Jimmy V Classic

[TarHeelNation11]

Duke vs. Florida (the latter said with the accent of Aunt Bethany in Christmas Vacation).

Who do y'all like in this one? Also, I saw this matchup was taking place and I foolishly thought it was going to be in Gainesville. Lol..............wow, what a dumb thought by me. Of course it isn't in Gainesville. That would actually be a hostile environment (and a really darn good matchup for TV IMO) for Duke and we can't have that!

Sorry for the stream of consciousness poast. Any chance the Gators feast tonight? BTW, I'd love for us to play at Florida. That's a cool environment, or at least it appears pretty cool on TV.

 

[Butterbutt44]

Florida played em close for 16 min in first half then totally went away from what was working for them on offense. Tatum is the real deal unfortunately.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

This is my first time watching Duke this season. They look very beatable.

 

[HeelFan58]

The only time I watch dook basketball is if the opponent is UNC or if I hear they are getting their ass kicked and then I might turn the channel to the game.

 

[dadika13]

PG play is a HUGE issue for them. Jackson got stripped a few times and anyone else is very uncomfortable bringing it up even against just minor pressure.

 

[keysersosay#1]

I watched some of the game first half mostly

UK East is highly vulnerable if and when this Jackson doosh gets into foul trouble .They really have NO backup with that jones guy plying PG.I would relentlessly attack them at the PG position get Jackson into foul trouble and attack their guards Tatum is really good will be in the NBA next season.

 

[ajklum]

Dook has constantly had SG step in and be serviceable at the PG position. The best player on the floor is Luke K. I thought he was the most dangerous last year as well, but didnt have the green light like G Trip has. The first time I saw Tatum drop step and power through the bigger defender for an easy layup I had a picture in my mind of Meeks face getting pushed in a pillow as he starts nibbling on it. Too fast for Meeks, Too strong for hicks or Justin. He creates a huge matchup problem for us. With Luke scoring at will and no answer for Tatum, we will have to hope for an insane game from our offensive duo of Berry and Jackson to stay in the game. Jackson attacking the basket and getting the 7ft fraggle Amile (okay he is 6'9") in foul trouble. BTW could a player have any weirder eyes than Amile Jefferson. I feel like handing my wallet to the TV every time I see him.

 

[dadika13]

We can all agree that Jones isn't very good right? I know he gets serious minutes but every time I've seen him play I've been very unimpressed.

 

[keysersosay#1]

I forgot to mention that this was ANOTHER of the "road games" that UK east is notorious for. Always dealing from a stacked deck that Vader.

 

[Steat]

They have not played a "true road" game yet and we will see what happens when they play a good ACC team on the road. They do not have a point guard and their defense is still pretty weak.

Having said this, Luke West Kenard is a lottery pick if he declares for the NBA. This kid is the closest player I have seen in years that plays like Hall of Famer Jerry West of the Los Angeles Lakers. I hate Duke more than any UNC fan, but this kid is the real deal. Don't be surprised if K-Rat convinces Kenard to come back. As I said a few weeks ago, Trip blew his chance to be a first round pick last year. Now Trip looks like he will go in the second round. I doubt Trip will average more than 10-12 points a game for the rest of the season. Tatum, Kenard and Amile will get the majority of the points. Kenard is the key to Duke winning a title.

 

[Butterbutt44]

Kennards a good player,but hes not a lottery pick lol.
My worries for us when we play them is Tatum, If Pinson is back at that point and effective it is less of a concern because we can rotate more defenders on him and Pinson is probably best equipped to match up with him defensively.

If Giles is back, we better be ready for a war because we will need all of our guys, freshmen included playing at their best. They do have more weapons from any Dook team Ive seen in awhile. But this doesnt mean I dont think we can beat them, I do. There are a number of intriguing matchups and we could be looking at some of the best UNC-Dook games in awhile if both teams come in fully healthy.

 

[mikeirbyusa]

They played last night?

