NC STATE - What's Your Take?

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We're coming off an ugly loss with plenty of time for Roy to beat some sense and urgency into our guys - both old and new. Or at the very least a lot of running til you puke.

Roy reputedly hates State. Can anyone tell us why? But assuming it's true, that just adds incentive. Roy will be pounding our team even harder.

Roy beats State. Not always, but most of the time.

It's on our court.

They have a shorter turn-around time and are returning from an away game.

So . . . Nothing to worry about, right?

Well . . . Not so fast.

State has new coach. Does Roy hate him, too? And will Roy have Keatts' number? How good is he?

State has had some bad losses, but they have also beaten several very good teams - Arizona and Duke come to mind.

We made State our bitches last year. Does that mean we will be over-confident? Does that mean they will be fired up (even more than usual)? Or will they be demoralized?

State should have one of the best front courts in the ACC. Hasn't quite worked out that way, but they're pretty good. Could be a real handful for us. With our luck, Abu - who has struggled this year - will get back on track. Meaning doing a lot of damage before fouling out. Except that this UNC team doesn't get people into foul trouble as much as usual. Yurtseven looks good, Lenard Freeman is decent. If Abu shows up, they could own the boards and pound us inside.

No Letdowns!

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

My guess is that our 3-point shooting returns with a vengeance against State and we blow them away. But if it doesn't, and if we play matador D again, we could be in big trouble.

 

[heels05champs]

Roy amps it up during state week. It goes back to his college buddies being wolfpeckers and harassing him about UNC. He’s hated them ever since and the coach over there doesn’t change that. Expect to see our guys busting their butts on both ends of the court because he will tolerate nothing less during this game and I expect a rowdy crowd to assist.

 

[tarheel0910]

Roy reputedly hates State. Can anyone tell us why?

http://www.espn.com/blog/collegebasketballnation/post/_/id/46166/roy-williams-does-not-like-nc-state

 

[toophly1124]

They suck.

 

[TarHeelMark]

Roy is 27-3 vs moo. 32-3 if you include Kansas. That’s called ownage.

 

[Spacegrass]

Even Better. Roy needs to be like this to the team

 

[mikeirbyusa]

Roy beats State. Not always, but most of the time.

Roy OWNS moooou 32-3 overall-27-3 @UNC.

 

[Spacegrass]

Roy OWNS moooou 32-3 overall-27-3 @UNC.

It's the #1 reason they have had a revolving door of coaches since Roy showed up.

 

[toophly1124]

It's the #1 reason they have had a revolving door of coaches since Roy showed up.

I miss Sidney n his red blazer.

 

[FranktheHeel]

I'm super excited for this game, it couldn't have come at a better time for our guys. This is exactly the game that we need to get on the right track and build off of, we will have a lot going for us as the environment Saturday is going to be electric. Everyone hates State and Roy loves taking it to them. Also, the 1967-69 teams are going to be honored so there will be a little added nostalgia for Roy and the fans, he talked about it today in his presser that he has a special affinity for those teams since they were the first teams that he fell in love with when coming to Carolina, with those guys in the building there's no way we can lose, those guys were winners and always will be.
I expect our guys to be ready for this one, I want to see a lockdown effort on the defense end, a strong value of the ball, to push the tempo, get in transition and for Kenny to get back on track.
The Team I HATE is nc state!!!

 

[Archer2]

Roy amps it up during state week. It goes back to his college buddies being wolfpeckers and harassing him about UNC. He’s hated them ever since and the coach over there doesn’t change that. Expect to see our guys busting their butts on both ends of the court because he will tolerate nothing less during this game and I expect a rowdy crowd to assist.

Exactly. It doesn't matter who the coach is. I had a bumper sticker on my '66 Stang that said: "Duke is puke, Wake is fake, but the team I hate is NC State".

Even Better. needs to be like this to the team

Never cared much for State in the first place. But after what their fans have done the last 5-6 years... Well, let's just say this Conan quote describes my feelings about them to a tee.

 

[alabamaheel]

I miss Sidney n his red blazer.

And LOL, I just turned on the tv and boom ol Lowe was on the court in the Wizards game. Hes and assistant coach.

