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Not much to say...

I thought texas commited more fouls than were called. On a neutral court Texas doesnt shoot that well from 3. Theres no way Hicks should start over meeks.
Texas played out of their mind in front of a frenzied crowd. I just hope the guys have a positive reaction to the game, and dont lose confidence.
 
What has Roy done in the last 5 years that gives you any confidence that we'll be an elite program again?
Maintained a competitive program while fighting an uphill recruiting battle because of the "scandal". It's cyclical my friends. Teams ebb and flow as far as excellence. Carolina was two injuries away from probably playing Kentucky for the championship in 2012.
 
We wouldn't be talking about any of this if they had just called the freaking assault on Paige from behind on that last rebound. We didn't box out well, but by God, Paige boxed out that time and got flattened. We should have been at the line on the other end for two.
 
We play Texas on a neutral court and I guarantee we win. We play Maryland on a neutral court and I think it is a toss up. So, cool your jets. The NC is not won in December. All teams will progress and learn. I have faith in Roy that our product in March/April will be as good as anyones. Winning the NC has always had some luck involved. Let's hope that luck is ours. It could be a number of teams but I am not worried about the Heels.
 
Does anyone think it is time to move the 3pt line back? Statistically there is almost no point to shoot 2 pointers if you can make 50% from 3.
yes the line is too close , need to go to NBA distance but the NCAA rather play puzzy basketball.
 
Move the line back and we will only have 1 legit threat. Our shooting threes has kept us in a few games this season. I think Paige could hit uncontested shots from halfcourt if he wanted to. Jackson may hit a decent percentage, and possibly berry. But it would be the misses that would kill us. Texas was shooting some crazy looking shots last night. They were simply falling for them. Not playing zone during their small runs hurt us. The zone looked effective enough to me to stall them a bit from outside. I was hoping Roy would mix it in a bit more. But he only focuses on pressing man to man and possession count. Also, with Brice exiting early in the game, our defensive and offensive rebounds took a big hit. Hicks played like a monster, but cannot rebound like brice
 
I agree Grayhead. I'd like to see the lime moved back a little more but some nights a team just can't miss from the perimeter, Texas had one of those nights. They made several tough shots! We simply have to stay within closing distance when helping down. Or even better yet, don't help down at all unless a team is wearing us out inside.

Our biggest issue last night was a lack of commitment on the boards which led to 20+ second chance points. Brice getting into immediate foul trouble hurt us badly on the boards. For a Senior, he displays a distinct lack of poise/discretion/caution when defending. Can't for the life of me figure out why he hasn't grasped the fact that he can't help us when he's on the bench. Come on Brice, think man!

We got badly outhustled/outfought last night. Our bigs are going to have to be tougher if we're going to make a deep run this year. And unlike some who think we're incapable after this loss, I have every expectation that we will indeed make a deep run.
 
Then if a shooter gets hot and hita 75% for a game, will the Heels 3 point defend still suck in your eyes?
I guarandamntee you there will be fewer of them getting hot from the NBA distance. Year after Year it's the same excuse for us "well X or Y just got hot from the 3"
 
We have some piss poor fans who grossly overreact every time we lose. If the shoe fits...
we also have fans who can't face reality that maybe last year is who we are. Everybody said the same things last year wait til the conference season , wait til March etc etc. We are a veteran team , maybe I'm wrong but I think what you see is what you get. I'm from Realville and that doesn't make me a "piss poor fan" just a realistic one.
 
we also have fans who can't face reality that maybe last year is who we are. Everybody said the same things last year wait til the conference season , wait til March etc etc. We are a veteran team , maybe I'm wrong but I think what you see is what you get. I'm from Realville and that doesn't make me a "piss poor fan" just a realistic one.
And I didn't mention anyone by name did I? I said IF the shoe fits... Feeling guilty?

As for your post, we all know this isn't a uber talented team. We lack the super star talent that can dominate night in and night out just by showing up. But, I certainly don't agree that this team is the same as last year's team. We'll see who is right by the end of the season.

ETA: not even bothering to read the game thread because I'm sure it's full of sheer idiocy and knee jerk reactions.
 
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I think the fact is we won't defend the 3 well percentage wise all season. We are who we are.

We have to limit the attempts. If good teams attempt 24 3's against us, we're going to be in these kinds of games all season because we'll allow a pretty high percentage.

