improvement, but you didn't see Eliot short-arming mid-range shots or hesitating on 3s in HS/EYBL --- and it's not about level of competition, it's about CONFIDENCE instilled by his coach. And look, no coach has to worry about EC being selfish as a scorer --- he's an Assist machine --- but he needs to be able to choose his scoring spots to open things up.

- speaking of that, one of the family's sources of frustration (and mine) is why UNC can't manage to hire a competent stat person who knows how to assess a damned Assist. I told y'all that was a problem. Just for example, in the NCAAT, he got properly credited with 20 dimes in 2 games. Well, the sad reality is he MIGHT have been given credit for 15 of those if it was in Chapel Hill. Hell, if you just add the ones he was shorted at home this season, he easily leads the ACC in Assists (and makes his TO Ratio more realistic). This stuff MATTERS, especially to a pass-first PG, shorting him dimes is like subtracting points from another player's scoring average.

- anyway, yeah, I started digging deeper when I got wind that Eliot and his camp were leaning toward leaving unless Hubert talked him out of it. Make no mistake, Eliot loves UNC (which is why he returned after a frustrating Freshman season) and loves his teammates, and was truly torn apart over this decision right up to his meeting with Hubert. As I understand it though, that did not go well, as Hubert's stubborness over his system, etc made it clear the needed changes weren't in the offing.

- BTW, there has been a disparity of perception (as to what's been going on) between less-recent alums and more recent/current guys who have actually been part of the program under this staff. For guys like Ray who have been critical of Eliot and/or other players, well... I would gently remind them that they didn't have to play under this offensive mess.

- also, I don't know how this will effect Caleb Wiison --- I'm sure it won't help, but it is unclear if it will ulimately cost us. I've asked around down here and haven't gotten a straight answer as of yet.

Finally, look, this is not put here to argue about --- I'm simply relaying some info as it was relayed to me (as much as I hate all of this). And again, no matter how it may get spun, this stuff originated from very close sources, up to and including the proverbial horse's mouth. Draw whatever conclusion you'd like as to what it may mean for the state of the program moving forward.

Thanks for the info.

 

[CrazyHeel]

We can't get rid of Hubert fast enough.

 

[Lewis&Miller]

This departure is a wow moment. As far as Elliott demeanor on the court(just from the couch), things looked ok but it was definitely known the mom was unhappy which obviously can indicate player displeasure. I saw where this site and TOS were indicating they were not shocked by this move, it was somewhat of a mutual agreement. If I had a dollar for all the media heads who were not shocked(by a shocking event), well you know....

To me, Elliott received unjust criticism because it is impossible to run this so called offense with less than 3/4 turnovers per game. The offense does not have enough structure. He made the best of the limited sets. Elliotts departure is a scapegoat for this offensive system. I am not too sure that this departure does not signal the need for an immediate decision by the AD. Who actually believes Hubert can take a completely new PG and have him lead a completely new team to a better record than 22-14? Hubert for 2 seasons tried the combo guard lineup with RJ/Love leading and now he has had 2 years with an elite 5 star PG( you cannot ask for a better talent). The program is in disorder.

 

[39 Feet Above Sea Level]

Gary, thanks for the information, it sucks to see our program in such disarray. 🤨
No point waxing nostalgic over the good ole days, that seems like ancient
history at this point.
I’ll wait to see who’s wearing Carolina blue next November and pull for ‘em
just like always.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Thanks for the update Gary, a very sad state for the program and one which may not be rectified for some time.

 

[Kool1234567]

So in other words it’s everyone’s fault but EC….Good Riddance….He needs to grow up and look in the mirror….Also it’s said his family was upset how he was talked about on Social Media….Are you kidding me…You are 21 years old making over or close to a million dollars and getting a free education from 1 of the best Universities in the Nation…

 

[imajericho]

Why were they caught off guard if it was pretty much known he was leaving for over 3 months now?

On premium, they even said to not expect Cadeau to be back.

That said, if he is leaving for among his reasons "not starting day 1" and because "he wasn't getting enough stats recorded" then that's kinda a character issue tbqh. Those are sorta silly issues.

He is leaving because he feels he is better than he showed here and thinks transferring will show it, and because his mother has conflict with the unc fanbase.

