Jarred Vanderbilt commits to UK

[Sk1310]

Why do you always say crap like this? Like youre better and smarter then other people. Get over yourself dude. The act is getting tiresome.

If you can't handle my posts, use the ignore feature. Clearly there for a reason and to fill a need you seem to have.[/QUOTE]

I can handle your posts. Just wondering how someone can post such stupid crap but act like they are smart. Its mind boggling and embarrasing.

 

[tarheel0910]

Kudos to @gunslingerdick for posting a joke that two other posters didn't get and caused them to bitch at each other. Bonus points for doing it on Christmas.

 

[kevindow]

I live in Louisville, graduated from UNC and married a beautiful UK grad, who is the mother of our 7 children. Roy needs to retire his old schtick of showing 30 rings:

Rings

He needs to either go with the OAD pitch perfected by Cal and K, or adopt the Pitino approach (minus the strippers and prostitutes), and recruit 4 stars who will not play until they learn how to play defense. This is binary, and there are no other choices.

Kevin

 

[2DDIMOND]

Realism isn't something in the middle. It's choosing not to see everything with rose colored glasses (no pun intended). If something looks negative, its classified as negative. If it's positive, it's classified as positive. If something is a problem, it should to be fixed. Not made little of.

But I guess some of you have more time on your hands, as I'm more interested in correcting problems then trying to see the good in them. The first part to fixing a problem is recognizing there is one. Based on what many have said in this and other threads, I don't really some of these people here would classify anything that's happening in our athletic program university a problem.

Returning from Philosophy and Life class:

People on this board push optimism like a gambler keeps pushing his luck. He's obviously bound to win at some point, and I'd bet he'd be happy when he did. Meanwhile he's managed to drain his life savings in the process.

Same with many posts here. Just keep riding the same positive points until it crashes, then on to the next one. Then they're ready to smile and say "see?" when they finally get that one thing right, all the meanwhile ignoring the fact their track record with their "optimistic approach" is horrendous.

So I'll just point out the signs regarding @imajericho's opinion on Knox:

• Knox is heavily considered to be favored to Dook or UK.
• We don't often sign recruits with 5 * much less in the Top 10. And haven't done so in nearly 7 years
• The NCAA is back down breathing on our necks, arguably harder than last time. We already saw what this did to our recruiting
• We are now close to, and possibly past, 1-20 on recruits that were also offered by Dook since 2010. Pinson was the only one. At least 2 of them from this year.

Said it with Vanderbilt, and I'll say it with Knox: If in the coming months, I'm wrong and Knox ends up committing to UNC, feel free to bring this post back up. I'm confident that the picking streak for the "optimists" will continue to get worse.

And sorry for not being fun at parties.

EDIT: Jackson was a fringe top 10 in some rankings, for anyone that wants to split hairs.

"The happiest people don't always have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"
Anonymous

 

[imajericho]

If you can't handle my posts, use the ignore feature. Clearly there for a reason and to fill a need you seem to have.

I can handle your posts. Just wondering how someone can post such stupid crap but act like they are smart. Its mind boggling and embarrasing.[/QUOTE]
Just enjoying you doing exactly what you are accusing me of doing.

/surprise

 

[Archer2]

He needs to either go with the OAD pitch perfected by Cal and K, or adopt the Pitino approach (minus the strippers and prostitutes), and recruit 4 stars who will not play until they learn how to play defense. This is binary, and there are no other choices.

Kevin

Most things in life aren't binary. There are usually more than two options. With the neverending investigation hanging over our head, I don't see how UNC fans could realistically have expected him to do any better than he has, the operative word being realistically.

 

[DSouthr]

Most things in life aren't binary. There are usually more than two options. With the neverending investigation hanging over our head, I don't see how UNC fans could realistically have expected him to do any better than he has, the operative word being realistically.

Hey arch, pretty cool icon ya got there, double helix, it is in your DNA !

 

[RoseHeel]

"The happiest people don't always have the best of everything, they just make the best of everything"
Anonymous

Well, if you can spin the NOA, that can potentially cause the vacation of 2 NCAA titles and has essentially scared away almost every one of our recruits into something positive, I'm all ears.

