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Music is dead

heelmanwilm

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May 26, 2005
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So I was having this alcohol fueled way too intense conversation at the bar tonight and it’s really sad to realize this. Look at from 1964 to 1994, thirty years. Beatles, stones, Floyd, led, Metallica, who, Prince, elvis, Michael Jackson…the list goes on an on of epic ground breaking talent. Then the next thirty years, 94 to present, and what? Nirvana? Is anyone “breaking ground” these days? It’s wild and a little sad how there’s such a drop off.
 
So I was having this alcohol fueled way too intense conversation at the bar tonight and it’s really sad to realize this. Look at from 1964 to 1994, thirty years. Beatles, stones, Floyd, led, Metallica, who, Prince, elvis, Michael Jackson…the list goes on an on of epic ground breaking talent. Then the next thirty years, 94 to present, and what? Nirvana? Is anyone “breaking ground” these days? It’s wild and a little sad how there’s such a drop off.
funny, but lately I've been trying to break through youtube's algorithm to stop hearing the same dozen tunes repeated endlessly, and I haven't been able to find much that trips my trigger out there either. Guess I'll have to light up one of the radio services, but I don't expect miracles there either.
 
funny, but lately I've been trying to break through youtube's algorithm to stop hearing the same dozen tunes repeated endlessly, and I haven't been able to find much that trips my trigger out there either. Guess I'll have to light up one of the radio services, but I don't expect miracles there either.
You tube is the worst for that. I’ve tried Amazon music and Spotify. They’re not as bad but still you get the same 30 songs it seems
 
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The music is alive and well. NEW music is not as prevalent as it "used to be", I guess. But, people will always cherish music. Maybe it's just a period of realignment or something. The access to music is instantaneous. I wonder if that affects the appreciation of how it's created. There's definitely a shift in the marketing aspect. But, music is always out there.
 
I really enjoy watching Youtube vids of young folks reacting to old music, the looks on their faces when they hear Janis for the first time, when they hear Thunder Struck for the first time or Stairway to Heaven, ect. They hear Patsy Cline sing Crazy and wonder why they never knew about music like that.

Real music withstands the test of time, Hotel California was released in 1977 and it is loved just as much by kids today when they hear it for the first time. I really wonder how much of today's current music will be remembered like that, will hip hop still be remembered fondly 50yrs from now because they will still be singing to Elvis songs?
 
What I find most interesting is the "tribute" culture of music. All of these legacy bands of the 60s and 70s are alive and well... through tribute bands. I mean, there are literally tribute bands for just about ANY band over the course of 35 years. The original music/bands have a larger fan base than ever. But, they're dead or too ancient to pull-off a show worth watching.

REM tribute bands! Pink Floyd tribute bands... on and on. And, if they're "good", they are packing venues! I think I'd rather see an Eagles tribute band than pay $500 to see Don Henley and the leftovers, and I don't particularly like the Eagles.






 
It’s saturation. Plain and simple. Any yahoo with a laptop and drum machine can and does make music now. So the legit artists are harder to find. Not only by listeners but producers. Meaning less bands with great potential are actually found and the guy for Columbia Records settled on some hack just to get a few records sold next quarter.
 
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So I was having this alcohol fueled way too intense conversation at the bar tonight and it’s really sad to realize this. Look at from 1964 to 1994, thirty years. Beatles, stones, Floyd, led, Metallica, who, Prince, elvis, Michael Jackson…the list goes on an on of epic ground breaking talent. Then the next thirty years, 94 to present, and what? Nirvana? Is anyone “breaking ground” these days? It’s wild and a little sad how there’s such a drop off.
Old_Man_Yells_at_cloud_cover.jpg
 
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Pearl Jam, DMB, Tedeschi Trucks Band, Jason Isbell, Radiohead, John Mayer, Widespread Panic, Phish, Sturgill Simpson, Joe Bonamassa, RHCP, Snarky Puppy, Billy Strings, Warren Haynes…

I don’t even really listen to several of those bands/artists but they’re all undeniably generational talents. And there are countless more that none of us are familiar with yet. Theres a lot of great music being made and incredible bands pounding the pavement.

One of the big issues is streaming killing record sales. The traditional method of going into a studio with a producer and a team of engineers, session players, etc. is insanely expensive. Hard to justify the investment when there isn’t a very good chance of recouping that expense. So a lot more music is being produced “in the box” with virtual instruments and digital mixing/mastering.
 