 

[Steat]

Kennards a good player,but hes not a lottery pick lol.
My worries for us when we play them is Tatum, If Pinson is back at that point and effective it is less of a concern because we can rotate more defenders on him and Pinson is probably best equipped to match up with him defensively.

If Giles is back, we better be ready for a war because we will need all of our guys, freshmen included playing at their best. They do have more weapons from any Dook team Ive seen in awhile. But this doesnt mean I dont think we can beat them, I do. There are a number of intriguing matchups and we could be looking at some of the best UNC-Dook games in awhile if both teams come in fully healthy.

Personally, I'm not worried about Giles. Jefferson is a better player right now and if they want to reduce Jefferson's minutes for Giles than many opponents will be in favor of that. Giles is a disaster waiting to happen with his weak knees. The kid should never play this season. We have to agree to disagree about Kenard. That kid scares more than Tatum.

 

[dadika13]

Personally, I'm not worried about Giles. Jefferson is a better player right now and if they want to reduce Jefferson's minutes for Giles than many opponents will be in favor of that. Giles is a disaster waiting to happen with his weak knees. The kid should never play this season. We have to agree to disagree about Kenard. That kid scares more than Tatum.

Recency bias with Giles I'm guessing. He is an absolute monster and can do things Jefferson can't dream of doing. Just haven't seen it in over a year. If the knees let him, he scares me infinitely more than Jefferson. Kennard and Tatum are studs also. That said, Allen looks like he regressed and they have no PG. I don't think they can get away with that for 6 games in March.

P.S. Tatum still doesn't have his legs under him. You saw about 40% of him last night. I wish he was a Tar Heel, his game is unreal. Top 5 pick easily.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

They have not played a "true road" game yet and we will see what happens when they play a good ACC team on the road. They do not have a point guard and their defense is still pretty weak.

Having said this, Luke West Kenard is a lottery pick if he declares for the NBA. This kid is the closest player I have seen in years that plays like Hall of Famer Jerry West of the Los Angeles Lakers. I hate Duke more than any UNC fan, but this kid is the real deal. Don't be surprised if K-Rat convinces Kenard to come back. As I said a few weeks ago, Trip blew his chance to be a first round pick last year. Now Trip looks like he will go in the second round. I doubt Trip will average more than 10-12 points a game for the rest of the season. Tatum, Kenard and Amile will get the majority of the points. Kenard is the key to Duke winning a title.

@ unlv saturday in their new building....acc/big10 challenge aside...@tulane and @hawaii (which made plenty of sense since yall where already there for the maui tourney)

 

[gunslingerdick]

I said a month ago that I really liked Kennard's game. He's very crafty and creative. I'd take him every day of the week over Trip (BTW, I love that nickname).

Jefferson is an experienced senior and offers a lot of hustle and leadership. But I'll take Meeks or Hicks over him.

I only watched for about 20 minutes last night and Tatum looked pretty good. But I'll have to see it several times - against better players - before I'm scared. A duke fan could have tuned in to the Ok St game and said the same about JJ.

 

[Butterbutt44]

Personally, I'm not worried about Giles. Jefferson is a better player right now and if they want to reduce Jefferson's minutes for Giles than many opponents will be in favor of that. Giles is a disaster waiting to happen with his weak knees. The kid should never play this season. We have to agree to disagree about Kenard. That kid scares more than Tatum.

Not Worried about Giles? Yet you have Manley as a 5 star recruit? All I can say is we better bring our A game if Giles is back healthy. Giles as dadika said is a monster.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Not Worried about Giles? Yet you have Manley as a 5 star recruit? All I can say is we better bring our A game if Giles is back healthy. Giles as dadika said is a monster.

Giles is a monster, I'm sure. But if Giles is doing most of the damage, then that means Tatum probably isn't. So either way, I don't think we're outmanned.

And at this point, I'm starting to wonder about Giles' future. That's an unsettling situation for duke.

 

[Butterbutt44]

Giles is a monster, I'm sure. But if Giles is doing most of the damage, then that means Tatum probably isn't. So either way, I don't think we're outmanned.

