Quick stuff (State game)...

[DSouthr]

I was with you D on JWash until a few weeks ago. I wrote that I was wrong and couldn't believe how much of a nonfactor he was.

Should have kept my mouth shut a few more weeks.

Looks like he might be coming around. Just imagine what he could be with a focused summer of lower body development.

I can for sure understand anyone feeling like Jalen was not playing up to the level we need him to, I understand folks watching him and thinking he has a motor problem. I just didn't and still do not agree his motor was or is now the problem. He was playing to me like a very confused player, just not sure of his role or how to achieve what was asked of him, a kid with zero confidence. Kid going thru that will look lazy darn near every time. I think you really have to work with a kid like that, you have to show him you believe in him even when he may not, you have to get him working to his strengths more than his weaknesses.

You have to do with him what we did for Tyson, run sets that are intended for him to get his shot off, focus on getting him feel good ops, mandate your guards to actively look for him and in no un-certain terms tell Jalen to shoot it like Hubert was screaming at Tyson when he was hesitating to shoot it. But that didn't happen,rather the kid would make a mistake and be pulled after 3mins and sit most of the rest of the game, only made his mind set even worse. I felt, still feel this staff did a very poor job of managing this kid, almost to the level of being set up to fail?

I am going to tell you right now, IMO Jalen is the KEY to unlocking this team's real potential, he is the Brady Manek factor. It isn't that I see him as one of the best talents we have ever had, it is that I see him have the ability to do something that no other player on our roster can do. His jump shooting would force big man defenders, typically the other teams center, to follow him outside of the paint, you have to put size on a long guy that is a outside shooting threat. That takes that opposing center out of the paint, it clears the paint if our power forward move his feet for our guards to drive and not have to deal thru a shot blocker at the end of that drive. Our guards driving one on one against their defenders, I will take that every time. That is a thing Bacot could not do that Jalen can and has shown us that he can.

 

[DSouthr]

I agree with almost 100% of what I read on here. I do think the staff is rewarding JWash's increased confidence with more opportunities. They could not allow him to be the flash in zone O until he became willing to face the basket! Now he is and we see more chances. I screamed at him to shoot multiple times in the last few games, and he is finally showing us he is willing. I agree that he needs strength and a bit more dog in him. He will get better at holding position and resisting peeps who want to body him on shots or move him off his spots as he gets strong/more confident!

TP, IMO Jalen, like most of this team, his work on the defensive end is spurred by his feeling good about his offensive play, the better he plays on the offensive end the better his defense becomes, the more aggressive he plays. We really only have 1 guy right now whose offense is ignited by his defense, Seth (thou I see some traits of that in Drake).

 

[big_deez]

RJ is playing better but I'm waiting for consecutive "real RJ" games before I'll know he's back. He's had a few "he's back!" games that reverted to struggles the next time out.

Teams shifting their defensive focus to Ian is helping, I think.

It's an interesting feedback loop. The better Ian does, the better RJ can do, and vice versa.

WWJD, yea, I think you're right. Up until recently, it seems the guys were scared to pull the trigger and did everything to avoid it. They mostly deferred to RJ to take over for obvious reasons. In turn, it seemed RJ realized this(conditioned behavior?) and just had to force things, resulting in this "hero ball" stuff. Now as you mention, Ian is successfully taking a lot of the attack but I also see Drake doing this as well. Yea I know, just stating the obvious here but it's still an interesting discussion. Yes, it will be interesting to see how RJ performs with others stepping up. Another big question though, why has Tyson not been able to contribute? Will he at some point? Maybe that ship has sailed...

 

[DSouthr]

RJ is playing better but I'm waiting for consecutive "real RJ" games before I'll know he's back. He's had a few "he's back!" games that reverted to struggles the next time out.

Teams shifting their defensive focus to Ian is helping, I think.

It's an interesting feedback loop. The better Ian does, the better RJ can do, and vice versa.

Kind of struggling to say this just right and not seem as if I am totally negative toward RJ because I am not. But I don't think our looking at RJ as the key to this team and he be a volume shooter like he was IMO to often last season is best for this team. I believe there is way to much scoring ability spread across this team for RJ to be taking 20+ shots a game and average 20pts, that just is not efficient. Now of course, when he gets on a heater let him roll but we don't need the 20ft step backs with a hand in your face heat checks and we were getting way to many of those from him up to the last couple games. RJ, like most all players, will see his efficiency increase and his team benefit from his taking clean open shots and hold the hard step backs for emergency situations like the shot clock has ticked down.

Realize, every time RJ is doubled someone else is open, find that open guy in a position that he can finish comfortably. Being a decoy that draws multiple defender beats the heck out of taking bad shots that go the other way for easy scores.

 

[ACokeForRoy]

Kind of struggling to say this just right and not seem as if I am totally negative toward RJ because I am not. But I don't think our looking at RJ as the key to this team and he be a volume shooter like he was IMO to often last season is best for this team. I believe there is way to much scoring ability spread across this team for RJ to be taking 20+ shots a game and average 20pts, that just is not efficient. Now of course, when he gets on a heater let him roll but we don't need the 20ft step backs with a hand in your face heat checks and we were getting way to many of those from him up to the last couple games. RJ, like most all players, will see his efficiency increase and his team benefit from his taking clean open shots and hold the hard step backs for emergency situations like the shot clock has ticked down.

