Not so quick stuff (Charleston Southern)

[imajericho]

RJ Davis finally getting the spotlight as being our best Heel. Man was that offense humming under his leadership at the point. 10 assists. No turnovers. 5 steals. Holy moly!

Unc finally puts someone away handedly. Oh, and Davis has 8 games in a row with 20 plus points including 7 in a row vs top echelon programs with 23+.

All-American.

And Washington can really knock down them open 3s. He is shooting at an amazing clip from out there this season.

 

[heels05champs]

I really liked what I saw with Washington last night. Can he continue to trend in that direction, especially against decent competition?

Can the Heels overcome an off-night from RJ against an ACC opponent on the road? As good as RJ has been, he’s going to have a couple tough shooting nights and who will step up to overcome that?

On the road against Clemson will tell me a lot about this team.

 

[tcb22]

I really liked what I saw with Washington last night. Can he continue to trend in that direction, especially against decent competition?

Can the Heels overcome an off-night from RJ against an ACC opponent on the road? As good as RJ has been, he’s going to have a couple tough shooting nights and who will step up to overcome that?

On the road against Clemson will tell me a lot about this team.

And not just Clemson on the road--at Pitt next week where we have really struggled, and then at State. Tough road ahead.

 

[imajericho]

I really liked what I saw with Washington last night. Can he continue to trend in that direction, especially against decent competition?

Can the Heels overcome an off-night from RJ against an ACC opponent on the road? As good as RJ has been, he’s going to have a couple tough shooting nights and who will step up to overcome that?

On the road against Clemson will tell me a lot about this team.

I don't know if Washington can make the contested 3. But, he is hitting the open ones. That isn't bad at all.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

We even got to see more than a few seconds of Okonkwo. Sure, the competition matters, but he showed he could run the floor well and certainly wasn't afraid to mix it up inside at both ends. He's a little herky-jerky, but showed potential. We might be very glad to have him next year.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

What was that strangeness with High and the out of bounds situation? If that got explained by the announcers, I missed it. High looked a little chippy, but I didn't see what might have caused it.

 

[gauchoheel]

Maybe Washington is that good offensively where being a defensive liability can be overcome. He's played a lot of his minutes against lower level competition, but is certainly hitting his shots.

Not sure how much can be taken from this game, but glad we got deep bench minutes in. RJ is continuing to crush it. Let's win at least 2 of the next 3 road games hopefully.

 

[NorCalTarheel]

What was that strangeness with High and the out of bounds situation? If that got explained by the announcers, I missed it. High looked a little chippy, but I didn't see what might have caused it.

The way I saw it was High tried to hand the ball to the player taking it out of bounds. That player wouldn't take it from him and it escalated from there resulting in the warning from the ref. As I posted in another thread, I like Highs, aggression and energy, but could have sprinkled in a little intelligence at that point. The technical came when, I believe on a made basket, High took the ball and tossed it in the direction of that same player. That one looked pretty innocent but because of the warning that had just happened, he got the quick T. It seems like to me High can only play at one speed and, so when the opposing player refused to take the ball from him, he had a tough time just dropping it at his feet and setting up for defense. Just my take, but that's how I saw it...

 

[NorCalTarheel]

Can the Heels overcome an off-night from RJ against an ACC opponent on the road? As good as RJ has been, he’s going to have a couple tough shooting nights and who will step up to overcome that?

I think we are riding RJ's hot streak, and absolutely should be, for as long as it lasts. In the event he goes cold, we still have a pretty good center who has shown, at least in years past, to be a reliable scoring option. We also have Ingram who can play our own brand of bully-ball given the right matchups. I think we have just enough shooters with Ryan, Ingram and Washington to get points when needed.

I think our defense and rebounding are going to take us as far as we go. We can score with anyone in the country!

 

[DSouthr]

CS was not very good so we did what you want to do vs a team not at your level, we took them apart. I absolutely loved that Hubert went so hard to his bench, he went what, 11-12 deep. RJ played the most minutes and he only played 26 and next to him was Ryan at 23mins. Anyone recall me saying so many times that this team I would like to see no one playing over 30 and if up to me I would cap it at 25mins because I wanted guys out there with the fresher legs, this game is an example of why I have been saying that. Loved that guys were having fun for a change out there, basketball should be fun for players, coaches, and fans and this one was.

Best over all game I have seen RJ play period, kid had a double double in points and assists and added 5 steals to it, just out standing, playing his way not just on to NBA draft boards but making his case to be a first rounder even with his small stature. 7 of 13 from the field, 3-6 from three, love the efficiency. Ingram did what Ingram does, rock steady, rock solid, just hits big shots at key moments, plays hard on the boards and is under rated when it comes to being a defender. Bacot was solid, wish they had left him in for that one more board so he would have yet another to add to his high stack of career double doubles. Bacot was 5-6, hit both his free throws and had 9 boards, love the efficiency with him as well but I didn't think he played like he could dominate his opponent, I would really like to see more edge from him. Ryan yet again, not sharp shooting the ball but still was very active and played well in every other aspect.

