Inside the mess...

[GoNtheDistance]

and we continue to make excuses for Hubert why? He's absolutely running this program in to the ground with his incompetence.

 

[gary-7]

I appreciate your insight. Any feel on incoming players for next season? I'm hopeful that UNC has a excellent roster restructure now that restructure is here.

TBH, this junk has been exhausting so I haven't even asked very far beyond what we're all seeing here and elsewhere. I have heard there are already at least 3 or 4 guys that haven't been publicized whose agents we've had serious contact with, which is SOP before they get in the actual Portal.

All we can do now is hope, right?

 

[Kool1234567]

Looks like EC and his family got there feelings hurt by Ray on the podcast with Theo as well…Poor baby I hope Momma holds him tight…

 

[Sk1310]

View embedded media

Looks like EC and his family got there feelings hurt by Ray on the podcast with Theo as well…Poor baby I hope Momma holds him tight…

The Cadeaus are mentally weak

 

[NorCalTarheel]

Any ideas (not wild-ass guesses- heck, I can do that!) about where he's entertaining playing? I'd guess the top 5 programs as possible destinations as having the best shot (dook, Alabama, Arkansas, etc.).

I've heard St. Johns but not sure if there is more than speculation?

@gary-7 any light to shed?

 

[bluetoe]

Many of you probably remember me posting a lot of stuff that was going down inside and around the team back when Brice/Meeks/JB/Theo were here. I was fortunate enough to have pretty direct channels into that crew and shared what I could without compromising sources. However, once we got our Natty in 17, I decided to step back a bit and just pass along what came my way via my normal conversations without such deep dives, because frankly that gets exhausting.

I kept to that until a few days ago when I got wind of what was about to go down (that we're now living thru). And Lordy, I almost wish I hadn't, as I dove into what became a damn fire hose of info, as well as a can o' worms. I'm not exaggerating that I could fill up 4-5 pages from what I've picked up just over the last 36 hours or so --- including internal stuff in near real time.

Out of discretion I'm not gonna do that, but I promised to post something, so I'll just lay down some bullet points as to the whys and whats of Eliot's situation. Before I do that, please do not come ITT with a bunch of nonsense disparaging his abilities, because frankly that's just silly. There's a reason big-time programs are already looking to snatch him up like a jelly donut at Fat Camp (and y'all probably won't like who's at the top of his list).

So...
- On that last note, don't blame this on poaching, which as I said, is a quaint concept. Agents for guys who aren't even in the Portal yet have been in touch with UNC, just like Eliot's agent has been in touch with other schools.

- More to the point, this is in NO WAY about money. Eliot is well-compensated and the GM, et al, prepared a quite satisfactory package for his return. Also, in no way did the staff want him to move on (no matter how it might get spun later on) --- that would've constituted malpractice, so at least we can't blame them on that part.

- With that said, it's probably safe to say the staff got caught off-guard as to the extent of frustration in his camp (EC/family/agent). The main sources of the frustration? --- the clunkiness of the offensive system and how he was being restricted from playing his game.

- Here lies the most frustrating part for me, as it turns out that literally everything I've been telling y'all for 2 seasons has been true, as to the confidence-killing effects of EC being first mishandled by not starting from game-1, then being told only to shoot in cetain circumstances --- including not letting him create pull-ups for himself unless it was at he end of the shot-clock --- and only at the end of this season allowing him to run more freelance without incessant micromanaging. Here's where I hate being right, because I'd much rather have my damn PG.

- As I have said before, sure, he has room for mechanical improvement, but you didn't see Eliot short-arming mid-range shots or hesitating on 3s in HS/EYBL --- and it's not about level of competition, it's about CONFIDENCE instilled by his coach. And look, no coach has to worry about EC being selfish as a scorer --- he's an Assist machine --- but he needs to be able to choose his scoring spots to open things up.

- speaking of that, one of the family's sources of frustration (and mine) is why UNC can't manage to hire a competent stat person who knows how to assess a damned Assist. I told y'all that was a problem. Just for example, in the NCAAT, he got properly credited with 20 dimes in 2 games. Well, the sad reality is he MIGHT have been given credit for 15 of those if it was in Chapel Hill. Hell, if you just add the ones he was shorted at home this season, he easily leads the ACC in Assists (and makes his TO Ratio more realistic). This stuff MATTERS, especially to a pass-first PG, shorting him dimes is like subtracting points from another player's scoring average.