Realize, every time RJ is doubled someone else is open, find that open guy in a position that he can finish comfortably. Being a decoy that draws multiple defender beats the heck out of taking bad shots that go the other way for easy scores.

RJ has to stop dribbling the air out of the ball at the top of the key for 10-12 seconds. The ball should move, move and then move more... Whenever he gets the ball at the top and starts dribbling my anxiety level skyrockets.. Then the offense hurries with a shot clock at 10 seconds the we rush a shot or turn the ball over.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Kind of struggling to say this just right and not seem as if I am totally negative toward RJ because I am not. But I don't think our looking at RJ as the key to this team and he be a volume shooter like he was IMO to often last season is best for this team. I believe there is way to much scoring ability spread across this team for RJ to be taking 20+ shots a game and average 20pts, that just is not efficient. Now of course, when he gets on a heater let him roll but we don't need the 20ft step backs with a hand in your face heat checks and we were getting way to many of those from him up to the last couple games. RJ, like most all players, will see his efficiency increase and his team benefit from his taking clean open shots and hold the hard step backs for emergency situations like the shot clock has ticked down.

Realize, every time RJ is doubled someone else is open, find that open guy in a position that he can finish comfortably. Being a decoy that draws multiple defender beats the heck out of taking bad shots that go the other way for easy scores.

I'm not saying RJ and Hansbrough are the same but after carrying the team for 3 years and winning NPOY, Hansbrough backslide a bit in 2009. Still a great year; but it isn't always possible to keep improving, or even hold the line. RJ's slippage is more noticeable, but it's a similar situation.

Another thing that's similar is that in Hansbrough's final season, he was still a star, but not the star. That was Lawson (Green and Ellington weren't chopped liver, either). This year it's looking to be Jackson (with Drake, Seth and maybe Elliot in the not-chopped-liver category).

 

[gary-7]

RJ has to stop dribbling the air out of the ball at the top of the key for 10-12 seconds. The ball should move, move and then move more... Whenever he gets the ball at the top and starts dribbling my anxiety level skyrockets.. Then the offense hurries with a shot clock at 10 seconds the we rush a shot or turn the ball over.

100% this ^^^. RJ's dribbling is generally inversely proportional to our efficiency.

To his credit, he's gotten better about not pounding the rock. Earlier in the season, even with Elliot in the game, once RJ got the ball, it may as well have disappeared into a black hole, as everyone else (with the possible exception of a screener) would just stand around.

Look, there's a place for "two-man game" stuff, but with RJ that should be initiated in short bursts and ideally off a wing catch. Oppponents have learned since 2022 to not let RJ get in mismatches with their Bigs, so the quicker he can shoot or attack, the better.

The only guy I wanna see isoed high at the top is Eliot because of his capability to break guys down and create over the entire floor.

 

[alabamaheel]

RJ has to stop dribbling the air out of the ball at the top of the key for 10-12 seconds. The ball should move, move and then move more... Whenever he gets the ball at the top and starts dribbling my anxiety level skyrockets.. Then the offense hurries with a shot clock at 10 seconds the we rush a shot or turn the ball over.

Idk if you’ve noticed but he does it later in the game more often. I think it’s coached. Slow down and use some clock. I don’t like it but I’ve noticed it nearing the end of games. Gary has eluded to it also. While I said I don’t like it, there is one aspect that it does help and that’s drawing the defense and cause them to move. Therefore his assist numbers are up because he’s passing it a little more lol. It kills me to watch EC in the half court because he’s the opposite. It’s like the ball is a million degrees and he just doesn’t want it. Make the defense react, if not, then you don’t even have to be guarded. Open court is a little different. He’s got that down for sure. I believe they are all improving, especially the freshman. In turn that’s helped RJ a ton. Help on scoring mentally is what’s helped his game imo.

 

[gary-7]

Idk if you’ve noticed but he does it later in the game more often. I think it’s coached. Slow down and use some clock. I don’t like it but I’ve noticed it nearing the end of games. Gary has eluded to it also. While I said I don’t like it, there is one aspect that it does help and that’s drawing the defense and cause them to move. Therefore his assist numbers are up because he’s passing it a little more lol. It kills me to watch EC in the half court because he’s the opposite. It’s like the ball is a million degrees and he just doesn’t want it. Make the defense react, if not, then you don’t even have to be guarded. Open court is a little different. He’s got that down for sure. I believe they are all improving, especially the freshman. In turn that’s helped RJ a ton. Help on scoring mentally is what’s helped his game imo.

I think a lot of what you are saying falls back to our nasty habit of deferring to RJ in general, something that plagued us for much of the season. If there's a "blame" for this, I would place it equally on Hubert and RJ --- RJ for trying to do too much, Hubert for not tempering it sooner. There's a line between trying to "get your guy going", and defauting to iso-ball.

Good news is that Hubert recently has talked to RJ about letting the game come to him more and exploiting the number advantages we get when defenses blitz him. This also points up the VITAL factor of having Eliot running the show -- RJ at Point too often regenerates the bad habits.