 

[RoseHeel]

Most things in life aren't binary. There are usually more than two options. With the neverending investigation hanging over our head, I don't see how UNC fans could realistically have expected him to do any better than he has, the operative word being realistically.

Lol, Hilarious. Now you want to start talking about being "realistic".

 

[RoseHeel]

Your posts has no likes. I got four likes with mine. That's rock solid proof my poast was better. Sorry.[/QUOTE]

Congratulations. Though, I'd rather be "correct" than be "better". But whatever floats your boat.

 

[gunslingerdick]

.

 

[jah420]

JUMANJI!!

 

[dadika13]

My question exactly, he is implying that Cal develops players fastest than Roy does!

It's a BS argument they can leave from Carolina just as easy after one season as they can from any where else Roy isn't tying them up in a basement to keep them from leaving after they freshman seasons?

No I wasn't. Good job bud.

Kids that go to UK are already developed. If there was no OAD, they'd never even go to college. He sells that UK will not hinder them from entering the league right away, and he's right.

 

[dadika13]

False!!! I know people hate Cal but every recruit will tell you that he promises nothing! He's straight up with them and tells them they will have to earn everything, compete their ass off and go to class. That's why they love him!!!!

So that is not at all true. I know for a fact what he told KAT and he promised the world to him. It worked cuz KAT is awesome. What about those who aren't?

 

[morgousky]

A few things should be said here.

Every coach has a "style", and that style is largely decided by what they are good at. Rick Pitino recruits the way he recruits because that's what he's able to get. Same with Roy. Same with K. Same with Cal. Roy isn't a OAD type personality. It's not that he wouldn't take OAD's, it's not that a OAD wouldn't play for UNC. it's just that the "system" or "culture" that's at place in chapel hill isn't of that mold. So naturally, you aren't going to get top 25 kids that dream about being a pro. That's about 75% of them. Your next coach could be the exact opposite.

Dean Smith was first national guy in this sport to want his guys to leave early if they could. There was a time when UNC was called "the place of the pros"; and rightfully so, touted it. This was also during a time when the older generations hated anyone leaving early at all, and UNC and their fans didn't care. For the time and place, it was as revolutionary as what Cal is doing now. Dean was a players coach, that also used that system to elevate UNC. In this regard, there's no difference in Cal and Dean.

When Cal says "traditionalist don't like it, but our goal was to get 8 players drafted", that's his PITCH. he's telling all the recruits out there that are the future Pro's, win or lose, you have a home here to reach your INDIVIDUAL dream; just sell out for the team while you're here. Anyone who doesn't think Cal cares first about winning, doesn't understand alpha coaches at all. I don't care what they say, you don't dominate sports at these levels the way he does and not have success and winning as your biggest motivation. Learn to separate motive from recruiting pitches.

And that's why Cal is special, and Roy has even said similar himself. Getting 4 freshman and a sophomore to beat an upperclassman UNC team is not something every coach can do. Regardless of talent. Most really great coaches wouldn't want to and don't want to try. It's hard enough starting ONE freshman.

Cal is using his gift of getting players to buy in and motivating, and adapting to the system of OAD to lure the best of the best to Lexington. It's a match for him. Roy is not fit for that style. He's better with system guys and he knows it.

So, I don't see the problem with these differing styles. And it's really discouraging when fan bases get into the "our players care more than yours" - Or the worst of the worst, - "our players value education, yours don't." What a truly nasty assumption to put on the back of a 19 year old that's looking at multi-million dollar contracts. Most of them care greatly, and some return to college (wall). Bledsoe lived out of a damn car in high school. Heaven forbid he make the jump early.

The name of the game in college basketball is recruiting. Period. However you do it, you do it. And anyone blasting one style over the other only means, they feel their style is inadequate. UNC was in the title game last year, nothing inadequate to feel about he style and knock on others.

 

[gunslingerdick]

A few things should be said here.

Every coach has a "style", and that style is largely decided by what they are good at. Rick Pitino recruits the way he recruits because that's what he's able to get. Same with Roy. Same with K. Same with Cal. Roy isn't a OAD type personality. It's not that he wouldn't take OAD's, it's not that a OAD wouldn't play for UNC. it's just that the "system" or "culture" that's at place in chapel hill isn't of that mold. So naturally, you aren't going to get top 25 kids that dream about being a pro. That's about 75% of them. Your next coach could be the exact opposite.