- anyway, yeah, I started digging deeper when I got wind that Eliot and his camp were leaning toward leaving unless Hubert talked him out of it. Make no mistake, Eliot loves UNC (which is why he returned after a frustrating Freshman season) and loves his teammates, and was truly torn apart over this decision right up to his meeting with Hubert. As I understand it though, that did not go well, as Hubert's stubborness over his system, etc made it clear the needed changes weren't in the offing.

- BTW, there has been a disparity of perception (as to what's been going on) between less-recent alums and more recent/current guys who have actually been part of the program under this staff. For guys like Ray who have been critical of Eliot and/or other players, well... I would gently remind them that they didn't have to play under this offensive mess.

- also, I don't know how this will effect Caleb Wiison --- I'm sure it won't help, but it is unclear if it will ulimately cost us. I've asked around down here and haven't gotten a straight answer as of yet.

Finally, look, this is not put here to argue about --- I'm simply relaying some info as it was relayed to me (as much as I hate all of this). And again, no matter how it may get spun, this stuff originated from very close sources, up to and including the proverbial horse's mouth. Draw whatever conclusion you'd like as to what it may mean for the state of the program moving forward.

I don't follow everything on this board as much as I probably should so excuse me if this has already been discussed, but I would love to know the rationale behind Hube's extension.

 

[gthreadgill7929]

Any ideas (not wild-ass guesses- heck, I can do that!) about where he's entertaining playing? I'd guess the top 5 programs as possible destinations as having the best shot (dook, Alabama, Arkansas, etc.).

I've heard St. Johns but not sure if there is more than speculation?

@gary-7 any light to shed?

…with 19 chains

 

[bluetoe]

Any ideas (not wild-ass guesses- heck, I can do that!) about where he's entertaining playing? I'd guess the top 5 programs as possible destinations as having the best shot (dook, Alabama, Arkansas, etc.).

I've heard St. Johns but not sure if there is more than speculation?

@gary-7 any light to shed?

I think a hint given might have been pointing toward Durham. Lord, I hope not. That would hurt my soul irreparably.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Eliot loves UNC (which is why he returned after a frustrating Freshman season) and loves his teammates, and was truly torn apart over this decision right up to his meeting with Hubert. As I understand it though, that did not go well, as Hubert's stubbornness over his system, etc made it clear the needed changes weren't in the offing.

Lots of telling points in your excellent post but I'm nominating the above as the best and most worrisome.

 

[Oak ridger]

I think a hint given might have been pointing toward Durham. Lord, I hope not. That would hurt my soul irreparably.

I heard from friends in Raleigh that he is Moo bound. But what do they know-they went to State.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

I think a hint given might have been pointing toward Durham. Lord, I hope not. That would hurt my soul irreparably.

My goodness, if they don't like what UNC fans are saying now!.....

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

- speaking of that, one of the family's sources of frustration (and mine) is why UNC can't manage to hire a competent stat person who knows how to assess a damned Assist. I told y'all that was a problem. Just for example, in the NCAAT, he got properly credited with 20 dimes in 2 games. Well, the sad reality is he MIGHT have been given credit for 15 of those if it was in Chapel Hill. Hell, if you just add the ones he was shorted at home this season, he easily leads the ACC in Assists (and makes his TO Ratio more realistic). This stuff MATTERS, especially to a pass-first PG, shorting him dimes is like subtracting points from another player's scoring average.

What's your sense about the percentage of EC's turnovers that are down to him - as opposed to bad hands, super D or whatever? I mean certainly EC owns some of his TOs but a bunch of them wouldn't have been TOs on another team.

 

[AllAboutHeels]

Many of you probably remember me posting a lot of stuff that was going down inside and around the team back when Brice/Meeks/JB/Theo were here. I was fortunate enough to have pretty direct channels into that crew and shared what I could without compromising sources. However, once we got our Natty in 17, I decided to step back a bit and just pass along what came my way via my normal conversations without such deep dives, because frankly that gets exhausting.

I kept to that until a few days ago when I got wind of what was about to go down (that we're now living thru). And Lordy, I almost wish I hadn't, as I dove into what became a damn fire hose of info, as well as a can o' worms. I'm not exaggerating that I could fill up 4-5 pages from what I've picked up just over the last 36 hours or so --- including internal stuff in near real time.