 

[slothrop8]

Appreciate the info. I'll say one thing and one thing only and then I'll move along. While this offense is not perfect by any means, one thing it definitely did not need is Elliott Cadeau creating and taking more pull up jumpers. I'm sorry to see him go and if he shows drastically improved shooting at his next stop, we'll have missed out, but I'll need to see it first.

 

[Kool1234567]

Why were they caught off guard if it was pretty much known he was leaving for over 3 months now?

On premium, they even said to not expect Cadeau to be back.

That said, if he is leaving for among his reasons "not starting day 1" and because "he wasn't getting enough stats recorded" then that's kinda a character issue tbqh. Those are sorta silly issues.

He is leaving because he feels he is better than he showed here and thinks transferring will show it, and because his mother has conflict with the unc fanbase.

Exactly….My thing is the family is upset over Social Media post from fans…Yet his family is all over Social Media pumping him up when he played well but when he didn’t it’s the coaches fault….They want it both ways…All the good and no bad….That is a dream world that many live in nowadays….

 

[gunslingerdick]

Exactly….My thing is the family is upset over Social Media post from fans…Yet his family is all over Social Media pumping him up when he played well but when he didn’t it’s the coaches fault….They want it both ways…All the good and no bad….That is a dream world that many live in nowadays….

I can’t with sports moms (or dads - I’m looking at you Dennis!) on social media. Basically, I think less of you if you stay posting on social media. If you had your child’s best interest at heart, you would handle uncomfortable things behind closed doors and not air your dirty laundry for all to see instead of painting yourself (and by extension, your child) as a narcissist and attention seeker. Trying to make a big splash on social media is what low class individuals do.

I’m a proud parent too. Celebrating your child on social media is fine. Be discreet. Be mindful. Be minimal. Don’t make it about you.

 

[heels05champs]

My concerns over this staff which started Day 1 they were hired continue…

 

[Bubspub88]

I was speaking with a dook friend back in January and he said he wished they had Cadeau. I told him if they did dook would be undefeated. The Maluch kid would have to ice his wrists after every game from the alley oop dunks he'd get. All those shooters to space the floor and EC's driving ability would be scary. They would not be as physically dominant but all that size would cover for Cadeau's lack of height and their offense would not be fair.

This roster construction was just bad, and that falls on the staff. However, effort and focus was lacking all throughout the season, and that is on the players. I posted in other threads when that podcast came out I did not like the optics. The Carolina way is those former players doing what they can to make the current team the best they can be.

 

[dadika13]

lol

 

[RP12]

Gary, appreciate you sharing what you hear and what you think. This one stings for me more than any transfer/early departure since at least Marshall, maybe back to VC/Jamison.

I've been wondering about HD's mindset and demeanor for a few months. For all the "nicest guy in the world" stuff it's felt most of the season like he was showing an inability to handle the pressure and fell into control freak mode. Obviously for the midwits I understand the coach has to be in control but I think we saw more emotional outbursts and erratic behavior/roster usage than is acceptable. I get that fans who are also frustrated may support a coach getting upset but what he is saying to them matters. AJ mentioned in a recent game HD going off on the team for seemingly no apparent reason. And while folks laughed at Roy for constantly taking blame, HD seems to go the other way too much for my taste. I can't recall him saying much in support of EC in particular and again this stuff matters and he had plenty of opportunities. I'd love to have some insight into who Hubert really is under pressure behind the curtain.

 

[Old_School59]

Hubert Davis has to GO! He is wrecking a great program because he never learned how to be a head coach, anywhere. Elliot has a ton of potential and apparently Davis doesn’t have a clue how to get it from him. Sad how far this program has fallen, and it falls on Bubba, Roy, and Davis!

 

[_B5]

The offense is trash… he can’t coach, and he’s soft. He only recruits kids he believes are coachable(system kids).

 

[NathanFielder]

Talented kid. With a better coach, I'm sure he'll have a monster year. For this particular coach, I think you need a more finished product, especially at that position. I think this season's problem was more the inconsistent pieces around Cadeau than anything else. Unless you're a true generational pass-first PG, you need the roster built a certain way around you. Cadeau didn't have that around him. He may have if Tyson wasn't a 0 and Washington was a true C1 like the staff thought he was. If you got the projected shooting out of Tyson and Washington and supplemented that with the role players just having to play their roles... I think this could've been better this past year. They weren't going to be a Final Four team because they wouldn't be good enough defensively, but they'd be better. Once Tyson was a 0 and Washington proved to be what he was, that changed everything and really hurt Cadeau. He isn't a good enough scorer to be able to work over such roster limitations. He needs much more around him. So it was a bad fit all around this past season.