Pearl Jam, DMB, Tedeschi Trucks Band, Jason Isbell, Radiohead, John Mayer, Widespread Panic, Phish, Sturgill Simpson, Joe Bonamassa, RHCP, Snarky Puppy, Billy Strings, Warren Haynes…

I don’t even really listen to several of those bands/artists but they’re all undeniably generational talents. And there are countless more that none of us are familiar with yet. Theres a lot of great music being made and incredible bands pounding the pavement.

One of the big issues is streaming killing record sales. The traditional method of going into a studio with a producer and a team of engineers, session players, etc. is insanely expensive. Hard to justify the investment when there isn’t a very good chance of recouping that expense. So a lot more music is being produced “in the box” with virtual instruments and digital mixing/mastering.
Generally I agree with your post, but I wonder if it says something that almost half your list - Pearl Jam, DMB, Widespread, RHCP, Phish, Radiohead - were all popular by 1994 which fall into heelman's bucket.
 
Generally I agree with your post, but I wonder if it says something that almost half your list - Pearl Jam, DMB, Widespread, RHCP, Phish, Radiohead - were all popular by 1994 which fall into heelman's bucket.

I mean that’s just a rough list off the top of my head. I’d argue most of them did their best work and really exploded after that time.

Part of the reason why it’s so hard to find good new music is because there’s so damn much music being released now.

Another tangential point is bands like The Rolling Stones or Zeppelin (just for example) stole like half of their catalog from lesser known artists. Harder to get away with that kind of thing today.
 
The Rolling Stones or Zeppelin (just for example) stole like half of their catalog from lesser known artists. Harder to get away with that kind of thing today.
They prefer... "borrowed" or maybe even "inspired by!"

I've always been a big fan of the Black Crowes. But, they've got songs that lift from the Stones, and others. And, then, they turn around and sue Gretchen Wilson for a chord/melody line that kinda sounded like Jealous Again. And, Robinson is always blustering about how it's all about the music.

The pillars of Rock'n'Roll music is built on I-VI-V chord progressions! Chuck Berry basically wrote 4 songs with 57 different sets of lyrics!
 
Snarky Puppy? How'd that one get by me?

Snarky Puppy might be the most talent rich band on the face of the planet. Every single one of them is a Berklee grad from the jazz program
 
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They prefer... "borrowed" or maybe even "inspired by!"

I've always been a big fan of the Black Crowes. But, they've got songs that lift from the Stones, and others. And, then, they turn around and sue Gretchen Wilson for a chord/melody line that kinda sounded like Jealous Again. And, Robinson is always blustering about how it's all about the music.

The pillars of Rock'n'Roll music is built on I-VI-V chord progressions! Chuck Berry basically wrote 4 songs with 57 different sets of lyrics!

Having to listen to Chris Robinson ruin dead songs for two hours straight was one of the worst live music experiences of my life. I like some of the old BC songs but good grief he is a tool.
 
Having to listen to Chris Robinson ruin dead songs for two hours straight was one of the worst live music experiences of my life. I like some of the old BC songs but good grief he is a tool.
Have you heard Tom bukovac?
 
Part of the reason why it’s so hard to find good new music is because there’s so damn much music being released now.
I think that is the main "problem." Between streaming and YouTube, there's a lot of noise out there getting in the way of good music. You could also make the argument that these music executives have created bland music by sticking to a formula. I listen to a lot of smaller bands/artists that I find on YouTube. Someone with 50k subs can have just as much, or more, talent than some of these bands with millions of subs.
 
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I don't follow this guy but I check him out from time to time because he knows his music. In this video he hits the mark and summarizes much of what has been mentioned in this thread by a few musically smart cookies. I keyed on the 5 minute mark but it's all valid I believe.

Most music nowadays is completely uninspiring to me and what he explains makes sense to me as to why that is.

 
I don't follow this guy but I check him out from time to time because he knows his music. In this video he hits the mark and summarizes much of what has been mentioned in this thread by a few musically smart cookies. I keyed on the 5 minute mark but it's all valid I believe.

Most music nowadays is completely uninspiring to me and what he explains makes sense to me as to why that is.