Here is where I also hafta put some blame on EC. He has too often deferred once the ball got to RJ (or defaulted to those useless pass-backs in half court) instead of demanding the rock back once an action stalled. I recall some of that early in 2015-16 when Joel would reflexively defer to Marcus too often. Good news was that our chemistry started to gel that season once JB asserted himself more as the Leader Dog.

I said with full confidence preseason that for us to reach our potenial, this needs to be "Eliot's team", and that falls on Hubert, RJ and EC hmself to get us to that point. Much of Saturday was a good step in tha direction, but having EC on the bench in too many critical stretch minutes was a mistake in the wrong direction. After a quick blow to cool down from those Groover TOs, he should've been right back in there. Fortunately, he was there in clutch time, which became winning time.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

I think a lot of what you are saying falls back to our nasty habit of deferring to RJ in general, something that plagued us for much of the season. If there's a "blame" for this, I would place it equally on Hubert and RJ --- RJ for trying to do too much, Hubert for not tempering it sooner. There's a line between trying to "get your guy going", and defauting to iso-ball.

Good news is that Hubert recently has talked to RJ about letting the game come to him more and exploiting the number advantages we get when defenses blitz him. This also points up the VITAL factor of having Eliot running the show -- RJ at Point too often regenerates the bad habits.

Here is where I also hafta put some blame on EC. He has too often deferred once the ball got to RJ (or defaulted to those useless pass-backs in half court) instead of demanding the rock back once an action stalled. I recall some of that early in 2015-16 when Joel would reflexively defer to Marcus too often. Good news was that our chemistry started to gel that season once JB asserted himself more as the Leader Dog.

I said with full confidence preseason that for us to reach our potenial, this needs to be "Eliot's team", and that falls on Hubert, RJ and EC hmself to get us to that point. Much of Saturday was a good step in tha direction, but having EC on the bench in too many critical stretch minutes was a mistake in the wrong direction. After a quick blow to cool down from those Groover TOs, he should've been right back in there. Fortunately, he was there in clutch time, which became winning time.

The other thing of course is that for the ball to be in EC's hands, he has to be on the floor.

 

[alabamaheel]

I think a lot of what you are saying falls back to our nasty habit of deferring to RJ in general, something that plagued us for much of the season. If there's a "blame" for this, I would place it equally on Hubert and RJ --- RJ for trying to do too much, Hubert for not tempering it sooner. There's a line between trying to "get your guy going", and defauting to iso-ball.

Good news is that Hubert recently has talked to RJ about letting the game come to him more and exploiting the number advantages we get when defenses blitz him. This also points up the VITAL factor of having Eliot running the show -- RJ at Point too often regenerates the bad habits.

Here is where I also hafta put some blame on EC. He has too often deferred once the ball got to RJ (or defaulted to those useless pass-backs in half court) instead of demanding the rock back once an action stalled. I recall some of that early in 2015-16 when Joel would reflexively defer to Marcus too often. Good news was that our chemistry started to gel that season once JB asserted himself more as the Leader Dog.

I said with full confidence preseason that for us to reach our potenial, this needs to be "Eliot's team", and that falls on Hubert, RJ and EC hmself to get us to that point. Much of Saturday was a good step in tha direction, but having EC on the bench in too many critical stretch minutes was a mistake in the wrong direction. After a quick blow to cool down from those Groover TOs, he should've been right back in there. Fortunately, he was there in clutch time, which became winning time.

You mentioning Marcus took me back to a crazy memory of him being horrible and bad off until the second half’s of games. lol. You remember? Literally like clock work or a switch, he would hit shots or settle in.

 

[Bubspub88]

A road win in conference is always nice but the game should not have been that close. There were some bad calls that helped state erase the 9 point deficit but there was also some poor execution by UNC in crunch time. I am glad Washington seems to have learned his role but can he take that critical step from spurts to consistency?

As of now UNC is squarely on the bubble, which has become the standard for Carolina in mid-January it seems. Unfortunately I watched dook's game and what I saw scares me. They are leading the league in scoring margin (+20), rebound margin (+9) and assists (18) per game). Their all-freshman frontcourt may be the best in the nation, and Flagg is showing he may actually live up the hype. If Scheyer does not try to coach I would take them against the field right now.

I am glad this team appears to be trending up but unfortunately as bad as the conference is this year there is hardly any room for error.

 

[big_deez]

I think a lot of what you are saying falls back to our nasty habit of deferring to RJ in general, something that plagued us for much of the season. If there's a "blame" for this, I would place it equally on Hubert and RJ --- RJ for trying to do too much, Hubert for not tempering it sooner. There's a line between trying to "get your guy going", and defauting to iso-ball.

Good news is that Hubert recently has talked to RJ about letting the game come to him more and exploiting the number advantages we get when defenses blitz him. This also points up the VITAL factor of having Eliot running the show -- RJ at Point too often regenerates the bad habits.

Here is where I also hafta put some blame on EC. He has too often deferred once the ball got to RJ (or defaulted to those useless pass-backs in half court) instead of demanding the rock back once an action stalled. I recall some of that early in 2015-16 when Joel would reflexively defer to Marcus too often. Good news was that our chemistry started to gel that season once JB asserted himself more as the Leader Dog.