Our bench, nice to see Konkwo get some run, nice to see him give out biscuits, he is about as deep as I consider our bench and not be Blue Steel (thou he is Blue Steel). Paxon, hate that he took yet another blow to the head, this kid is nearing the stage of maybe needing a helmet. But could have done without those 3 heat checks, his playing time may be about to totally disappear. High is future, High is not present, love his motor and I was not upset with his show of passion in the heat of battle that drew the tech, he was not going to back down, love that actually. But he is so raw offensively and so thin, kid needs 20lbs yesterday, really hope he comes back from the next off season with no less than 15lbs added and some offensive scoring moves.

I love Seth Trimble's game, I screamed for him to play more last season, great to see his PT climbing now. Seth is more a scorer than a jump shooter, that was actually true coming out of high school, we still have not seen his ability to finish way over the rim as much as he can give us. Love to see us work him for ooopps ops he is an un-worldly like above the rim guy, love to see that gone to 2-3 times a game. Withers, been critical of him a lot this season but he has deserved the critical looks, last night for me he played by far his best game for us. I didn't see but for a couple things of him making those bone headed rushing his game mistakes that have plagued him, I was no no great shot on that trey! LOL Let the game come to him a little more than trying to force it and folks we will have a player.

Did I leave anyone out? Oh, Mr he can't shoot cause he got sample size disease? LOL Jalen Washington, I can hear jung now, darn, I knew he would go there! LOL Well I am not, at least not looking for a I told ya so moment, it is not about I told ya so for me, it has only ever been about the fact I truly believe Jalen playing can help us be a more potent team. It is not some agenda with me, it is just the fact no matter what sample size you want to use, Jalen is a killer jump shooter, his shooting efficiency is off the charts and so much of it is jump shooting. Those treys last night but his treys all season have been great looking strokes that don't even touch the rim, he just sizzles the nets. But he is and has been not just jump shooting, he has been getting boards at a very high clip for minutes played. 7 boards in his 16mins, 7-9 from the field, 2-3 from trey for 17pts in 16mins. Up till last night folks were busy telling me how playing Jalen at the 4 was a bad idea, do you still feel that way or do you maybe now see what I have been saying a bit more clearly? No, not I told ya so, all I ask is do you see more of what I have been screaming all season? Kid is a major weapon we have not been using and I hope last night showed Hubert that we need this kid playing solid minutes, not just the few left overs when Bacot sits!

Really looking forward to playing Clemson, they are really good so far so it is going to take a big game from us and it is a true road test vs a quad 1 team, big game. 3 true road games in a row and none of them easy but last night was a great warm up for that!

 

[DSouthr]

I think we are riding RJ's hot streak, and absolutely should be, for as long as it lasts. In the event he goes cold, we still have a pretty good center who has shown, at least in years past, to be a reliable scoring option. We also have Ingram who can play our own brand of bully-ball given the right matchups. I think we have just enough shooters with Ryan, Ingram and Washington to get points when needed.

I think our defense and rebounding are going to take us as far as we go. We can score with anyone in the country!

RJ, since stepping on campus has been a great open look shot maker, he has struggled at times taking the harder shots, the difference this season to the last is how well he is finishing at the basket. If he has a bad shooting night I really believe it will be more his creative in the paint shots would not drop or he starts taking to many highly contested jumpers but his open looks I don't see him missing many and have not since he came to us. Our offense now creates a lot more open looks for RJ than he has been used to when playing beside Caleb.

 

[DSouthr]

I don't know if Washington can make the contested 3. But, he is hitting the open ones. That isn't bad at all.

But Jalen has not been taking well contested jumpers from trey, they have been clean looks not just last night, all season. That is solid shot selection and a really good shooter makes those un-contested shots. His contested jumpers are more the turn around pops, saw one last night, where he uses that 7'5" reach to shoot over his defender, he was known for this before coming to UNC.

 

[DSouthr]

What was that strangeness with High and the out of bounds situation? If that got explained by the announcers, I missed it. High looked a little chippy, but I didn't see what might have caused it.

I think what happened was that High was amped up, handed the ball to the opposing player trying to inbound it rather than tossing it to him was a hit of a in your face move by High, I didn't totally hate it actually. Ref gave him a warning on that and I think maybe High had something to say and that got the tech, heat of battle kind of thing, I actually like the passion. And hey, if you are going to get tagged with a tech then being up 30 is not a bad time to do so. LOL

 

[imajericho]

But Jalen has not been taking well contested jumpers from trey, they have been clean looks not just last night, all season. That is solid shot selection and a really good shooter makes those un-contested shots. His contested jumpers are more the turn around pops, saw one last night, where he uses that 7'5" reach to shoot over his defender, he was known for this before coming to UNC.

