The draft next year is going to be very talented and deep. But if Joel has a big year (Which I feel he will). He will probably test the waters and see where his status is. What's your opinion on this.
Joel Berry and the NBA ?
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I think he has a big year and is arguably the best pg in the country but I don't think he leaves. This draft is crazy loaded, although not as much on PGs.
Joel is having so much fun at UNC, that I would not be surprised one iota, if he has told Roy that he will be in Chapel Hill for 4 years . .
If he tests the waters he'll find hes not first rd material yet Barring some sort of drastic improvement in his shooting and defense, which is certainly possible, but imo (fact) he'll still be a year away from a big payday
I know u love him gary and i do as well. But hes not nba first rd material yet.
You might want to go back and read your own post --- already projecting where he's gonna be at season's end as "fact"? Come on, man.
That is, unless I misread your post............. did I?
I honestly think it's gonna be incredibly hard for Berry to ever get picked in the first round! Even though he is by far good enough to be a first rounder, should be, and deserves it! They like to pick point guards these days based on size, and a flashy kinda game! Don't get me wrong I hope he does cause he is a warrior and will do very good! An example is Tyler Ulis and yogi Ferrell from last year! Just my opinion though
Berry is our best and most important player, bar none..he's the toughest player we've had since #50, he sets the tone. The one thing I know is that if he's capable of playing in the NBA he will because I've heard he's working even harder in the weight room this year...Us Heel fans should sit back enjoy his years here.
Unless your Berry, and know his intentions. How is that a fact? Should have stuck with imo. Why does a kid who shot damn near 50% from 2 and 45% from 3 need to "drastically improve his shooting"? Thats a little overboard, dont you think?
I am sure he will at least test the waters but as I have said before, I am not certain he will leave after next season. First, the next draft looks like an extra strong draft, especially as compared to this past one and the one after next. You have to ask, how many PGs will go first round in an extra strong draft? Ball is likely the first PG taken, Fox is likely to go high and I could see several 2 guards and wings like Allen go as NBA PGs.
Not saying he can't play but reality is Joel is not the prototype size the NBA more looks for now days. No need to share with me the fact that there are several guys of similar size in the NBA now, I am just saying the NBA prefers the longer PGs now days and they tend to draft the longer PGs in the first round more so than the 6'0" guy.
The question becomes would he take a second round slot because that is where I think he would end up if he enters the next draft or would he hold off and have a better shot at being a first rounder in a weaker draft? Just my opinion of course, no one knows where anyone will be drafted until draft night. And if Joel leads us back to the title game or leads us to win it, well then all bets are off because the victor gets the spoils and winning it all does pump up your draftability.
Not saying he can't play but reality is Joel is not the prototype size the NBA more looks for now days. No need to share with me the fact that there are several guys of similar size in the NBA now, I am just saying the NBA prefers the longer PGs now days and they tend to draft the longer PGs in the first round more so than the 6'0" guy.
The question becomes would he take a second round slot because that is where I think he would end up if he enters the next draft or would he hold off and have a better shot at being a first rounder in a weaker draft? Just my opinion of course, no one knows where anyone will be drafted until draft night. And if Joel leads us back to the title game or leads us to win it, well then all bets are off because the victor gets the spoils and winning it all does pump up your draftability.
Oh yea, your right. I misread it. 38% from 3, 49% from 2, 44% overall. Still not terrible where a drastic improvement is needed.
no its not terrible. The question though pertains to draft position. Those are not 1st rd numbers for a pg with his height
I think JJ will be drafted late 1st rd and hicks in the second. Berry might very well play himself into 2nd rd with a great tourney run. now if he sticks around another year and continues to improve then 1st rd could happen. Jmo (fact)
I think JJ will be drafted late 1st rd and hicks in the second. Berry might very well play himself into 2nd rd with a great tourney run. now if he sticks around another year and continues to improve then 1st rd could happen. Jmo (fact)
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First, I sure hope JBIII stays in Chapel Hill for purely selfish reasons, the kid has game and he is locked in when the ball goes up at the tip off. He is a ball player. Really strong on floor in the mental aspects.