Dean Smith was first national guy in this sport to want his guys to leave early if they could. There was a time when UNC was called "the place of the pros"; and rightfully so, touted it. This was also during a time when the older generations hated anyone leaving early at all, and UNC and their fans didn't care. For the time and place, it was as revolutionary as what Cal is doing now. Dean was a players coach, that also used that system to elevate UNC. In this regard, there's no difference in Cal and Dean.

When Cal says "traditionalist don't like it, but our goal was to get 8 players drafted", that's his PITCH. he's telling all the recruits out there that are the future Pro's, win or lose, you have a home here to reach your INDIVIDUAL dream; just sell out for the team while you're here. Anyone who doesn't think Cal cares first about winning, doesn't understand alpha coaches at all. I don't care what they say, you don't dominate sports at these levels the way he does and not have success and winning as your biggest motivation. Learn to separate motive from recruiting pitches.

And that's why Cal is special, and Roy has even said similar himself. Getting 4 freshman and a sophomore to beat an upperclassman UNC team is not something every coach can do. Regardless of talent. Most really great coaches wouldn't want to and don't want to try. It's hard enough starting ONE freshman.

Cal is using his gift of getting players to buy in and motivating, and adapting to the system of OAD to lure the best of the best to Lexington. It's a match for him. Roy is not fit for that style. He's better with system guys and he knows it.

So, I don't see the problem with these differing styles. And it's really discouraging when fan bases get into the "our players care more than yours" - Or the worst of the worst, - "our players value education, yours don't." What a truly nasty assumption to put on the back of a 19 year old that's looking at multi-million dollar contracts. Most of them care greatly, and some return to college (wall). Bledsoe lived out of a damn car in high school. Heaven forbid he make the jump early.

The name of the game in college basketball is recruiting. Period. However you do it, you do it. And anyone blasting one style over the other only means, they feel their style is inadequate. UNC was in the title game last year, nothing inadequate to feel about he style and knock on others.

That's a solid poast and I agree with much of it. But there are some things where we see it differently.

On the subject of the investment in the program and school, you cannot say that kids that attend a school for one year develop the same love, admiration and loyalty to a program and a school that a 3 or 4 year student does. That just can't be done. UK guys get the money as soon as they can. And there's nothing wrong with that. Good for them. I'd probably do the same. But there's something to be said for commitment to the program. Even if it's forced commitment - because said player couldn't get drafted - it's far easier to root for guys that stick around. I like Marvin Williams and Brandan Wright fine. But at times, I forget about them. I'll never forget about Marcus Paige. Never. Marvin won a championship and was the #2 pick in the draft. Marcus might never play pro ball. But give me Marcus all day every day. Fans connect better with long term guys. Because to me at least, watching Carolina basketball (or any sport), isn't just about whether they win or lose. Watching Marcus overcome a lot of adversity was pleasing. His career path was great enjoyment and entertainment for me and my kids. We'll talk about him for years to come. Marvin Williams? Not so much. I hardly knew ye.

In regards to Dean and Cal, sure, Dean was the first "players' coach" - that is true. But Dean would have never recruited upon that premise. He didn't market UNC in the way that Cal markets the UK program. Maybe they're similar in their cutting edge perspectives on recruiting. But the way they marketed their programs is vastly different. Can you imagine Dean ever saying that his goal is to get 8 guys drafted? No. He probably wouldn't even entertain a question asked by a reporter of that nature. He'd promote his players going when they were ready. But he wouldn't brag about it. He wouldn't feel the need to remind people of his success in getting guys to the NBA. He allowed other people to talk about it. He talked about what it took to win basketball games at UNC. And he recruited guys under the premise of making Carolina a better program - not on the premise of "I'll get you to the league as quickly as possible". That happened naturally. So in that regard, Dean and Cal are very different.