 

[Spacegrass]

Exactly. It doesn't matter who the coach is. I had a bumper sticker on my '66 Stang that said: "Duke is puke, Wake is fake, but the team I hate is NC State".



Never cared much for State in the first place. But after what their fans have done the last 5-6 years... Well, let's just say this Conan quote describes my feelings about them to a tee.

I can deal with losing to the Dookies. I can't deal with losing to State outside of the occasional anomaly loss. They aren't worthy.

 

[FranktheHeel]

I just re-watched the game from last year, and it was just as good as watching it last year, pure DOMINANCE on both ends, we need that same effort and energy on defense Saturday with everyone contributing. If you have some time, it is a great watch, love seeing that squad and the connection they had, such a special group. I would love to see us get out more in transition like we did against them last year and get into our breaks, they really had no answer for it. 51 Point Blowout, nothing like a good old fashion beatdown against State.
Last words for Saturday: Let's jump on 'em early and jump around for the rest of the game!!

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Roy reputedly hates State. Can anyone tell us why?

This statement tells me you're more of a Maryland fan than a Carolina fan.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

My take on NC State:
- their entire athletic department is a waste
- they play in East Cary, not Raleigh
- they care more about beating Carolina than they do winning championships, literally
- they should've kept Herb (lulz, just kidding)
- their most prestigious sport, historically speaking, is basketball.... and yet they play in an off-campus arena that they share with a hockey team (lol)
- I repeat my last
- their national brand as an athletic program is smaller than Kansas State's
- "Rah rah Carolina-lina. Rah rah Carolina-lina. Rah rah Carolina-lina. GO TO HELL STATE!"

 

[gauchoheel]

"Rah rah Carolina-lina. Rah rah Carolina-lina. Rah rah Carolina-lina. GO TO HELL STATE!"

Do you ever hear anyone say this? I only hear 'go to hell dook' at the games.

Would be interesting to try to compare K-State vs NC State brand equity.

 

[gobblercalls]

This thread makes me feel old. I remember when this was THE rivalry. Sheesh, I remember when state was relevant in basketball, and I'm talking about way before the lucky run the cheating Valvano team went on.

 

[Archer2]

I just re-watched the game from last year, and it was just as good as watching it last year, pure DOMINANCE on both ends, we need that same effort and energy on defense Saturday with everyone contributing. If you have some time, it is a great watch, love seeing that squad and the connection they had, such a special group. I would love to see us get out more in transition like we did against them last year and get into our breaks, they really had no answer for it. 51 Point Blowout, nothing like a good old fashion beatdown against State.
Last words for Saturday: Let's jump on 'em early and jump around for the rest of the game!!

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Watched the highlites and it started my Friday off with a laugh. Thanks, buddy!

Do you ever hear anyone say this? I only hear 'go to hell dook' at the games.

You must be a youngin'. State was our main rival for many years.

 

[BillyL]

We as a team seem to start slow on these 12 noon start times . .

Personally, I love that our game is on at this time of day, not that sure our BBall squad digs it as much.

 

[tarheel0910]

Do you ever hear anyone say this? I only hear 'go to hell dook' at the games.

They say it at the moo games. For all the other games it's go to hell duke since they are our actual rivals.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Do you ever hear anyone say this? I only hear 'go to hell dook' at the games.

I say it. And generally when I do, I get encouraging shouts from nearby fans.

They say it at the moo games. For all the other games it's go to hell duke since they are our actual rivals.

Bite your tongue, sir. As a North Carolinian from down East, you know dang well Moo is a rival.

 

[tarheel0910]

Bite your tongue, sir. As a North Carolinian from down East, you know dang well Moo is a rival.

We've had this discussion before. Yes they are a rival in a couple of sports, but our overall athletic rival is duke and it's not even close.

ETA: And I also think some UNC fans lack of willingness to admit that duke basketball existed before k got there causes them to prop up the moo rivalry in basketball more than they should.

 

[Spacegrass]

We've had this discussion before. Yes they are a rival in a couple of sports, but our overall athletic rival is duke and it's not even close.

ETA: And I also think some UNC fans lack of willingness to admit that duke basketball existed before k got there causes them to prop up the moo rivalry in basketball more than they should.