As to draft/staying...it sure seems to me that staff and JBIII will examine what is ahead, who is in his class, who may or may not go and when/where...if it favorable to him to go following this season, great, if not, stay, enjoy Chapel Hill and Tar Heel ball and go in the next group while having the benefit of "testing the waters" to receive more input as to deficiencies.
As to draft/staying...it sure seems to me that staff and JBIII will examine what is ahead, who is in his class, who may or may not go and when/where...if it favorable to him to go following this season, great, if not, stay, enjoy Chapel Hill and Tar Heel ball and go in the next group while having the benefit of "testing the waters" to receive more input as to deficiencies.
I checked a few mock draft sites and none had Berry in either the 1st or 2nd round in either the 2017 or 2018 drafts. I'd like to think he'll play himself into getting drafted, but at least as of now the "experts" aren't banking on it.
One did have Tony and Jalek as late lottery picks in the 2018 draft - for whatever thats worth. If we could put out a couple lottery picks that would greatly help out our recruiting.
One did have Tony and Jalek as late lottery picks in the 2018 draft - for whatever thats worth. If we could put out a couple lottery picks that would greatly help out our recruiting.
Joel can score. It's a lot of PG his size that's in the nba. Kemba Walker for one. Joel just needs to prove he can setup teammates this year.
Compared some of these guys college careers to Joel Berry, especially Kyle Lowry who berry reminds me of. Still think JB don't have a chance to be a first rounder?
Few PGs 6'1 and under
Kemba Walker
Trey Burke
Shane Larkin
Aaron Brooks
Isiah Thomas
Kyle Lowry
Avery Bradly
Darren Collison
Ish Smith
JJ Barea
Isiah Caanan
Pat Beverly
Patty Mills
Few PGs 6'1 and under
Kemba Walker
Trey Burke
Shane Larkin
Aaron Brooks
Isiah Thomas
Kyle Lowry
Avery Bradly
Darren Collison
Ish Smith
JJ Barea
Isiah Caanan
Pat Beverly
Patty Mills
Half those guys were first rounders, and half were second rounders or undrafted. I think JB has a chance to be a first rounder - but he needs an NBA GM to think his game is on par with those on that list. Whether we think it is or not is beyond irrelevant, since none of us make that decision.
I dont see how berry's college career compares favorably to most of those guys. (Admittedly i dont recognize some of the names) but i see some all americans, final 4 mvp's, conference mvp's, as well as at least 6 who are taller than berry. Lowry was among the nations leaders in 3pt pct i believe. I'd wager it was significantly higher than berry's 38%. But look noone is saying its impossible. The post asked for opinions and VOILA he got mine. Obviously from looking at mock drafts he has a lot of work to do to be considered. I wish him the best and NOONE would be more delighted if i were wrong than i would.
Well prob berry would be more
And his mom
Kyle Lowry averaged 11Pg and and 3.7 apg his final season at Nova.Which was his soph. year. Yeah he was a better 3point shooter % wise at 44%, but berry a good shooter as well. Kyle is 6'0 and Joel is 6'0.
As far as mock drafts go, I don't follow them. Outside the top 5 they're never accurate. Hell Tyler ullis and Diallo from Kansas was supposed to be lotto pick according to mocks. Derrick Throyton was a first rounder according to mocks last summer. Most go off of hype.
Not arguing that Joel can not play in the NBA and not arguing that Joel can not be a 1st round pick. But Kemba was fortunate to be able to cash in on a Natty season, wasn't Lowery on that same team, Ty Jones did as well. I am just saying circumstances play a part, how strong is that draft, how many other PGs are in that draft and how many college 2 guards and even wings that a NBA team will draft as a NBA point guard?
And ya know, agree or not, the NBA hesitates to invest a 1st round pick now days on upper classmen, Joel will be a Jr next season. There was not a more productive big man in college last season than Brice, had he been a freshman rather than a senior his draft spot would absolutely have been higher, very likely a lotto had he been a freshman.