I await to see what he can do versus contested jumpers. If he isn't gonna shoot them ever, that's one thing. I don't mind someone who will at least shoot the wide open ones. I do feel last night there wasn't really anyone to contest him on that team, even if they wanted to.

I do not think Washington at the 4 can work versus upper echelon teams that possess an attacking, athletic relative big man though.

His scoring looked good last night tho.

 

[DSouthr]

Oooops, I forgot to mention Cadeau in last nights game, didn't mean to. While he did get a nice little string of points late, the game was well decided by then. For me there is a noticeable change in his play since early early season, he isn't nearly as aggressive as he started off being. He is playing OK but he isn't putting the pressure on defenses like he did early on. He plays with a LOT of flare in his game, free wheeling gun slinging extreme confidence style that infects his team mates. But there has been a toned down version of him for a solid string of games now and I realize that some of that free wheeling style led to TOs but I don't know that toning him down is the best move. I can see him to often thinking rather than playing, as if he has taken a back seat to RJ and the kid is not used to the back seat, think Caleb and RJ for the last 3 seasons and RJ taking a bit of the back seat.

Been meaning to mention this for a while now but never found the right spot to. This has to be something the staff wants our PGs to do but it makes little sense to me. Our PG will come down in half court offense, as soon as he crossed half court spins to the other direction with the ball, most often it is heads right and spins back left, BOTH Cadeau and RJ are doing this constantly and really it looks habitual but I don't see a reason for it, the very same thing can be done with a simple cross over and not have to turn your back to the defense with a spin and back up? Anyone else notice this because it drives me NUTZS! LOL

 

[imajericho]

Oooops, I forgot to mention Cadeau in last nights game, didn't mean to. While he did get a nice little string of points late, the game was well decided by then. For me there is a noticeable change in his play since early early season, he isn't nearly as aggressive as he started off being. He is playing OK but he isn't putting the pressure on defenses like he did early on. He plays with a LOT of flare in his game, free wheeling gun slinging extreme confidence style that infects his team mates. But there has been a toned down version of him for a solid string of games now and I realize that some of that free wheeling style led to TOs but I don't know that toning him down is the best move. I can see him to often thinking rather than playing, as if he has taken a back seat to RJ and the kid is not used to the back seat, think Caleb and RJ for the last 3 seasons and RJ taking a bit of the back seat.

Been meaning to mention this for a while now but never found the right spot to. This has to be something the staff wants our PGs to do but it makes little sense to me. Our PG will come down in half court offense, as soon as he crossed half court spins to the other direction with the ball, most often it is heads right and spins back left, BOTH Cadeau and RJ are doing this constantly and really it looks habitual but I don't see a reason for it, the very same thing can be done with a simple cross over and not have to turn your back to the defense with a spin and back up? Anyone else notice this because it drives me NUTZS! LOL

I actually assumed this was an Eliot Cadeau move that RJ Davis added from him. I have never seen RJ do it before this year or before Cadeau did it in a game multiple times this year. It looks like a very risky move that is gonna end up with an easy strip at some point.

 

[DSouthr]

I await to see what he can do versus contested jumpers. If he isn't gonna shoot them ever, that's one thing. I don't mind someone who will at least shoot the wide open ones. I do feel last night there wasn't really anyone to contest him on that team, even if they wanted to.

I do not think Washington at the 4 can work versus upper echelon teams that possess an attacking, athletic relative big man though.

His scoring looked good last night tho.

Jalen's go to move is his mid range turn around jumper, with his 7'5" reach if he gets his feet set right there are not many defenders that can cause that to be highly contested. I do not believe you will see Jalen taking highly contested treys, why would he when he gets those wide open looks nearly any time he wants? How do you guard that, he isn't putting the ball on the floor so a guard has zero chance of making the shot hard for him. Big man follows him out the ball simple is not likely going to Jalen because we are going to jump the fact that a defensive big man just took himself out of the play. I just don't think you are going to see Caleb Love type shots from Jalen because he does not have to take those, he will get plenty of open looks. That is for me the definition of a stretch 4, he drags a big outside the paint and Bacot has less size to deal with.

 

[DSouthr]

I actually assumed this was an Eliot Cadeau move that RJ Davis added from him. I have never seen RJ do it before this year or before Cadeau did it in a game multiple times this year. It looks like a very risky move that is gonna end up with an easy strip at some point.