From a state of NC perspective Raleigh east imo the State UNC rivalry is more vitriolic. West of Raleigh it's the rivalry with the Dookies.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

We've had this discussion before. Yes they are a rival in a couple of sports, but our overall athletic rival is duke and it's not even close.

Agreed. One of the main reasons this is so is because ncstatelol doesn't even field several of the sports we kick butt in like men's lax and field hockey.

I said Moo is a rival, not THE rival. In football, they have turned into THE rival, though. It's kinda sorta analogous to the Michigan - Ohio State - Michigan State triangle where we are Michigan. We have two rivals, whereas as the other two only see us as their one rival.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

From a state of NC perspective Raleigh east imo the State UNC rivalry is more vitriolic. West of Raleigh it's the rivalry with the Dookies.

Here's your typical Duke fan that lives in NC:

Born and raised in Philly, went to Temple University, moved to Durham to work as a newspaper copy editor. Pulls for all Philly pro teams... Plus Duke basketball.

I kid you not, I saw someone on Twitter this week who tweeted at the David Glenn Show and the above is what his bio said.

The Carolina - Duke rivalry means a ton, nationally, but it would be a lot more fierce locally if folks from North Carolina actually went to Duke. They don't, by and large. If your family is from North Carolina, you're bound to have multiple Wolfpack and Tar Heels in your family. You're unlikely to have many Blue Devils in your family.

 

[Littlejon]

We've had this discussion before. Yes they are a rival in a couple of sports, but our overall athletic rival is duke and it's not even close.

ETA: And I also think some UNC fans lack of willingness to admit that duke basketball existed before k got there causes them to prop up the moo rivalry in basketball more than they should.

I remember Vic Bubas all too well and just how good some of those dook teams were. Still, they were not our key rival back then and "it wasn't even close". And if you need any evidence of how far I go back, I got turned onto UNC basketball before Phil came to town and I even remember the 8 point comeback against dook with 17 seconds on the clock in 1974. I didn't watch it (I was only 5 years old and had the attention span of a gnat), but I remember my dad going nuts over it and it was the talk of the town at the time.

The "rivalry" with dook as we know it today came about when their basketball team became relevant again through K at about the same time dESPN was looking to really make a splash with their programming. Before that, moo was THE rival to beat. The fact they have dropped off since their ONLY NC (with a brief hint of regaining some relevancy in the 90's) has not lessened their rivalry status in a lot of folks' eyes, mine included.

Yes, dook is a heated rivalry, for basketball primarily, but also once in a while in football. Yes, they are the ones who most people NOW recognize as our primary rival, but to dismiss the sheep fondlers as a "rival" shows a very distinct lack of appreciation for the past every bit as much as that you allude to with your post about people dismissing dook's teams before K.

I wish there was more footage of the old Norm Sloan/Dean Smith games from back in the day for some of you guys to go look at. Talk about heated. They made some of the cheap-ass BS that Rick Barnes tried to pull look like amateur night, not to mention some of the crap K pulled early on trying to make himself relevant. Norm and Dean hated each other. The teams hated each other. The fans hated each other. Carmichael and Reynolds were ROCKING when the rival came to town. Fans were right at the court and were relentless the entire game. I guess unless you lived it and saw it first hand, you really can't appreciate just how special it was. And it was mostly because people in North Carolina went to one or the other schools. No one in NC went to dook. Hell, no one in NC goes to dook now for that matter! Yes, nationally, dook is seen as our rival, again because dESPN pushed the game as such an intense rivalry game. Primarily to get people in the NE interested in watching a basketball game that used to be almost exclusively a regional game that no one else in the country cared about.

Anyway, for me at least, moo losing relevancy didn't really lessen my hatred for them. Once their fans started going to places few fan bases have ever gone, it only intensified. I knew they had lost their way when I asked not one, but TWO moo fans the same question and got the same answer. I asked if they had a choice between winning every game, including the National Championship, except for losing to UNC one time in a season or losing every game, except beating UNC one time in a season, which would they choose. Before I could get the words out, they chose beating UNC once and losing every other game. That should tell you all you need to know about those knuckle dragging morons. And THAT is why beating moo in every sport, every year, will always be one of my top priorities.