The rebounding sucked today, but realistically, I think that's a fluke. We're a good rebounding team that got owned today. I don't think the 3pt D efficiency is a fluke. So we need to limit the attempts to offset our poor percentage defense.
We have never defended the 3 well in any season. That has been the one thing that has been consistent even in the seasons where we won 'ships. That's just one part that Roy's teams are just OK giving up. Every defense has to give up something and Roy has decided he would rather focus on helping and closing down the painted area, as opposed to playing out on the perimeter. I think that philosophy was great in the pre-3 point shot era, but the risks are a lot higher now with many teams able to knock down 3's. Most teams don't have guys that can constently knock down 3's, so if most teams are shooting in the 20/25% range were OK. The problem I saw was we weren't able to stop dribble penetration of either Felix or Taylor. That to me was a bigger issue than the 3's. Those guys got to the cup at will.
 
we also have fans who can't face reality that maybe last year is who we are. Everybody said the same things last year wait til the conference season , wait til March etc etc. We are a veteran team , maybe I'm wrong but I think what you see is what you get. I'm from Realville and that doesn't make me a "piss poor fan" just a realistic one.

WoW, just could not disagree more, sad really, to see folks that call themselves UNC fans give up so early in a season. I wonder how you can truly enjoy a season if you give up on it this quick? Maybe I am wrong but it seems with those "Realville" natives live in a place I prefer not to visit...
 
we also have fans who can't face reality that maybe last year is who we are. Everybody said the same things last year wait til the conference season , wait til March etc etc. We are a veteran team , maybe I'm wrong but I think what you see is what you get. I'm from Realville and that doesn't make me a "piss poor fan" just a realistic one.
I wouldn't jump to that conclusion just yet.
 
Me either D, me either. Every time we lose a game, some of our fans lose their minds. It happens every freakin' year. I don't know how some of them can force themselves to even watch our shitty team underachieve every year.
 
Me either D, me either. Every time we lose a game, some of our fans lose their minds. It happens every freakin' year. I don't know how some of them can force themselves to even watch our shitty team underachieve every year.

Objectively speaking, we have underachieved since winning the title in 2009. Zero final fours and one elite 8 in six seasons is underachieving when you are UNC.
 
Texas shot 63% from 3...

Why does everyone keep saying Texas shot 63% from 3? The box score says Texas was 12-24 which is 50%.

That said, the freshman Eric Davis was shooting out of his mind. I can't believe he made that many, and the one he shot from well beyond the 3 point line was insane and proved make a huge difference.
 
Sucks to lose, but nice to get some true OOC road games in early to help the team improve. We could take the K approach and only play home and neutral site games but I think that would hurt us come march
 
Sucks to lose, but nice to get some true OOC road games in early to help the team improve. We could take the K approach and only play home and neutral site games but I think that would hurt us come march
Hasn't hurt him!!..unc has too many "pretty boys " on this team...quit dancing and taking selfies on social media please!!
 
we also have fans who can't face reality that maybe last year is who we are. Everybody said the same things last year wait til the conference season , wait til March etc etc

Yet so many here are going to crucify you for stating something that's staring each and every UNC fan in the face for the majority of the last 7 or so seasons.

Look, we all know it's early in the season. But we have already lost the same amount of games we did last season. And the 2 seasons before that. All 3 were double digit loss season. And the only rebuttal we get is "wait until X"? What's even worse is that the ones with blinders will continue to tell you that you think "the sky is falling" or, as I saw in this thread, we need to "back away from the edge". Any push back is met with a response such as "You need to jump ship". Then, it's simply rinse and repeat. Every. Freaking. Year.

We're averaging about 11 losses in the last 3 years. Yet people want to continue to believe everything is fine. It's a shame when losing games like these even sting as hard anymore.
 
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While it's true that our experienced returning line-up may have been overvalued, I still think we are good enough to be a Final Four team. Once you get there .... Who knows?
We may end up with 6-7 losses before tourney time, but there doesn't appear to be a dominant team his season. I still like our chances come March.
 
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Yet so many here are going to crucify you for stating something that's staring each and every UNC fan in the face for the majority of the last 7 or so seasons.