Out of discretion I'm not gonna do that, but I promised to post something, so I'll just lay down some bullet points as to the whys and whats of Eliot's situation. Before I do that, please do not come ITT with a bunch of nonsense disparaging his abilities, because frankly that's just silly. There's a reason big-time programs are already looking to snatch him up like a jelly donut at Fat Camp (and y'all probably won't like who's at the top of his list).

So...
- On that last note, don't blame this on poaching, which as I said, is a quaint concept. Agents for guys who aren't even in the Portal yet have been in touch with UNC, just like Eliot's agent has been in touch with other schools.

- More to the point, this is in NO WAY about money. Eliot is well-compensated and the GM, et al, prepared a quite satisfactory package for his return. Also, in no way did the staff want him to move on (no matter how it might get spun later on) --- that would've constituted malpractice, so at least we can't blame them on that part.

- With that said, it's probably safe to say the staff got caught off-guard as to the extent of frustration in his camp (EC/family/agent). The main sources of the frustration? --- the clunkiness of the offensive system and how he was being restricted from playing his game.

- Here lies the most frustrating part for me, as it turns out that literally everything I've been telling y'all for 2 seasons has been true, as to the confidence-killing effects of EC being first mishandled by not starting from game-1, then being told only to shoot in cetain circumstances --- including not letting him create pull-ups for himself unless it was at he end of the shot-clock --- and only at the end of this season allowing him to run more freelance without incessant micromanaging. Here's where I hate being right, because I'd much rather have my damn PG.

- As I have said before, sure, he has room for mechanical improvement, but you didn't see Eliot short-arming mid-range shots or hesitating on 3s in HS/EYBL --- and it's not about level of competition, it's about CONFIDENCE instilled by his coach. And look, no coach has to worry about EC being selfish as a scorer --- he's an Assist machine --- but he needs to be able to choose his scoring spots to open things up.

- speaking of that, one of the family's sources of frustration (and mine) is why UNC can't manage to hire a competent stat person who knows how to assess a damned Assist. I told y'all that was a problem. Just for example, in the NCAAT, he got properly credited with 20 dimes in 2 games. Well, the sad reality is he MIGHT have been given credit for 15 of those if it was in Chapel Hill. Hell, if you just add the ones he was shorted at home this season, he easily leads the ACC in Assists (and makes his TO Ratio more realistic). This stuff MATTERS, especially to a pass-first PG, shorting him dimes is like subtracting points from another player's scoring average.

- anyway, yeah, I started digging deeper when I got wind that Eliot and his camp were leaning toward leaving unless Hubert talked him out of it. Make no mistake, Eliot loves UNC (which is why he returned after a frustrating Freshman season) and loves his teammates, and was truly torn apart over this decision right up to his meeting with Hubert. As I understand it though, that did not go well, as Hubert's stubborness over his system, etc made it clear the needed changes weren't in the offing.

- BTW, there has been a disparity of perception (as to what's been going on) between less-recent alums and more recent/current guys who have actually been part of the program under this staff. For guys like Ray who have been critical of Eliot and/or other players, well... I would gently remind them that they didn't have to play under this offensive mess.

- also, I don't know how this will effect Caleb Wiison --- I'm sure it won't help, but it is unclear if it will ulimately cost us. I've asked around down here and haven't gotten a straight answer as of yet.

Finally, look, this is not put here to argue about --- I'm simply relaying some info as it was relayed to me (as much as I hate all of this). And again, no matter how it may get spun, this stuff originated from very close sources, up to and including the proverbial horse's mouth. Draw whatever conclusion you'd like as to what it may mean for the state of the program moving forward.

Gary, if I am reading it right, you do not think HD's coaching is to blame for EC exit. At present, HD's coaching is an offensive mess. I support the notion that the coaching system at UNC needs to be changed. But with HD's stubbornness, I don't see it changed unless he proves me wrong. I am on the boat the HD's tenure needs to end and better be soon. Or else, we will see the same mess year after year.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Talented kid. With a better coach, I'm sure he'll have a monster year. For this particular coach, I think you need a more finished product

This is what I've been saying lately. If the new GM, et al, deliver a team to Hubert that needs significant sorting out and development, I fear for our next season.

We're now down to these 10 guys, with probably 2-5 more departures (those in italics most likely, imo)

Dixon
Denis
Seth
Ian
Drake
Cade
Wilson
Lubin
Brown
High

Which means we have 5-8 scholarships to give out.