I agree, I don't recall RJ doing that until this season but now he does it as much as Cadeau does. It is just one of those things that bug the heck out of me because just a simple cross over, that spin has you turning your back to the defense and that is never a good thing. I agree, I do think it will create a un-needed TO at some point, someone is going to shoot that spin for a easy steal lay up.

 

[dtodd4475]

When you are 33 point favorites it should be a game where everybody eats, and it was. Good job.

RJ has a full bag of vetern tricks, guy is an absolute bucket.

Was hoping Cadeau could get off a little more, just for his comfort level, prime opportunity against the inferior opponent, not so much, but still confident he will find his groove.

Jalen is coming along nicely, at his pace, I can see him excelling later as a Scott Williams type trailer knocking down those top of the key open looks in transition as well.

Sheesh, Wojcik got his jack on every time he touched it. With his dwindling minutes he wanted to get the most of floor time against these fellas I guess.😆

 

[NorCalTarheel]

Thank you! That's spin move just past half court for no particular reason has been driving me nuts. It WILL cost us if they keep doing it.

 

[tarwhiz]

CS was not very good so we did what you want to do vs a team not at your level, we took them apart. I absolutely loved that Hubert went so hard to his bench, he went what, 11-12 deep. RJ played the most minutes and he only played 26 and next to him was Ryan at 23mins. Anyone recall me saying so many times that this team I would like to see no one playing over 30 and if up to me I would cap it at 25mins because I wanted guys out there with the fresher legs, this game is an example of why I have been saying that. Loved that guys were having fun for a change out there, basketball should be fun for players, coaches, and fans and this one was.

Best over all game I have seen RJ play period, kid had a double double in points and assists and added 5 steals to it, just out standing, playing his way not just on to NBA draft boards but making his case to be a first rounder even with his small stature. 7 of 13 from the field, 3-6 from three, love the efficiency. Ingram did what Ingram does, rock steady, rock solid, just hits big shots at key moments, plays hard on the boards and is under rated when it comes to being a defender. Bacot was solid, wish they had left him in for that one more board so he would have yet another to add to his high stack of career double doubles. Bacot was 5-6, hit both his free throws and had 9 boards, love the efficiency with him as well but I didn't think he played like he could dominate his opponent, I would really like to see more edge from him. Ryan yet again, not sharp shooting the ball but still was very active and played well in every other aspect.

Our bench, nice to see Konkwo get some run, nice to see him give out biscuits, he is about as deep as I consider our bench and not be Blue Steel (thou he is Blue Steel). Paxon, hate that he took yet another blow to the head, this kid is nearing the stage of maybe needing a helmet. But could have done without those 3 heat checks, his playing time may be about to totally disappear. High is future, High is not present, love his motor and I was not upset with his show of passion in the heat of battle that drew the tech, he was not going to back down, love that actually. But he is so raw offensively and so thin, kid needs 20lbs yesterday, really hope he comes back from the next off season with no less than 15lbs added and some offensive scoring moves.

I love Seth Trimble's game, I screamed for him to play more last season, great to see his PT climbing now. Seth is more a scorer than a jump shooter, that was actually true coming out of high school, we still have not seen his ability to finish way over the rim as much as he can give us. Love to see us work him for ooopps ops he is an un-worldly like above the rim guy, love to see that gone to 2-3 times a game. Withers, been critical of him a lot this season but he has deserved the critical looks, last night for me he played by far his best game for us. I didn't see but for a couple things of him making those bone headed rushing his game mistakes that have plagued him, I was no no great shot on that trey! LOL Let the game come to him a little more than trying to force it and folks we will have a player.

Did I leave anyone out? Oh, Mr he can't shoot cause he got sample size disease? LOL Jalen Washington, I can hear jung now, darn, I knew he would go there! LOL Well I am not, at least not looking for a I told ya so moment, it is not about I told ya so for me, it has only ever been about the fact I truly believe Jalen playing can help us be a more potent team. It is not some agenda with me, it is just the fact no matter what sample size you want to use, Jalen is a killer jump shooter, his shooting efficiency is off the charts and so much of it is jump shooting. Those treys last night but his treys all season have been great looking strokes that don't even touch the rim, he just sizzles the nets. But he is and has been not just jump shooting, he has been getting boards at a very high clip for minutes played. 7 boards in his 16mins, 7-9 from the field, 2-3 from trey for 17pts in 16mins. Up till last night folks were busy telling me how playing Jalen at the 4 was a bad idea, do you still feel that way or do you maybe now see what I have been saying a bit more clearly? No, not I told ya so, all I ask is do you see more of what I have been screaming all season? Kid is a major weapon we have not been using and I hope last night showed Hubert that we need this kid playing solid minutes, not just the few left overs when Bacot sits!