I'm subscribed to him. He definitely knows what he's talking about. He's produced for some bigger bands and testified in Congress a couple of times.
 
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I'm subscribed to him. He definitely knows what he's talking about. He's produced for some bigger bands and testified in Congress a couple of times.
Sorry for a TL;DR contribution. But, I have to. I saw this a few days ago.

He's knowledgeable, and he definitely has exposure...knows a lot of people and has experience he just always seems like a glass-half-empty guy... too gloom-and-doom (from what I've seen), regarding music present-day and going forward. Music isn't good or bad... it's just music.

People seem to have an inherent need to make it and enjoy it.. and, apparently, bitch about it and earn a living from the critique. It's just changing... it's always changing. Technology has been affecting it as long as there's been music. Imagine a musician before the late 19th century, or just imagine a regular person just hearing a song back then! They heard it BEING PLAYED, and that was the only way anyone heard it. Your only exposure was a live person performing. The advent of electricity, radio, recorded music, and on and on... that wasn't even in the imagination of Stephen Foster. Would he have been threatened by what was going to happen in the next 100 years? Is music "worse" than it was in 1850? And, now, we can access almost any recorded music in seconds. The ease of access and ease of creation will affect everything. But, I don't know if that's "bad." Musicians/artists will always express themselves. The rest of us can either like it or not like it.
 
Sorry for a TL;DR contribution. But, I have to. I saw this a few days ago.

He's knowledgeable, and he definitely has exposure...knows a lot of people and has experience he just always seems like a glass-half-empty guy... too gloom-and-doom (from what I've seen), regarding music present-day and going forward. Music isn't good or bad... it's just music.

People seem to have an inherent need to make it and enjoy it.. and, apparently, bitch about it and earn a living from the critique. It's just changing... it's always changing. Technology has been affecting it as long as there's been music. Imagine a musician before the late 19th century, or just imagine a regular person just hearing a song back then! They heard it BEING PLAYED, and that was the only way anyone heard it. Your only exposure was a live person performing. The advent of electricity, radio, recorded music, and on and on... that wasn't even in the imagination of Stephen Foster. Would he have been threatened by what was going to happen in the next 100 years? Is music "worse" than it was in 1850? And, now, we can access almost any recorded music in seconds. The ease of access and ease of creation will affect everything. But, I don't know if that's "bad." Musicians/artists will always express themselves. The rest of us can either like it or not like it.
His video wasn't really meant to be taken that way. Here's his follow up video.

 
His video wasn't really meant to be taken that way. Here's his follow up video.

I saw that one, too. I dunno... bee-AH-toe just gives off a negative sorta vibe to me, most of the time. I agree with him sometimes. He needs to get people to watch his content. That helps him earn a living. That's cool. He's exceptional at doing that. "People don't care about music as much as they used to." And, then he refers to the algorithms to tell him/us what is happening around us with that "data." Social media is ruling the world. I can buy that. It's BRAND NEW! And, our culture is consumed with it. But, his livelihood depends on it thriving, too. He bashes it and then profits from it.

I do, occasionally, enjoy his interviews with the celebs he gets on his channel. The Brendan O'Brien interview was cool. I think it was cuz I just like BOB. Fun fact: BOB played the guitar solo in the Black Crowes "Hard To Handle"on the SYMM record. Rich Robinson is still insecure about it!
 
"People don't care about music as much as they used to."
He wasn't trying to say they don't care about it, he was saying it's not valued as much because it's easier to consume. Which is true for anything. The more you have of the same thing, the less each individual thing is valued. Think of it as a supply and demand thing. As a side point, he was also saying it has lead to people not practicing their instruments as much, which is also true. It's funny that you went on a rant about someone being negative by taking the most negative view of the video that you could.
 
He wasn't trying to say they don't care about it, he was saying it's not valued as much because it's easier to consume. Which is true for anything. The more you have of the same thing, the less each individual thing is valued. Think of it as a supply and demand thing. As a side point, he was also saying it has lead to people not practicing their instruments as much, which is also true. It's funny that you went on a rant about someone being negative by taking the most negative view of the video that you could.
Exactly. He's saying that the musicianship is not there to the same level anymore because even a stiff like me could "make" music "just as good" as my best buddy who's played since we met in elementary school. And, as an end consumer, you don't appreciate the end listening the same way that you did when it was a choice to buy a particular 45 or LP because you could only get one and not, literally, everything. It's kinda like ordering from Amazon or Walmart plus with free shipping, etc. We can have stuff the same, next or in two days. When we were kids, we poured over catalogs, saved our money and decided what we'd get. Then, we finally had our mom write a check and send it off. Two weeks later, after the order had been received, the check had cleared, and they shipped it, our magical box of whatever arrived. We have it pretty good now. Pointing that out isn't being a pessimist as much as it is recognizing the state of things.
 