I said with full confidence preseason that for us to reach our potenial, this needs to be "Eliot's team", and that falls on Hubert, RJ and EC hmself to get us to that point. Much of Saturday was a good step in tha direction, but having EC on the bench in too many critical stretch minutes was a mistake in the wrong direction. After a quick blow to cool down from those Groover TOs, he should've been right back in there. Fortunately, he was there in clutch time, which became winning time.

Great points here. In the past I do wonder how much Hubert is to blame for this; not necessarily for not "tempering it sooner" but actually encouraging this out of a level of desperation or a lack of confidence in the others when points are needed - "Get it to RJ!". However yes Gary, the good news is Hubert seemed to address this "hero ball" and as of late, we've all seen RJ becoming a more efficient player. On EC, I agree this needs to be his team, live and die by it as a pg. He still needs to be benched for a bit when he is stinking it up or pouting about calls, just like any other player. But for the most part, not using him in clutch time is a mistake. It's very clear he can break anyone down, is a dime and has great skill. If he would stop overthinking and overanalyzing every time he pulls the trigger, I think he would be a much better shooter. Opposing teams dare him to shoot, should he be taking them more often?

 

[gary-7]

. If he would stop overthinking and overanalyzing every time he pulls the trigger, I think he would be a much better shooter. Opposing teams dare him to shoot, should he be taking them more often?

Yes, he needs to confidently take 3s here and there early in games. I also liked that we called our corner 3 option for him on a baseline OB play early in rhe second half --- looked like it was going in but missed, but just like with JWash, he needs to step into the open looks and do so with a shooter's confidence.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Bottom line we need EC to be good for us to be good, when he is bad he is really body and when that happens we lose. Saturday he was really good, he played PG within himself and when he did setup teammates in good spots with good passes they helped him out by scoring.

His games go one way or the other in the first 5 minutes of the games, if he gets a couple of early fouls he changes and isn't the same player. He needs to keep his emotions in check and play with the flow even if things don't go his way.

 

[gary-7]

Bottom line we need EC to be good for us to be good, when he is bad he is really body and when that happens we lose. Saturday he was really good, he played PG within himself and when he did setup teammates in good spots with good passes they helped him out by scoring.

His games go one way or the other in the first 5 minutes of the games, if he gets a couple of early fouls he changes and isn't the same player. He needs to keep his emotions in check and play with the flow even if things don't go his way.

Everyone can see that he needs to keep his emotions in check better, but let's get back in the real world, shall we?
He is never "really bad" --- and AYFKM?... "they helped him out by scoring'???
LMAO. Just stop.

 

[DSouthr]

Great points here. In the past I do wonder how much Hubert is to blame for this; not necessarily for not "tempering it sooner" but actually encouraging this out of a level of desperation or a lack of confidence in the others when points are needed - "Get it to RJ!". However yes Gary, the good news is Hubert seemed to address this "hero ball" and as of late, we've all seen RJ becoming a more efficient player. On EC, I agree this needs to be his team, live and die by it as a pg. He still needs to be benched for a bit when he is stinking it up or pouting about calls, just like any other player. But for the most part, not using him in clutch time is a mistake. It's very clear he can break anyone down, is a dime and has great skill. If he would stop overthinking and overanalyzing every time he pulls the trigger, I think he would be a much better shooter. Opposing teams dare him to shoot, should he be taking them more often?

"In the past I do wonder how much Hubert is to blame for this; not necessarily for not "tempering it sooner" but actually encouraging this out of a level of desperation or a lack of confidence in the others when points are needed - "Get it to RJ!"."

deez, let me help you out with the answer for your question, how much is Hubert responsible, 100%. The coach is ALWAYS responsible, this could and should have been tempered very early season, it was not. And know what, a lot, maybe even most (not including me) wanted RJ to shoot himself hot and out of his funk. Never wonder whose responsibility it is when a guy shoots 5-20 in a game because no matter what anyone wants to tell you, it is always the coach's job to handle those things. Want further proof who was behind the "get it to RJ" deal, notice most every time Hubert calls that last few clicks of the clock before half time time out, who does he constantly draw the play up for, think the other team does not know the ball is going to RJ? LOL

Now on Cadeau, tell you EXACTLY what I would do with Cadeau. I would closely watch Cadeau for those lack of maturity moments, the argue calls, the bad body language. I would already know, Cadeau is about to go n to that mode where he throws the ball away, commits a silly foul, ect. I pull him from the game right then, even if I have to call a time out to do it. He would be brought to the bench and his seat would 100% of the time, for the rest of this season be beside Marcus Paige. Marcus's job for all games would be to mentor Cadeau, to talk him thru these issues and let Hubert know when the kid has the right mental state to get back in the game. Every time Cadeau picks up his second foul in the first half, out of the game and sits next to Marcus, at any point for the rest of this season that Cadeau is on the bench it is beside where ever Marcus is sitting. If Marcus sits in the press box, then Cadeau makes his way to the press box, period. IT would be a constant discussion between Marcus and Cadeau while he on the bench, pointing out what is going on and how Cadeau can play thru it. That would be Marcus's job, to baby sit and mentor Cadeau, you would see the kid flourish and this team be much better. I would very likely do the very same thing with Sean Maye for BOTH Withers and Washington when they are on the bench, you always sit beside your game mentor!