 

[tarheel0910]

I remember Vic Bubas all too well and just how good some of those dook teams were. Still, they were not our key rival back then and "it wasn't even close". And if you need any evidence of how far I go back, I got turned onto UNC basketball before Phil came to town and I even remember the 8 point comeback against dook with 17 seconds on the clock in 1974. I didn't watch it (I was only 5 years old and had the attention span of a gnat), but I remember my dad going nuts over it and it was the talk of the town at the time.

The "rivalry" with dook as we know it today came about when their basketball team became relevant again through K at about the same time dESPN was looking to really make a splash with their programming. Before that, moo was THE rival to beat. The fact they have dropped off since their ONLY NC (with a brief hint of regaining some relevancy in the 90's) has not lessened their rivalry status in a lot of folks' eyes, mine included.

Yes, dook is a heated rivalry, for basketball primarily, but also once in a while in football. Yes, they are the ones who most people NOW recognize as our primary rival, but to dismiss the sheep fondlers as a "rival" shows a very distinct lack of appreciation for the past every bit as much as that you allude to with your post about people dismissing dook's teams before K.

I wish there was more footage of the old Norm Sloan/Dean Smith games from back in the day for some of you guys to go look at. Talk about heated. They made some of the cheap-ass BS that Rick Barnes tried to pull look like amateur night, not to mention some of the crap K pulled early on trying to make himself relevant. Norm and Dean hated each other. The teams hated each other. The fans hated each other. Carmichael and Reynolds were ROCKING when the rival came to town. Fans were right at the court and were relentless the entire game. I guess unless you lived it and saw it first hand, you really can't appreciate just how special it was. And it was mostly because people in North Carolina went to one or the other schools. No one in NC went to dook. Hell, no one in NC goes to dook now for that matter! Yes, nationally, dook is seen as our rival, again because dESPN pushed the game as such an intense rivalry game. Primarily to get people in the NE interested in watching a basketball game that used to be almost exclusively a regional game that no one else in the country cared about.

Anyway, for me at least, moo losing relevancy didn't really lessen my hatred for them. Once their fans started going to places few fan bases have ever gone, it only intensified. I knew they had lost their way when I asked not one, but TWO moo fans the same question and got the same answer. I asked if they had a choice between winning every game, including the National Championship, except for losing to UNC one time in a season or losing every game, except beating UNC one time in a season, which would they choose. Before I could get the words out, they chose beating UNC once and losing every other game. That should tell you all you need to know about those knuckle dragging morons. And THAT is why beating moo in every sport, every year, will always be one of my top priorities.

I'm going to admit ahead of time that I didn't read your whole post because it appears that you didn't understand what I was saying. When I said duke was "the rivalry" and it's not even close I was referring to the overall athletic rivalry and not just basketball. Anyone who keeps up with UNC sports outside of basketball and football would agree with that.

 

[DSouthr]

Lets do some math:

Roy hates the wuffies + We are coming off an embarrassing loss + we are playing at home =

 

[Littlejon]

I'm going to admit ahead of time that I didn't read your whole post because it appears that you didn't understand what I was saying. When I said duke was "the rivalry" and it's not even close I was referring to the overall athletic rivalry and not just basketball. Anyone who keeps up with UNC sports outside of basketball and football would agree with that.

I completely understood what you were saying. But, again, the rivalry with dook is due to basketball and was created there first as a means for dESPN to get people in the NE (where a large percentage of dook grads hail from) interested in watching what was, for the most part, a regional rival game. To broaden their viewer base and expand into the NY and other NE markets, dESPN had to find a tie in for people in the area. Dook was a logical choice because a lot of dook grads lived in the area, their coach was getting them wins again and Dean was already established as one of the greatest to walk the sidelines. Most UNC fans were OK with the rivalry, but still considered moo to be the primary rival. Where it all really turned was in one UNC/dook basketball game where Eric Montross got a cut under his eye and was shown on TV shooting free throws with blood running down his cheek. Up until that point, nothing really happened between the teams in any previous games that was noteworthy outside of this region, mainly because no one watched (or could even see it) outside of this region. Keep in mind, dESPN wasn't what it is today. They needed this to propel their network to the national level of a broadcast network and this was exactly what the doctor ordered.