I read what his brother said on his Twitch stream (what a world we live in). My takeaways on his points.

- General talk about "farm hate." Look, this is the reality of today's college basketball world. I'm assuming Elliot Cadeau was paid well to play at UNC and he will be paid well to play elsewhere. The relationships between players and fans becomes much more transactional once money that is publicly revelared gets involved. Maybe his next stop is a utopian paradise where fans won't criticize bad performances. But if you accept the money, you need to be open to taking criticism. How much? I don't have the right answer to that.

- The lack of confidence coaches have in him shooting the ball as a freshman can go both ways IMO. I do think it's important to let young players work through struggles. I thought Cadeau got plenty of PT as a freshman so I don't fully agree with this being a one sided argument. The other factor was Hubert was coaching for his job during Cadeau's freshman year. He wasn't going to be lenient to a 20% 3PT shooter when there's no guarantee that some more confidence meant that Cadeau was going to shoot better.

- Floater comment was interesting. I didn't think Cadeau had a floater game. But if this is true that the coaches don't like that shot, than that's bad on the coaches. Small guards need those shots to finish over bigger forwards. I also am skeptical about the criticism. RJ shoots a lot of floaters. Maybe he has more freedom than Cadeau does. But I've never really heard of a coach be "anti-floater." That makes no sense from a coaching standpoint unless you don't want your guards shooting the ball inside the paint, which makes no sense.

- I don't like mid-range jumpers either. And most coaches today don't like them either. And the NBA especially doesn't like it.

With most things like this, the commentary is going to be massively skewed one way or the other. In this case, Hubert probably isn't going to publicly say anything about why he made the decision, and I find that his camp and program are pretty tight lipped. So we're going to get a lot of pro-Cadeau narrative and arguments here. Not saying it isn't valid.

Maybe I'm old school, but I see more finger pointing than pointing to the mirror. To blame Hubert for getting benched for shooting 18% from 3 is certainly a choice if that's the case. How about.... Don't shoot 18% from 3?



Transcript:
"I can't really speak on Elliot's side of things, that's for him to speak on. But I can tell y'all, you know, why me and people close to me thought that, you know, he should no longer stay at that school.

First off, the first thing I wanna say, Elliot did not ask anyone for $2 million. If you think Elliot care about money, you're stupid. There's a rumor going around that he asked for 2 million from UNC. He did not ask that. It's so obvious that this is a rumor just to farm hate and have a cop out for Elliot leaving.

People are just trying to farm hate on Elliot. Oh, he's not worth two mil. You know what I'm saying? He never asked for that. Okay. I want y'all to know that the system just, I don't think it fit Elliot. Elliot came up to school a year earlier than he should have. This should have been his first year this year, but he came up early because he felt like he was ready.

He didn't really have anything left to prove in high school, you know? Elliot came up to a team that didn't really have a spot for him. You know what I mean? The one thing people could say about his freshman year was he wasn't shooting (the basketball) well. I'll say, you know, as a brother, the coaches just didn't have much belief in Elliot.

You know, like it was at the point, you know, Elliot's shooting in a game. He missed a shot and coach taking him right out. If he missed, you know what that does to a kid's confidence, especially a freshman, a young kid coming in looking to earn a spot, not really knowing what his role is. He's shooting the ball, he would miss and he'd automatically be out of the game.

I don't know if y'all realized that when he played. That kills your confidence as a player, which I think to do as a coach is crazy 'cause he never had that problem. The UNC system I just think wasn't for Elliot. I don't know if y'all watch, but at UNC, they don't shoot midranges. The coaches think a midrange is a bad shot, which was one of Elliot's best shots.

If you watch a UNC game, they barely put up mid ranges because they think it's a bad shot. On top of that, they also think floaters are bad shots. So that's why Elliot kind of like, you know, was rim rushing a lot because if they shoot a floater or a two, it's a bad take.

They gonna take you out game. So, but that's their system. You know, it might work for other players, it might work for their program. But I don't think for Elliot, that's the best play style, you know what I'm saying? So being limited to not being able to do that, I feel like I kind of messed with 'em. I throughout that season."