 

[dtodd4475]

I agree with almost 100% of what I read on here. I do think the staff is rewarding JWash's increased confidence with more opportunities. They could not allow him to be the flash in zone O until he became willing to face the basket! Now he is and we see more chances. I screamed at him to shoot multiple times in the last few games, and he is finally showing us he is willing. I agree that he needs strength and a bit more dog in him. He will get better at holding position and resisting peeps who want to body him on shots or move him off his spots as he gets strong/more confident!

I'm still hoping he develops confidence on the offensive end. On defense he is a strong weak side, off the ball, rim protector type, but still struggles on the ball in the paint, or drawn away from the paint.

With the limited front line options on this roster he is vital to contribute on both ends, going to have to play the ball. Steps in the right direction for sure. I hope he gains some confidence and grows into a Scott Williams type.

Don't normally love the wolves down taunts after the block, but in this case it was good to see Jalen bark a bit. Gotta get production from him.

 

[tarheels0015]

Throwback uniforms need to be permanent !! The uniforms look more like carolina than argyle

 

[big_deez]

"In the past I do wonder how much Hubert is to blame for this; not necessarily for not "tempering it sooner" but actually encouraging this out of a level of desperation or a lack of confidence in the others when points are needed - "Get it to RJ!"."

deez, let me help you out with the answer for your question, how much is Hubert responsible, 100%. The coach is ALWAYS responsible, this could and should have been tempered very early season, it was not. And know what, a lot, maybe even most (not including me) wanted RJ to shoot himself hot and out of his funk. Never wonder whose responsibility it is when a guy shoots 5-20 in a game because no matter what anyone wants to tell you, it is always the coach's job to handle those things. Want further proof who was behind the "get it to RJ" deal, notice most every time Hubert calls that last few clicks of the clock before half time time out, who does he constantly draw the play up for, think the other team does not know the ball is going to RJ? LOL

Now on Cadeau, tell you EXACTLY what I would do with Cadeau. I would closely watch Cadeau for those lack of maturity moments, the argue calls, the bad body language. I would already know, Cadeau is about to go n to that mode where he throws the ball away, commits a silly foul, ect. I pull him from the game right then, even if I have to call a time out to do it. He would be brought to the bench and his seat would 100% of the time, for the rest of this season be beside Marcus Paige. Marcus's job for all games would be to mentor Cadeau, to talk him thru these issues and let Hubert know when the kid has the right mental state to get back in the game. Every time Cadeau picks up his second foul in the first half, out of the game and sits next to Marcus, at any point for the rest of this season that Cadeau is on the bench it is beside where ever Marcus is sitting. If Marcus sits in the press box, then Cadeau makes his way to the press box, period. IT would be a constant discussion between Marcus and Cadeau while he on the bench, pointing out what is going on and how Cadeau can play thru it. That would be Marcus's job, to baby sit and mentor Cadeau, you would see the kid flourish and this team be much better. I would very likely do the very same thing with Sean Maye for BOTH Withers and Washington when they are on the bench, you always sit beside your game mentor!

DS, good stuff man, thanks for helping me out lmao... I totally agree with your take on RJ and Hubert. My point was to bring up the topic and discuss the fact that Hubert encouraged this hero ball from RJ for a long time for various reasons to now actually managing and using RJ within his strengths. It's like for the longest time RJ wasn't held accountable for anything. Yea, reading your take on EC, I see your point. A great talent but he really lets stuff get in his head, a maturity thing. Probably a good approach you mention for dealing with him, having MP mentor him to that level, especially during games. I'd love to see EC shooting much more, especially when opponents dare him. Things would really open up for him if JWash and RJ continue their recent pattern of play. Oh and of course if Ian continues to dominate, heh. It's been really nice watching the team play so well and grind the last few games but honestly, the competition hasn't been that great.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Everyone can see that he needs to keep his emotions in check better, but let's get back in the real world, shall we?
He is never "really bad" --- and AYFKM?... "they helped him out by scoring'???
LMAO. Just stop.

Dude you are the one that bitches about blow assist, and him making plays and them not capitalizing on it. Do I need to go back and find those post to remind you. When a PG make all the right plays it makes said PG look better and helps him out by scoring the basketball.

Yes he has times he is really bad at times.

SMU 4 TO 4 Fouls 1 assist
UCLA 5 TO 5 Assist
GT 7 TO 4 assist 1 of 6 from 3
Alabama 4 TO 4 Assist 1 point

 

[gary-7]

Dude you are the one that bitches about blow assist, and him making plays and them not capitalizing on it. Do I need to go back and find those post to remind you. When a PG make all the right plays it makes said PG look better and helps him out by scoring the basketball.

Stop. Please. You're making my side hurt laughing at you. Apparently you don't seem to understand that it's the assistER that helps out the assistEE. 😂

I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. If you knew what the heck you were looking at, or could see past your silly false narrative, you'd also know Eliot doesn't need to anyone to "make him look better". Moreover, that's not how the game works, bubba. Do yourself and everyone here a favor and just sit these basketball threads out.