 

[HeelFan58]

Actually, UK has a perfect APR over the last three years. Since Cal has been here, Patrick Patterson, Darius Miller, Josh Harrelson, Alex Poythress, and several others have all graduated. This year three more seniors will graduate. Several UK players carried 4.0 GPA's while at UK including Brandon Knight and Alex Poythress. UK players also constantly participate in local outreach programs, going to children's hospitals, reading to title 1 school students, etc. All this while having the best record in college basketball over the last 7 years, 4 final fours, a national championship, and more players drafted in the first round than any other program. Looks like we're batting 1.000.

I'm sure it's really hard to carry a 4.0 at UK (requires reciting the alphabet and counting to 20) and graduating ( reading 2 Dr. Seuss books all the way through.) I know a kid who taught John Wall (honor student at UK) at Garner MS (I believe) and he said it was no way in hell that Wall could pass the SAT on his own. Don't piss on my leg and tell me it's raining.

 

[HeelFan58]

My beef isn't so much about him wanting to have a miserable outlook. That's fine. He can be as much of a downer as he wants to be. I don't care. But he's here preaching to others that we should all be downers as well.




So basically jericho wants us to stop having hope.



Well, if you said it, and because you're the self-appointed "realist" of the board, then it has to be accurate.




Bad news? lol. The day that I let high school kids' decisions on where to play basketball become "bad news" to me is the day I'll put a gun in my mouth. In the grand scheme, this means shit to me. I would have liked to have Vanderbilt play for us. But he chose not to. So I'll watch the team next year without him and I doubt I'll think of him more than 3 times for the rest of my life. The same goes for Knox. I think some of y'all get too wrapped up in this.



Technically, that's not the actual definition. But I'm not going to get into semantics. I'm going to speak to the bolded parts of your quote. "Being a problem is subjective. Some of us may not find any problem whatsoever in signing good kids who are not elite basketball players as a "problem". You don't get to declare what's a problem.




More time on our hands? That doesn't even make sense. Does it take more time to not get down in the dumps because a recruit said no to us? Does it take more time to have a positive outlook on life? I'd argue that getting worked up and bemoaning our recruiting misses would actually take more time than not doing that. As far as what's going on in the athletic program being a problem or not, you'd have to ask Bubba. Because one thing I know for sure, it's not my problem.



Yeah, it's just like that. Because UNC basketball is just as important as my life and family. You nailed it with that analogy.

There is no harm in being optimistic and then being wrong. None. So what?,...I was hopeful a certain guy was going to choose us and he didn't? I think I'll be ok. But you might want to keep a watch on me to make sure I didn't kill myself.



And? So what? Where's the issue? So the optimists were wrong again? Will that have some effect on you? Them? The program? I'm not sure if you know this, but all of us here are just fans that talk out of our asses on a message board. Neither you and your pessimism or us with our optimism or jericho with his self-defined "realism" is going to do anything to change the current state of affairs. It's completely out of your control. You have zero to do with it. So some of us just choose to be hopeful about a situation we have no control over while you would prefer to be angry and upset about a situation you have zero control over. But the first step to fixing a problem is,...blah, blah, blah. Well, you and jericho have identified the problem. What are you gonna do about it. Because since your pessimism or realism has such an impact, the rest of the board is going to start holding you personally accountable for our recruiting misses. I mean, you've admiited that there's a problem and you said that's the first step to fixing it. So I'm sure everyone here would love to know the next steps in the process in fixing the problem. C'mon now, Rose, don't let us down. Everything hinges on you and jericho.


Oh, so "fringe" top 10 guys aren't the same as as regular top 10 guys? Got it.

Merry Christmas. Try to enjoy the birth of Christ although realism might tell you that he really wasn't born in December and that much of the Christmas holiday and our traditions don't make a lot sense.

Southr hacked your account.

 

[DSouthr]

A few things should be said here.

Every coach has a "style", and that style is largely decided by what they are good at. Rick Pitino recruits the way he recruits because that's what he's able to get. Same with Roy. Same with K. Same with Cal. Roy isn't a OAD type personality. It's not that he wouldn't take OAD's, it's not that a OAD wouldn't play for UNC. it's just that the "system" or "culture" that's at place in chapel hill isn't of that mold. So naturally, you aren't going to get top 25 kids that dream about being a pro. That's about 75% of them. Your next coach could be the exact opposite.