Really looking forward to playing Clemson, they are really good so far so it is going to take a big game from us and it is a true road test vs a quad 1 team, big game. 3 true road games in a row and none of them easy but last night was a great warm up for that!

Good post David. You won't get a Jalen can't play the 4 spot offensively from me, but let's pump the brakes on him being a regular rotation piece there until he guards some ACC 4's.
Somebody, whether that is JWash, JWith or High playing the 4 and allowing Ingram to play some 3, is essential vs the more athletic teams we play.
Seth is really settling into his role, and I can see better chemistry between Seth and Eliott than I did earlier in the season.

 

[alabamaheel]

Oooops, I forgot to mention Cadeau in last nights game, didn't mean to. While he did get a nice little string of points late, the game was well decided by then. For me there is a noticeable change in his play since early early season, he isn't nearly as aggressive as he started off being. He is playing OK but he isn't putting the pressure on defenses like he did early on. He plays with a LOT of flare in his game, free wheeling gun slinging extreme confidence style that infects his team mates. But there has been a toned down version of him for a solid string of games now and I realize that some of that free wheeling style led to TOs but I don't know that toning him down is the best move. I can see him to often thinking rather than playing, as if he has taken a back seat to RJ and the kid is not used to the back seat, think Caleb and RJ for the last 3 seasons and RJ taking a bit of the back seat.

Been meaning to mention this for a while now but never found the right spot to. This has to be something the staff wants our PGs to do but it makes little sense to me. Our PG will come down in half court offense, as soon as he crossed half court spins to the other direction with the ball, most often it is heads right and spins back left, BOTH Cadeau and RJ are doing this constantly and really it looks habitual but I don't see a reason for it, the very same thing can be done with a simple cross over and not have to turn your back to the defense with a spin and back up? Anyone else notice this because it drives me NUTZS! LOL

lol man you’ve read my sticking mind. That move drives me nuts. It literally has no point. A simple crossover will do the same thing and won’t allow your back turned to the whole court. I’d like to know what the point is and I’m sure someone has a reason but I’d beg to differ.

 

[Heelicious]

The way I saw it was High tried to hand the ball to the player taking it out of bounds. That player wouldn't take it from him and it escalated from there resulting in the warning from the ref. As I posted in another thread, I like Highs, aggression and energy, but could have sprinkled in a little intelligence at that point. The technical came when, I believe on a made basket, High took the ball and tossed it in the direction of that same player. That one looked pretty innocent but because of the warning that had just happened, he got the quick T. It seems like to me High can only play at one speed and, so when the opposing player refused to take the ball from him, he had a tough time just dropping it at his feet and setting up for defense. Just my take, but that's how I saw it...

To me it almost seemed line maybe they knew each other from before or some chippy beef developed on court during the game. Them chirping at each other with such short interaction time on court seem quite weird - High clapping his hands in a taunting way, ball in chest etc. what is that about?

 

[DSouthr]

lol man you’ve read my sticking mind. That move drives me nuts. It literally has no point. A simple crossover will do the same thing and won’t allow your back turned to the whole court. I’d like to know what the point is and I’m sure someone has a reason but I’d beg to differ.

Dang glad I am not the only one that has noticed that but I had not seen it mentioned so far this season, not a big thing really but it could be a TO at a critical time one day so why do it? LOL

 

[Heelicious]

lol man you’ve read my sticking mind. That move drives me nuts. It literally has no point. A simple crossover will do the same thing and won’t allow your back turned to the whole court. I’d like to know what the point is and I’m sure someone has a reason but I’d beg to differ.

Never at any level is it taught for a dribbler to turn his back to defender / defense. What good can come from it. Breakaways waiting to happen. Just dumb. No value, ever.

 

[DSouthr]

To me it almost seemed line maybe they knew each other from before or some chippy beef developed on court during the game. Them chirping at each other with such short interaction time on court seem quite weird - High clapping his hands in a taunting way, ball in chest etc. what is that about?

I get the view that it maybe does not look great but that kid has a little smack in his game, former and current players talked about this in the off season, he will get in your face and he will "talk" to you, lol! I wish Bacot would have more of that honestly. I want a kid with that mindset of getting in your face rather than backing down, to bring that edge. Next step is for his game to catch up with his edge cause you got to back the talk up!

 

[DSouthr]

I await to see what he can do versus contested jumpers. If he isn't gonna shoot them ever, that's one thing. I don't mind someone who will at least shoot the wide open ones. I do feel last night there wasn't really anyone to contest him on that team, even if they wanted to.

I do not think Washington at the 4 can work versus upper echelon teams that possess an attacking, athletic relative big man though.

His scoring looked good last night tho.