And at this point, I'm starting to wonder about Giles' future. That's an unsettling situation for duke.

Yeah Im not saying we are outmanned, but if both Giles and Tatum are both Doing damage we will most definitely have our hands full.

 

[dukephysics]

Jefferson is an experienced senior and offers a lot of hustle and leadership. But I'll take Meeks or Hicks over him.

Do you mean you really like Hicks and Meeks as people or do you mean you think they are both better players than Jefferson?

 

[dgheel57]

Do you mean you really like Hicks and Meeks as people or do you mean you think they are both better players than Jefferson?[/QUOTE


What matters to me is the score when these two teams meet,at times both teams have had better players than the other,but lost.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Do you mean you really like Hicks and Meeks as people or do you mean you think they are both better players than Jefferson?

Don't be a moron. Of course I mean the latter.

 

[dukephysics]

Don't be a moron. Of course I mean the latter.

I'm not sure why you need to name call.
Is there any statistic that you believe by season's end will prove your assertion? I can't imagine Jefferson being the 3rd best post player on many teams in the country - and I think UNC's strength is Berry and Jackson.

 

[gunslingerdick]

Is there any statistic that you believe by season's end will prove your assertion? .

Maybe, maybe not. But stats don't tell the whole story. We run many guys in and out of the line up preventing them from accumulating big stats. But Hicks is a better athlete and every bit as skilled as Jefferson. He's a better FT shooter and handles the ball better. Meeks is more skilled as a shooter and far more skilled as a passer. And he's just as good of a rebounder. Up to this point in the season, Meeks is averaging the same number of rebounds in 8 less minutes per game. Hicks is averaging 2 less points than Jefferson in 5 less mpg.

 

[dukephysics]

Maybe, maybe not. But stats don't tell the whole story. We run many guys in and out of the line up preventing them from accumulating big stats. But Hicks is a better athlete and every bit as skilled as Jefferson. He's a better FT shooter and handles the ball better. Meeks is more skilled as a shooter and far more skilled as a passer. And he's just as good of a rebounder. Up to this point in the season, Meeks is averaging the same number of rebounds in 8 less minutes per game. Hicks is averaging 2 less points than Jefferson in 5 less mpg.

I totally agree that stats don't tell the whole story. I think that is also (especially) true for Jefferson - a 5th year senior leader and key defender. I can see a potential case for Meeks. If you adjust current stats (again, I agree it isn't the whole story, but we can both at least try to be objective and stats are at least that) for minutes played, Meeks outscores Amile and outrebounds him (also more steals per minute). Amile leads Meeks in assists per minute and blocks per minute (along better FG and FT%). If I'm not being a homer and just looking at objective measures, I'd have to give the edge to Meeks.
It's pretty hard to make the case for Hicks. His points per minute is only very slightly greater than Amile's and his FT% is much better (almost 80% is impressive). Otherwise, Amile leads in everything. Hicks even turns it over more than Amile (Meeks less).
Amile does accumulate stats because he plays more minutes than Hicks/Meeks. That is why I adjusted everything down based on minutes. Still, Amile is one of the more efficient players around. I know a lot of people want to discount his double-double average last year before the injury saying "well that was against the non-conference schedule." But Amile is definitely within striking distance of the all time highest FG% at Duke. He is also an incredible offensive rebounder. Most of Duke's offense goes through its guards (as opposed to UNC which tends to be post centered) and so Amile is doing a lot of his work getting "trash" points like offensive putbacks - hustle plays. So his points come as the second or third option

 

[gunslingerdick]

