no first-half susp for Dalton, correct?
- Thread starter blazers
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I'ma throw y'all a bone here and agree with this point. It's an important one, and an accurate one.
I still remember Southern Miss fans visiting this site when we hired Fedora back in 2011. They told us all the good things, but also told us to expect at least one head-scratching loss every season and undisciplined teams that racked up a lot of penalties. Both have definitely held true throughout his tenure out UNC.
In that context, Dalton's penalty was definitely frustrating. The same can be said for a number of other agonizing fouls over the years that have had a significant impact in losses, like Bodine's false start against dook that knocked us off the goal line or the roughing the snapper call on a ND punt in the 4th quarter. Hell, I'd never even heard of roughing the snapper before!
cmon man, he was late getting there...he hit him after the ball was gone...hit him high, led with helmet.
Say what you mean. It sure sounds like you're implying he was intentionally trying to injure the QB. Is that what you're saying?
no, not at all...he was late and led with his helmet...just a dumb football play...like i said, most teams have these guys, but if their production was good, it wouldn't matter much.
is it coincidence to you that he continues to struggle with leverage or technique?...maybe he just can't play, or is too unfocused to play on a consistently good level.
Your original question to me was whether he was trying to get a sack. While I tend to agree with everything you're saying above, none of it suggests he was trying to anything other than get a sack. Maybe I'm not understanding your point.
i don't think he was trying to get a sack...he launched himself, head first, and didn't even wrap his arms.
he was trying to hit the qb, yes.
he was trying to hit the qb, yes.
LOL, he didn't launch himself. He never even left his feet. He did drop his head, which was the reason for the targeting call.
So he was trying to hit the QB but wasn't trying to get a sack. That's ... an interesting interpretation.
wtf kind of interpretation do you want; yours, mine, his, larry's?...and i didn't say he left his feet...he's staring at bowers, dips, hits with helmet.
he didn't wrap his arms, period...if he wraps around bowers, a penalty probably isn't called, and it's definitely not an ejection.
you watch football...this happens in every game...andre smith is finally wrapping up to tackle instead of trying lay dudes out.
That's how I saw it as well. He knew the ball was gone, but wanted to finish the hit. Not necessarily to injure the QB, but to send a message of "I'm here". The timing of the hit was fairly late (he took a step and a half after ball release), but may have not been called if he didn't lead with the head - to the QBs head.
I think it had a little bit to do with the ensuing loss, but as you've pointed out - blaming the loss on him is a bit of an overstretch - although I do think it's fair to pin the TD they got on that drive on him (as well as the DB that blew the coverage) because the drive would have been over had he not done it.
The bulk of the blame for the loss goes to the coaching staff though. Piss poor effort out of them.
Thank you. I attempted to find the video of it earlier but couldn't. That's a textbook example of targeting.
I would love to hear his interpretation, actually.
You said he launched himself, which under the NCAA targeting rule is defined as "a player leaving his feet...." That's not what Dalton was cited for. He was cited for the "leading with the helmet" and "lowering the head" standards.
No one is arguing that it was targeting. It unquestionably was. The problem I've had is people assigning malicious intent on Dalton's part and calling for him to be kicked off the team or suspended.
I wasn't arguing the targeting either. That's just the first time I've seen the hit on a big computer screen rather than a phone, and I was just commenting it's worse than I thought when I saw it in person or on a cell phone.
And just to clarify, I'm not calling for him to be kicked off the team nor am I calling for him to suspended. I said the coaches should *sit* him. Whether that's for a series, a snap, whatever. Send a message.
@Raising Heel imo, watching as much as i do, when a player can clearly pull up, when a player could always wrap up, when a player leads with his helmet, his intent is to target with the helmet.
the reason you're debating this with me, i think, seems only to be the fact that i don't believe his intention was to sack bowers...again, if he wraps up, it's not targeting and he's not ejected.
now that you've taken it this far, why don't we examine why he did it and if that's coached or is it something he can't avoid...similarly, why he continues to struggle to be good at any position on the line...maybe his football iq is just low.
i don't think i've said kicked off or suspended...i just questioned the response from the players and coaches.
the reason you're debating this with me, i think, seems only to be the fact that i don't believe his intention was to sack bowers...again, if he wraps up, it's not targeting and he's not ejected.
now that you've taken it this far, why don't we examine why he did it and if that's coached or is it something he can't avoid...similarly, why he continues to struggle to be good at any position on the line...maybe his football iq is just low.
i don't think i've said kicked off or suspended...i just questioned the response from the players and coaches.
They absolutely should. I'm tired of watching Fedora's teams be one of the most-penalized in the country. As others have suggested, it's a symptom of an underlying discipline issue that also contributes to poor execution.
Not if he still lowers his head and leads with the helmet.
ETA: Also, you've already pointed out players' poor form, i.e. not wrapping up, when trying to tackle opponents. That contradicts your assertion that he wasn't trying to sack Bowers; maybe he just used bad form.
I really don't feel like arguing about this. All you do is criticize our players and coaches, so it's not going to be a productive conversation.
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Truth. The way the refs "interpret" the rule, they'll toss you if the first thing that makes contact with the other player is your head, especially if it touches the opponent's helmet. Doesn't matter if you're going for the best wrap-up tackle ever.
The thing that bothers me the most about the hit is that Dalton had an unobstructed view of the QB. It isn't like he was shedding a block. He could clearly see the QB release the ball, and then he takes another step, and then one more step as he's dishing out the blow. Watch the NFL. Even the most vicious hitters ease up if the QB has clearly released it and they can see he's released it. You've gotta be disciplined.
dude, quit...a general practice, i hope anyway, is not to tackle high...i'm assuming he's being taught to look at the player's belt buckle and also not lead with his helmet...maybe he's not though, or just doesn't care.
would you agree bowers was defenseless on the play?