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Exactly. He's saying that the musicianship is not there to the same level anymore because even a stiff like me could "make" music "just as good" as my best buddy who's played since we met in elementary school. And, as an end consumer, you don't appreciate the end listening the same way that you did when it was a choice to buy a particular 45 or LP because you could only get one and not, literally, everything. It's kinda like ordering from Amazon or Walmart plus with free shipping, etc. We can have stuff the same, next or in two days. When we were kids, we poured over catalogs, saved our money and decided what we'd get. Then, we finally had our mom write a check and send it off. Two weeks later, after the order had been received, the check had cleared, and they shipped it, our magical box of whatever arrived. We have it pretty good now. Pointing that out isn't being a pessimist as much as it is recognizing the state of things.
Pointing that out isn't being a pessimist as much as it is recognizing the state of things.
exactly, no more and no less. And he did an excellent job of describing the state of things. There's no denying that technology creeps into our lives at an increasing rate, and usually that's good...even though it often brings the other side of the coin with it. I think the other side of the coin needs to be kept in check, and it isn't being kept in check with music to my satisfaction.

To me the state of things is that technology and convenience has sadly taken the place of artistry and artistic talent to a great extent. The music is going down the path of suckitudinous mediocrity as a result.

There are other factors he didn't really explore, but what he did hit on was on the money. Negative or positive is in the ear of the beholder (listener?).
 
He wasn't trying to say they don't care about it
Then someone needs to go and tell him because that is exactly what he said... to my ears. That is why I put it in quotes. And, he says that it is a problem. To me, a problem implies that something is wrong.

It's cued-up almost to the quote:




I already agreed- twice- that access to and ease of access- can diminish the appreciation of something.
 
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Then someone needs to go and tell him because that is exactly what he said... to my ears. That is why I put it in quotes.

It's cued-up almost to the quote:




I already agreed- twice- that access to and ease of access- can diminish the appreciation of something.
Context exists for a reason. You can't take a couple of small quotes from a topic he's speaking on for 20 minutes and say that's exactly what he's talking about. You're picking a weird hill to die on.
 
Context exists for a reason. You can't take a couple of small quotes from a topic he's speaking on for 20 minutes and say that's exactly what he's talking about. You're picking a weird hill to die on.
He's speaking for 7 minutes, total, in this clip, and he even says that it's a "problem" that "people don't care about music as much as they used to." A problem implies that something is wrong/needs to be addressed. Then he uses Google searches to try and prove that the alleged problem, in fact, exists. I'm watching you die on the same hill. His assertion is that something is wrong, bad, getting worse, and so forth. That's fine if he wants to push that opinion. It's fine if everyone wants to agree with whatever they think he's supposed to be saying. His content, from my experience, is always that "there's something wrong, something is going wrong, things are going from bad to worse... let's talk about it."

The title of the original video that started this was named "The Real Reason Music Is Getting Worse." If people are slowly becoming more and more detached from human interaction and the things that bring us mutual joy and fellowship... I am not surprised by that at all.
 
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He's speaking for 7 minutes, total, in this clip, and he even says that it's a "problem" that "people don't care about music as much as they used to." A problem implies that something is wrong/needs to be addressed. Then he uses Google searches to try and prove that the alleged problem, in fact, exists. I'm watching you die on the same hill. His assertion is that something is wrong, bad, getting worse, and so forth. That's fine if he wants to push that opinion. It's fine if everyone wants to agree with whatever they think he's supposed to be saying. His content, from my experience, is always that "there's something wrong, something is going wrong, things are going from bad to worse... let's talk about it."

The title of the original video that started this was named "The Real Reason Music Is Getting Worse." If people are slowly becoming more and more detached from human interaction and the things that bring us mutual joy and fellowship... I am not surprised by that at all.
You're picking a weird hill to die on.
 
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