I totally agree that stats don't tell the whole story. I think that is also (especially) true for Jefferson - a 5th year senior leader and key defender. I can see a potential case for Meeks. If you adjust current stats (again, I agree it isn't the whole story, but we can both at least try to be objective and stats are at least that) for minutes played, Meeks outscores Amile and outrebounds him (also more steals per minute). Amile leads Meeks in assists per minute and blocks per minute (along better FG and FT%). If I'm not being a homer and just looking at objective measures, I'd have to give the edge to Meeks.
It's pretty hard to make the case for Hicks. His points per minute is only very slightly greater than Amile's and his FT% is much better (almost 80% is impressive). Otherwise, Amile leads in everything. Hicks even turns it over more than Amile (Meeks less).
Amile does accumulate stats because he plays more minutes than Hicks/Meeks. That is why I adjusted everything down based on minutes. Still, Amile is one of the more efficient players around. I know a lot of people want to discount his double-double average last year before the injury saying "well that was against the non-conference schedule." But Amile is definitely within striking distance of the all time highest FG% at Duke. He is also an incredible offensive rebounder. Most of Duke's offense goes through its guards (as opposed to UNC which tends to be post centered) and so Amile is doing a lot of his work getting "trash" points like offensive putbacks - hustle plays. So his points come as the second or third option

I acknowledged his hustle and leadership in the first post in which I referenced him.

If you concede that it is indeed close, why would you feel the need to take me to task for stating that I would take Hicks and Meeks over him? It seemed as if you were looking for a fight. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and apologize for my initial reaction towards you although the way it read was of a sarcastic nature (asking if I like them as people as if there was no way someone would choose either of them over Jefferson).

I guess we've settled it now - all 3 are pretty close as far as what they bring to the table and that it indeed would not be crazy for someone to prefer any of them over the others. Glad we worked that out.

 

[dukephysics]

I acknowledged his hustle and leadership in the first post in which I referenced him.

If you concede that it is indeed close, why would you feel the need to take me to task for stating that I would take Hicks and Meeks over him? It seemed as if you were looking for a fight. I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt and apologize for my initial reaction towards you although the way it read was of a sarcastic nature (asking if I like them as people as if there was no way someone would choose either of them over Jefferson).

I guess we've settled it now - all 3 are pretty close as far as what they bring to the table and that it indeed would not be crazy for someone to prefer any of them over the others. Glad we worked that out.

I try not to come here to start arguments. It's a UNC board and I'm not trying to be a troll over here.
I thought Amile would look much better than those two. It turns out Amile and Meeks are close. And we'll disagree on "close" on Hicks but I won't argue with you.
I questioned it because I thought the stats would be more in Amile's favor than they turned out to be. But then I didn't try to paint some homer picture - and neither did you. If it sounded sarcastic, that wasn't my aim. Many posters without a history of positive exchanges tend to get into this "I never said....." exchange and I didn't want to assume you meant anything that you didn't actually say. If I *think* you mean something that I don't agree with, I want to make sure that is what you actually mean before disagreeing. Again, never my intention to troll you here. I thought you meant that you preferred them as players (and no I don't think it's an unreasonable preference - any more than preferring Amile to Meeks/Hicks is).

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

They have not played a "true road" game yet and we will see what happens when they play a good ACC team on the road. They do not have a point guard and their defense is still pretty weak.

Having said this, Luke West Kenard is a lottery pick if he declares for the NBA. This kid is the closest player I have seen in years that plays like Hall of Famer Jerry West of the Los Angeles Lakers. I hate Duke more than any UNC fan, but this kid is the real deal. Don't be surprised if K-Rat convinces Kenard to come back. As I said a few weeks ago, Trip blew his chance to be a first round pick last year. Now Trip looks like he will go in the second round. I doubt Trip will average more than 10-12 points a game for the rest of the season. Tatum, Kenard and Amile will get the majority of the points. Kenard is the key to Duke winning a title.

lol @ calling Kennard a lottery pick. Some websites are saying he will go undrafted, most are calling him a second rounder. None (that I have seen) have put him even in the back end of the first round. He can't play defense. Ask Jimmer Fredette what happens when you can't guard your man (answer: you play in China and drop 50+ points). Luke Kennard is a very good college player but I think its pretty obvious that you are making him out to be the next Larry Bird just so you can blame something else on Coach K if and when he comes back for his junior season.