 

[notashelbyfan]

Stop. Please. You're making my side hurt laughing at you. Apparently you don't seem to understand that it's the assistER that helps out the assistEE. 😂

I guess I shouldn't be surprised though. If you knew what the heck you were looking at, or could see past your silly false narrative, you'd also know Eliot doesn't need to anyone to "make him look better". Moreover, that's not how the game works, bubba. Do yourself and everyone here a favor and just sit these basketball threads out.

Really, so when a player takes a pass from a player it doesn't help the passer to look better if he makes the shot? You can spin this anyway you want but EC can NEVER have an assist if the other player doesn't help him out and make the shot?

And are you implying he was not bad in the above games I listed?

 

[NathanFielder]

If this new better defense is sustainable, then it provides more options for this team to grind out wins. Earlier in the season, when they absolutely could not defend, it forced them to have to make a pretty high number of 3s or a high number of FTs. I'm not sure how sustainable it is, but some encouraging signs. Better rim defense, better 3PT defense. Hopefully that continues.

I certainly don't think it's sustainable for this team to win consistently if they don't shoot FTs like they did against NC State. I think that's going to be a key going forward, so might have gotten away with one there

Food for thought:
This team is now 3-0 in games with fewer than 70 possessions (Hawaii, Notre Dame, and NC State). In fairness, they played really well against SMU and that was a 75 possession game. But I'm of the belief that this team isn't good enough to handle playing a break neck pace. I think they struggle too much defensively and that forces them to absolutely have to make 3s, which they have not proven to be good at this season.

I've reiterated before that no one will agree with me that UNC should play slower (not slow, like the NC State game). But I think a 68-70 possession game gives them some flexibility and lessens the absolute necessity for them to make 3s.

Encouraging that they're figuring out ways to win these tossup games. It's not going to be perfect with this team so I do think it's important to keep expectations realistic. It's nice to see the opponent make some mistakes late in games and nice to see UNC capitalize on those opportunities.

Can't say that a road win at a pretty limited NC State team will change how I feel about this team, but there are at least some encouraging signs you can point to and hopefully the team can build on.

 

[gary-7]

If this new better defense is sustainable, then it provides more options for this team to grind out wins. Earlier in the season, when they absolutely could not defend, it forced them to have to make a pretty high number of 3s or a high number of FTs. I'm not sure how sustainable it is, but some encouraging signs. Better rim defense, better 3PT defense. Hopefully that continues.

I certainly don't think it's sustainable for this team to win consistently if they don't shoot FTs like they did against NC State. I think that's going to be a key going forward, so might have gotten away with one there

Food for thought:
This team is now 3-0 in games with fewer than 70 possessions (Hawaii, Notre Dame, and NC State). In fairness, they played really well against SMU and that was a 75 possession game. But I'm of the belief that this team isn't good enough to handle playing a break neck pace. I think they struggle too much defensively and that forces them to absolutely have to make 3s, which they have not proven to be good at this season.

I've reiterated before that no one will agree with me that UNC should play slower (not slow, like the NC State game). But I think a 68-70 possession game gives them some flexibility and lessens the absolute necessity for them to make 3s.

Encouraging that they're figuring out ways to win these tossup games. It's not going to be perfect with this team so I do think it's important to keep expectations realistic. It's nice to see the opponent make some mistakes late in games and nice to see UNC capitalize on those opportunities.

Can't say that a road win at a pretty limited NC State team will change how I feel about this team, but there are at least some encouraging signs you can point to and hopefully the team can build on.

Our transition points staked us to enable this win, not slow tempo. When we bogged down in too many half-court sets, we were playing at State's pace and sure enough, they'd catch up. And then late, it was once again transition (sparked by defense) that got us back just enough to allow the last 40 second heroics.

We don't have to be tearing it up from 3 to play at a fast tempo. In fact, tempo can mitigate that need. Those games you pointed to with fewer than 70 possessions were needlessly close, TBH. While I too think it's encouraging that the team has found ways to win those close ones, personally I'd much rather games not come down to that.

 

[TPFKAPFS]

Dungs entire statement is not the least bit credible. The team has shown they are capable of playing high level defense all year long! The issue is they were not playing it for entire games. This team has proven it can compete and win at fast, medium, and slow pace and has not had to count on free throws or 3s to guarantee wins. Effort, execution, and heart are what has carried them to runs that showed they can compete with anyone.

The defense is clearly sustainable but it does depend on maximum effort. The beautiful part of this is peeps complained about hero ball from RJ even though it was necessary and got us deep in the Tourney. Peeps complained about both playing ad not playing Tyson. Peeps whined about Hubs not developing players despite what they see in JWash, Seth, Ian, Drake, JWit, and EC! Peeps call the teams we win against "lesser competition" but when we lost to Top 10 teams called it a failure of coaching or sorry players! Peeps gnashed their teeth about playing too many sets despite them leading almost invariably to wide open looks THEN complained about us not calling them at crunch time!

This team is shaping up well and we now have multiple peeps who can step up and be counted on in crunch time. We have peeps turning into grown arsed men right in front of us! This is a fun group who still have every single goal on the table and at least one fan who believes in them enough to think they will accomplish them!

 

[tarwhiz]

Dungs entire statement is not the least bit credible. The team has shown they are capable of playing high level defense all year long! The issue is they were not playing it for entire games. This team has proven it can compete and win at fast, medium, and slow pace and has not had to count on free throws or 3s to guarantee wins. Effort, execution, and heart are what has carried them to runs that showed they can compete with anyone.