The catch-22 is that the more proven starters we land - which is what Hubert needs to be maximally successful - the more current players (including frosh) are likely to leave.

We live in exciting times.

 

[Bubspub88]

I think a hint given might have been pointing toward Durham. Lord, I hope not. That would hurt my soul irreparably.

Dook seems possible as Foster is more a combo than true pg and there will be more talent surrounding him. My gut feels scheyer will roll with Foster at point and Boozer backing him but who knows. That would be a BIG fu to Carolina if Cadeau were to lead the evil empire to a W in Chapel Hill next year.

UK is interesting but if he thinks UNC fans can be critical on the internet he has never met those fans. Oates and Bama hate the midrange game.

I expect he will end up at a top level program when all is said and done. I wish I could put all this on Cadeau but as others have alluded, I think it goes deeper. Has he lived up to expectations, I guess it depends on if you saw him as a generational talent or an undersized pg coming out a year early.

The college landscape is completely different than a few years ago but compare the number of players who have transferred to the number who have really developed their game under Hubert.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

@gary-7 - How would EC fit at Auburn, in your opinion?

Do they need a PG?

 

[ACokeForRoy]

As will I.

Look, I'll use this space to offer a general reply to some of the comments.
First, if some folks want to play the "EC's a prima donna" card, well, go ahead if you want, but that is just not the case, and while I totally get the disgust about noisy parents, she wasn't expressing anything that wasn't there (nor is his brother).

Second, anyone saying that because of her comments during the season, that meant Eliot was already out the door, is wrong. He wanted to make it work but it just didn't.

Third, y'all know I have supported this staff, while criticizing when it seems appropriate. It's always nuanced and I'm still hoping Hubert can turn things around, but there's no escaping the fact that it needs to start with him looking in the mirror. Not just his handling of Eliot, but his often clunky offensive approach and inexplicable messing with the greatest transition scheme ever invented, is a completely self-inflicted problem.

Finally, a good bit of what's in the OP originated from players who are (or have very recently been) from this current regime. They (including Eliot) love Hubert as a person, and in some aspects as a coach, but --- and I'm obviously not gonna name names --- EC is far from the only one of them frustrated with our offensive approach. So yeah, whomever we lure here from the Portal, please Hubert, use this for a wakeup call to extract your head from wherever it has gone and reset to your roots.

Gary is this officially a done deal? No turning back? Can't be resolved? Also, any intel on staff changes?

 

[bluetoe]

I heard from friends in Raleigh that he is Moo bound. But what do they know-they went to State.

lol, I might not put a lot of stock in that either...but who really knows.

I wouldn't like it, but I could live with it being State WAY better than I could with it being the evil empire.

 

[OneSpirit3]

Is it just me or does Hubert seem a bit arrogant? I mean, it's not like he was some great coach that saved the program!! Feels like it's quite the opposite. He may be bringing it down!

I'm concerned how Hubert's "SYSTEM" will be viewed by portal guys that may be interested in Carolina but, not really sure about the head coach!

 

[GoNtheDistance]

bingo above. Hubert is becoming unlikable by digging his heels in and staying the course. everybody in america knows he’s an awful coach but he acts like he’s won something. he hasn’t. fire his ass. another bad year sets us back another few years.

 

[gauchoheel]

You know i don't think i recall many if any midrange jumpers this year

Midrange jumpers generally ARE bad shots unless you're a really good shooter. I'd be curious to know Cadeau's shooting percentage in mid-rangers; my guess is it's not particularly high. To me, that's not really a complaint I feel Hubert is in the wrong about.

Was Cadeau surrounded by less than ideal offensive teammates this year? Absolutely. That part was a failure of the staff. But the mid-rangers thing is about unrealistic expectations from Cadeau for a top program (Kansas, Houston, Gonzaga, or dook wouldn't let him shoot mid rangers either) and I think the playing time concern is silly too. He played plenty.

 

[NathanFielder]

bingo above. Hubert is becoming unlikable by digging his heels in and staying the course. everybody in america knows he’s an awful coach but he acts like he’s won something. he hasn’t. fire his ass. another bad year sets us back another few years.

I got ripped 2 years ago for saying if Hubert isn't the right guy for the job, it's best that they have a disastrous season and they move on. Lingering is dangerous in sports. UNC responded by having a good season. Now they're back into that position. If he's not the right guy, it's best that it's another disappointing season next season. It means they'll be 2 years late, but 2 years late is better than 4+ years late, which will happen if Hubert has a similar season to 203-24.