Look, we all know it's early in the season. But we have already lost the same amount of games we did last season. And the 2 seasons before that. All 3 were double digit loss season. And the only rebuttal we get is "wait until X"? What's even worse is that the ones with blinders will continue to tell you that you think "the sky is falling" or, as I saw in this thread, we need to "back away from the edge". Any push back is met with a response such as "You need to jump ship". Then, it's simply rinse and repeat. Every. Freaking. Year.

We're averaging about 11 losses in the last 3 years. Yet people want to continue to believe everything is fine. It's a shame when losing games like these even sting as hard anymore.

To clarify, we lost 3 games at this point last year, including an ugly loss AT HOME to a mediocre Iowa team (55-60! that's right.... 55 points on our home court, remember?) This is not to excuse the losses, and I think they sting for all of us true fans.... I know the loss ruined the rest of the day / evening for me......

but if you take some time to step back and consider it.... we did have some adverse situations go against us in both games we lost this year (no Marcus at UNI - and basically no Theo, and a lethargic couple other guys yesterday). UNI and Texas "got up" for these games, and I'd say we didn't nearly match their intensity. We need to find a way to do that on the road, to be a great team. I really think guys like Marcus, JB II, and Theo are the guys to light the fire under guys and hold them accountable. I believe Marcus has the heart, character, and leadership qualities to not let guys slack off, and risk squandering everything HE and the rest of the team has worked on so hard (him - MP - especialy, with staying 4 years and fighting back from injuries).

Another silver lining.....if this team has any heart, character, intelligence, yesterday (and UNI) WILL help them in March and in the ACC road schedule. The only way to learn from road challenges (loud crowds, super motivated opponent, favorable home officiating) is to experience it, as much as possible. Sure the Heels easily could've stayed home from Iowa and Texas, and loaded up on home scheduling schools like Norheastern Cupcake Tech Univervisity like Dook and Kentucky do for their out of conference, but how does that really help them, except inflating individual stats and egos? I'll take the real adversity, hostile, legitimate talent games every time, in terms of helping the team.

Last thing - I know this can't actually happen, but I'd LOVE for the doom and gloomers who guarantee a double-digit loss season to bet me or others on it. Even if you assume we lose a game in the ACC and in the NCAA tourney, that puts us at 4. That means we'd have to lose 6-8 more games in the OOC and in the ACC. I don't see how that happens. The only other possible OOC game that could be close is with UCLA. In the ACC, I don't think we'll lose at home. And I don't see use losing 5 road ACC games. I think our total losses this year will be 6-8, counting the ACC tourney and the NCAA tourney.
 
And I didn't mention anyone by name did I? I said IF the shoe fits... Feeling guilty?

As for your post, we all know this isn't a uber talented team. We lack the super star talent that can dominate night in and night out just by showing up. But, I certainly don't agree that this team is the same as last year's team. We'll see who is right by the end of the season.

ETA: not even bothering to read the game thread because I'm sure it's full of sheer idiocy and knee jerk reactions.
didn't mention by name...ahhhh it was in reply to my post. I hope x 100 you are the one who is right.
 
My opinion on if the team is going to be great , good or bad has nothing to do with my allegiance and my fandom. I have been a Tar Heel fan(football , basketball and every sport) since 1966 and have never wavered. Blindly just thinking everything is great , making excuses etc. doesn't make you a better fan. I sincerely hope this team makes a deep run into the NCAAT and I want an ACCT championship almost as bad , but my fear is this is just the same team as last year because personnel wise it is. I TRULY HOPE I'M WRONG.
 
Probably going to get crucified for this, but oh well!!...The way Theo has been treated since Paige returned is downright disrespectful!!...transfer would be on my mind....adding woods & Robinson and JJ potentially staying another year is going to cause problems!!...things may get worse before they get better for Pinson!!
 
We have never defended the 3 well in any season. That has been the one thing that has been consistent even in the seasons where we won 'ships. That's just one part that Roy's teams are just OK giving up. Every defense has to give up something and Roy has decided he would rather focus on helping and closing down the painted area, as opposed to playing out on the perimeter. I think that philosophy was great in the pre-3 point shot era, but the risks are a lot higher now with many teams able to knock down 3's. Most teams don't have guys that can constently knock down 3's, so if most teams are shooting in the 20/25% range were OK. The problem I saw was we weren't able to stop dribble penetration of either Felix or Taylor. That to me was a bigger issue than the 3's. Those guys got to the cup at will.
Last year we were 14th in the country in defensive 3pt percentage. So a similar roster defended the 3 pretty well last year, but we still got killed because he allowed a lot of attempts.