Not trying to put words in your mouth but what I think you are saying is that you are concerned with him playing against a 4 that can out power him strength wise, that can body him out of position defensively. And if that is your point, I agree, it is exactly why going in to the season I wanted Withers to start at the 3 rather than Jalen, because Withers is physically stronger and a touch quicker. Matchups should dictate minutes, depends on what we need at any given point. Some games matchup wise it may be smarter to get more time from Withers but in other games Jalen may be the guy that gives us a match up advantage. The last UNC big man we had that jump shot the ball at the level I see Jalen shooting it was...dang, I have to think about that one, he shoots it like Danny Green, so smooth, looks like every shot is going to drop but he is 6'9-10" with that 7'5" reach? I saw the turn around last season but this sweet stroking trey shooting is really impressive, just look how graceful his three ball shot is.

But please don't short sell the other moving point here, this usage of Jalen and Withers is a lot about moving Ingram to the 3 which gives us the instant mismatch. Bring Ryan off the bench, everyone was excited about him as a jump shooter but he has not been a great jump shooter for us, he has been OK, certainly better shooter than Paxon has been for us but I think most would agree that he is not hitting his shots at the clip most expected him to. I would bring him off the bench to back up Ingram and some backing up RJ. Give him starter minutes for sure but I think Ingram at the 3 is a game changer and I think Jalen shoots so well that we go from small to pretty darn big with no drop off and maybe a really solid increase in production. Again, match ups, maybe we play a smallish team that uses 3 or 4 guards, run Ryan with the starters if we can't match the quickness.

 

[imajericho]

Not trying to put words in your mouth but what I think you are saying is that you are concerned with him playing against a 4 that can out power him strength wise, that can body him out of position defensively. And if that is your point, I agree, it is exactly why going in to the season I wanted Withers to start at the 3 rather than Jalen, because Withers is physically stronger and a touch quicker. Matchups should dictate minutes, depends on what we need at any given point. Some games matchup wise it may be smarter to get more time from Withers but in other games Jalen may be the guy that gives us a match up advantage. The last UNC big man we had that jump shot the ball at the level I see Jalen shooting it was...dang, I have to think about that one, he shoots it like Danny Green, so smooth, looks like every shot is going to drop but he is 6'9-10" with that 7'5" reach? I saw the turn around last season but this sweet stroking trey shooting is really impressive, just look how graceful his three ball shot is.

But please don't short sell the other moving point here, this usage of Jalen and Withers is a lot about moving Ingram to the 3 which gives us the instant mismatch. Bring Ryan off the bench, everyone was excited about him as a jump shooter but he has not been a great jump shooter for us, he has been OK, certainly better shooter than Paxon has been for us but I think most would agree that he is not hitting his shots at the clip most expected him to. I would bring him off the bench to back up Ingram and some backing up RJ. Give him starter minutes for sure but I think Ingram at the 3 is a game changer and I think Jalen shoots so well that we go from small to pretty darn big with no drop off and maybe a really solid increase in production. Again, match ups, maybe we play a smallish team that uses 3 or 4 guards, run Ryan with the starters if we can't match the quickness.

I think I prefer Cadeau off the bench. I don't like the two small guards on the court together defensively and Cadeau hasn't gotten it offensively yet. Not to say he won't play into it later, but I like RJ surrounded by potential shooters. He can get them it. It's just can they finish it or not a lot. Against a heavy ball pressure team, I like Cadeau starting with RJ tho.

I do not think Washington can guard anything but the 5 right now against stronger teams atm. That's why I think he causes a mismatch against us defending athletic 4s that can attack the rim and/or make the 3.

 

[tarwhiz]

I think I prefer Cadeau off the bench. I don't like the two small guards on the court together defensively and Cadeau hasn't gotten it offensively yet. Not to say he won't play into it later, but I like RJ surrounded by potential shooters. He can get them it. It's just can they finish it or not a lot. Against a heavy ball pressure team, I like Cadeau starting with RJ tho.

I do not think Washington can guard anything but the 5 right now against stronger teams atm. That's why I think he causes a mismatch against us defending athletic 4s that can attack the rim and/or make the 3.

Imagine JWash trying to guard Matthew Cleveland 😳

 

[DSouthr]

Imagine JWash trying to guard Matthew Cleveland 😳

Imagine Cleveland trying to guard JWash? LOL

Jericho has a good point, I don't love Cadeau and RJ as a defensive back court either but sometimes you have to take the bad for the greater good. I believe we get more positive from Cadeau and RJ in together than negatives.

 

[DSouthr]

I think I prefer Cadeau off the bench. I don't like the two small guards on the court together defensively and Cadeau hasn't gotten it offensively yet. Not to say he won't play into it later, but I like RJ surrounded by potential shooters. He can get them it. It's just can they finish it or not a lot. Against a heavy ball pressure team, I like Cadeau starting with RJ tho.