Dean Smith was first national guy in this sport to want his guys to leave early if they could. There was a time when UNC was called "the place of the pros"; and rightfully so, touted it. This was also during a time when the older generations hated anyone leaving early at all, and UNC and their fans didn't care. For the time and place, it was as revolutionary as what Cal is doing now. Dean was a players coach, that also used that system to elevate UNC. In this regard, there's no difference in Cal and Dean.

When Cal says "traditionalist don't like it, but our goal was to get 8 players drafted", that's his PITCH. he's telling all the recruits out there that are the future Pro's, win or lose, you have a home here to reach your INDIVIDUAL dream; just sell out for the team while you're here. Anyone who doesn't think Cal cares first about winning, doesn't understand alpha coaches at all. I don't care what they say, you don't dominate sports at these levels the way he does and not have success and winning as your biggest motivation. Learn to separate motive from recruiting pitches.

And that's why Cal is special, and Roy has even said similar himself. Getting 4 freshman and a sophomore to beat an upperclassman UNC team is not something every coach can do. Regardless of talent. Most really great coaches wouldn't want to and don't want to try. It's hard enough starting ONE freshman.

Cal is using his gift of getting players to buy in and motivating, and adapting to the system of OAD to lure the best of the best to Lexington. It's a match for him. Roy is not fit for that style. He's better with system guys and he knows it.

So, I don't see the problem with these differing styles. And it's really discouraging when fan bases get into the "our players care more than yours" - Or the worst of the worst, - "our players value education, yours don't." What a truly nasty assumption to put on the back of a 19 year old that's looking at multi-million dollar contracts. Most of them care greatly, and some return to college (wall). Bledsoe lived out of a damn car in high school. Heaven forbid he make the jump early.

The name of the game in college basketball is recruiting. Period. However you do it, you do it. And anyone blasting one style over the other only means, they feel their style is inadequate. UNC was in the title game last year, nothing inadequate to feel about he style and knock on others.

So much here I disagree with but top of the list is that statement that Dean and Kal are in any way similar...WoW, could not agree with that on any level. That fiction that Roy holds his players back seems to play strong for you. Truth is kal is more a player manager than a coach, he does not develop players as much as he passes them thru. Look at SJK right now, no development, you have to come to that program ready to play, else you find the bench and get recruited over, SJK would be a fool for this to not be his last season at Ky.

Dean took great talents and made them great players, kal takes great talents and features them for an NBA audition, huge difference. Dean identified himself primary as a teacher, Kal is a marketer, no more to the story than that.

You may hold the belief that ONLY under kal would his one & dones been one & done but I believe most of the world would realize those one & dones would have been one & done no matter what top 50 program they picked.

 

[heelmanwilm]

If any of the neg stuff about cal being a used car salesman were true there would be a smoking gun by now. There would be disgruntled players or parents. Players after leaving ky wiuld be talking. Players would be transferring. Thats not happening. The oad talent is happy splitting minutes and not being big man on campus. I think its time we drop the narrative that these recruits are being duped. As i've said before though u could make a strong case cal is underachieving with the talent going thru there.

 

[gauchoheel]

A few things should be said here.

Every coach has a "style", and that style is largely decided by what they are good at. Rick Pitino recruits the way he recruits because that's what he's able to get. Same with Roy. Same with K. Same with Cal. Roy isn't a OAD type personality. It's not that he wouldn't take OAD's, it's not that a OAD wouldn't play for UNC. it's just that the "system" or "culture" that's at place in chapel hill isn't of that mold. So naturally, you aren't going to get top 25 kids that dream about being a pro. That's about 75% of them. Your next coach could be the exact opposite.

Dean Smith was first national guy in this sport to want his guys to leave early if they could. There was a time when UNC was called "the place of the pros"; and rightfully so, touted it. This was also during a time when the older generations hated anyone leaving early at all, and UNC and their fans didn't care. For the time and place, it was as revolutionary as what Cal is doing now. Dean was a players coach, that also used that system to elevate UNC. In this regard, there's no difference in Cal and Dean.