Still, when you want to see how intense a rivalry is outside of basketball, go watch a UNC/Moo baseball game. One of the best baseball games I have ever watched (and baseball is my favorite sport by a landslide, so I have watched thousands of games in my time) was the ACC championship game several years ago between UNC & moo. Played in Greensboro and turned out to be one of the longest games in history. They went back and forth the entime game and every extra inning. Again, players don't like each other much and fans don't either. Same for every sport I have ever witnessed between UNC and moo.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

I completely understood what you were saying. But, again, the rivalry with dook is due to basketball and was created there first as a means for dESPN to get people in the NE (where a large percentage of dook grads hail from) interested in watching what was, for the most part, a regional rival game. To broaden their viewer base and expand into the NY and other NE markets, dESPN had to find a tie in for people in the area. Dook was a logical choice because a lot of dook grads lived in the area, their coach was getting them wins again and Dean was already established as one of the greatest to walk the sidelines. Most UNC fans were OK with the rivalry, but still considered moo to be the primary rival. Where it all really turned was in one UNC/dook basketball game where Eric Montross got a cut under his eye and was shown on TV shooting free throws with blood running down his cheek. Up until that point, nothing really happened between the teams in any previous games that was noteworthy outside of this region, mainly because no one watched (or could even see it) outside of this region. Keep in mind, dESPN wasn't what it is today. They needed this to propel their network to the national level of a broadcast network and this was exactly what the doctor ordered.

Still, when you want to see how intense a rivalry is outside of basketball, go watch a UNC/Moo baseball game. One of the best baseball games I have ever watched (and baseball is my favorite sport by a landslide, so I have watched thousands of games in my time) was the ACC championship game several years ago between UNC & moo. Played in Greensboro and turned out to be one of the longest games in history. They went back and forth the entime game and every extra inning. Again, players don't like each other much and fans don't either. Same for every sport I have ever witnessed between UNC and moo.

Stop saying "dESPN" because I like you as a poaster and don't want you to look like some of the wackos on this board.

What @tarheel0910 is saying is correct. Duke is the overall athletic rival and it has limited to do with basketball or ESPN. I have personally heard a UNC coach who coaches a perennial Top 10 UNC sports program tell me "off the record... f*** Duke."

Moo can't be our rivalry in a lot of the sports we excel at because they don't even have those sports. Field hockey, men's lacrosse, and women's lacrosse are three sports we are always in the Top 10 (or winning national championships in), and guess who is also always in the Top 10 in all three of those sports? Duke. Guess who doesn't even field varsity versions of those three sports? Moo.

It's Moo's own fault that they aren't our full athletic rival. They are our fiercest football rival, though. I don't think many would debate that,

 

[tarheel0910]

But, again, the rivalry with dook is due to basketball and was created there first

This is inaccurate. The rivalry with dook went beyond basketball. It wasn't created because of basketball.

Where it all really turned was in one UNC/dook basketball game where Eric Montross got a cut under his eye and was shown on TV shooting free throws with blood running down his cheek. Up until that point, nothing really happened between the teams in any previous games that was noteworthy outside of this region,

Larry Brown and Art Heyman say hi.

Still, when you want to see how intense a rivalry is outside of basketball, go watch a UNC/Moo baseball game.

I have and yes it can get intense at baseball. But that's it. Three sports out of 27. As @TarHeelNation11 correctly pointed out, moo doesn't even field teams in many sports. Go talk to our soccer coaches, LAX coaches, field hockey, etc and ask them how they feel about duke.

 

[Littlejon]

Larry Brown and Art Heyman say hi.

Go talk to our soccer coaches, LAX coaches, field hockey, etc and ask them how they feel about duke.

And who, outside of this area, knew anything at all about Larry and Art at the time? No one. Which is my point. The "rivalry" didn't gain NATIONAL momentum and become what it is today until long after those days. Dook enjoyed many years of irrelevancy while UNC stayed at the top of the national scene.

As for other sports, of course they will look at dook as rivals in those sports. Just like they look at moo as rivals in ALL the sports where we play them. Neither lessens the intensity because of the other. They are both rivals to the teams playing. That has not and will never change.

Doesn't matter. Beat them both in everything we play them in!

 

[Littlejon]

Stop saying "dESPN" because I like you as a poaster and don't want you to look like some of the wackos on this board.