 

[Kool1234567]

Why do people keep saying he came in early…Did he not come in with his correct class….

 

[NathanFielder]

Midrange jumpers generally ARE bad shots unless you're a really good shooter. I'd be curious to know Cadeau's shooting percentage in mid-rangers; my guess is it's not particularly high. To me, that's not really a complaint I feel Hubert is in the wrong about.

Was Cadeau surrounded by less than ideal offensive teammates this year? Absolutely. That part was a failure of the staff. But the mid-rangers thing is about unrealistic expectations from Cadeau for a top program (Kansas, Houston, Gonzaga, or dook wouldn't let him shoot mid rangers either) and I think the playing time concern is silly too. He played plenty.

Forget college. If Cadeau has visions of playing in the NBA, there's no such thing as a guard who can't shoot the 3 that is allowed to shoot mid-range jumpers.

That specific comment was nonsensical and showed a lack of basketball knowledge. If that's what Cadeau thinks, too, that does show a lack of IQ in that specific regard.

 

[_B5]

IF EC came to a team where there was no real spot for him then do something to change that. If you have that “dog” inside you then make it so the staff can’t keep you off the floor and must play you. Especially since he had nothing left to prove in high school per the comments.

That didn’t matter Roy, it doesn’t matter Hubert. Everyone remembers Dayrone sharpe and walker Kessler. Everyone with a brain between their ears knew small ball wasn’t the best line up.

 

[Spaceytoyz]

Why do people keep saying he came in early…Did he not come in with his correct class…. early but is the correct age of original class

 

[DSouthr]

Why do people keep saying he came in early…Did he not come in with his correct class….

Cadeau re-classed to come to us when he did. Many want to mitigate that by reminding that he was actually the right age for the class he came to us in. Yet still, his last season of high school ball was his Jr season and that is actually what matters in terms of eligibility as well as that level of experience prior to college.

 

[DSouthr]

I would very highly recommend everyone here to go watch a couple pod casts AJ put out yesterday, one on Cadeau and a separate one on Jalen, you may see another way to look at this. I do think the pods with George, Raymond, Theo, and JJ are informative. The former players are all about what is best for the program, if you want expert opinion you may want to listen to guys you used to cheer for, they know more about this than posters here do.

As for me, don't count me as one advocating to absolve Hubert of any responsibility for this, you have read my words all season as Hubert decisions that I did not and do not like. His usage of Cadeau, being totally honest is in no way one of those criticisms, Cadeau was given every op he just didn't live up to the expectations. I will say this with no guarantee it will happen but it very well could that if it comes together, the back court that is being worked hard right now will be an upgrade to last season's. How could it not be if we are able to snag the top rated PG in the nation along with one of the top 5 jump shooters in the nation? That is in no way a done deal, lot of work to do but UNC is working it hard.

 

[gary-7]

Any ideas (not wild-ass guesses- heck, I can do that!) about where he's entertaining playing? I'd guess the top 5 programs as possible destinations as having the best shot (dook, Alabama, Arkansas, etc.).

I've heard St. Johns but not sure if there is more than speculation?

@gary-7 any light to shed?

Part of me doesn't even want to know, TBH...
...although I did already hear of at least 3 serious suitors being considered (from that dang conference with all the football $$$ to spend), as well some new entries since the announcement. As a public service to fellow Heel faithful, I'll throw out there that Durham is not expected to be on his list, so there's that, at least.

 

[gary-7]

Gary, if I am reading it right, you do not think HD's coaching is to blame for EC exit. At present, HD's coaching is an offensive mess. I support the notion that the coaching system at UNC needs to be changed. But with HD's stubbornness, I don't see it changed unless he proves me wrong. I am on the boat the HD's tenure needs to end and better be soon. Or else, we will see the same mess year after year.

Well, you saw it, and "buy-in" was an issue not limited to Eliot --- it was an issue throughout the roster.

Look, I want Hubert to succeed as badly as I've ever wanted anything sports-wise. He's a good man, and has the ability in him to be a damn good coach, but like too many coaches before him, he took a big ol' wrong turn in X-and-O-Land and somehow forgot what the Maestro taught him --- and instead of heeding Einstein's famous definition of insanity, he thus far hasn't made more than just a decent tweak or two in Feb/March.

