NBA...

[RP12]

Not to take us off of Labron talk but I'm wondering if I'm the only one with this opinion:

While I'm very happy for JMM for being a small piece of one of the best teams in NBA history, I don't get the focus on his rings. It's a neat fact that guys like he and Chilcutt when combined with NBA stars who went to UNC make a huge number (33 I think now) I don't think it's a marketable claim. Maybe that's not the point. I totally understand UNC sites congratulating him but I think this tidbit does more to hurt out image in terms of NBA presence than anything else, for whatever that may be worth.

 

[tarheel0910]

Not to take us off of Labron talk but I'm wondering if I'm the only one with this opinion:

While I'm very happy for JMM for being a small piece of one of the best teams in NBA history, I don't get the focus on his rings. It's a neat fact that guys like he and Chilcutt when combined with NBA stars who went to UNC make a huge number (33 I think now) I don't think it's a marketable claim. Maybe that's not the point. I totally understand UNC sites congratulating him but I think this tidbit does more to hurt out image in terms of NBA presence than anything else, for whatever that may be worth.

I'm not sure if it hurts our image, but your example is why I have never placed a lot of value on team championships when talking about individual players. I don't dismiss it, but it's one of the last criteria I use.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Was it not fair when bron bron joined wade in Miami? Cavs have the highest payroll in the league. This teams been handpicked by his majesty. I'm sure after they get done being brow beaten and we have to hear 5000 times how bron doesn't have enough help and is just too tired, they'll go out and acquire some reinforcements. I would hardly say it's unfair.

LeBron's was a bit different circumstance. He created a team to get past an already made super team. Garnett was acquired by a trade, but he also signed like the biggest contract in NBA history the day the trade was completed. The Celtics may have been the only team he was going to do that for.

Durant joined the team that he personally choked up 3-1 against a year ago to join them. This is literally "if you can't beat em, join em." He has his ring so it doesn't matter now, but LeBron's was different. LeBron had literally nothing in Cleveland and never got anything in Cleveland. He also didn't go to Boston who beat him.

I get the argument that LeBron started this players leaving for other teams stuff and that might be partially fair, but players have always had this freedom once they're free agents. Just because LeBron and KD took advantage of it, we should hate it? This happens every year in the NFL, but we don't care about it. Why do we care so much in the NBA?

Any team that starts Zaza pachula can't really be considered goat. In all seriousness, I'm not sure this gs team could beat some of the spurs title teams or Kobe and shaqs lakers, and that's just in the 2000s.

And Luc Longley is good enough to be on the greatest team of all time?

People can disagree with the Warriors being the best team of all time, but I think it's wrong to flat out dismiss it. They're in the convo.

The Warriors are the only team in NBA history that have (in my opinion) 4 basketball hall of famers in their primes. Steph, KD are 1st ballot locks. I think Klay is a virtual lock, he'll have the 2nd most 3's in NBA history and probably win 3 or 4 rings?

The only question is Draymond, but he'll probably be in the top 5-10 all time in triple-doubles, he'll probably win multiple DPOY awards, multiple time all star, multiple gold medal winner. So I think he'll be in without too much controversy.

Four hall of famers in their primes. Personally, I think they're the best team of all time but to completely eliminate them is just the wrong thing to do. They're at the very least among a short list and definitely in the conversation. They're that great.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Just because LeBron and KD took advantage of it, we should hate it? This happens every year in the NFL, but we don't care about it. Why do we care so much in the NBA?

Outside of maybe the QB - one player can't impact a team's season long outcome in the NFL the way that they can in the NBA. And established quality QBs don't move all that often. That's why people may be against it - because the balance of power shifts so much more easily in the NBA.

I have less of a problem with KD going that route because he hasn't been a giant d-bag his entire career like LeBron. I guess an argument could be made that this is good for the NBA. While it makes the regular season and playoffs up until the finals completely meaningless and unwatchable - it does get the casual fan to tune in to root for LeBron to lose in the finals, which he has obliged on more times than not.

 

[Heeelz46]

Kinda

Outside of maybe the QB - one player can't impact a team's season long outcome in the NFL the way that they can in the NBA. And established quality QBs don't move all that often. That's why people may be against it - because the balance of power shifts so much more easily in the NBA.

I have less of a problem with KD going that route because he hasn't been a giant d-bag his entire career like LeBron. I guess an argument could be made that this is good for the NBA. While it makes the regular season and playoffs up until the finals completely meaningless and unwatchable - it does get the casual fan to tune in to root for LeBron to lose in the finals, which he has obliged on more times than not.

Agreed. The league is already so watered down that as you said the playoffs themselves are just a forgone conclusion. This was also part of the argument I was making in the mj vs lebron debate- Jordan had to really earn his way to the finals. Now its like a 3 round Bye to the finals for lebron and golden state.