When Cal says "traditionalist don't like it, but our goal was to get 8 players drafted", that's his PITCH. he's telling all the recruits out there that are the future Pro's, win or lose, you have a home here to reach your INDIVIDUAL dream; just sell out for the team while you're here. Anyone who doesn't think Cal cares first about winning, doesn't understand alpha coaches at all. I don't care what they say, you don't dominate sports at these levels the way he does and not have success and winning as your biggest motivation. Learn to separate motive from recruiting pitches.

And that's why Cal is special, and Roy has even said similar himself. Getting 4 freshman and a sophomore to beat an upperclassman UNC team is not something every coach can do. Regardless of talent. Most really great coaches wouldn't want to and don't want to try. It's hard enough starting ONE freshman.

Cal is using his gift of getting players to buy in and motivating, and adapting to the system of OAD to lure the best of the best to Lexington. It's a match for him. Roy is not fit for that style. He's better with system guys and he knows it.

So, I don't see the problem with these differing styles. And it's really discouraging when fan bases get into the "our players care more than yours" - Or the worst of the worst, - "our players value education, yours don't." What a truly nasty assumption to put on the back of a 19 year old that's looking at multi-million dollar contracts. Most of them care greatly, and some return to college (wall). Bledsoe lived out of a damn car in high school. Heaven forbid he make the jump early.

The name of the game in college basketball is recruiting. Period. However you do it, you do it. And anyone blasting one style over the other only means, they feel their style is inadequate. UNC was in the title game last year, nothing inadequate to feel about he style and knock on others.

I agree with a lot of the things you said here. I think it's understandable that many on here despise Cal, after all, I'm sure a Louisville board would have the same tone even though I haven't looked. A Texas board has lots of Bob Stoops haters. Etc. Rivals always find ways to make opposing coaches/players/fans "bad guys" in their minds. It's just the ingroup/outgroup mentality that is innate to people.

I think Cal is great at his job. You can disagree with his methods, personality, or whatever if you want but his job is to win basketball games. He's got a career .771 winning percentage, 6 Final Fours, and an NCAA championship. He may get another one or two before all is said and done. He's a great basketball coach, full stop.

And his recruiting pitch works. Year after year he is getting a bunch of top guys to come play for him. So I disagree with those who think he is duping players. In fact, I think his pitch makes a lot of sense. Come play in the middle of nowhere (Lexington), play with 6-8 other guys who are the best in the world for their age, and focus on your game for a year. If you can outcompete the few other guys your age in this "basketball academy", you'll be a multimillionaire. If not, you'll have a bunch of NBA ballers as friends, play for a championship level team with a hugely passionate fanbase and where everything is catered around you, and there is always the option to transfer if you don't like it.

Heck, I'd be down for that. It sounds like a pretty fun time. He may not be developing guys a ton, but it's pretty tough to develop anyone in 6 months. If I'm an NBA caliber player I'd want to focus on developing my game without distraction, play with other top players, get showcased in the media, and have a chance at a championship. Kentucky hits every bucket.

Where I disagree is that Roy is not a OAD coach. Look at our recruiting before 2012. There were top 10 players in the class almost every year. Unless it's just that connecting with kids has passed Roy by, there's no way you can say his culture is not attractive for top 25 players. Something has changed in our recruiting, but is not inherent to Roy or UNC.

Also, I think recruits ought to be more realistic about logjams at their positions. SKJ should not be at Kentucky. If they get Knox, or perhaps even if not, it will again be a situation where there are just too many players, and one of those guys should have gone somewhere like UNC where there is a big hole in the lineup they can come fill. If nothing else that makes it more likely a team will throw a bunch of money at you. You can't get drafted high if you don't play.

 

[morgousky]

That's a solid poast and I agree with much of it. But there are some things where we see it differently.