All any of us can do is hope. Right now we have Hubert and a bunch of guys on the bench wearing Carolina warm-ups who should all damn well know better than to reinvent the best wheel ever made. Not every wrinkle they've added is bad, mind you, but if you're a Carolina alum and screw up the transition game? It's time for an intervention. Maybe they'll finally self-scout and adjust?............. sorry, that's all I got.

 

[DSouthr]

Duke's starting PG will be either Proctor if he does not go NBA or little Boozer and little Boozer is a serious player as well. You folks already know Cadeau is playing for Pitino next season, why all the speculation?

 

[butter-finger]

Duke has been in contact with Donovan Dent which indicates they're interested in bringing in new starting PG

 

[gary-7]

You folks already know Cadeau is playing for Pitino next season, why all the speculation?

I imagine you're being somewhat sarcastic, but yes, that scuzz-ball is trying to get his mitts on EC,

 

[UNC-75]

Breaking news! There is one less person in the Portal! Yes, after a discussion with Hubert, I have decided to come back for another year of posting and taking my aggression out at unknown folks on the Radar site. It did not come with any monetary promises in fact there is no NIL $ for me. I graciously gave up any payments so we could maximize that amount going to the players.

 

[Ozheelfan]

Well, you saw it, and "buy-in" was an issue not limited to Eliot --- it was an issue throughout the roster.

Look, I want Hubert to succeed as badly as I've ever wanted anything sports-wise. He's a good man, and has the ability in him to be a damn good coach, but like too many coaches before him, he took a big ol' wrong turn in X-and-O-Land and somehow forgot what the Maestro taught him --- and instead of heeding Einstein's famous definition of insanity, he thus far hasn't made more than just a decent tweak or two in Feb/March.

All any of us can do is hope. Right now we have Hubert and a bunch of guys on the bench wearing Carolina warm-ups who should all damn well know better than to reinvent the best wheel ever made. Not every wrinkle they've added is bad, mind you, but if you're a Carolina alum and screw up the transition game? It's time for an intervention. Maybe they'll finally self-scout and adjust?............. sorry, that's all I got.

I know you’re pulling for Hubert Gary, but my feeling is he just doesn’t have ‘it’… a natural, almost instinctive ability to see the game and to know what is needed then and there.

Also, I believe his lack of flexibility leads to him being over controlling… and that really doesn’t work with high level talent.

If players feel they’re being over controlled, a natural reaction can be to not make extra effort themselves - only showing up to practice on time, instead of early, etc.

Hubert has a lot of self evaluating to do. And as I’ve said before, he has to ask himself if he’s the best person for the job.

 

[imajericho]

Cadeau re-classed to come to us when he did. Many want to mitigate that by reminding that he was actually the right age for the class he came to us in. Yet still, his last season of high school ball was his Jr season and that is actually what matters in terms of eligibility as well as that level of experience prior to college.

He held back to get a competitive advantage on his peers to stand out. I'm not gonna sit there and act like he deserves kudos for coming early. He was 19 when he got here.

 

[2DDIMOND]

I know you’re pulling for Hubert Gary, but my feeling is he just doesn’t have ‘it’… a natural, almost instinctive ability to see the game and to know what is needed then and there.

Also, I believe his lack of flexibility leads to him being over controlling… and that really doesn’t work with high level talent.

If players feel they’re being over controlled, a natural reaction can be to not make extra effort themselves - only showing up to practice on time, instead of early, etc.

Hubert has a lot of self evaluating to do. And as I’ve said before, he has to ask himself if he’s the best person for the job.

This is spot on!

 

[NorCalTarheel]

I imagine you're being somewhat sarcastic, but yes, that scuzz-ball is trying to get his mitts on EC,

So maybe we get Wilcher back??? Strange times

 

[notashelbyfan]

He held back to get a competitive advantage on his peers to stand out. I'm not gonna sit there and act like he deserves kudos for coming early. He was 19 when he got here.

Am I the only one that thinks his parents could be part of his problem, with the being a bit childish, and whiny when things didn't go his way.

 

[gary-7]

Am I the only one that thinks his parents could be part of his problem, with the being a bit childish, and whiny when things didn't go his way.

...or maybe, just maybe, a parent doesn't like seeing mouthy alums, who are supposed to be "family", trashing the kid nstead of calling out their boys on the bench where the blame actually belongs in this case.

Funny though, I would think that you of all people, who has taken every opportunity to trash Hubert, before and since he was hired, might "get" that.

No? Ok.