Kyle Lowry played for nova. No he wasn't on the same team. I agree with Ty Jones. Circumstances play a part of course(Malachi Richardson had one great game vs VA and now he a first rounder).
I was arguing the point about his height will be the reason he will not be drafted. So I was giving examples of short guards. There are a lot of short point guards in the nba, as well as tall. Now if Berry was a shooting guard, then yeah he will be in BIG TROUBLE.
Also, you are correct as well about the Upperclassmen stigma. However, I'm predicting first rounder. I'm not predicting a lotto pick. Smith, Fox, the france guy, and Fultz will be the lotto PGs.
He would've been top 10 at least. Just like JMM if he would've left his freshman year.
You are pretty much going to see Mock Drafts this time of the yr tap all 5 star incoming freshmen recruits as 1st round selections for the next draft because when they tag a kid a 5star it means they are projecting him to go in the first round of the draft. I don't recall if Joel was a 5 star or just a strong 4star when he came to us, I want to say he was a strong 4star. Now of course based on their play a kid can play above or below his incoming star rating, in other words in or out of the first round.
But they do tend to keep a kid projected in the first round at times that didn't blow us away as freshmen, examples Skal, JMM.
Lowery was nova, thanks, who was the other guard for UConn on that natty team with Kemba, I think he was a Jr and kemba was the senior? I get he and Lowery confused, this was not the first time! LOL
Lonzo Ball will be as well and may be the first PG taken, at least in my opinion.
U prob thinking of the PG Shabazz Napier who was a Freshman or the SG Jermery Lamb who was a Fr. as well. Shabazz is 6'0 as well, he got 2 rings of course. Lucky guy lol
Well, one of those factors sure as hell isn't gonna be his defense (just wow at that concept).
But, yes, you are correct that it will depend on his shooting #s and scoring increasing (and if his performance in the tourney runs last season are any indication, they likely will).
Heelman, you know I want him around as long as possible --- hell, change his name and grant him another schollie --- and as I reported in my intel post he hasn't given any indication he has any solid plans to go, but if he has a big Jr season then obviously all bets are off and we'll hafta wait and see. And if he wins the Cousy and/or we snag a Natty then the chances increase exponentially we'll have to say goodbye.
Scolled up. Several has mention his size. It also came up on other threads as well.
What other factors you think will keep him out the first round?
I don't know how often you watched the nba(this is not a diss, so please don't take it as one) but compared some of those factors for some of the guys I listed coming out of college 6'1 and smaller if you can remember. It's one of the reasons why I think he can get drafted first round.
Winning a Cousy award or leading your team to a natty are absolutely things that increase your draft position, that is one of those circumstance things I spoke of. Could him playing an entire season like he played at the end of last season and thru the NCAAT push him up? Maybe but I would think that projections right now have already been adjusted to reflect more the way he ended the season than how he began it. Not finding him on mocks right now means he isn't getting the strong hype that you see with 1st rounders.
Now if Joel has another level of play he can get to then the hype can come his way but where is that extra level above how he ended last season and the post season? I thought he was OUTSTANDING to end the season and all the way thru the NCAAT run. His passing was sharp, his mates could have helped his assist numbers more by catching the passes that hit their hands and finishing. His shooting was very strong, what was it, around 38% or so for treys and shot better the deeper we gt in to the season, how much better will he shoot? Solid ball handle but he is not going to be Ty lawson, he defends hard but how many PGs are drafted 1st round because they are defensive specialists? My question is how much more ceiling does he have that we have yet to see that pushes him in to the NBA first round next draft?
The same ceiling as say a Darren Collison or Shane Larkin. I by no means think he will be an all star. I just think he gets drafted first round. The biggest factor to me is how much better he makes his teammates.
Kind of off topic (sort of) but I was just thinking about how dumb some of the NBA GM's decisions are..For instance, Fox for UK will prob go lottery in the draft. I am obviously biased lol but I'm taking Mr. Berry over him any day , I haven't seen a ton of Fox but what I have I wasn't all that impressed. They tend to make a lot of questionable decisions though. Like Brice going late first round this year!
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