On the subject of the investment in the program and school, you cannot say that kids that attend a school for one year develop the same love, admiration and loyalty to a program and a school that a 3 or 4 year student does. That just can't be done. UK guys get the money as soon as they can. And there's nothing wrong with that. Good for them. I'd probably do the same. But there's something to be said for commitment to the program. Even if it's forced commitment - because said player couldn't get drafted - it's far easier to root for guys that stick around. I like Marvin Williams and Brandan Wright fine. But at times, I forget about them. I'll never forget about Marcus Paige. Never. Marvin won a championship and was the #2 pick in the draft. Marcus might never play pro ball. But give me Marcus all day every day. Fans connect better with long term guys. Because to me at least, watching Carolina basketball (or any sport), isn't just about whether they win or lose. Watching Marcus overcome a lot of adversity was pleasing. His career path was great enjoyment and entertainment for me and my kids. We'll talk about him for years to come. Marvin Williams? Not so much. I hardly knew ye.

In regards to Dean and Cal, sure, Dean was the first "players' coach" - that is true. But Dean would have never recruited upon that premise. He didn't market UNC in the way that Cal markets the UK program. Maybe they're similar in their cutting edge perspectives on recruiting. But the way they marketed their programs is vastly different. Can you imagine Dean ever saying that his goal is to get 8 guys drafted? No. He probably wouldn't even entertain a question asked by a reporter of that nature. He'd promote his players going when they were ready. But he wouldn't brag about it. He wouldn't feel the need to remind people of his success in getting guys to the NBA. He allowed other people to talk about it. He talked about what it took to win basketball games at UNC. And he recruited guys under the premise of making Carolina a better program - not on the premise of "I'll get you to the league as quickly as possible". That happened naturally. So in that regard, Dean and Cal are very different.

When I say "in that regard" Dean and Cal are the same, I mean a revolutionary style of being a "players first coach" and using it to benefit their programs. You guys certainly know more about Dean than I, but I have a hard time believing if he were alive today he wouldn't be more of a Cal mold than a, say, Self mold. I mean, he was moving guys toward the pros early when it was unheard of. He was a "pros" coach. Today that style is OAD. Dean was 100% for his players best interest. I just have a hard time believing he would tell top 20 draft picks today, "you need to return and forgo that 4 million".

As far as these players love for their programs, I can see how it would be difficult to entertain the idea that somehow a 1 year player could have the same love of program that a 4 year player would. And in some aspects it's probably true. Does Chuck Hayes love UK more than James Young? Probably. At the same time, does Joe Crawford love UK as much as Demarcus Cousins? Not even close. A lot of it depends on the player and personality. UK is a lot of fun for these recruits right now. You're about to make millions, you're playing with other pros trying to win a title etc. Wall loved UK, and often tells OAD's that enjoy UK because it's pure businesss after it and not as fun. Also Wall is back at UK finishing his degree (during summers I believe). Most come back because they love it. I'm a grapher (hobby) and when I travel to road games, Demarcus Cousins will find the U.K. Fans out of a crowd and act like family. It's actually amazing how a one Year player can care so much imo.

All in all, I just want to win. I'm guilty. And having a zillion players in the pros only helps in the future for program recognition and placement. UNC fans should understand this more than anyone. You guys have used Jordan through the last couple decades as a huge boost to your program. Only an idiot wouldn't have.

But anyway, I think it works for Cal, so he uses the rule to benefit UK. Hey, he could be a phony like K. At least he is what he is and doesn't copy paste someone else and pretend in the end he's not doing it.

 

[morgousky]

I agree with a lot of the things you said here. I think it's understandable that many on here despise Cal, after all, I'm sure a Louisville board would have the same tone even though I haven't looked. A Texas board has lots of Bob Stoops haters. Etc. Rivals always find ways to make opposing coaches/players/fans "bad guys" in their minds. It's just the ingroup/outgroup mentality that is innate to people.

I think Cal is great at his job. You can disagree with his methods, personality, or whatever if you want but his job is to win basketball games. He's got a career .771 winning percentage, 6 Final Fours, and an NCAA championship. He may get another one or two before all is said and done. He's a great basketball coach, full stop.

And his recruiting pitch works. Year after year he is getting a bunch of top guys to come play for him. So I disagree with those who think he is duping players. In fact, I think his pitch makes a lot of sense. Come play in the middle of nowhere (Lexington), play with 6-8 other guys who are the best in the world for their age, and focus on your game for a year. If you can outcompete the few other guys your age in this "basketball academy", you'll be a multimillionaire. If not, you'll have a bunch of NBA ballers as friends, play for a championship level team with a hugely passionate fanbase and where everything is catered around you, and there is always the option to transfer if you don't like it.