 

[gosburn]

I have zero insights to the UNC program but do have eyes and a normal IQ. If anyone was surprised at Cadeau leaving they are not watching. His mother told everyone on X. Cadeau looked miserable most of the time. This Hubert Davis 4 year period is not very good.

 

[Old_School59]

I have zero insights to the UNC program but do have eyes and a normal IQ. If anyone was surprised at Cadeau leaving they are not watching. His mother told everyone on X. Cadeau looked miserable most of the time. This Hubert Davis 4 year period is not very good.

Can Hubert hit the portal? How many teams would be bidding for his services as a HC? I highly doubt any would.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

How much is Hubert's buy out?

 

[notashelbyfan]

This is 100% on coaching, and it's a catch 22. They can't change their system everytime a player wants something different but yet their system sucks, so what do you do?

There isn't one fiber in me that thinks that the statistician has anything to do with this move.

 

[sctarheel30]

Talented kid. With a better coach, I'm sure he'll have a monster year. For this particular coach, I think you need a more finished product, especially at that position. I think this season's problem was more the inconsistent pieces around Cadeau than anything else. Unless you're a true generational pass-first PG, you need the roster built a certain way around you. Cadeau didn't have that around him. He may have if Tyson wasn't a 0 and Washington was a true C1 like the staff thought he was. If you got the projected shooting out of Tyson and Washington and supplemented that with the role players just having to play their roles... I think this could've been better this past year. They weren't going to be a Final Four team because they wouldn't be good enough defensively, but they'd be better. Once Tyson was a 0 and Washington proved to be what he was, that changed everything and really hurt Cadeau. He isn't a good enough scorer to be able to work over such roster limitations. He needs much more around him. So it was a bad fit all around this past season.

I read what his brother said on his Twitch stream (what a world we live in). My takeaways on his points.

- General talk about "farm hate." Look, this is the reality of today's college basketball world. I'm assuming Elliot Cadeau was paid well to play at UNC and he will be paid well to play elsewhere. The relationships between players and fans becomes much more transactional once money that is publicly revelared gets involved. Maybe his next stop is a utopian paradise where fans won't criticize bad performances. But if you accept the money, you need to be open to taking criticism. How much? I don't have the right answer to that.

- The lack of confidence coaches have in him shooting the ball as a freshman can go both ways IMO. I do think it's important to let young players work through struggles. I thought Cadeau got plenty of PT as a freshman so I don't fully agree with this being a one sided argument. The other factor was Hubert was coaching for his job during Cadeau's freshman year. He wasn't going to be lenient to a 20% 3PT shooter when there's no guarantee that some more confidence meant that Cadeau was going to shoot better.

- Floater comment was interesting. I didn't think Cadeau had a floater game. But if this is true that the coaches don't like that shot, than that's bad on the coaches. Small guards need those shots to finish over bigger forwards. I also am skeptical about the criticism. RJ shoots a lot of floaters. Maybe he has more freedom than Cadeau does. But I've never really heard of a coach be "anti-floater." That makes no sense from a coaching standpoint unless you don't want your guards shooting the ball inside the paint, which makes no sense.

- I don't like mid-range jumpers either. And most coaches today don't like them either. And the NBA especially doesn't like it.

With most things like this, the commentary is going to be massively skewed one way or the other. In this case, Hubert probably isn't going to publicly say anything about why he made the decision, and I find that his camp and program are pretty tight lipped. So we're going to get a lot of pro-Cadeau narrative and arguments here. Not saying it isn't valid.

Maybe I'm old school, but I see more finger pointing than pointing to the mirror. To blame Hubert for getting benched for shooting 18% from 3 is certainly a choice if that's the case. How about.... Don't shoot 18% from 3?



Transcript:
"I can't really speak on Elliot's side of things, that's for him to speak on. But I can tell y'all, you know, why me and people close to me thought that, you know, he should no longer stay at that school.

First off, the first thing I wanna say, Elliot did not ask anyone for $2 million. If you think Elliot care about money, you're stupid. There's a rumor going around that he asked for 2 million from UNC. He did not ask that. It's so obvious that this is a rumor just to farm hate and have a cop out for Elliot leaving.

People are just trying to farm hate on Elliot. Oh, he's not worth two mil. You know what I'm saying? He never asked for that. Okay. I want y'all to know that the system just, I don't think it fit Elliot. Elliot came up to school a year earlier than he should have. This should have been his first year this year, but he came up early because he felt like he was ready.

