kentucky Called Out...
- Thread starter ChapelHeeled
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This quote: "but lumping his program with the likes of perennial NIT teams like NC State, LSU and UNLV is a major slap in the face of a program" must really cause some self-esteem issues in Raleigh! LOL These poor slobs just can't stop being b-slapped!
Don't see all the hype about Kensucky this year either lose there two best players off a garbage team that couldn't get out of the first weekend of the tourney. Sure they bring in a good class but there returning players are average at best. They will rack up a lot of wins in that garbage sec but they will be who we thought they where once out of conference.
I actually think they have the best recruiting class, not Duke. Fox is a stud PG and IMO coack K is gonna regret not gettin a true floor general like Fox...
Winning a Title is hard to do. It's not just having the best team. Coach Cal is selling Kentucky as giving these kids playing time early, success on the court and MOST importantly, getting them to the NBA as soon as possible. That's what they want to hear and why he gets so many top kids. Cal isn't stupid, he knows what to say to recruit. The days are gone where kids see themselves playing 4 years for the pride of a University. They have more power now in the recruiting process. I think Kentucky's run since Cal has arrived is outstanding. We as fans get spoiled in thinking small runs are the norm....he's outperforming the "norm" for Kentucky or any other top program. The article was written to get clicks.....and is idiotic IMO.
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WoW, I want some of what you drinkin! LOL
Seriously, I think there is a lot of fools gold in that Ky class. Bam is by far the best of their haul, Fox IMO will be pretty good. I do not like Monk's shot selection, he will toss up the heat checks even when he has been missing. SKJ *IMO is at least a year and very likely 2yrs away from being a real factor and my guess he transfers before then. Gabriel I like but IMO he is more wing than 4 and Bam IMO is much more a 4 than a 5 but with Lee leaving they will both have to play out of position.
Duke's class is far better IMO and it fits their returning players much better as well. Really, if Giles makes it all the way back and can play at a high level next season we Tar Heels should already know they are going to be hard to take down. IMO, even had Bolden gone to Ky that duke class would have still been better.
Yes, I agree with that. While you can certainly build a championship-level team around elite OAD recruits, the OAD strategy is not fullproof. It works in years when the draft classes are very strong -- for UK in 09-10 (Wall, Cousins), UK in 11-12 (Davis), and UK in 14-15 (Towns, Booker, etc.) -- but does not work particularly well in years where the class is weak. Now that we're 9-10 years into the OAD era, I think the dynamics are pretty clear. In strong draft years, the teams with the best OADs have an advantage and should do well in the NCAAs. In weak draft years (like last year), the teams with experience and continuity will tend to do better b/c the relative difference in ability between the top-end OAD and the experienced star player is not very large.
While UK probably should have won one more title between 09-10 or 14-15 and shouldn't have entirely missed the NCAAs in 12-13, all in all I think it's hard to say they have underachieved.
As for the best recruiting class, I think it depends on Giles' health. Before the injury, Giles was clearly the best player in what is considered a very strong draft class (often compared to a Chris Webber-type) and many believed that Tatum was the 2nd best player in that class (and Tatum did sweep a lot of the major national awards as a Sr.). While UK has great depth of talent in the class, reality is that in an actual basketball game -- having 2 of the top 3-4 talents in college basketball on the court at the same time (on the level of a Parker, Okafor, Ingram, etc.) has a far greater impact on the course of the game than the fact that UK's 5th recruit is ranked a bit higher than Duke's 5th recruit. Though I really like UK's guards, I'm not sure any of their guys are quite in the same class -- with maybe the exception of Fox, who is particularly impressive. Also, positionally, Duke's recruits fit together. You have a combo guard (Jackson), a SF (Tatum), a PF (Giles), and a C (Bolden) -- all who can easily play alongside each other in stretches and play different roles -- Jackson the perimeter threat, Tatum the wing attacker, Giles the high post threat / roaming athlete, and Bolden the back-to-the-basket guy. UK, by contrast, is basically bringing in 3 PF/C types who are all most effective as uber-athletes around the rim (b/c of their common strengths of running, being athletic, and finishing at the rim) and don't have much offensive polish away from the rim. IMO, this is a group that can really compliment each other defensively; but may struggle to score against any team that they can't overwhelm with athleticism.
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It's my opinion. I've been watched all them play a little and I like KYs class better. My opinion. Also, KY was ranked 1 before Bolden to Duke, not sure why you think it's crazy talk to like KY better when it took a late commitment from Bolden to jump KY? I believe KY players compliment each other better than Dukes. I see a lot of sticky icky at Duke with only 1 ball to go around. Giles coming off some major knee work doesn't help also.