The defense is clearly sustainable but it does depend on maximum effort. The beautiful part of this is peeps complained about hero ball from RJ even though it was necessary and got us deep in the Tourney. Peeps complained about both playing ad not playing Tyson. Peeps whined about Hubs not developing players despite what they see in JWash, Seth, Ian, Drake, JWit, and EC! Peeps call the teams we win against "lesser competition" but when we lost to Top 10 teams called it a failure of coaching or sorry players! Peeps gnashed their teeth about playing too many sets despite them leading almost invariably to wide open looks THEN complained about us not calling them at crunch time!

This team is shaping up well and we now have multiple peeps who can step up and be counted on in crunch time. We have peeps turning into grown arsed men right in front of us! This is a fun group who still have every single goal on the table and at least one fan who believes in them enough to think they will accomplish them!

"Dungs entire statement is not the least bit credible. The team has shown they are capable of playing high level defense all year long! The issue is they were not playing it for entire games"

I gotta disagree on this statement above.
Carolina has given up 90 plus points like 5 or 6 times this year right?
So I guess they were playing " High level defense" in the parts of those games where 90 points weren't being dropped on their heads?
This is a flawed team, and not just in construction. Playing 2 small guards is not conducive to a good defense, and it is maximized even more when you don't try multiple defenses to offset those built in deficiencies.
I want to start feeling good about this team and the direction they are headed as much as you, but maybe our recent defensive gains are due to ND and State both being inept and SMU just having an off night?
I do think we are getting better, but let's at least wait until after the Wake game to say we turned a corner.
If Wake drops 80 plus.......😒

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

"In the past I do wonder how much Hubert is to blame for this; not necessarily for not "tempering it sooner" but actually encouraging this out of a level of desperation or a lack of confidence in the others when points are needed - "Get it to RJ!"."

deez, let me help you out with the answer for your question, how much is Hubert responsible, 100%. The coach is ALWAYS responsible, this could and should have been tempered very early season, it was not. And know what, a lot, maybe even most (not including me) wanted RJ to shoot himself hot and out of his funk. Never wonder whose responsibility it is when a guy shoots 5-20 in a game because no matter what anyone wants to tell you, it is always the coach's job to handle those things. Want further proof who was behind the "get it to RJ" deal, notice most every time Hubert calls that last few clicks of the clock before half time time out, who does he constantly draw the play up for, think the other team does not know the ball is going to RJ? LOL

Now on Cadeau, tell you EXACTLY what I would do with Cadeau. I would closely watch Cadeau for those lack of maturity moments, the argue calls, the bad body language. I would already know, Cadeau is about to go n to that mode where he throws the ball away, commits a silly foul, ect. I pull him from the game right then, even if I have to call a time out to do it. He would be brought to the bench and his seat would 100% of the time, for the rest of this season be beside Marcus Paige. Marcus's job for all games would be to mentor Cadeau, to talk him thru these issues and let Hubert know when the kid has the right mental state to get back in the game. Every time Cadeau picks up his second foul in the first half, out of the game and sits next to Marcus, at any point for the rest of this season that Cadeau is on the bench it is beside where ever Marcus is sitting. If Marcus sits in the press box, then Cadeau makes his way to the press box, period. IT would be a constant discussion between Marcus and Cadeau while he on the bench, pointing out what is going on and how Cadeau can play thru it. That would be Marcus's job, to baby sit and mentor Cadeau, you would see the kid flourish and this team be much better. I would very likely do the very same thing with Sean Maye for BOTH Withers and Washington when they are on the bench, you always sit beside your game mentor!

I get what you're saying, but I have no way of knowing whether Marcus would be good in that role. Just because Hubert was a great shooter didn't mean he was a great teacher of shooting. Similarly, just because Marcus was a composed, cerebral PG/SG doesn't mean he can teach composure and using your head.

Then again, who else do we have? Might as well give it a shot.

 

[NathanFielder]

Dungs entire statement is not the least bit credible. The team has shown they are capable of playing high level defense all year long! The issue is they were not playing it for entire games. This team has proven it can compete and win at fast, medium, and slow pace and has not had to count on free throws or 3s to guarantee wins. Effort, execution, and heart are what has carried them to runs that showed they can compete with anyone.

The defense is clearly sustainable but it does depend on maximum effort. The beautiful part of this is peeps complained about hero ball from RJ even though it was necessary and got us deep in the Tourney. Peeps complained about both playing ad not playing Tyson. Peeps whined about Hubs not developing players despite what they see in JWash, Seth, Ian, Drake, JWit, and EC! Peeps call the teams we win against "lesser competition" but when we lost to Top 10 teams called it a failure of coaching or sorry players! Peeps gnashed their teeth about playing too many sets despite them leading almost invariably to wide open looks THEN complained about us not calling them at crunch time!

This team is shaping up well and we now have multiple peeps who can step up and be counted on in crunch time. We have peeps turning into grown arsed men right in front of us! This is a fun group who still have every single goal on the table and at least one fan who believes in them enough to think they will accomplish them!