He didn't really have anything left to prove in high school, you know? Elliot came up to a team that didn't really have a spot for him. You know what I mean? The one thing people could say about his freshman year was he wasn't shooting (the basketball) well. I'll say, you know, as a brother, the coaches just didn't have much belief in Elliot.

You know, like it was at the point, you know, Elliot's shooting in a game. He missed a shot and coach taking him right out. If he missed, you know what that does to a kid's confidence, especially a freshman, a young kid coming in looking to earn a spot, not really knowing what his role is. He's shooting the ball, he would miss and he'd automatically be out of the game.

I don't know if y'all realized that when he played. That kills your confidence as a player, which I think to do as a coach is crazy 'cause he never had that problem. The UNC system I just think wasn't for Elliot. I don't know if y'all watch, but at UNC, they don't shoot midranges. The coaches think a midrange is a bad shot, which was one of Elliot's best shots.

If you watch a UNC game, they barely put up mid ranges because they think it's a bad shot. On top of that, they also think floaters are bad shots. So that's why Elliot kind of like, you know, was rim rushing a lot because if they shoot a floater or a two, it's a bad take.

They gonna take you out game. So, but that's their system. You know, it might work for other players, it might work for their program. But I don't think for Elliot, that's the best play style, you know what I'm saying? So being limited to not being able to do that, I feel like I kind of messed with 'em. I throughout that season."

There’s cadeau’s side then the coaches side and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Idk what happened but if some of what his brother says is true then just wow!!

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Hubert hasn't yet earned the right to be so stubborn about his offensive scheme. He doesn't have enough skin in the game as a HC.

 

[notashelbyfan]

There’s cadeau’s side then the coaches side and somewhere in the middle is the truth. Idk what happened but if some of what his brother says is true then just wow!!

You know i don't think i recall many if any midrange jumpers this year

 

[Spaceytoyz]

You know i don't think i recall many if any midrange jumpers this year

The ball comes out of his hands like a bowling ball

 

[JovialMuse]

Man....this is so discouraging. Learning yesterday that he was entering the portal was bad enough. Hearing this just makes it so much worse. I'm definitely in the camp that under a different system/roster EC would be dominant, and unfortunately I think we're going to see how good he is playing in another jersey, which will be so painful.

I don't understand how Hubert can be so stubborn about a system that has produced 6 good months and 14 bad months of basketball in 4 seasons at North Carolina. I know not everyone is a predictive stats person, but just for reference, a composite of Hubert's four seasons in Chapel Hill ranks UNC as the 21st best team in the country (Torvik). Teams like Saint Mary's, Texas Tech, UCLA, and Illinois rank far ahead of Carolina.

We're early yet in the portal season and teams are still playing, but I do not see how we find any other PG in the portal with EC's talent/upside. And the hit and miss nature of the portal along with, quite frankly, Hubert and staff's inconsistent results within the portal, do not give me high hopes we can adequately replace the talent graduating and walking out the door.

 

[NathanFielder]

You know i don't think i recall many if any midrange jumpers this year

Per Bart Torvik, Cadeau shot 16/44 (36.4%) on 2PT shots not at the rim. Also, he did shoot 67% from the FT line. Doesn't get more mid-range than that.

 

[sctarheel30]

You know i don't think i recall many if any midrange jumpers this year

True

 

[sctarheel30]

IF EC came to a team where there was no real spot for him then do something to change that. If you have that “dog” inside you then make it so the staff can’t keep you off the floor and must play you. Especially since he had nothing left to prove in high school per the comments.

 

[dtodd4475]

Per Bart Torvik, Cadeau shot 16/44 (36.4%) on 2PT shots not at the rim. Also, he did shoot 67% from the FT line. Doesn't get more mid-range than that.

I remember last year he was placed at the free throw line against Syracuse and their zone. They dared him to shoot from there as well after he made his first few assists. He was missing those too, and stopped taking them as well.

 

[imajericho]

He came up a year early? He reclassified back to his original class. Lol

 

[gary-7]

Gary, thanks for the information, it sucks to see our program in such disarray. 🤨
No point waxing nostalgic over the good ole days, that seems like ancient
history at this point.
I’ll wait to see who’s wearing Carolina blue next November and pull for ‘em
just like always.

As will I.