Obviously, any time you're talking about recruits -- you're making projections. Nothing is known with certainty until they actually play the games. But, based on everything I've read / heard, I think Tatum comes into Duke with a stronger NBA profile than Ingram, a similar profile to Parker, and a far better profile than Winslow -- and I would add that 247 had Parker at #4 behind Randle and Gordon at the end of their Sr. year. While it's impossible to know the future, it is fair to say that Tatum's rep. out of high school is certainly on par with if not better than his predecessors. I mean -- he was national Gatorade POY and a 3X Missouri Gatorade POY -- which apparently had never been done by any player in any state before. While I think the presence of Giles has led Tatum to be a bit overlooked, reality is that he would be the crown jewel of almost any normal Duke recruiting class.
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Yeah, they have consistently been very good in the regular season and postseason. I don't think they have underachieved at all. As you said, winning a National Championship is extremely difficult. That is one reason I really like honoring all the other accomplishments as well. Honor the players who have come through the program as much as possible IMO.
Tatum is a bit of a throw back player, loves the mid range game but not overly athletic. Struggles in traffic at the rim. while he is already a good polished player, the ceiling isnt too high. Im just not impressed with him. I am most likely wrong, but my eyes dont see anything special with Tatum.
First, I would disagree on Tatum, I see some Lamar Odom in his game, his ceiling when he gets his jump shot honed in is thru the roof. Giles, if he is able to go full tilt is a load to handle and while I agree Bam is at that same level I do not personally think Gabriel or SJK are anywhere close to that. Not saying I am right, just my opinion. Ky is not the 2nd best team in the country even thou those so called experts say they are. Duke IMO should be ranked at #1, I thought they had a better recruiting class than Ky even had Bolden picked Ky, those same experts that have Ky as the second best team in the nation next season felt Ky had a better class before Bolden made his choice. You get 2 of the 3 best power forwards in the class, you get the 2 players that go back & forth as being the top over all player in that class it is hard to say any other team out recruited you.
Now personally I do not think duke or Ky got the best freshman in the country, IMO UCLA did when they got Lorenzo Ball.
With the the talent UK has had since calipari has been your coach,I disagree,especially the 14-15 team.Didn't some so called experts claim they could beat lower tier NBA teams?
ive never heard one expert say that a college team could beat a pro team. In any sport.
Are you including my fanbases experts? If so, you might be right. But name any anaylist in basketball that said UK would of beat a NBA team. Any!!!! Any!!!!
I can't remember one. Hell, they all laughed at the idea. So please show me anyone other than one of our delusional fans that said that. I'll be waiting.
Okay, I respect
Your opinion. But I like our class better. We'll see which one ends up better. That's why we play the games
I respect yours as well JC but you are looking thru KY colored goggles man. I would prefer Ky to have the better class when the other option is duke but outside of losing their only real PG and not getting one in this class, that duke class is a bit scary good and deep. It is not so unlike that class you guys had with Towns and Lyles when you see how it fit with the guys you had returning for that team.
But tell ya what, I don't bet but my buddy bleeden has been known to entertain and wager. May be a few others here with a similar ilk and I think I may be able to talk bleedin in to giving 3-2 odds with his taking duke having the better freshman class than Ky and that be decided at the end of regular season and post season based on teams play and how far they go. If you or other Ky fans really believe that your class is better and that your class will push your Ky team to higher level than that duke team, we with no dogs in the fight may be willing to let you triple your money on a bet all so we can chase the pipe dream and slim chance that we could double ours?
Want me to talk to him and get the ball rollin on this? Pretty sure there is a dukie or 2 that would be willing to join up? Now of course I get to carve off my customary 10% for facillitation!
We have to agree to disagree on Tatum, i think he has bust of a prospect written all over him. Mid range with nothing else. I think Bam fits a class perfectly well, hes going to be your junk yard dog, wont need the ball to be satisfied. I agree with you on Ball.that kid is legit
The 14-15 team went 38-1, you think with that record they underachieved? They didn't win the title but they didn't match up well with Wisconsin that season. That was the one team no one wanted to see. That's what basketball is about, match-ups.
Anything less than a NC was underachieving for that 38-0 team. Their only bad matchup would have been an NBA team.
Norte dame had uk beat the game before that and duke beat that same Wisconsin team twice and once on there home court. Kensucky just played in a garbage league all year and wasn't ready when the going got tough.
Actually, I meant no one from Ky, Duke matched up well with Wisconsin. Uk would have matched up well with Duke...
Beat Kansas 72-40, beat Texas by 12, North Carolina by 14, UCLA by 39, Louisville by 6, beat Notre Dame, and West VA. Fla and Texas A&M were good that year Not a bad resume
But you will never know will ya? Hve you had that 40-0 tatoo removed yet?
North Carolina Louisville and Norte dame where the only teams ranked in top 15 and there wasn't one damn team beside Kensucky ranked in that mid major garbage conference you guys been racking up all those wins up in. Play in a real conf like the acc and that's a real resume son.
All season that hype kept growing,that this was the most talented team assembled blah,blah,blah.We heard our share of BS spewing from your brethern on this board the whole season how that team was gonna win it all..I stand by my comment...They S&*% and fell back in it.
If "didn't match up well" is the same as "severely out coached" then I agree 100%.
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