Heck, I'd be down for that. It sounds like a pretty fun time. He may not be developing guys a ton, but it's pretty tough to develop anyone in 6 months. If I'm an NBA caliber player I'd want to focus on developing my game without distraction, play with other top players, get showcased in the media, and have a chance at a championship. Kentucky hits every bucket.

Where I disagree is that Roy is not a OAD coach. Look at our recruiting before 2012. There were top 10 players in the class almost every year. Unless it's just that connecting with kids has passed Roy by, there's no way you can say his culture is not attractive for top 25 players. Something has changed in our recruiting, but is not inherent to Roy or UNC.

Also, I think recruits ought to be more realistic about logjams at their positions. SKJ should not be at Kentucky. If they get Knox, or perhaps even if not, it will again be a situation where there are just too many players, and one of those guys should have gone somewhere like UNC where there is a big hole in the lineup they can come fill. If nothing else that makes it more likely a team will throw a bunch of money at you. You can't get drafted high if you don't play.

I didn't mean to say UNC is not a good stop for a OAD player. I don't think Roy would have told Wall to return. I do not believe however that he'd want a Bledsoe, or a Knight, for example, to go. And this is probably what's hurt him in the top 10 list for a while.

On the last point, I don't necessarily agree that you need lots of minutes to get drafted. We've had several get drafted on backup minutes. If SKJ was producing in those minutes, he'd get drafted. At U.K. Right now it's not so much about minutes, it's about what you look like inside the minutes you have. At the same time, I could see where SKJ would be a better 3-4 year guy at UNC. but again, with Cals pitch, he's going to get guys like SKJ that want their best shot at being a pro. Not that Roy doesn't make that happen too of course.

And contrary to popular opinion, Cal doesn't just recruit OAD's. A guy like SKJ might have known he was a 3 year guy and wanted to play at U.K. Anyway. It's not all or nothing like some try and claim.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Wow so after wading through this cesspool of a thread, I can't tell if I'm more amazed that there are double digit poasts in which the poasters failed to properly use the quote function - or that @gunslingerdick has been branded an optimist, of all things.

 

[tarheel0910]

QUOTE="Hark_The_Sound_2010, post: 777783, member: 3138"]Wow so after wading through this cesspool of a thread, I can't tell if I'm more amazed that there are double digit poasts in which the poasters failed to properly use the quote function - or that @gunslingerdick has been branded an optimist, of all things.[/QUOTE]

I'm going with GSD as an optimist.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

QUOTE="Hark_The_Sound_2010, post: 777783, member: 3138"]Wow so after wading through this cesspool of a thread, I can't tell if I'm more amazed that there are double digit poasts in which the poasters failed to properly use the quote function - or that @gunslingerdick has been branded an optimist, of all things.

I'm going with GSD as an optimist.

Kill yourself

 

[truetarheelraider0806]

I didn't mean to say UNC is not a good stop for a OAD player. I don't think Roy would have told Wall to return. I do not believe however that he'd want a Bledsoe, or a Knight, for example, to go. And this is probably what's hurt him in the top 10 list for a while.



On the last point, I don't necessarily agree that you need lots of minutes to get drafted. We've had several get drafted on backup minutes. If SKJ was producing in those minutes, he'd get drafted. At U.K. Right now it's not so much about minutes, it's about what you look like inside the minutes you have. At the same time, I could see where SKJ would be a better 3-4 year guy at UNC. but again, with Cals pitch, he's going to get guys like SKJ that want their best shot at being a pro. Not that Roy doesn't make that happen too of course.

And contrary to popular opinion, Cal doesn't just recruit OAD's. A guy like SKJ might have known he was a 3 year guy and wanted to play at U.K. Anyway. It's not all or nothing like some try and claim.

Uhh. O skj was told he would be star and off to the NBA after this yr. His mom is NOT happy and if you look at his body language on the bench and reports from UK insiders skj is not happy. He very well may transfer after this yr