 

[Butterbutt44]

Yeah as I said up thread Luke Kennard is a very good offensive player, but at this point in time he is not a lottery pick in anyones reality-or imagination, which we have here in abundance.

 

[TRU CANE]

Harry Giles tore his ACL during the first week of November in 2015.

Dennis Smith Jr tore his ACL during the first week of August in 2015.

Plenty of young, talented players—many of them point guards—have come back from ACL injuries.

Kyle Lowry tore his ACL at Villanova, and last season was best player on a 56-win Toronto Raptors team. Baron Davis tore his during his freshman year at UCLA, and later became an NBA Allstar.

Harry Giles will be fine. He will play for Duke if he and his family want him to play and if the world class medical team at Duke gives him the ok to play. And the kid absolutely deserves it with all that he's been through and if he does play I hope he solidifies his status as a top pick and shut people up.

 

[Steat]

Harry Giles tore his ACL during the first week of November in 2015.

Dennis Smith Jr tore his ACL during the first week of August in 2015.

Plenty of young, talented players—many of them point guards—have come back from ACL injuries.

Kyle Lowry tore his ACL at Villanova, and last season was best player on a 56-win Toronto Raptors team. Baron Davis tore his during his freshman year at UCLA, and later became an NBA Allstar.

Harry Giles will be fine. He will play for Duke if he and his family want him to play and if the world class medical team at Duke gives him the ok to play. And the kid absolutely deserves it with all that he's been through and if he does play I hope he solidifies his status as a top pick and shut people up.

You failed to mention a very important point. Harry" China Shop" Giles has had 2 ACL surgeries and a third scope surgery early this fall. None of the players you mentioned has had more than one surgery. We have a lot of back and forth banter on these boards, but there is not one person on this board that does not wish Giles a full recovery. Having said this, by playing he is taking a big risk and if he hurts his knee again his career may be over. There is not one prudent financial person that I know that would recommend Giles play basket basketball this season for Duke. If he plays and gets hurt, I'm going to be all over you and everyone else on the Duke board. I have challenged your entire board to start a Go Fund Me drive for Giles if he gets hurt again all I have come across are crickets. You guys need to step up to the plate! So, since you are the most recent Dookie to challenge me on this issue perhaps you would take the lead to set-up a Go Fund Me page for Giles if he gets hurt. Do, we have a deal? I will contribute $1,000 after $10,000 is raised. Oh, crickets again..LMFAO

 

[DSouthr]

Harry Giles tore his ACL during the first week of November in 2015.

Dennis Smith Jr tore his ACL during the first week of August in 2015.

Plenty of young, talented players—many of them point guards—have come back from ACL injuries.

Kyle Lowry tore his ACL at Villanova, and last season was best player on a 56-win Toronto Raptors team. Baron Davis tore his during his freshman year at UCLA, and later became an NBA Allstar.

Harry Giles will be fine. He will play for Duke if he and his family want him to play and if the world class medical team at Duke gives him the ok to play. And the kid absolutely deserves it with all that he's been through and if he does play I hope he solidifies his status as a top pick and shut people up.

So, Lowery, Dennis Smith, and Baron Davis had multiple knee surgery before ever playi9ng a single college game? I did not know that...

 

[Steat]

lol @ calling Kennard a lottery pick. Some websites are saying he will go undrafted, most are calling him a second rounder. None (that I have seen) have put him even in the back end of the first round. He can't play defense. Ask Jimmer Fredette what happens when you can't guard your man (answer: you play in China and drop 50+ points). Luke Kennard is a very good college player but I think its pretty obvious that you are making him out to be the next Larry Bird just so you can blame something else on Coach K if and when he comes back for his junior season.

