Thanks for that tip and insight. Anyway, as I replied to GSD I pointed out my take, since he politely asked.
Non-Conference schedule!
- Thread starter FlaTarHeel
- Start date
Dick V was very critical of John Thompson when he would play HBCU's like Bethune Cookman and Winston-Salem St every year.
Part of Big John's reasoning was trying to give those schools/programs a financial blessing they wouldn't receive elsewhere.
Part of Big John's reasoning was trying to give those schools/programs a financial blessing they wouldn't receive elsewhere.
I wonder how much more money there is from playing in a bigger venue? I imagine the real money comes from TV and such. But I really don't know.
Just for fun I looked up McKale Center. It seats 14,644. How many more does the Phoenix site seat - and what percentage of the ticket sales does Duke get?
I don't know the names of these bigger centers but I notice the Verizon Center in DC where the Wizards play only seats 18,277.
Looking up MSG, it seats 19,812.
The Dean Dome seats 21,750.
The Carrier Dome, on the other hand.... But how full does it get for a basketball game?
Usually the home team gets to keep the money from ticket sales. I'm guessing if it's a neutral site game they would split the revenue. The extra revenue from the ticket sales would be a drop in the bucket for a school like duke or UNC. If you are a smaller school without a big TV contract I would think it would be very helpful.
It gets quite the crowd. Certainly around 20K. We made it to the UNC game 1.5 years ago and hope to make it this season.
CC
Here are the basketball attendance figures: http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_basketball_RB/Reports/attend/2016.pdf
Top 10 teams in average home attendance last year:
1. Kentucky 23,361
2. Syracuse 21,592
3. Louisville 20,859
4. North Carolina 18,326
5. Maryland 17,863
6. Wisconsin 17,287
7. Indiana 17,106
8. North Carolina St. 16,758
9. Kansas 16,436
10. Creighton 15,941
I think there's a significant revenue boost to Duke. Home teams get to keep all of their ticket revenue, but for neutral site games the teams usually split the revenue. While MSG is technically St. John's home arena, I bet Duke has enough leverage to get them to split the gate. After all, Duke would be the big draw in that game.
As for capacity, MSG holds 19,812, Carnesecca holds 5,602, and Cameron holds 9,314. The average price at Cameron is about $200 (source: http://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/03/10/the-25-most-expensive-college-basketball-tickets/), so a home game at Cameron with 9,000 paid tickets is worth $1.86 million in ticket revenue
Let's say you are going to schedule a home and home with St. Johns. You can give do one game at Carnesecca and one at Cameron. That gives you $1.86 million in revenue at home and nothing for the Carnesecca game. Even if you could get a 50% split of the Carnesecca revenue, selling 5,500 tickets at $60 per gives Duke $165,000.
However, if you can get it moved to MSG and sell say 15,000 tickets at a higher ticket price (say $100 because of the location), Duke's split of the revenue is $750,000. So Duke gets $585,000 more than they would at Carnesecca, and St. John's still gets $420,000 more than they would for a $60 per ticket sell-out at Carnesecca where they keep 100% of the gate. It's a win-win for both parties.
This is why you're seeing a move in college football and basketball towards neutral site venues. It's tough to make the economics work to play road games for the top teams. That's why I really liked our move with Davidson to play a home game at the Dean Dome in 2016 and a neutral site game in Charlotte in 2017, rather than a return game at Davidson. It results in more revenue for both teams, and one could argue it's a nice opportunity for UNC fans in Charlotte to see the Heels play as well.
Top 10 teams in average home attendance last year:
1. Kentucky 23,361
2. Syracuse 21,592
3. Louisville 20,859
4. North Carolina 18,326
5. Maryland 17,863
6. Wisconsin 17,287
7. Indiana 17,106
8. North Carolina St. 16,758
9. Kansas 16,436
10. Creighton 15,941
I think there's a significant revenue boost to Duke. Home teams get to keep all of their ticket revenue, but for neutral site games the teams usually split the revenue. While MSG is technically St. John's home arena, I bet Duke has enough leverage to get them to split the gate. After all, Duke would be the big draw in that game.
As for capacity, MSG holds 19,812, Carnesecca holds 5,602, and Cameron holds 9,314. The average price at Cameron is about $200 (source: http://247wallst.com/special-report/2016/03/10/the-25-most-expensive-college-basketball-tickets/), so a home game at Cameron with 9,000 paid tickets is worth $1.86 million in ticket revenue
Let's say you are going to schedule a home and home with St. Johns. You can give do one game at Carnesecca and one at Cameron. That gives you $1.86 million in revenue at home and nothing for the Carnesecca game. Even if you could get a 50% split of the Carnesecca revenue, selling 5,500 tickets at $60 per gives Duke $165,000.
However, if you can get it moved to MSG and sell say 15,000 tickets at a higher ticket price (say $100 because of the location), Duke's split of the revenue is $750,000. So Duke gets $585,000 more than they would at Carnesecca, and St. John's still gets $420,000 more than they would for a $60 per ticket sell-out at Carnesecca where they keep 100% of the gate. It's a win-win for both parties.
This is why you're seeing a move in college football and basketball towards neutral site venues. It's tough to make the economics work to play road games for the top teams. That's why I really liked our move with Davidson to play a home game at the Dean Dome in 2016 and a neutral site game in Charlotte in 2017, rather than a return game at Davidson. It results in more revenue for both teams, and one could argue it's a nice opportunity for UNC fans in Charlotte to see the Heels play as well.
Just want to point out one thing with this. The $200 price is the price on the second hand market. The school wouldn't get any of that, just the original face value. It doesn't change your point, but it makes a difference in the additional revenue numbers.
Ok move the SJ at dook game to Charlotte or Greensboro, both seat over 23k.
#RevenueBoost
It's not that simple. Scarcity leads to higher prices. Duke charges much higher prices than UNC because there are so many fewer seats in Cameron than the Dean Dome. I just don't think there'd be that much demand for a game in Carnesecca.
Cameron is a perfect fit for Duke from a revenue standpoint. They don't have nearly as many fans as us, but the fans they do have tend to have a lot of disposable income. So they've basically turned the whole stadium into a giant luxury box, where every ticket is expensive because there's so few available. It's smart business, even if I don't like it from an accessibility perspective. Duke is always near the top of college basketball in ticket revenue, despite the small stadium.
puke doesn't care about revenue from bball. They operate with an approximately 2B endowment. This is why they can match the Lakers for ratty every time he gets an itch! The revenue certainly matters to St. Johns a little (they aren't hurting for $), but a win over puke would help propel them to post season tourneys and this is where the real bump comes! The competitive advantage and increased potential for a win against a top 10 foe is way more important to St J than this supposed revenue boost. The game is at a neutral site solely because this is the only way ratty will play it! History has proven this beyond the shadow of a doubt to all but trolls and pukies!
This seems relevant to the conversation.
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ittee-emphasize-quality-road-wins-next-season
http://www.espn.com/mens-college-ba...ittee-emphasize-quality-road-wins-next-season