Look, I'll use this space to offer a general reply to some of the comments.
First, if some folks want to play the "EC's a prima donna" card, well, go ahead if you want, but that is just not the case, and while I totally get the disgust about noisy parents, she wasn't expressing anything that wasn't there (nor is his brother).

Second, anyone saying that because of her comments during the season, that meant Eliot was already out the door, is wrong. He wanted to make it work but it just didn't.

Third, y'all know I have supported this staff, while criticizing when it seems appropriate. It's always nuanced and I'm still hoping Hubert can turn things around, but there's no escaping the fact that it needs to start with him looking in the mirror. Not just his handling of Eliot, but his often clunky offensive approach and inexplicable messing with the greatest transition scheme ever invented, is a completely self-inflicted problem.

Finally, a good bit of what's in the OP originated from players who are (or have very recently been) from this current regime. They (including Eliot) love Hubert as a person, and in some aspects as a coach, but --- and I'm obviously not gonna name names --- EC is far from the only one of them frustrated with our offensive approach. So yeah, whomever we lure here from the Portal, please Hubert, use this for a wakeup call to extract your head from wherever it has gone and reset to your roots.

 

[sctarheel30]

Talented kid. With a better coach, I'm sure he'll have a monster year. For this particular coach, I think you need a more finished product, especially at that position. I think this season's problem was more the inconsistent pieces around Cadeau than anything else. Unless you're a true generational pass-first PG, you need the roster built a certain way around you. Cadeau didn't have that around him. He may have if Tyson wasn't a 0 and Washington was a true C1 like the staff thought he was. If you got the projected shooting out of Tyson and Washington and supplemented that with the role players just having to play their roles... I think this could've been better this past year. They weren't going to be a Final Four team because they wouldn't be good enough defensively, but they'd be better. Once Tyson was a 0 and Washington proved to be what he was, that changed everything and really hurt Cadeau. He isn't a good enough scorer to be able to work over such roster limitations. He needs much more around him. So it was a bad fit all around this past season.

I read what his brother said on his Twitch stream (what a world we live in). My takeaways on his points.

- General talk about "farm hate." Look, this is the reality of today's college basketball world. I'm assuming Elliot Cadeau was paid well to play at UNC and he will be paid well to play elsewhere. The relationships between players and fans becomes much more transactional once money that is publicly revelared gets involved. Maybe his next stop is a utopian paradise where fans won't criticize bad performances. But if you accept the money, you need to be open to taking criticism. How much? I don't have the right answer to that.

- The lack of confidence coaches have in him shooting the ball as a freshman can go both ways IMO. I do think it's important to let young players work through struggles. I thought Cadeau got plenty of PT as a freshman so I don't fully agree with this being a one sided argument. The other factor was Hubert was coaching for his job during Cadeau's freshman year. He wasn't going to be lenient to a 20% 3PT shooter when there's no guarantee that some more confidence meant that Cadeau was going to shoot better.

- Floater comment was interesting. I didn't think Cadeau had a floater game. But if this is true that the coaches don't like that shot, than that's bad on the coaches. Small guards need those shots to finish over bigger forwards. I also am skeptical about the criticism. RJ shoots a lot of floaters. Maybe he has more freedom than Cadeau does. But I've never really heard of a coach be "anti-floater." That makes no sense from a coaching standpoint unless you don't want your guards shooting the ball inside the paint, which makes no sense.

- I don't like mid-range jumpers either. And most coaches today don't like them either. And the NBA especially doesn't like it.

With most things like this, the commentary is going to be massively skewed one way or the other. In this case, Hubert probably isn't going to publicly say anything about why he made the decision, and I find that his camp and program are pretty tight lipped. So we're going to get a lot of pro-Cadeau narrative and arguments here. Not saying it isn't valid.

Maybe I'm old school, but I see more finger pointing than pointing to the mirror. To blame Hubert for getting benched for shooting 18% from 3 is certainly a choice if that's the case. How about.... Don't shoot 18% from 3?



Transcript:
"I can't really speak on Elliot's side of things, that's for him to speak on. But I can tell y'all, you know, why me and people close to me thought that, you know, he should no longer stay at that school.

First off, the first thing I wanna say, Elliot did not ask anyone for $2 million. If you think Elliot care about money, you're stupid. There's a rumor going around that he asked for 2 million from UNC. He did not ask that. It's so obvious that this is a rumor just to farm hate and have a cop out for Elliot leaving.