At this point might as well just stack the two teams up to the gills with all stars and at least the finals will be entertaining.

 

[ChiShankCity]

I think there's 1 reason why these guys bolt and form super teams.

It's "RINGZZZZZZZZ" culture.

There is a generation of basketball fans that when asked "what's the first thought that comes to mind when describing Charles Barkley (or Stockton/Malone)" their response is they have no rings. Look at this board... To a lot of people here, the primary difference maker between Michael Jordan and LeBron James, or Michael Jordan and Magic, or Michael Jordan vs Kareem is MJ has more rings than X, Y, Z.

So LeBron saw the landscape of the NBA. He saw that his teammates in Cleveland were Daniel Gibson and Larry Hughes and he couldn't beat Pierce/Allen/Garnett... Durant comes off a 3-1 choke so I think his scenario is a little different. I think he just wanted a championship lock.

But LeBron and Durant probably didn't want to be known as best players of their generations not to win a championship. In LeBron's case, it's the only way he'd probably get the basketball respect he deserved. If that ruined the NBA, blame RINGZ culture. If people were level headed and just said, Barkley and Malone are arguably all time 25 greatest players in NBA history, but just happened to play when Michael Jordan played... Or those 2 are top 25 all time greats, but a couple bounces didn't go their way... Compare that to, these guys are losers because they have no rings... Maybe guys are more willing to stick it out and be ok with their careers even if they don't win a ring.

It's really interesting that everyone here seems to prefer the 80's and 90's loyalty to today's NBA, but a lot more people here are more in favor of Durant's move to Golden State over LeBron to Miami. Likability goes a really long way in sports.

Let me ask people a question.... How would you view LeBron if he never left hisoriginal team, and never won a ring in hiscareers? Would you all just say great player that unfortunately didn't win a ring? Hell no, narrative would be completely different.

If you would rip him mercilessly and call his basketball career a failure, then I'm not blaming him. I blame the public more than LeBron if that's the case.

 

[tarheel0910]

Let me ask people a question.... How would you view LeBron if he never left hisoriginal team, and never won a ring in hiscareers? Would you all just say great player that unfortunately didn't win a ring? Hell no, narrative would be completely different.

As I stated in another post, rings have very little value to me when evaluating an individual player. I would still say he is a great player. Doesn't matter if he has no rings or 20 rings.

 

[Hark_The_Sound_2010]

Let me ask people a question.... How would you view LeBron if he never left hisoriginal team, and never won a ring in hiscareers? Would you all just say great player that unfortunately didn't win a ring? Hell no, narrative would be completely different.

If you would rip him mercilessly and call his basketball career a failure, then I'm not blaming him. I blame the public more than LeBron if that's the case.

I think the narrative would be similar. He'd be an incredibly talented prick that never won a ring, instead of what he is now - an incredibly talented prick that's won a few rings. I think people would recognize that he's still a generational great, but as you said:

Likability goes a really long way in sports.

And LeBron has made himself anything but likeable in his time in the NBA.

 

[ChiShankCity]

Outside of maybe the QB - one player can't impact a team's season long outcome in the NFL the way that they can in the NBA. And established quality QBs don't move all that often. That's why people may be against it - because the balance of power shifts so much more easily in the NBA.

I have less of a problem with KD going that route because he hasn't been a giant d-bag his entire career like LeBron. I guess an argument could be made that this is good for the NBA. While it makes the regular season and playoffs up until the finals completely meaningless and unwatchable - it does get the casual fan to tune in to root for LeBron to lose in the finals, which he has obliged on more times than not.

I disagree with LeBron being a giant D-Bag in his career... But that's because I didn't care about his decision. I also don't have an issue with players complaining about fouls. Everyone has done that.

 

[tarheelinfl]

The NBA is virtually unwatchable.

 

[ethanga62890]

I disagree with LeBron being a giant D-Bag in his career... But that's because I didn't care about his decision. I also don't have an issue with players complaining about fouls. Everyone has done that.

Not everyone is 6'9 240 and flops like a soccer player when a point guard touches him.

 

[Sk1310]

Not everyone is 6'9 240 and flops like a soccer player when a point guard touches him.

 

[dadika13]

Kinda


Agreed. The league is already so watered down that as you said the playoffs themselves are just a forgone conclusion. This was also part of the argument I was making in the mj vs lebron debate- Jordan had to really earn his way to the finals. Now its like a 3 round Bye to the finals for lebron and golden state.

At this point might as well just stack the two teams up to the gills with all stars and at least the finals will be entertaining.

Too many teams. League should go down to like 22-23 teams...but obviously it'll never happen.