What @tarheel0910 is saying is correct. Duke is the overall athletic rival and it has limited to do with basketball or ESPN. I have personally heard a UNC coach who coaches a perennial Top 10 UNC sports program tell me "off the record... f*** Duke."

Moo can't be our rivalry in a lot of the sports we excel at because they don't even have those sports. Field hockey, men's lacrosse, and women's lacrosse are three sports we are always in the Top 10 (or winning national championships in), and guess who is also always in the Top 10 in all three of those sports? Duke. Guess who doesn't even field varsity versions of those three sports? Moo.

It's Moo's own fault that they aren't our full athletic rival. They are our fiercest football rival, though. I don't think many would debate that,

Sorry, but anyone who watched dESPN knows a lot of their commentators have an open affection for dook. Dickie V being the primary cheerleader, since he can't call a single game without mentioning dook at least a dozen times. Regardless, I didn't realize putting a "d" in front of their name instantly branded me a whacko. But, then again, I have been called worse. If you don't want to call them that, fine by me. I certainly don't think less of you as a poster, poaster or anything else.

Look, no one would disagree dook is seen as a bigger rival NOW because of the number of sports we play them in and because of the games in basketball. Because more sports are seen on TV in all markets, of course dook and UNC will be viewed as bigger rivals by the country as a whole. I never was arguing that point. All I was saying is they weren't always our biggest rival and to many of us, moo is still just as big a rival, regardless of what sport we are playing them in. 30-40 years ago there weren't as many sports as there are today. Basketball, football and baseball were pretty much it. The fact there are more sports now doesn't mean rivalries go away, they just move into those new arenas.

I was also pointing out that the dook rivalry started with basketball and was created primarily as a means for dESPN (or ESPN to some folks) to broaden their market. Why this has to be an either/or with some of you is beyond me. I never said dook wasn't a bigger rival NOW, nor did I say the rivalry was exclusive to basketball. It started there and grew because of a fledgling sports network trying to create new revenue streams. Neither of which lessens the intensity of the rivalry with moo IN THE SPORTS WHERE WE PLAY THEM.

And I think any and all UNC fans should agree that, regardless of the sport, beating the goat molesters or the floor slappers each and every time we play them should be a priority.

 

[tarheel0910]

And who, outside of this area, knew anything at all about Larry and Art at the time? No one. Which is my point. The "rivalry" didn't gain NATIONAL momentum and become what it is today until long after those days. Dook enjoyed many years of irrelevancy while UNC stayed at the top of the national scene.

The national momentum argument is not a valid argument. No college rivalries were national back then. College sports were not a national thing, it was a regional thing because the access was limited to the region for the most part. Nobody on the west coast was talking about UNC vs moo in the 60's.

I was also pointing out that the dook rivalry started with basketball and was created primarily as a means for dESPN (or ESPN to some folks) to broaden their market... It started there and grew because of a fledgling sports network trying to create new revenue streams.

This is completely inaccurate.

 

[TarHeelNation11]

Sorry, but anyone who watched dESPN knows a lot of their commentators have an open affection for dook

Stop.

 

[Littlejon]

The national momentum argument is not a valid argument. No college rivalries were national back then. College sports were not a national thing, it was a regional thing because the access was limited to the region for the most part. Nobody on the west coast was talking about UNC vs moo in the 60's.

Why not? It is relevant to what I was originally stating. Had it not been for an expanding market and national exposure to the entire country, the UNC/dook rivalry wouldn't have taken off like it has. College sports have grown and so have rivalries. Very few college rivalries were viewed as "intense" until there was national exposure. They were all basically regional in nature.

You can't use the "more sports" argument as a basis for the UNC dook rivalry being bigger now while dismissing the national exposure. Lacrosse wasn't around back then either, so if we can't use national exposure as a relevant argument, neither can we use sports that largely weren't available then either.

 

[Littlejon]

Stop.

OK, I won't call them dESPN for your sake. Just because I like you. Mostly. I think.

But not in a man-crush kind of way or anything like that!

 

[TarHeelNation11]

College sports have grown and so have rivalries. Very few college rivalries were viewed as "intense" until there was national exposure. They were all basically regional in nature.

What? A rivalry can be intense without being "national." The Iron Bowl has been intense forever, even though it generally hasn't been national. Lots of rivalries are intense but aren't "national."