People are just trying to farm hate on Elliot. Oh, he's not worth two mil. You know what I'm saying? He never asked for that. Okay. I want y'all to know that the system just, I don't think it fit Elliot. Elliot came up to school a year earlier than he should have. This should have been his first year this year, but he came up early because he felt like he was ready.

He didn't really have anything left to prove in high school, you know? Elliot came up to a team that didn't really have a spot for him. You know what I mean? The one thing people could say about his freshman year was he wasn't shooting (the basketball) well. I'll say, you know, as a brother, the coaches just didn't have much belief in Elliot.

You know, like it was at the point, you know, Elliot's shooting in a game. He missed a shot and coach taking him right out. If he missed, you know what that does to a kid's confidence, especially a freshman, a young kid coming in looking to earn a spot, not really knowing what his role is. He's shooting the ball, he would miss and he'd automatically be out of the game.

I don't know if y'all realized that when he played. That kills your confidence as a player, which I think to do as a coach is crazy 'cause he never had that problem. The UNC system I just think wasn't for Elliot. I don't know if y'all watch, but at UNC, they don't shoot midranges. The coaches think a midrange is a bad shot, which was one of Elliot's best shots.

If you watch a UNC game, they barely put up mid ranges because they think it's a bad shot. On top of that, they also think floaters are bad shots. So that's why Elliot kind of like, you know, was rim rushing a lot because if they shoot a floater or a two, it's a bad take.

They gonna take you out game. So, but that's their system. You know, it might work for other players, it might work for their program. But I don't think for Elliot, that's the best play style, you know what I'm saying? So being limited to not being able to do that, I feel like I kind of messed with 'em. I throughout that season."

Here’s the rest of the comments:

I feel like Elliot got a lot of unnecessary hate. They had a terrible season. Not terrible, but not a good. Season for their standard. I think there's so many people you point fingers at before the guy who's averaging nine and six. One of the nation's leaders in assists. Yes, Elliot has the most turnovers on the team, but he's the point guard.

Anyone who watches basketball knows the point guard gonna have more turnovers than anyone else. He plays on ball for 35 minutes. Um, he has the same turnover ratio as any of the top assists leaders, and he didn't even have the worst turnover ratio on the team.

And I also think it's really weird, the culture was weird. Like Midseason, the alumni are attacking Elliot saying, oh, they need a new point guard. Midseason, by the way. Grown men who graduated from the school who don't even play basketball anymore. Um, that's when I personally thought, yo, uh, he gotta get outta there."

 

[sctarheel30]

He came up a year early? He reclassified back to his original class. Lol

I didn’t realize that 🤷

 

[sctarheel30]

On a side note just because you are the point guard doesn’t give you a free pass to have 95 turnovers a game. Most point guards worth their weight in gold will treasure taking care of the ball not throwing it to the other team or up in the bleachers.

 

[gosburn]

As will I.

Look, I'll use this space to offer a general reply to some of the comments.
First, if some folks want to play the "EC's a prima donna" card, well, go ahead if you want, but that is just not the case, and while I totally get the disgust about noisy parents, she wasn't expressing anything that wasn't there (nor is his brother).

Second, anyone saying that because of her comments during the season, that meant Eliot was already out the door, is wrong. He wanted to make it work but it just didn't.

Third, y'all know I have supported this staff, while criticizing when it seems appropriate. It's always nuanced and I'm still hoping Hubert can turn things around, but there's no escaping the fact that it needs to start with him looking in the mirror. Not just his handling of Eliot, but his often clunky offensive approach and inexplicable messing with the greatest transition scheme ever invented, is a completely self-inflicted problem.

Finally, a good bit of what's in the OP originated from players who are (or have very recently been) from this current regime. They (including Eliot) love Hubert as a person, and in some aspects as a coach, but --- and I'm obviously not gonna name names --- EC is far from the only one of them frustrated with our offensive approach. So yeah, whomever we lure here from the Portal, please Hubert, use this for a wakeup call to extract your head from wherever it has gone and reset to your roots.

I appreciate your insight. Any feel on incoming players for next season? I'm hopeful that UNC has a excellent roster restructure now that restructure is here.

 

[sctarheel30]

Maybe he could be better developed and better coached in some of these areas so I guess we are back to the leadership issue with this team and that start with Hubert.