There are a lot of players in the NBA that can't play defense. If I recall Fredette was a top 3 pick. If Luke West Kennard keeps putting up the numbers and continue to perform the way he does he is a lotto pick. That's my opinion. Never thought I would support a Duke player more than his own board. You guys should be hoping that I'm right. He is a much better player than Trip. In fact, Luke West Kennard is a better pro prospect than Trip. Take a look at this You Tube video and tell me Kennard is not the second coming of Jerry West.

 

[BOOGIEMAN1914]

You failed to mention a very important point. Harry" China Shop" Giles has had 2 ACL surgeries and a third scope surgery early this fall. None of the players you mentioned has had more than one surgery. We have a lot of back and forth banter on these boards, but there is not one person on this board that does not wish Giles a full recovery. Having said this, by playing he is taking a big risk and if he hurts his knee again his career may be over. There is not one prudent financial person that I know that would recommend Giles play basket basketball this season for Duke. If he plays and gets hurt, I'm going to be all over you and everyone else on the Duke board. I have challenged your entire board to start a Go Fund Me drive for Giles if he gets hurt again all I have come across are crickets. You guys need to step up to the plate! So, since you are the most recent Dookie to challenge me on this issue perhaps you would take the lead to set-up a Go Fund Me page for Giles if he gets hurt. Do, we have a deal? I will contribute $1,000 after $10,000 is raised. Oh, crickets again..LMFAO

yeah, BUT......he didnt reinjure the original injury...duke did the 2nd surgery not the 1st.....the scope by duke was cleanup on the original.....technically arent his knees now structurally better?....they have all had 1 surgery on 1 knee, right???...and none have reinjured the knee again, right???

 

[Steat]

yeah, BUT......he didnt reinjure the original injury...duke did the 2nd surgery not the 1st.....the scope by duke was cleanup on the original.....technically arent his knees now structurally better?....they have all had 1 surgery on 1 knee, right???...and none have reinjured the knee again, right???

"Can't Touch That" Boogie, why are we debating this? There is noting you or any of your fellow Duke fans can get me to change my mind. Let him play and lets see what happens.

 

[topps coach]

There are a lot of players in the NBA that can't play defense. If I recall Fredette was a top 3 pick. If Luke West Kennard keeps putting up the numbers and continue to perform the way he does he is a lotto pick. That's my opinion. Never thought I would support a Duke player more than his own board. You guys should be hoping that I'm right. He is a much better player than Trip. In fact, Luke West Kennard is a better pro prospect than Trip. Take a look at this You Tube video and tell me Kennard is not the second coming of Jerry West.

View embedded media

I love Luke but comparing him to Jerry West is beyond ridiculous

 

[UNC71-00]

I love Luke but comparing him to Jerry West is beyond ridiculous

He's just saying it before the Duke fans do- Steats a leader, not a follower.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

If Meeks and Hicks are about comparable with Jefferson, I guess that must mean they're the next Kareems too?

Jimmer was the 10th pick in the draft, not the 3rd.

I don't think Trip will be a great NBA player. I think he's talented enough, but I think he'll get his ass kicked when he pulls his shenanigans in the league, and who knows how he bounces back from that. I like Kennard as much as I can like a Duke player, he's got game - and doesn't act like a giant douche like the majority of his teammates and predecessors.

 

[HeLooks2MuchLikeDave]

There are a lot of players in the NBA that can't play defense. If I recall Fredette was a top 3 pick. If Luke West Kennard keeps putting up the numbers and continue to perform the way he does he is a lotto pick. That's my opinion. Never thought I would support a Duke player more than his own board. You guys should be hoping that I'm right. He is a much better player than Trip. In fact, Luke West Kennard is a better pro prospect than Trip. Take a look at this You Tube video and tell me Kennard is not the second coming of Jerry West.

View embedded media

Luke Kennard will have about as good of an NBA career as Nate Britt had a college career. Hope I'm wrong

 

[Steat]

Luke Kennard will have about as good of an NBA career as Nate Britt had a college career. Hope I'm wrong

This will be Luke West Kennard last year at Duke. He is that good and K will not be able to hold him back. Start weeping! I have tried to build up some hate for this kid but just can't do it.