Well it absolutely is credible to say UNC has been a bad defensive team for the majority of this season. They've been good in spurts, but as a whole, they haven't been good. But it's good to see progress in defense and effort over 40 full minutes over the last 2 games. Progress isn't always linear, but it's good to see some progress made.

And we'll see whether this is sustainable or not. That's up to the players and the product they put on the floor. But again, the progress over the last couple of games is encouraging.

This team is a work in progress right now and it looks like things are progressing. If that's good enough for you, then great. If that isn't good enough for others, I think that's reasonable too.

For a person who complains about what direction the fanbase is going in (led by me apparently), you certainly don't avoid calling out people who disagree that everything is fine in UNC basketball.

 

[DSouthr]

I get what you're saying, but I have no way of knowing whether Marcus would be good in that role. Just because Hubert was a great shooter didn't mean he was a great teacher of shooting. Similarly, just because Marcus was a composed, cerebral PG/SG doesn't mean he can teach composure and using your head.

Then again, who else do we have? Might as well give it a shot.

I think Marcus would fit that role really well, they could talk PG to PG and Marcus is young enough that Cadseau would be able to relate. All the discussions in practice and off the court are fine but were Cadeau really needs someone to talk him thru is during games, where he is really struggling at times. I don't know how much it would help but it could and really, as you share, we have nothing to lose by trying.

 

[gary-7]

I think Marcus would fit that role really well, they could talk PG to PG and Marcus is young enough that Cadseau would be able to relate. All the discussions in practice and off the court are fine but were Cadeau really needs someone to talk him thru is during games, where he is really struggling at times. I don't know how much it would help but it could and really, as you share, we have nothing to lose by trying.

Marcus is the one who typically debriefs (or sometimes calms down) Eliot when he comes out.

 

[DSouthr]

Dungs entire statement is not the least bit credible. The team has shown they are capable of playing high level defense all year long! The issue is they were not playing it for entire games. This team has proven it can compete and win at fast, medium, and slow pace and has not had to count on free throws or 3s to guarantee wins. Effort, execution, and heart are what has carried them to runs that showed they can compete with anyone.

The defense is clearly sustainable but it does depend on maximum effort. The beautiful part of this is peeps complained about hero ball from RJ even though it was necessary and got us deep in the Tourney. Peeps complained about both playing ad not playing Tyson. Peeps whined about Hubs not developing players despite what they see in JWash, Seth, Ian, Drake, JWit, and EC! Peeps call the teams we win against "lesser competition" but when we lost to Top 10 teams called it a failure of coaching or sorry players! Peeps gnashed their teeth about playing too many sets despite them leading almost invariably to wide open looks THEN complained about us not calling them at crunch time!

This team is shaping up well and we now have multiple peeps who can step up and be counted on in crunch time. We have peeps turning into grown arsed men right in front of us! This is a fun group who still have every single goal on the table and at least one fan who believes in them enough to think they will accomplish them!

This "new" defense, kind of have to LOL on that line! What I see as "new" are 1) Our freshmen are growing up, they are not getting lost on switches nearly as much. 2) Jalen is playing more drop and not out 35' from the basket chasing PGs around 3) They are trusting their team mates more and a little less "auto" switching. I do notice more snap doubles, especially helping Jalen when he is being backed down, strong need. And honestly, with BOTH Jack and Drake starting and better understanding what their roles are in that defense, much of the time we do not have both RJ and Cadeau in together so our back court is longer more now than it was.

But when you have a team that is as small as we are but is still able to mount the second half come backs we have seen, against multiple top 10 teams and weak or lazy defense would not allow that to happen. I have always looked at a 50pt half as indicator that you had a great half offensively, if you hold the other team to a half in the 30s, you had a great defensive half, we have had a lot of really good defensive halfs and some not so good as well.

 

[DSouthr]

Marcus is the one who typically debriefs (or sometimes calms down) Eliot when he comes out.

But he doesn't sit next to Marcus and I am saying for the rest of this season, his seat on the bench needs to be next to Marcus. They need a constant dialog every time Cadeau takes a seat for as long as Cadeau is sitting. Share that experience like you would to a older brother.

 

[gary-7]

This "new" defense, kind of have to LOL on that line! What I see as "new" are 1) Our freshmen are growing up, they are not getting lost on switches nearly as much. 2) Jalen is playing more drop and not out 35' from the basket chasing PGs around 3) They are trusting their team mates more and a little less "auto" switching. I do notice more snap doubles, especially helping Jalen when he is being backed down, strong need.

Yes, our halfcourt D has improved a bit due to these factors.

The frosh are gradually getting better off-ball (where they have struggled mightily) but there's still a lotta room from improvement (especially in rotations). JWash playing stronger and staying inside the arc has indeed helped as well.

What concerns me is being sitting ducks by being predictable. If Wash either, a. gets in foul trouble against a bruiser, or b. has to worry about closing out on a true Stretch, welp, there goes our rim-protection. And RJ still gets picked on man-up.

Broken record or not, this team needs to be multiple. Hell, the four-guard small lineup we've trotted out could TERRORIZE some mofos by slapping on 30 and 40 in varying pickup points... or having EC/Seth/Ian/Drake and a Big could be a trapping machine.

As Dean always taught us, you force tempo with DEFENSE into transition.