But our roster is flawed to defend the 3. Berry is not a really good defender and last year our defensive stats were awful when he was in the lineup. He has to play more and will be either guarding a PG that can drive by him or a SG, and Berry has a habit of getting lost off the ball o D.

If Roy's still "OK" giving up 3 point shots over layups, forget about final fours not only this year but any year in the future under Roy. The game has changed. It's not changing, it's not in the process of changing, it's not an evolutionary process of changing. It has changed (past tense).

This is basic math... I'm sure most understand, but in case some are skeptical... I'll try to simplify it.
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A 3pt shot is worth 50% more than a 2pt shot (if both shots are made).

The elite finishers in the NBA shoot at the most 70% from 10 feet and in. That's the equivalent of about a 46% 3 point shooter. So for an elite NBA 3 point shooter, whenever they shoot a 3, it's the equivalent of an elite finishing forward shooting a shot from 10 feet and in.

An asterisk to that is that doesn't account for and-1's which are far more likely to happen on shots near the basket vs shots from 3.

Another example... LeBron James shot a career high 78% at the rim in 2013. That's the equivalent to a 52% 3 point shooter.
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So... The math says, the elite 3 point shooters in the NBA (45%+) are pretty much shooting layups according to the math.

What's the easiest way to counteract that? Don't allow 3 point shots.

Right now, we're allowing 38.4% on 3's. That's the equivalent to allowing 57.3% on 2's. You know what we allow from 2 right now? 43%.

If you think we have the defense that will allow, for the rest of the season, around 30% from 3, then Roy's strategy is fine. If you think we have a D that will probably allow 35%'ish for the rest of the season, then the strategy needs to change. If it doesn't we just won win big in March. We have a flawed and fairly mediocre talent roster.... The coaching can't hold it back if they hope to do anything significant.
 
Probably going to get crucified for this, but oh well!!...The way Theo has been treated since Paige returned is downright disrespectful!!...transfer would be on my mind....adding woods & Robinson and JJ potentially staying another year is going to cause problems!!...things may get worse before they get better for Pinson!!
Pinson saw about a 10 minute per game drop off when Marcus came back. He only played 10 minutes against Texas but was recovering from the "flu bug". The problem is where are you going to put him and whose minutes are you going to cut to get him time? Wont be Berry or Paige. Are you cutting Justin Jackson's minutes? Do you cut Britt's even more and bank on having Berry or Paige playing PG exclusively and almost never on the court together?
 
Pinson saw about a 10 minute per game drop off when Marcus came back. He only played 10 minutes against Texas but was recovering from the "flu bug". The problem is where are you going to put him and whose minutes are you going to cut to get him time? Wont be Berry or Paige. Are you cutting Justin Jackson's minutes? Do you cut Britt's even more and bank on having Berry or Paige playing PG exclusively and almost never on the court together?
That's why I mentioned transfer..he deserves to be on the court somewhere!!..next year will be the same thing if jj returns!!
 
That's why I mentioned transfer..he deserves to be on the court somewhere!!..next year will be the same thing if jj returns!!
That's definitely a thought that may have crossed his mind, for sure. Next year, like you said, won't be much better if Jackson indeed returns. You'll have Berry, Britt, Woods, and Robinson eating the majority of the time at PG/SG. You'll have Hicks/Maye/Bradley eating the majority of the time at the PF. It will pretty much be 40 minutes to split between Jackson and Pinson at SF which won't bode well for Pinson because Jackson NEEDS 25+ minutes a game. Depth is a good problem to have and I'm sure Roy will find ways to get Theo on the court.
 
That's definitely a thought that may have crossed his mind, for sure. Next year, like you said, won't be much better if Jackson indeed returns. You'll have Berry, Britt, Woods, and Robinson eating the majority of the time at PG/SG. You'll have Hicks/Maye/Bradley eating the majority of the time at the PF. It will pretty much be 40 minutes to split between Jackson and Pinson at SF which won't bode well for Pinson because Jackson NEEDS 25+ minutes a game. Depth is a good problem to have and I'm sure Roy will find ways to get Theo on the court.
Theo really needs to improve his offense and that will get him more time. .
 
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