I do not think Washington can guard anything but the 5 right now against stronger teams atm. That's why I think he causes a mismatch against us defending athletic 4s that can attack the rim and/or make the 3.

You say you don't think Jalen can guard ACC 4s but wouldn't you want to find out for sure? Because for now you "think it" when he actually gets in as a 4 and guards ACC 4s then and only then can you know if he is a net positive or net negative vs ACC 4s, isn't that true? Heck, I don't know either, none of us can either way until we see. I had folks telling me that Jalen was not a solid jump shooter just a couple days ago, doubt they really see it the same way now, as in maybe I had a point? I say give him the chance, I think I know how it will turn out, you think you do, cool, lets see?

Again, my opinion, but Cadeau off the bench is a full stop for me, Cadeau starting allows us to be able to exploit so many options offensively from the opening tip. He has I think hit the wall a bit, he will find his way off of it, they all do. I am way more concerned with Ryan as a starter than I am Cadeau.

 

[imajericho]

You say you don't think Jalen can guard ACC 4s but wouldn't you want to find out for sure? Because for now you "think it" when he actually gets in as a 4 and guards ACC 4s then and only then can you know if he is a net positive or net negative vs ACC 4s, isn't that true? Heck, I don't know either, none of us can either way until we see. I had folks telling me that Jalen was not a solid jump shooter just a couple days ago, doubt they really see it the same way now, as in maybe I had a point? I say give him the chance, I think I know how it will turn out, you think you do, cool, lets see?

Again, my opinion, but Cadeau off the bench is a full stop for me, Cadeau starting allows us to be able to exploit so many options offensively from the opening tip. He has I think hit the wall a bit, he will find his way off of it, they all do. I am way more concerned with Ryan as a starter than I am Cadeau.

I don't mind them trying it. I just don't think it's gonna pan out.

 

[gauchoheel]

The

You say you don't think Jalen can guard ACC 4s but wouldn't you want to find out for sure? Because for now you "think it" when he actually gets in as a 4 and guards ACC 4s then and only then can you know if he is a net positive or net negative vs ACC 4s, isn't that true? Heck, I don't know either, none of us can either way until we see. I had folks telling me that Jalen was not a solid jump shooter just a couple days ago, doubt they really see it the same way now, as in maybe I had a point? I say give him the chance, I think I know how it will turn out, you think you do, cool, lets see?

Again, my opinion, but Cadeau off the bench is a full stop for me, Cadeau starting allows us to be able to exploit so many options offensively from the opening tip. He has I think hit the wall a bit, he will find his way off of it, they all do. I am way more concerned with Ryan as a starter than I am Cadeau.

The coaches have surely seen Washington try to guard Ingram/Withers a lot in practice. I imagine the results of those matchups could be dictating the thinking.

I think Washington could at least work there against certain teams. He'd be terrible against Tenn (JJJ or Knecht at 4) or UConn (Karaban is a movement shooter) but he could've guarded Thierro on UK, inside post guys like Jaylen Gardner when he was at UVA, or non-scoring threats. Given how good Wash's offense has been I think it's worth situational minutes there unless Withers can clean up his offensive game.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Oooops, I forgot to mention Cadeau in last nights game, didn't mean to. While he did get a nice little string of points late, the game was well decided by then. For me there is a noticeable change in his play since early early season, he isn't nearly as aggressive as he started off being. He is playing OK but he isn't putting the pressure on defenses like he did early on. He plays with a LOT of flare in his game, free wheeling gun slinging extreme confidence style that infects his team mates. But there has been a toned down version of him for a solid string of games now and I realize that some of that free wheeling style led to TOs but I don't know that toning him down is the best move. I can see him to often thinking rather than playing, as if he has taken a back seat to RJ and the kid is not used to the back seat, think Caleb and RJ for the last 3 seasons and RJ taking a bit of the back seat.

Been meaning to mention this for a while now but never found the right spot to. This has to be something the staff wants our PGs to do but it makes little sense to me. Our PG will come down in half court offense, as soon as he crossed half court spins to the other direction with the ball, most often it is heads right and spins back left, BOTH Cadeau and RJ are doing this constantly and really it looks habitual but I don't see a reason for it, the very same thing can be done with a simple cross over and not have to turn your back to the defense with a spin and back up? Anyone else notice this because it drives me NUTZS! LOL

One fun surprise. If someone had told me our PG was going to match Kendall Marshall with a 20 point 10 assist double double, I wouldn't have thought they were talking about RJ.

I don't expect that to happen again because we'll be facing tougher competition, but it was lots of fun to see.

Right now, Cadeau looks like a very good freshman PG but not OAD and not yet the generational talent some expected. Not ruling it out, though.

I still think the comparison of Elliot with Marcus holds up. Not that they are similar players but that they are both lucky to have had a competent sidekick (Dex and RJ) for good chunks of their freshman years. It took Marcus more than half his frosh year to turn the corner. I expect Elliot to do the same sometime in the next month against a steady diet of ACC competition.

 

[DSouthr]

The

The coaches have surely seen Washington try to guard Ingram/Withers a lot in practice. I imagine the results of those matchups could be dictating the thinking.

I think Washington could at least work there against certain teams. He'd be terrible against Tenn (JJJ or Knecht at 4) or UConn (Karaban is a movement shooter) but he could've guarded Thierro on UK, inside post guys like Jaylen Gardner when he was at UVA, or non-scoring threats. Given how good Wash's offense has been I think it's worth situational minutes there unless Withers can clean up his offensive game.

Hubert in his post game PC shared they had just begun to work Jalen at the 4 in practice and seems excited to have Jalen's length in there beside Bacot. Just starting to work him at the 4 in practice now tells us why his time has been behind Bacot, if you don't practice at the 4 you don't play the 4.

 

[tcb22]

This has been a fun and one of the best threads to read--just good discussion about basketball and our team with no name calling, personal attacks, etc. Thank all of the posters!

 

[DSouthr]

This has been a fun and one of the best threads to read--just good discussion about basketball and our team with no name calling, personal attacks, etc. Thank all of the posters!

Yes it has been!

What I so enjoy is that I have not agreed and expressed my disagreement to multiple posters in this thread but my disagreement I feel has been respectful and the replies to my disagreement have been very respectful and that is so cool! Just because you may disagree with another's opinion does not mean you are attacking them, it just means you have a different opinion, EVERYONE HAS A RIGHT TO THEIR OWN OPINION AND TO EXPRESS IT AS LONG AS IT IS RESPECTFUL THEY SHOULD NOT BE ATTACKED FOR IT.

 

[DSouthr]

One fun surprise. If someone had told me our PG was going to match Kendall Marshall with a 20 point 10 assist double double, I wouldn't have thought they were talking about RJ.

I don't expect that to happen again because we'll be facing tougher competition, but it was lots of fun to see.

Right now, Cadeau looks like a very good freshman PG but not OAD and not yet the generational talent some expected. Not ruling it out, though.

I still think the comparison of Elliot with Marcus holds up. Not that they are similar players but that they are both lucky to have had a competent sidekick (Dex and RJ) for good chunks of their freshman years. It took Marcus more than half his frosh year to turn the corner. I expect Elliot to do the same sometime in the next month against a steady diet of ACC competition.

Marcus LOL, I clearly recall about this very time of the season in Marcus's freshman season asking seriously what Roy saw in this kid that had him as a starter! Then we go in to conference play and I saw why! LOL

 

[DSouthr]

Going in to this season, being totally honest, I was on guard to be very critical of Hubert because I felt that Hubert had a worse season as a coach than the players had on the court. I honestly felt, still do, that far to much of last season's problem were due to decisions Hubert made, it started to remind me of Calipari like coaching. Yeah, I had nearly given up all hope for him as a coach.

But I watched who he added this off season from the portal, when Ingram committed I was ecstatic, I was very happy with his decisions. We then saw that Hubert was committed to getting us back to pushing the ball, using tempo (which means he was going to use his bench deep), and he got us a great talented PG that was not a combo (2 guard wanting to play the point)! It became easier for me to give Hubert another chance, more time to get the players he needs to fit his approach. Now of course I still disagree on a few decisions, disagreed with some of Roy's as well, but I feel like now Hubert has developed a really long way from last season. His decisions so far while not exactly what I want are solid so far, so much so for me that he is about to step back in to the "he is a keeper" in my view, really glad for that! .

 

[notashelbyfan]

Going in to this season, being totally honest, I was on guard to be very critical of Hubert because I felt that Hubert had a worse season as a coach than the players had on the court. I honestly felt, still do, that far to much of last season's problem were due to decisions Hubert made, it started to remind me of Calipari like coaching. Yeah, I had nearly given up all hope for him as a coach.

But I watched who he added this off season from the portal, when Ingram committed I was ecstatic, I was very happy with his decisions. We then saw that Hubert was committed to getting us back to pushing the ball, using tempo (which means he was going to use his bench deep), and he got us a great talented PG that was not a combo (2 guard wanting to play the point)! It became easier for me to give Hubert another chance, more time to get the players he needs to fit his approach. Now of course I still disagree on a few decisions, disagreed with some of Roy's as well, but I feel like now Hubert has developed a really long way from last season. His decisions so far while not exactly what I want are solid so far, so much so for me that he is about to step back in to the "he is a keeper" in my view, really glad for that! .

I'm still not sold on him but maybe there's hope. He has this year shown some rhyme to his reason.